Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Jan 7, 2022 18:30:01 GMT -5
This just got released on the official Warrior Cats website: warriorcats.com/content/article/does-frecklewish-really-belong-in-the-dark-forestHere is also the statement made by the story team to confirm that this decision was not made by mistake but intentional after much debate over it during the last couple of months: "As you know, the Warriors Family Tree was updated with the Dark Forest section in November 2021. We here at Warriors HQ can see from various videos, forum chats and social media posts, that the placement of Frecklewish in this section is a topic of debate. To show that the opinions of our fans are very important to us, we would like to address this issue and have asked the Story Team to share details about why this decision was made. We would also like to confirm that the website team, Story Team and authors are very much aligned and regularly communicate about such decisions." Edit: My own personal opinion on this topic is that Frecklewish now being officially confirmed to be in the Dark Forest should mean Oakstar and Ravenwing deserve to be there as well in regards to this matter. Ravenwing found out about the kits true father and had a vision that he interpreted in a way that meant the AppleMaple kits were dangerous which he told Oakstar. That prompted Oakstar to exile them along with their mother thus sending them away from the safety of their birth Clan. If these two cats had not done so then Mapleshade would not have panicked while escaping the TC territory when taking them to Appledusk by trying to cross the flooding river. Thus Frecklewish would not have even been in the situation to see them swim for their lives in it. I have a feeling Frecklewish might show up with Mapleshade in ASC. Although I kind of doubt she would be a villain. Perhaps it could be more of a scenario where Mapleshade tries to possess someone and Frecklewish wants to stop her or something like that.
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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Jan 7, 2022 18:37:18 GMT -5
Hey, at least they acknowledged it. I wonder if Frecklewish will be a villain in A Starless Clan.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 7, 2022 18:42:53 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm just glad they made an article on this at all. At the same time though, I still can't help bit feel like this article is being kinda unfair? I don't know, according to GC, Frecklewish was noted to have had "sad, haunted" eyes, so take that as you will, I guess.
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Post by rabbit on Jan 7, 2022 19:08:11 GMT -5
I wonder if she will play a role in a starless clan? I really don’t see anything canon until it is actually written into the story.
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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Jan 7, 2022 19:11:35 GMT -5
This series really needs a clear list of reasons to be sent to the Dark Forest. I don't think breaking one rule in the code gets you sent to the Dark Forest, protagonists break that rule every. Single. Arc. Clear Sky killed multiple cats and is in StarClan, he is without a doubt worse than Frecklewish. Cats like Tigerstar the first and Brokenstar are cats that deserve the Dark Forest, cats like Frecklewish, on the other hand, weren't the best, but don't exactly deserve the Dark Forest.
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Post by Aqua on Jan 7, 2022 19:18:25 GMT -5
No. The only real crime she's done was hurt Mapleshade and slashed her face. But that's only because she acted out of grief, because ya know, Mapleshade was the one who used her in the first place.
Honestly, being in the Dark Forest is a bit much for her. I'd say the in-between realm that the spirit cats wander around is the best for her. I can't remember the name of it.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 7, 2022 19:20:06 GMT -5
This series really needs a clear list of reasons to be sent to the Dark Forest. I don't think breaking one rule in the code gets you sent to the Dark Forest, protagonists break that rule every. Single. Arc. Clear Sky killed multiple cats and is in StarClan, he is without a doubt worse than Frecklewish. Cats like Tigerstar the first and Brokenstar are cats that deserve the Dark Forest, cats like Frecklewish, on the other hand, weren't the best, but don't exactly deserve the Dark Forest. Not too mention blackstar, Leopardstar, Russetfur, Needletail, Yellowfang, Bluestar, Leafpool. and Dustpelt and several others didn’t want to take in Daisy and her Kits, and technically by proxy, that could be construed as negligence of a kits safety by kicking her out back into the wild, soooooo there’s been plenty of incidences of cats doing horrible things, and breaking the code, but not being condemned. But apparently Frecklewish is worthy of eternal damnation because of her one falling out with a code, that many have broken but not been punished for, which makes absolutely zero sense and is completely unfair. And if slimebags like Clear Sky are deserving of entry, then Frecklewish is too.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jan 7, 2022 19:20:11 GMT -5
I'd say the in-between realm that the spirit cats wander around is the best for her. I can't remember the name of it. That's because it was never given a name.
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Post by *•.¸♡𝘥𝘢𝘸𝘯𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘦♡¸.•* on Jan 7, 2022 19:23:36 GMT -5
This series really needs a clear list of reasons to be sent to the Dark Forest. I don't think breaking one rule in the code gets you sent to the Dark Forest, protagonists break that rule every. Single. Arc. Clear Sky killed multiple cats and is in StarClan, he is without a doubt worse than Frecklewish. Cats like Tigerstar the first and Brokenstar are cats that deserve the Dark Forest, cats like Frecklewish, on the other hand, weren't the best, but don't exactly deserve the Dark Forest. Not too mention blackstar, Leopardstar, Russetfur, Needletail, Yellowfang, Bluestar, Leafpool, and Dustpelt and several others didn’t want to take in Daisy and her Kits, and technically by proxy, that could construed as negligence of a kits safety by kicking her out back into the wild, soooooo there’s been plenty of incidences of cats doing horrible things, and breaking the code, but not being condemned. But apparently Frecklewish is worthy of eternal damnation because of her one falling out with a code, that many have broken but not been punished for, makes absolutely zero sense and is completely unfair. And if slimebags like Clear Sky are deserving of entry, then Frecklewish is too. 100% agreed. If Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest, then WHY is Oakstar in StarClan? Leopardstar literally let cats die because of their heritage, asking her deputy to kill apprentices and she got into StarClan. If that's not worse than Frecklewish than I don't know.
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𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩
uh.. I really like sorreltail
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Post by 𝔖𝔬𝔯𝔯𝔢𝔩 on Jan 7, 2022 19:31:40 GMT -5
Oh wow, I never expected them to make an article on this
Really.. interesting view on the whole situation..
So many other cats in StarClan have arguably MORE reason to be in the dark forest than her..
I don’t understand why this was suddenly decided anyway. Is she going to play a part in ASC? Potentially not?
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Post by MadameDelune on Jan 7, 2022 19:58:24 GMT -5
Thank god. This is such a based article **** Frecklewish. Warrior cats Twitter eat your heart out.
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Post by rabbit on Jan 7, 2022 20:02:30 GMT -5
I really don’t care where Frecklewish ends up. But I have to say the afterlife in Warriors is pretty inconsistent when you compare her to Juniperclaw or Ashfur. I can’t wait for the incoming massive amount of salt on twitter and youtube. lol
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on Jan 7, 2022 20:03:06 GMT -5
God I really hope they put someone else in the dark forest out of nowhere next to see what happens then too
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Post by Snowfire on Jan 7, 2022 21:21:28 GMT -5
This is just a theory, but I’m starting to think that she may be someone who’s trying to stop Mapleshade before or while she possesses another cat’s body, I’m not too sure about what her intentions would be but I could see this happening if Frecklewish still exists.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 7, 2022 21:40:17 GMT -5
The article kind of leans into the idea that if Frecklewish HAD helped, then she'd have made a difference and that this is essentially driven by pure negligence for the kits' lives rather than any practical concern. Assuming this is true, then the reasoning for her being in the Dark Forest does make sense. What this article does is clarify INTENT and make it clear that while Mapleshade is often biased and has a distorted point of view, in this case she happened to be right.
Now, one can argue this is a character assassination of Frecklewish, but honestly I never cared much for her anyway and the argument does make sense to me.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jan 7, 2022 22:25:30 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2022 22:27:31 GMT -5
i think frecklewish would belong in the df it it weren’t for the fact that every other character on the same moral ground as her (and some of them worse) weren’t in starclan. i don’t really care about frecklewish but it’s ridiculous to only throw some kinda bad characters in instead of just establishing a limit to how bad a character can be to still get into starclan
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Post by Cheetahstar on Jan 7, 2022 23:12:30 GMT -5
This implies she saw Larchkit on the branch and still did nothing
and in that case
yeah
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Post by Cheetahstar on Jan 7, 2022 23:54:58 GMT -5
wait its worse than i thought this implies
she watched THE WHOLE THING
like she enjoyed it
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 8, 2022 0:08:54 GMT -5
So from what I’ve gleaned from this article, that is incredibly biased and grasping at straws to fabricate incidents that there’s no proof of occurring in canon outside of Frecklewish Witnessing Mapleshade fall into the River from Nettlepaw. And not going to start a debate on whether or not Frecklewish’s actions were codebreaking by negligence of not helping the kits. It would seem that by commiting one act of codebreaking automatically gets you “Pegged” for the Dark Forest, and there being no clear instructions/rules on how many “Good Deeds” one must fulfill in order to get their name removed, so seems if one happens to foul-up on the odd chance, and have the very unfortunate case of dying immediately after without being able to atone for that singular transgression, then all hope is lost, which makes me question why many others haven’t gone to Forest according to this logic. If this being the case, then my only response if that that is incredibly egregious, Appalling, deplorable , atrocious and every other comparable synonym under the sun, and tragically F****d up. There’s no so describing or summarizing my utter disgust and just how insulting, and depreciating and disparaging and disrespectful that is to just about anyone’s interpretation of the afterlife(if you believe in one that is). I know there’s plenty of different religious/cultural/philosophical etc interpretations of the afterlife and what happens to ones soul when they die, and there’s loads of varying beliefs on the subject, and I’m not claiming to be fully versed on all of them. But pretty sure I can guarantee there’s none out there that precarious and flimsy and just Downright ridiculous in it’s definition or teachings etc(though feel free to correct me if you know of one). Holy mackerel that article is flaming trash, and rubs me in every wrong direction. I’m starting to think the Story team are morally bankrupt, and are projecting personal opinions and bias into their writing decisions. getting nauseated after that one.
That was a long rant. But was something that I needed to get out of my system.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jan 8, 2022 0:16:58 GMT -5
So from what I’ve gleaned from this article, that is incredibly biased and grasping at straws to fabricate incidents that there’s no proof of occurring in canon outside of Frecklewish Witnessing Mapleshade fall into the River from Nettlepaw. And not going to start a debate on whether or not Frecklewish’s actions were codebreaking by negligence of not helping the kits. It would seem that by commuting one act of codebreaking automatically gets you “Pegged” for the Dark Forest, and there being no clear instructions/rules on how many “Good Deeds” one must fulfill in order to get their name removed, so seems if one happens to foul-up on the odd chance, and have the very unfortunate case of dying immediately after without being able to atone for that singular transgression, then all hope is lost, which makes me question why many others haven’t gone to Forest according to this logic. If this being the case, then my only response if that that is incredibly egregious, Appalling, deplorable , atrocious and every other comparable synonym under the sun, and tragically F****d up. There’s no so describing or summarizing my utter disgust and just how insulting, and depreciating and disparaging that is to just about anyone’s interpretation of the afterlife(if you believe in one that is). I know there’s plenty of different religious/cultural/philosophical etc interpretations of the afterlife and what happens to ones soul when they die, and there’s loads of varying beliefs on the subject, and I’m not claiming to be fully versed on all of them. But pretty sure I can guarantee there’s none out there that precarious and flimsy and just Downright ridiculous in it’s definition or teachings etc(though feel free to correct me if you know of one). Holy mackerel that article is flaming trash, and rubs me in every wrong direction. I’m getting nauseated after that one. That was a long rant. But was something that I needed to get out of my system. You're saying there's no proof in the book, and you're right, there's not. But in theory, if the article holds true, then that's the proof, no? The only issue with debating Frecklewish is our lack of window into her intent, but if we take what the article says as true, then there you have, there's your window and your proof. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of views of the afterlife which do in fact apply this kind of logic where you should live each moment like it's your last, because if it does happen to be your last, you don't want to be caught at a bad time.
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Post by Cheetahstar on Jan 8, 2022 0:35:10 GMT -5
CloudstormI mean from what I got from the article, it implies that she was watching the kits down, and possibly enjoyed it? idk if im just making a strech but thats whaat I got fro mthe article and if that is correct that is df worthy to be fair i did like the idea of her in there for story angles (like the opposite of ashfur. didnt deserve it but got it vs did deserve it and didnt) so once again a bit of bias there
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Post by Alexisawe on Jan 8, 2022 1:21:55 GMT -5
As someone who loves Mapleshade, I don't believe Frecklewish should've gone to the DF. Like many others have stated, there are plenty of other characters who got into StarClan that did much worse than Frecklewish did. However, I don't think it's entirely unbelievable that Frecklewish went to the DF. From what's been established in SqH and TBC, StarClan judges cats with a trial that includes around 6 cats. And the majority of the cats for Squilf's and Leaf's trial had direct experiences with the code they broke, which makes nearly all of them biased. Ashfur is 'living' proof that StarClan can make mistakes when judging a cat. Keeping this in mind, Frecklewish could've had a trial where a LOT of the judges were biased against her. For all we know, she could've gotten judges who had directly made the rule about never neglecting a kit in need, or judges who had similar experiences to Mapleshade, or even a former queen who had felt very strongly about cats who treated kits badly. Also, many of the cats people use as examples for cats who did worse things were in high ranks. Mudclaw was a deputy. Oakstar was a leader. So were Leopardstar, Onestar, Blackstar, and Skystar. I believe that StarClan has extreme favoritism towards leaders as long as those leaders don't directly and maliciously betray their own Clan like Tigerstar and Brokenstar, who murdered and attempted to murder their leader for no reason other than their ambition. Of course, this doesn't mean that there aren't other cats who aren't in a high rank that get favoritism, but out of all the cats in StarClan who've done flat-out awful things, the main ones are ones who are leaders, deputies, medicine cats, or cats who've had high-ranking cats defend them. (one example being Yellowfang, a medicine cat, defending Ashfur.) This is all just my personal opinion though, so take it with a grain of salt. It's completely fine if you don't agree with me.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Jan 8, 2022 3:08:17 GMT -5
You're saying there's no proof in the book, and you're right, there's not. But in theory, if the article holds true, then that's the proof, no? The only issue with debating Frecklewish is our lack of window into her intent, but if we take what the article says as true, then there you have, there's your window and your proof. This is kind of my problem. If a random fan wrote the exact same reasoning, I would be able to say there's no proof in the books of Frecklewish being that evil. Thing is... the website is a canon source, so now we have an "objective" read on a situation that was originally meant to be ambiguous. The editors saying "yeah, this is definitely what happened" is something I don't like because it removes the ability for readers to have their own interpretation of the text and Mapleshade's reliability. This is why I don't like Word of God on principle. I'm not going to get too worked up over it though. I don't care enough about these characters to do so.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jan 8, 2022 3:53:34 GMT -5
CloudstormI mean from what I got from the article, it implies that she was watching the kits down, and possibly enjoyed it? idk if im just making a strech but thats whaat I got fro mthe article and if that is correct that is df worthy to be fair i did like the idea of her in there for story angles (like the opposite of ashfur. didnt deserve it but got it vs did deserve it and didnt) so once again a bit of bias there she’s also described as stiffening in shock, and responding to Mapleshade in a raspy voice, that could be indicative of becoming emotional, teary-eyes and regretting their deaths, so I would say she never truly intended or wanted the kits to die, and that the nasty things she said about them were out of grief in the height of the moment. And the article rides heavily on that she didn’t jump into the River, and very potentially risk herself drowning trying to save them as justification for damnation, which even if the action of not helping them, when there was plenty of other involved at the time lending help is considered breaking the code from negligence to a kits safety, it’s still 1 wrongdoing or slip-up and isn’t indicative that she was a rotten, contemptuous or malicious person/cat as a whole and is morally unjust to condemn someone over 1 mistake. Thats comparable to the department of transportation revoking your driver’s license indefinitely over 1 Traffic infraction or DUI charge, it’s needlessly harsh and cruel, and disparaging to deem ones moral constitution and soul as purely malignant from a singular violation of conduct. so unless they want to come out and say she was a malicious criminal the entirety of her life and a delinquent that enjoyed harming people in general like a psychopath, then no she shouldn’t be in The Dark Forest.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jan 8, 2022 4:22:42 GMT -5
Nope, still not considering it as canon.
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Post by 𝐛𝐥𝟒𝐜𝐤𝐬𝐨𝐥 on Jan 8, 2022 4:28:31 GMT -5
And they did put Russetfur in StarClan?😂
Seriously, this article is so extremely biased and there is no proof in the books about these events. Russetfur deliberately watched Berrykit suffer in a fox trap, while just sitting beside him and laughing. But no, when a mentally unstable cat doesn't want to drown to help saving Mapleshade and her kits while a RiverClan patrol is on the other side already going to help, it's Dark Forest time?
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