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Post by Cheetahstar on Nov 27, 2021 17:04:20 GMT -5
perhaps it was less she did nothing, which already is bad, but more so her feelings of the matter she didnt mean for them to die but how do we know she didnt feel satisfied over them in the river? too many what ifs pretty sure if feeling satisfaction from someone else’s suffering that you have resentment for was a ticket to the Dark Forest. There would be many more that would be tossed in The Dark Forest . The inconsistencies regarding the right of passage into Starclan is so flippant and all over the place it’s difficult to take seriously. And I’m probably in the minority, but personally I don’t think cats should be judged for merely having malicious thoughts once an awhile, or for not intervening in a rescue, while it’s maybe a bit heartless, I don’t think it’s morally wrong . Though overall I’m pretty neutral , and don’t really care if Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest or not, unless of course they decide to have her make an appearance in ASC then my opinion might change. But if they decide to give us another Arc with the overarching plot and story revolving around the Dark Forest again, honestly I wouldn’t know what to think about that. im talking about being satisfied at the kits drowning like literal kits
thats a bit much
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 27, 2021 17:48:01 GMT -5
pretty sure if feeling satisfaction from someone else’s suffering that you have resentment for was a ticket to the Dark Forest. There would be many more that would be tossed in The Dark Forest . The inconsistencies regarding the right of passage into Starclan is so flippant and all over the place it’s difficult to take seriously. And I’m probably in the minority, but personally I don’t think cats should be judged for merely having malicious thoughts once an awhile, or for not intervening in a rescue, while it’s maybe a bit heartless, I don’t think it’s morally wrong . Though overall I’m pretty neutral , and don’t really care if Frecklewish is in the Dark Forest or not, unless of course they decide to have her make an appearance in ASC then my opinion might change. But if they decide to give us another Arc with the overarching plot and story revolving around the Dark Forest again, honestly I wouldn’t know what to think about that. im talking about being satisfied at the kits drowning like literal kits
thats a bit much
correct me if I’m wrong . While Frecklewish definitely made some slanderous remarks about the kits, calling them half-clan creatures and what not and being spiteful and all. I don’t remember it ever being confirmed that she felt satisfaction from watching the kits drown specifically, even so we have examples like Russetfur Clearly finding sick enjoyment over Berrykit’s suffering when he got stuck in the fox trap and lost his tail back in Sunset, and yet she made it to Starclan. If Frecklewish would have chased Mapleshade down and pushed her kits into the River, with full intention of committing murder, then sure that’s an offense that would warrant being sent to TDF. Not putting herself in harms way to save them is arguably a polarizing move, but not sure if it’s exactly something that’s worthy of eternal condemnation. There’s plenty of others that have committed arguably more heinous crimes then her that went to starclan, so her being condemned to The Dark Forest for lashing out during her painstaking grief over the loss of her brother is just really inconsistent depiction of Starclan’s methods of weighing and determining whether a cats soul/spirit is deemed Good or Evil. Overall the ambiguity and ever changing nature of starclan and the dark forest and its ever increasing list of contradictions, is incredibly egregious and rubs me the wrong way, but that’s probably just me.
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Nov 27, 2021 18:13:36 GMT -5
LOL nice. But I'd be happier if we'd gotten the actual judgment scene instead of some random appearance of Frecklewish in the DF decades after everything had happened. Trust the Erins to do something like that without explaining... lol.
Frecklewish deserved it IMO. Not sending help or even trying to send help to Mapleshade and her kits is a big no-no in my book and I only wish she appeared there sooner.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Nov 27, 2021 22:09:40 GMT -5
I'm pretty neutral on it. Makes me wish we'd get more judgment scenes though? Like, does how soft your jury is determine where you go? Leafpool would have gone to the DF if Moth Flight had her way. How was Ashfur spared? Did Mudclaw only slip by because Tallstar was at his and felt bad? Did Frecklewish get stuck with the cats who made the codes of no apprentices before a certain age? the cats who made the rule about helping all kits? i'd like to think that cats who followed whatever codes were around when they were alive got to starclan. putting them in the dark forest before a code is even set in stone is even more dumb than the starclan trials The kit/apprentice rules were put in place before Frecklewish died (as, really, Frecklewish's death isn't THAT far from the OG series timeline). I'm just saying that the cats involved in the creation of those codes might have been at her trial. Or queens in general. We see the creator of the codes criticizing cats in Leafpool's trial (Moth Flight), so I can see something like that happening to Freckle
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 8:17:17 GMT -5
im talking about being satisfied at the kits drowning like literal kits
thats a bit much
correct me if I’m wrong . While Frecklewish definitely made some slanderous remarks about the kits, calling them half-clan creatures and what not and being spiteful and all. I don’t remember it ever being confirmed that she felt satisfaction from watching the kits drown specifically, even so we have examples like Russetfur Clearly finding sick enjoyment over Berrykit’s suffering when he got stuck in the fox trap and lost his tail back in Sunset, and yet she made it to Starclan. If Frecklewish would have chased Mapleshade down and pushed her kits into the River, with full intention of committing murder, then sure that’s an offense that would warrant being sent to TDF. Not putting herself in harms way to save them is arguably a polarizing move, but not sure if it’s exactly something that’s worthy of eternal condemnation. There’s plenty of others that have committed arguably more heinous crimes then her that went to starclan, so her being condemned to The Dark Forest for lashing out during her painstaking grief over the loss of her brother and is just really inconsistent depiction of Starclan’s methods of weighing and determining whether a cats soul/spirit is deemed Good or Evil. Overall the ambiguity and ever changing nature of starclan and the dark forest it’s ever increasing list of contradictions, is incredibly egregious and rubs me the wrong way, but that’s probably just me. She didn't. Frecklewish even told Mapleshade before she fought, that she never wanted the kits to die. "Too scared to fight me yourself, Frecklewish?" she hissed. "You prefer watching helpless kits drown, don't you?"
The brown she-cat stiffened. "I thought your kits would be saved," she rasped. "I never meant for them to die." - MV, chapter 7 Was Frecklewish wrong for taking her pain out on the kits? Absolutely. But the only reason she did any of this is out of grief. Frecklewish was lied to, led by a false belief that Birchface, her own brother, was the father. She acted out of grief, and had a good reason to despise Mapleshade. Mapleshade doesn't care about her or her clan. She only cared about her kits. I don't think she deserved to be exiled, but her clan had every right to be pissed at her, and I'll never see that in any other way. She betrayed her clan by taking a Riverclan mate, lying to them about a well respected warrior and even lied to her own kits about the father. And she shouldn't have expected a medicine cat to cover up her mistakes for her tbh. She really had no right to beg him for that. You messed up, and took a mate who killed one of your clanmates. Of course her clan is going to be angry. In the end, Mapleshade is the worst out of all of them, for wanting to kill these cats and not having any ounce of self-reflection of trying to understand why her clan was angry at her. She wanted to kill a pregnant cat because Reedshine had Appledusk, allowed a cat who acted out of grief to go blind, and killed a healer in front of their ancestors. And she even admitted she was proud of what she's done. Mapleshade's disgusting.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 8:30:18 GMT -5
If anything Frecklewish deserves to roam around between Starclan and the Dark Forest. We don't have enough information on Frecklewish to judge that she deserved to be there. From my perspective, I think she acted out of grief and her words proved that to me she didn't mean to intentionally harm the kits. She messed up and wanted innocent kits to get exiled and attacked a queen, and because of that I definitely think she doesn't deserve Starclan, but because she didn't want the kits to die and didn't mean harm to the kits, she deserved to be in that in-between realm instead. Idk that's just me. She really doesn't deserve to be in the DF because we don't know enough about Freckle.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 8:35:14 GMT -5
perhaps it was less she did nothing, which already is bad, but more so her feelings of the matter she didnt mean for them to die but how do we know she didnt feel satisfied over them in the river? too many what ifs MV was a poorly done book that didn't give us enough information about these characters and everyone's second-guessing things because of that. We don't have any information about Frecklewish being a good or bad cat, we don't know if Ravenwing was malicious and intentionally wanted the kits to be exiled. We don't even have evidence if Appledusk even cared about the kits. And nobody in the book cared that a queen and her kits was exiled. This is why I hated MV. It's poorly done, with little details about the characters. And now we'll never get a super edition on Mapleshade because she already has this horribly written novella. It isn't a good book.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Nov 28, 2021 9:09:40 GMT -5
Good, if only Oakstar would have joined her.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Nov 28, 2021 10:15:52 GMT -5
frecklewish saying something mean and not potentially killing herself in a flooding river to save others is worthy of the dark forest now?
you cant even say its because she wanted mapleshade + kin to leave, because literally the whole clan wanted the same as was the norm with half-clan illegitimacies at the time.
she verbally confirmed she did not want the kits to die and thought they would rescued. two thunderclan cats drowned in the same book alone. although sacrificing yourself for others is a morally good act, that doesnt mean choosing NOT to is evil; it’s just neutral. Frecklewish is not morally obligated to potentially/probably sacrifice her own life for others, even if it’d be a good thing to do.
so literally her crimes boil down to saying something mean.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 28, 2021 10:45:24 GMT -5
Yeah, this has been known for awhile now and, honestly, I'm just more confused about it than anything because this entire time, I've been trying to figure out how this entire system works. Best I can come up with that would probably make the most sense is that Frecklewish died with hatred in her heart, but considering she died days later, I'd kinda say it was justified, considering the circumstances.
Calling the kits "creatures" and not trying to save them are horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean she actually wanted them to die, either. We just don't know and probably never will unless we get her PoV on the matter for whatever reason. Why does she have to hate them to get sent to the Dark Forest? The fact that she just watched and did nothing should be enough, however understandable the circumstances were.
And, y'know, the family tree may not actually be all that reliable after all.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 28, 2021 10:50:31 GMT -5
I’m still more upset about Stumpytail than her due to child attachments tbh. He also remained the entire time in ShadowClan after his mentor was overthrown and later is part of the joint battle with WindClan against TC for harboring Brokentail. But nope, DF for a cat who never even followed Brokenstar into exile with his cronies. I think the family tree was working more on the portrayal that he did follow Brokenstar into exile, as this is what happens in TF, which is already filled with inconsistencies anyway. This is why I'm taking the family tree with a grain of salt at best.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 10:56:08 GMT -5
Yeah, this has been known for awhile now and, honestly, I'm just more confused about it than anything because this entire time, I've been trying to figure out how this entire system works. Best I can come up with that would probably make the most sense is that Frecklewish died with hatred in her heart, but considering she died days later, I'd kinda say it was justified, considering the circumstances. Calling the kits "creatures" and not trying to save them are horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean she actually wanted them to die, either. We just don't know and probably never will unless we get her PoV on the matter for whatever reason. Why does she have to hate them to get sent to the Dark Forest? The fact that she just watched and did nothing should be enough, however understandable the circumstances were. And, y'know, the family tree may not actually be all that reliable after all. I think she did carry hate in her heart, considering she still wanted Mapleshade to die and attacked her. She was probably going to kill her.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 28, 2021 11:05:26 GMT -5
Yeah, this has been known for awhile now and, honestly, I'm just more confused about it than anything because this entire time, I've been trying to figure out how this entire system works. Best I can come up with that would probably make the most sense is that Frecklewish died with hatred in her heart, but considering she died days later, I'd kinda say it was justified, considering the circumstances. Calling the kits "creatures" and not trying to save them are horrible, but that doesn't necessarily mean she actually wanted them to die, either. We just don't know and probably never will unless we get her PoV on the matter for whatever reason. Why does she have to hate them to get sent to the Dark Forest? The fact that she just watched and did nothing should be enough, however understandable the circumstances were. And, y'know, the family tree may not actually be all that reliable after all. I think she did carry hate in her heart, considering she still wanted Mapleshade to die and attacked her. She was probably going to kill her. True, but then again, Mapleshade was a rogue at this point and Frecklewish would've been under no obligation to show her any leniency. Mapleshade was actually lucky Frecklewish even gave her a warning.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 11:08:01 GMT -5
I think she did carry hate in her heart, considering she still wanted Mapleshade to die and attacked her. She was probably going to kill her. True, but then again, Mapleshade was a rogue at this point and Frecklewish would've been under no obligation to show her any leniency. Mapleshade was actually lucky Frecklewish even gave her a warning. Eh. Frecklewish's intentions were to hurt Mapleshade. I'm reading the scene right now, and she lunges for her, saying she wishes she were dead. However, she does want her off her land because Mapleshade wasn't supposed to be there, confirming your words about treating her as a rogue. Then Mapleshade allows a snake to blind Frecklewish, and she says that she hoped Frecklewish would die in agony. In the end, both cats were horrible. But, Frecklewish only hated Mapleshade, and never wanted the kits to die. She confirmed this with her own words.
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Post by Katanaheart on Nov 28, 2021 11:26:15 GMT -5
I’m still more upset about Stumpytail than her due to child attachments tbh. He also remained the entire time in ShadowClan after his mentor was overthrown and later is part of the joint battle with WindClan against TC for harboring Brokentail. But nope, DF for a cat who never even followed Brokenstar into exile with his cronies. I think the family tree was working more on the portrayal that he did follow Brokenstar into exile, as this is what happens in TF, which is already filled with inconsistencies anyway. This is why I'm taking the family tree with a grain of salt at best. Ah! He may need to be swapped out for a cat that was actively following Brokenstar into exile then. TF just irritates me such as throwing Ratscar in and making him much older than we first see him. And now throwing poor Stumpytail in with Brokenstar’s lot, even when he has an appearance that makes this untrue.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 28, 2021 12:38:14 GMT -5
correct me if I’m wrong . While Frecklewish definitely made some slanderous remarks about the kits, calling them half-clan creatures and what not and being spiteful and all. I don’t remember it ever being confirmed that she felt satisfaction from watching the kits drown specifically, even so we have examples like Russetfur Clearly finding sick enjoyment over Berrykit’s suffering when he got stuck in the fox trap and lost his tail back in Sunset, and yet she made it to Starclan. If Frecklewish would have chased Mapleshade down and pushed her kits into the River, with full intention of committing murder, then sure that’s an offense that would warrant being sent to TDF. Not putting herself in harms way to save them is arguably a polarizing move, but not sure if it’s exactly something that’s worthy of eternal condemnation. There’s plenty of others that have committed arguably more heinous crimes then her that went to starclan, so her being condemned to The Dark Forest for lashing out during her painstaking grief over the loss of her brother and is just really inconsistent depiction of Starclan’s methods of weighing and determining whether a cats soul/spirit is deemed Good or Evil. Overall the ambiguity and ever changing nature of starclan and the dark forest it’s ever increasing list of contradictions, is incredibly egregious and rubs me the wrong way, but that’s probably just me. She didn't. Frecklewish even told Mapleshade before she fought, that she never wanted the kits to die. "Too scared to fight me yourself, Frecklewish?" she hissed. "You prefer watching helpless kits drown, don't you?"
The brown she-cat stiffened. "I thought your kits would be saved," she rasped. "I never meant for them to die." - MV, chapter 7 Was Frecklewish wrong for taking her pain out on the kits? Absolutely. But the only reason she did any of this is out of grief. Frecklewish was lied to, led by a false belief that Birchface, her own brother, was the father. She acted out of grief, and had a good reason to despise Mapleshade. Mapleshade doesn't care about her or her clan. She only cared about her kits. I don't think she deserved to be exiled, but her clan had every right to be pissed at her, and I'll never see that in any other way. She betrayed her clan by taking a Riverclan mate, lying to them about a well respected warrior and even lied to her own kits about the father. And she shouldn't have expected a medicine cat to cover up her mistakes for her tbh. She really had no right to beg him for that. You messed up, and took a mate who killed one of your clanmates. Of course her clan is going to be angry. In the end, Mapleshade is the worst out of all of them, for wanting to kill these cats and not having any ounce of self-reflection of trying to understand why her clan was angry at her. She wanted to kill a pregnant cat because Reedshine had Appledusk, allowed a cat who acted out of grief to go blind, and killed a healer in front of their ancestors. And she even admitted she was proud of what she's done. Mapleshade's disgusting. Yeah, with MV solely focusing on Mapleshade it’s impossible to glean enough information about the rest of the characters involved in the incident to come to any conclusive understanding, Frecklewish is a bit of a coin toss on whether she would of Carried her hatred for Mapleshade for the rest of her life, but I honestly think she’d eventually move on, find peace, live out the rest of her life without holding in resentment and grief, and letting it fester and haunt her forever. And Oakstar’s only involvement was Exiling her from Thunderclan, And Ravenwing was just interpreting an Omen sent from starclan, so can’t really find fault there. The only real problems that cause confusion to me is how Starclan has been depicted more inconsistent then the weather in the recent series, and are characterized as a Pseudo-Christianized Cult that seems to think their honorable, and can just exact judgement how they deem fit Willy-Nilly, and make decisions based off prejudice and don’t have an actual concrete set of doctrines and rules set in place to weight out their crimes in the afterlife to decide who’s permitted entry, and honestly it’s quite disturbing and uncomfortable and really rubs me the wrong way. I much the mysterious energies/powers whatever determining whether or not their souls are worthy of kitty heaven or hell, might be a bit vague and ambiguous, but it’s befitting since the afterlife is such a mysterious, ambiguous concept in the first place.
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Post by Aqua on Nov 28, 2021 13:30:56 GMT -5
She didn't. Frecklewish even told Mapleshade before she fought, that she never wanted the kits to die. "Too scared to fight me yourself, Frecklewish?" she hissed. "You prefer watching helpless kits drown, don't you?"
The brown she-cat stiffened. "I thought your kits would be saved," she rasped. "I never meant for them to die." - MV, chapter 7 Was Frecklewish wrong for taking her pain out on the kits? Absolutely. But the only reason she did any of this is out of grief. Frecklewish was lied to, led by a false belief that Birchface, her own brother, was the father. She acted out of grief, and had a good reason to despise Mapleshade. Mapleshade doesn't care about her or her clan. She only cared about her kits. I don't think she deserved to be exiled, but her clan had every right to be pissed at her, and I'll never see that in any other way. She betrayed her clan by taking a Riverclan mate, lying to them about a well respected warrior and even lied to her own kits about the father. And she shouldn't have expected a medicine cat to cover up her mistakes for her tbh. She really had no right to beg him for that. You messed up, and took a mate who killed one of your clanmates. Of course her clan is going to be angry. In the end, Mapleshade is the worst out of all of them, for wanting to kill these cats and not having any ounce of self-reflection of trying to understand why her clan was angry at her. She wanted to kill a pregnant cat because Reedshine had Appledusk, allowed a cat who acted out of grief to go blind, and killed a healer in front of their ancestors. And she even admitted she was proud of what she's done. Mapleshade's disgusting. Yeah, with MV solely focusing on Mapleshade it’s impossible to glean enough information about the rest of the characters involved in the incident to come to any conclusive understanding, Frecklewish is a bit of a coin toss on whether she would of Carried her hatred for Mapleshade for the rest of her life, but I honestly think she’d eventually move on, find peace, live out the rest of her life without holding in resentment and grief, and letting it fester and haunt her forever. And Oakstar’s only involvement was Exiling her from Thunderclan, And Ravenwing was just interpreting an Omen sent from starclan, so can’t really find fault there. The only real problems that cause confusion to me is how Starclan has been depicted more inconsistent then the weather in the recent series, and are characterized as a Pseudo-Christianized Cult that seems to think their honorable, and can just exact judgement how they deem fit Willy-Nilly, and make decisions based off prejudice and don’t have an actual concrete set of doctrines and rules set in place to weight out their crimes in the afterlife to decide who’s permitted entry, and honestly it’s quite disturbing and uncomfortable and really rubs me the wrong way. I much the mysterious energies/powers whatever determining whether or not their souls are worthy of kitty heaven or hell, might be a bit vague and ambiguous, but it’s befitting since the afterlife is such a mysterious, ambiguous concept in the first place. I've always felt that Mapleshade treated Frecklewish unfairly, even before the truth came out. She lied to Frecklewish about her family being related to the kits which is pretty messed up - anyone would be mad at that. Of course Frecklewish was wrong to lash out at Mapleshade for the way she did, but I always sided Frecklewish more because Mapleshade has been unfair right from the beginning. She used Frecklewish, allowing her to believe that Birchface was the father when every cat in the clan knew Frecklewish was devastated by his death. Even Ravenwing told Mapleshade that Frecklewish felt that her life was worth living again after Mapleshade told her those lies. To me Mapleshade will always be more in the wrong. What reason did she have to betray her like this, other than hiding what she'd done? She isn't any different than Dovewing or Leafpool for this case. Mapleshade had unexpected desires for the kittens, thinking they'd stop the battles between TC and RC, and believed everything would be okay when she planned to tell the truth. Frecklewish was wrong to attack a queen, but she did it out of grief, a cat who was grieving over her own brother and upset at the fact that Mapleshade lied to her about her family. It's messed up and I don't blame Frecklewish for acting the way she did, just that she should've treated the kits better, but I understand her hatred towards Mapleshade. Mapleshade was horrible to her. And honestly, it's a big reason why I despise Mapleshade so much, and I am genuinely annoyed how her fans act like Mapleshade hasn't done anything wrong and say "but she didn't lie to Frecklewish!" Bluestar didn't say a lie to her kits, but she still allowed Mistyfoot and Stonefur to believe that their mother was Graypool and they wanted to kill her for it. Mapleshade not saying a lie isn't any different than that. Her clan was still angry at her for finding out she was with Appledusk.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Nov 28, 2021 14:20:57 GMT -5
Aqua said “ I've always felt that Mapleshade treated Frecklewish unfairly, even before the truth came out. She lied to Frecklewish about her family being related to the kits which is pretty messed up - anyone would be mad at that. Of course Frecklewish was wrong to lash out at Mapleshade for the way she did, but I always sided Frecklewish more because Mapleshade has been unfair right from the beginning. She used Frecklewish, allowing her to believe that Birchface was the father when every cat in the clan knew Frecklewish was devastated by his death. Even Ravenwing told Mapleshade that Frecklewish felt that her life was worth living again after Mapleshade told her those lies. To me Mapleshade will always be more in the wrong. What reason did she have to betray her like this, other than hiding what she'd done? She isn't any different than Dovewing or Leafpool for this case. Mapleshade had unexpected desires for the kittens, thinking they'd stop the battles between TC and RC, and believed everything would be okay when she planned to tell the truth.
Frecklewish was wrong to attack a queen, but she did it out of grief, a cat who was grieving over her own brother and upset at the fact that Mapleshade lied to her about her family. It's messed up and I don't blame Frecklewish for acting the way she did, just that she should've treated the kits better, but I understand her hatred towards Mapleshade. Mapleshade was horrible to her. And honestly, it's a big reason why I despise Mapleshade so much, and I am genuinely annoyed how her fans act like Mapleshade hasn't done anything wrong and say "but she didn't lie to Frecklewish!" Bluestar didn't say a lie to her kits, but she still allowed Mistyfoot and Stonefur to believe that their mother was Graypool and they wanted to kill her for it. Mapleshade not saying a lie isn't any different than that. Her clan was still angry at her for finding out she was with Appledusk. [/quote]
yep, absolutely, I mostly agree. To me Mapleshade is a Classic case of knowingly committing a serious Faux pas, being punished, and then Lashing out because they the consequences are either unfair or not justified. Which consequences and punishments are understandably not always easy to endure or accept, but in Mapleshades case with her thinking it’s completely unjust and unwarranted and that she was undeserving of admonishment is a telltale sign of 1. Lack of accountability. 2 acknowledgment that she’s done something wrong. 3 remorse and penitence for her mistakes. I don’t think Frecklewish, Oakstar or Ravenwing deserve the Dark Forest, or the hatred from the fandom they receive, yes there was some harsh words spoken that were uncalled for, but what’s to be expected? Frecklewish is Grief-stricken from the lose of her brother, and Oakstar is lamenting the lose of a Son , and Ravenwing was just doing his duty as a medicine cat. Being Exiled may be a steep Punishment, but expecting to get off scot-free which is very much Mapleshades mindset, as she clearly has a sense of entitlement, and believes she hasn’t done anything worthy of consequence .
I Feel like the Writing Team has something planned for Frecklewish in ASC and is a big reason to why they made the changes. But only time will tell.
Edit: apparently it didn’t insert the Quote, stupid mobile version. Anyway that’s in response to Aqua’s post above ^
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Nov 28, 2021 14:28:34 GMT -5
Honestly, i find it to be quite nonsensical. Not only was she acting out of grief causing her to think irrationally and not make the best decisions, but in the end she quite admitted that she didin't mean for them to die. The fact that she goes to the DF just for that is silly. Especially when we have cats like Ashfur.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Nov 28, 2021 14:58:56 GMT -5
The scene where she said half-clan creatures was moments before they were exiled. After that, she expressed no satisfaction over them dying. Even when Mapleshade accuses her of being satisfied that they must be dead, all she does is express that she didin't mean for them to die, and insult Mapleshade instead. She dosen't bring them up at all, she only expresses spite to their mother, who's probably making her feel even more guilty for letting them die.
And if calling someone creatures is dark forest worthy, then why isin't a fully aware hostile Shrewclaw going to the dark forest for calling ShadowClan skinny creatures while they're suffering from starvation?
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Nov 28, 2021 15:06:54 GMT -5
I think she did carry hate in her heart, considering she still wanted Mapleshade to die and attacked her. She was probably going to kill her. True, but then again, Mapleshade was a rogue at this point and Frecklewish would've been under no obligation to show her any leniency. Mapleshade was actually lucky Frecklewish even gave her a warning. The fact that she gave her a warning just shows that she didin't want her to inmediately die. Only when Mapleshade spits at her that "she let her kits die" and stuff, does Freckle start saying that she wishes Maple was the one dead. I interpret that scene as Mapleshade hitting Frecklewish directly on her biggest guilt and making her lash out in grief once again.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 28, 2021 15:12:53 GMT -5
True, but then again, Mapleshade was a rogue at this point and Frecklewish would've been under no obligation to show her any leniency. Mapleshade was actually lucky Frecklewish even gave her a warning. The fact that she gave her a warning just shows that she didin't want her to inmediately die. Only when Mapleshade spits at her that "she let her kits die" and stuff, does Freckle start saying that she wishes Maple was the one dead. I interpret that scene as Mapleshade hitting Frecklewish directly on her biggest guilt and making her lash out in grief once again. Agreed. Frecklewish going to the Dark Forest for letting the kits die, I understand. But again, there's no reason to think she actually had any malicious intent. Lashing out at Mapleshade in instances that were clearly in the moment (which is a problem on its its own) doesn't mean she actually hated the kits themselves.
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Post by thewinterblaze on Nov 28, 2021 19:08:57 GMT -5
Honestly, at this point, I don't even care. The fiasco that was Mapleshade happened a long time ago, and revealing that Frecklewish is in the DF is basically just fan service.
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Post by cable on Nov 28, 2021 19:15:34 GMT -5
Why not Ashfur or Mudclaw or Juniperclaw? juniperclaw did go to the dark forest, as of alitm.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Nov 28, 2021 19:40:43 GMT -5
wait u know what i just realized
in the warriors society, it's probably more honorable to die trying to save innocent kits than it is to just stand there and assume "someone else" will save them...
like would it really be legal to stand by and watch someone get mugged because you assume "that big guy over there can save them, not me" ? or would it ok to watch kids drown in a pool while the lifeguard is a few feet away? u'd go in there to do something until the lifeguard gets there. 100%.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Nov 28, 2021 19:47:38 GMT -5
wait u know what i just realized in the warriors society, it's probably more honorable to die trying to save innocent kits than it is to just stand there and assume "someone else" will save them... like would it really be legal to stand by and watch someone get mugged because you assume "that big guy over there can save them, not me" ? or would it ok to watch kids drown in a pool while the lifeguard is a few feet away? u'd go in there to do something until the lifeguard gets there. 100%. For children? Definitely. Can you imagine an adult just watching while children drown and hoping someone else will do something? They would get REAMED, and rightfully so. Adults are a little more flexible because an adult can drag you down with them, but a child can't and people are expected to do whatever possible to protect children
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Post by Spooky Alice on Nov 28, 2021 19:48:15 GMT -5
wait u know what i just realized in the warriors society, it's probably more honorable to die trying to save innocent kits than it is to just stand there and assume "someone else" will save them... like would it really be legal to stand by and watch someone get mugged because you assume "that big guy over there can save them, not me" ? or would it ok to watch kids drown in a pool while the lifeguard is a few feet away? u'd go in there to do something until the lifeguard gets there. 100%. uh it is completely legal to not intervene in the real world?? no one would judge someone who can't swim In Real Life of not saving someone who is drowning (which btw it is extremely dangerous to do so if you aren't a professional or trained)
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Nov 28, 2021 19:52:56 GMT -5
like would it really be legal to stand by and watch someone get mugged because you assume "that big guy over there can save them, not me" ? or would it ok to watch kids drown in a pool while the lifeguard is a few feet away? u'd go in there to do something until the lifeguard gets there. 100%. Have you heard of the bystander effect? This post reminded me of it.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Nov 28, 2021 19:55:47 GMT -5
wait u know what i just realized in the warriors society, it's probably more honorable to die trying to save innocent kits than it is to just stand there and assume "someone else" will save them... like would it really be legal to stand by and watch someone get mugged because you assume "that big guy over there can save them, not me" ? or would it ok to watch kids drown in a pool while the lifeguard is a few feet away? u'd go in there to do something until the lifeguard gets there. 100%. uh it is completely legal to not intervene in the real world?? no one would judge someone who can't swim In Real Life of not saving someone who is drowning (which btw it is extremely dangerous to do so if you aren't a professional or trained) People will judge someone who doesn't save CHILDREN. Adults? People understand because that is dangerous, but a 5-6 year old child? That's what this is in reference to. People don't really think about anything when it comes to trying to save kids.
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