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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 14, 2021 10:33:22 GMT -5
If they do send her there I want them to go all the way with it and make her evil since apparently "the longer you're in the forest, the more evil you become" The reasoning is all muddled to me, personally. Like I think she could have been sent there but in comparison to cats who've done more it feels slightly unbelievable. But if they're gonna make her a villain then do it. Have her and Maple fight, make her evil. (Besides recently I've seen a lot of people wanting more female villains and with a mixed bag of backstory on how she got there, I think people very well could have a right to sympathize to an extent. I could see plenty of anti-Maple's taking her side and I think it could make for good Fandom discourse, like this exact thread.) The problem is I doubt she'd be alive anymore. I really doubt Mapleshade would leave her there alive after everything
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Transgender
🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle)
I didn't get thunder yet but the one thing I wonder abt has been spoiled so should I still buy?
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Post by 🌌dapple🌙 (formerly freckle) on Dec 14, 2021 10:51:14 GMT -5
If they do send her there I want them to go all the way with it and make her evil since apparently "the longer you're in the forest, the more evil you become" The reasoning is all muddled to me, personally. Like I think she could have been sent there but in comparison to cats who've done more it feels slightly unbelievable. But if they're gonna make her a villain then do it. Have her and Maple fight, make her evil. (Besides recently I've seen a lot of people wanting more female villains and with a mixed bag of backstory on how she got there, I think people very well could have a right to sympathize to an extent. I could see plenty of anti-Maple's taking her side and I think it could make for good Fandom discourse, like this exact thread.) The problem is I doubt she'd be alive anymore. I really doubt Mapleshade would leave her there alive after everything Yeah because the moment Mapleshade finds out she's there.... yeah that ain't gonna go well at all-
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Dec 14, 2021 10:58:59 GMT -5
You think maybe Frecklewish disguised herself as another cat to try and hide from Mapleshade?
(I actually came up with a guess as to why Oakstar is in StarClan. Maybe StarClan let Frecklewish choose between sending her or her father to the DF, and she decided to send herself because she wanted her father to see his son again. Idk I'm just saying stuff at this point, there really is no good reason why Frecklewish is in the DF and Oakstar is not, the two committed the same crime)
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 14, 2021 11:51:38 GMT -5
You think maybe Frecklewish disguised herself as another cat to try and hide from Mapleshade? (I actually came up with a guess as to why Oakstar is in StarClan. Maybe StarClan let Frecklewish choose between sending her or her father to the DF, and she decided to send herself because she wanted her father to see his son again. Idk I'm just saying stuff at this point, there really is no good reason why Frecklewish is in the DF and Oakstar is not, the two committed the same crime) The reason is the same reason that Blackstar is in Starclan and Clawface isn't. Oakstar actually survived for a long time and got to live a long life wherein he presumably did better things than MV. Frecklewish on the other hand died immediately thereafter, and had no chance to change her life.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Dec 14, 2021 11:57:30 GMT -5
You think maybe Frecklewish disguised herself as another cat to try and hide from Mapleshade? (I actually came up with a guess as to why Oakstar is in StarClan. Maybe StarClan let Frecklewish choose between sending her or her father to the DF, and she decided to send herself because she wanted her father to see his son again. Idk I'm just saying stuff at this point, there really is no good reason why Frecklewish is in the DF and Oakstar is not, the two committed the same crime) The reason is the same reason that Blackstar is in Starclan and Clawface isn't. Oakstar actually survived for a long time and got to live a long life wherein he presumably did better things than MV. Frecklewish on the other hand died immediately thereafter, and had no chance to change her life. Oh that's probably it! Still seems a bit unfair, but I guess that's just how StC rolls
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Post by Aqua on Dec 14, 2021 11:57:40 GMT -5
You think maybe Frecklewish disguised herself as another cat to try and hide from Mapleshade? (I actually came up with a guess as to why Oakstar is in StarClan. Maybe StarClan let Frecklewish choose between sending her or her father to the DF, and she decided to send herself because she wanted her father to see his son again. Idk I'm just saying stuff at this point, there really is no good reason why Frecklewish is in the DF and Oakstar is not, the two committed the same crime) The reason is the same reason that Blackstar is in Starclan and Clawface isn't. Oakstar actually survived for a long time and got to live a long life wherein he presumably did better things than MV. Frecklewish on the other hand died immediately thereafter, and had no chance to change her life. That's the sad part. Frecklewish was wrong, but she really didn't deserve to die a gruesome death, especially after all she went through because of Mapleshade. And even if she lived, she'd live blind, remembering the cat who scarred her forever.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Dec 14, 2021 12:01:44 GMT -5
The reason is the same reason that Blackstar is in Starclan and Clawface isn't. Oakstar actually survived for a long time and got to live a long life wherein he presumably did better things than MV. Frecklewish on the other hand died immediately thereafter, and had no chance to change her life. That's the sad part. Frecklewish was wrong, but she really didn't deserve to die a gruesome death, especially after all she went through because of Mapleshade. And even if she lived, she'd live blind, remembering the cat who scarred her forever. Honestly I would have really loved it if she lived and we got a novella on her. There are so many interesting things they could have shown us after Mapleshade attacked her, such as how she began to cope after being blinded by the cats she hates the most. Yet I also would like to see her show more remorse for accidentally taking part in the deaths of Mapleshade's kits.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Dec 14, 2021 12:31:04 GMT -5
I hate it. I read mapleshades vengence a couple times and well frecklewish's actions weren't good they were of someone who was lied to. mapleshade used frecklewishes DEAD brother, who her actual mate killed alongside a appretiace its literally said multiple times in the book that she didnt know the drowned, HECK the frecklewish watching the kits drown was a complete Assumpition on mapleshades end. In fact its implied by nettlepaw Frecklewish left just after she noticed the riverclan patrol which could have been very shortly after They fell in. Frecklewish couldnt swim much less in a FLOODED river, if she dove in after them she could have risked the kits lives even more and possibly risk herself as well. she took what looked to her the best chance of the kits survival and sadly it did not end up as she thought it would. She seemed to actually think that riverclan patrol could help Mapleshade more than she could even try, she was so sure she left. SHE DID NOT STICK AROUND TO WATCH THEM DIE, even then she couldn't call for help flooded rivers are LOUD. We only saw her through mapleshades heavily flawed perspective The best view we have of frecklewish's character is before the truth is out. She's kind and up to helping mapleshade with the kits heck mapleshade lets her watch the birth. She was emotionlly unwell when she asked the question, and mapleshade used that to her advantage she may have never verbally said it but she never denyed it she played as if that was the truth and took advantage of this women, she says she can't like but then lies right afterwards There are cats who have done so much more Frecklewish is among the Cats who were unfairly judged they let her ****ING father in who did way worse, she got her punishment from her brutal death. She even gave mapleshade a multiple warnings Her only crime is being mean one time, and yes attacking mapleshade was a bad move BUT THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH WORSE THAT HASN'T BEEN PUNISHED, what about characters who trained the kits before six moons i don't see flintfang in the dark forest i don't see blackfoot getting any problems from starclan, or what about the cats actually responseble such as y'know DARKSTAR OR OAKSTAR. I don't believe she should be in the dark forest nor do i believe she's completely innocent. SHes a flawed person but not enough to be condeemed to eternal suffering when Oakstar is prancing around starclan Exactly this. We don't even know if she regretted it or not, so as far as fans are concerned, it's pure fanservice to satisfy the Mapleshade fans. And if we're going to use the book as evidence as to why she deserves dark forest, we have to remember that she literally told Mapleshade right in the face she never meant for them to die, and when Mapleshade further insults her, Frecklewish never insults the kits- only Mapleshade, wishing she was dead, and never actually attacking the kits. That must be saying something.
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Post by Aqua on Dec 14, 2021 13:05:01 GMT -5
That's the sad part. Frecklewish was wrong, but she really didn't deserve to die a gruesome death, especially after all she went through because of Mapleshade. And even if she lived, she'd live blind, remembering the cat who scarred her forever. Honestly I would have really loved it if she lived and we got a novella on her. There are so many interesting things they could have shown us after Mapleshade attacked her, such as how she began to cope after being blinded by the cats she hates the most. Yet I also would like to see her show more remorse for accidentally taking part in the deaths of Mapleshade's kits. A Frecklewish novella would've been nice. I wouldn't mind seeing the pain of Mapleshade's truth through her eyes, but I'm worried they'd make her a malicious character and have her purposely watch the kits drown :/ So maybe we're better off without one, cause ya know, there's lots of bias in this series (cough Kate thinking Bramblestar is evil and actually making him cruel)
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Dec 14, 2021 13:09:42 GMT -5
Honestly I would have really loved it if she lived and we got a novella on her. There are so many interesting things they could have shown us after Mapleshade attacked her, such as how she began to cope after being blinded by the cats she hates the most. Yet I also would like to see her show more remorse for accidentally taking part in the deaths of Mapleshade's kits. A Frecklewish novella would've been nice. I wouldn't mind seeing the pain of Mapleshade's truth through her eyes, but I'm worried they'd make her a malicious character and have her purposely watch the kits drown :/ So maybe we're better off without one, cause ya know, there's lots of bias in this series (cough Kate thinking Bramblestar is evil and actually making him cruel) True, maybe just a short page or two on her thoughts. I just think it be nice to have some things cleared up. I really want a book with short stories collections of all the DF cats! (Also sad thing on Bramblestar, hopefully he's better in ASC because he actually wasn't too bad in TBC. I quite liked him actually.)
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Post by Aqua on Dec 14, 2021 14:48:14 GMT -5
A Frecklewish novella would've been nice. I wouldn't mind seeing the pain of Mapleshade's truth through her eyes, but I'm worried they'd make her a malicious character and have her purposely watch the kits drown :/ So maybe we're better off without one, cause ya know, there's lots of bias in this series (cough Kate thinking Bramblestar is evil and actually making him cruel) True, maybe just a short page or two on her thoughts. I just think it be nice to have some things cleared up. I really want a book with short stories collections of all the DF cats! (Also sad thing on Bramblestar, hopefully he's better in ASC because he actually wasn't too bad in TBC. I quite liked him actually.) The Erins used to do short roleplays with their characters, with Leafpool and Spottedleaf. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did small things like that now and then.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Dec 14, 2021 20:18:56 GMT -5
Oh man. reading through all this resurgence of Frecklewish Discussion makes me all the more thankful the actual scales of judgement aren’t so precariously balanced. I agree that Oakstar being allowed to live presumably a long enough time to see the error of his decision and express remorse and repentance for it being a validated reason (by the Editing teams anyway, it’s anyone’s guess really) for him to be in Starclan. But even if he would of died sooner rather then later, his nor Frecklewish’s transgressions are worthy of eternal damnation. reprimanding or punishment? Sure. condemned to the misery and anguish of hell for eternity? No. This whole hell v heaven thing in warriors just proves why there should be a limbo. I think Freckle, Oak, and Raven could have definitely deserved something of a limbo for them to reflect on their actions. Same with Juniperclaw. And Mudclaw. And Onestar. And SOOO many other cats that toe the line of good and evil.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Dec 14, 2021 22:46:22 GMT -5
Oh man. reading through all this resurgence of Frecklewish Discussion makes me all the more thankful the actual scales of judgement aren’t so precariously balanced. I agree that Oakstar being allowed to live presumably a long enough time to see the error of his decision and express remorse and repentance for it being a validated reason (by the Editing teams anyway, it’s anyone’s guess really) for him to be in Starclan. But even if he would of died sooner rather then later, his nor Frecklewish’s transgressions are worthy of eternal damnation. reprimanding or punishment? Sure. condemned to the misery and anguish of hell for eternity? No. This whole hell v heaven thing in warriors just proves why there should be a limbo. I think Freckle, Oak, and Raven could have definitely deserved something of a limbo for them to reflect on their actions. Same with Juniperclaw. And Mudclaw. And Onestar. And SOOO many other cats that toe the line of good and evil. I'm personally against there being a limbo, partly because of my religious belief that there is no limbo, and once a soul has been weighed to be permitted entrance into heaven or condemned to hell it's indefinite, but that's probably an unpopular opinion and I'm not going to delve too deep into it. But even if they did decide to hypothetically create a limbo, with the introduction of their ludicrous trial system, and all the inconsistencies and revamped/additional mechanics regarding Starclan and the Dark Forest, and the gateway between them being a permeable barrier(at least for Starclan cats) between them, and both being capable of re-entering into the living world, and with Ashfur and other evil cats now being able to mask their malicious emotions and thoughts while being judged to manipulate their permittance into Starclan. I'd foresee a limbo doing a marginally mediocre job at best for reforming questionable/evil cats, and there being a bunch of feigning remorse, and taking advantage of the system, in order for those that are not reformed to gain admittance into Starclan in order to wreak havoc. I'd personally just wouldn't see much good becoming of a limbo, because as it currently stands, the afterlife in this series is just so irrevocably F-ed right now.
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#04F9B3
StarClan leader
Name Colour
Featherstar
She could now see that destiny alone could not save RiverClan. - Frostpaw, Wind
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Post by Featherstar on Dec 16, 2021 22:21:37 GMT -5
While we are on the talk about DF cats, Thistleclaw wasn't all that bad while living. (I won't mention the book that must not be named.) Sure he ordered then Tigerpaw to attack Tiny (Boy the karma later on though when Tiny now Scourge killed him.) And he took on a whole RiverClan patrol on by himself, but did he really do anything to deserve the DF? Sure he trained in it and killed a DF cat there (Ivypool did the same) But what did he really do to deserve the DF?
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Post by whiteflight on Dec 16, 2021 22:32:38 GMT -5
While we are on the talk about DF cats, Thistleclaw wasn't all that bad while living. (I won't mention the book that must not be named.) Sure he ordered then Tiger paw to attack Tiny (Boy the karma later on though when Tiny now Scourge killed him.) And he took on a whole RiverClan patrol on by himself, but did he really do anything to deserve the DF? Sure he trained in it and killed a DF cat there (Ivypool did the same) But what did he really do to deserve the DF? It's debatable if he deserved it or not. Some say he was a super agressive cat. And probably did decided to stay in the DF. Yeah Ivypool trained in the DF but she decided to not "join the dark side" and become a spy to help the three, so that easily gives her a pass to Starclan. Thistleclaw was battle hungry and Sunstar saw that himself knowing that Thistleclaw would bring danger to the clan.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 16, 2021 22:39:03 GMT -5
While we are on the talk about DF cats, Thistleclaw wasn't all that bad while living. (I won't mention the book that must not be named.) Sure he ordered then Tiger paw to attack Tiny (Boy the karma later on though when Tiny now Scourge killed him.) And he took on a whole RiverClan patrol on by himself, but did he really do anything to deserve the DF? Sure he trained in it and killed a DF cat there (Ivypool did the same) But what did he really do to deserve the DF? Being in the Dark Forest corrupts you every moment you're there. Thistleclaw spent the majority of his life in there. I don't think it's unreasonable to say he'd go to the Dark Forest, and especially with the likes of Antpelt, it seems like if you die while training in the Dark Forest, then you go there automatically as though your allegiance has been declared to it. Even assuming Thistleclaw didn't do anything else, the Antpelt precedent indicates that the Dark Forest corrupts you enough to keep you there if you die as part of it
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Dec 17, 2021 0:15:15 GMT -5
While we are on the talk about DF cats, Thistleclaw wasn't all that bad while living. (I won't mention the book that must not be named.) Sure he ordered then Tiger paw to attack Tiny (Boy the karma later on though when Tiny now Scourge killed him.) And he took on a whole RiverClan patrol on by himself, but did he really do anything to deserve the DF? Sure he trained in it and killed a DF cat there (Ivypool did the same) But what did he really do to deserve the DF? Besides being overly aggressive to the point of vowing to mark ThunderClan's borders with blood and nearly killing Oakheart just before, the Tiny incident (which was already horrible on its own), and training in the Dark Forest, he was also fully aware of its purpose and very clearly enjoyed it there. So, yes. He did. If anything, the thing with Spottedpaw only made him out to be worse than he already was, never mind that being in the Dark Forest long enough apparently corrupts the mind. Ivypool (who has nothing to do with Thistleclaw) is completely different. Just because two characters seem to be in similar situations doesn't actually mean they're comparable.
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