DARKNESS WITHIN SAMPLE OUT ON iBooks!!!! DW spoilers!

Well yes, but somebody always gets the book a week or two before it even comes out.

I highly doubt StarClan sent Ashfur to punish the codebreakers; they sent him to do something else. The codebreaker thing was prob Ashfur’s idea

So I've finally gotten to posting my thoughts for this, here we go.

Huh. Looking it up, Sedgewhisker was called a tom throughout Dark River apparently. This reminds me of Gorsetail constantly being called a tom despite having kits. Like mother, like daughter, I guess.

Didn't the "tattling" happen way later during their confrontation in Long Shadows? Or am I misremembering?
EDIT: Misunderstood, I remember what you mean. Although the narrative is kinda ambiguous as to whether he did that on purpose to get Bramble in trouble or chickened out (it mentions he was spewing fear scent, which I imagine is difficult to fake). Either way, I think some parts of Ashfur's character can be left up for interpretation, and personally I like the idea of Brambleclaw just being collateral in Ashfur's plots rather than a target.

Right, and I agree with that. His methods are rational but the end is not. I suppose I'm wary of fans who cast Ashfur as a raging lunatic who does things without rhyme or reason, when in reality he's always been a very focused, intentional villain. His scope may widen or narrow but there is always a focus, and he doesn't do evil things just because he's evil but because he has a particular justification and bone to pick.

Oh man, I love this look at his character. I was bothered by his characterization in GV, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why, but this is exactly what it is. Ashfur being completely normal is what made his descent to madness so terrifying - it's a trait often seen in serial killers, where they seem like completely fine people until you're under the knife. It's precisely Ashfur's lack of character that makes him so damn scary as a villain. He was just a normal warrior, maybe a little judgmental - but he was Cloudtail's brother, Dustpelt's apprentice, and friends with Thornclaw, what would you expect? He wasn't outright menacing or waving red flags in the air like Tigerstar, Brokenstar, and Hawkfrost were. 

Imo, Ashfur is a great example of "even your neighbor could be evil." He was never a massive ass, or particularly ambitious, or really overly violent. He was just....there, until he snapped and helped to kill his leader, abused his apprentice, and attempted to murder four cats. I think that's why he has the potential to be such a compelling villain if used well. He had no grand plan in life, no destiny from StarClan saying that he'd be evil from birth, no training in the Dark Forest or wicked heritage. It's completely different than all the other (clan-born) villains, and it could be terrifiying.

And here you are falling into the same trap that you often accuse others of falling into; attributing a greater and stronger personality to OS/TNP Ashfur than he had in canon. Ashfur drove away the cat he was romantically interested in not because his views were worse than any of the other opinionated cats I just listed, but because the cat he was interested in was Squirrelflight. Thornclaw gets together with Blossomfall, a cat who shares his views. Dustpelt gets together with Ferncloud, a gentle type of cat who is kind to everyone but not the type to make political views a deal breaker. It's Squirrelflight who would be driven away by sneering about kitty pets, and I think Squirrelflight would never have been able to form a romance with Dustpelt, Thornclaw or Spiderleg for the same reasons. He didn't drive away all his friends just through his political views; Thornclaw and Dustpelt never stopped and said "wow, we think Firestar lets in too many kitty pets, but this cat is crazy and goes too far" - in fact, Ashfur was considered very respected by his Clan when he died and heavily mourned, the only reason they are so willing to believe he is evil now is because Bramblestar already told them about Ashfur being secretly horrible years ago. Can you name any time in TNP where a. Ashfur is taking some kind of argumentative and unpleasant view and b. the other cats who express similar views (Mousefur, Cloudtail, Dustpelt, Thornclaw, Spiderleg) relent and think Ashfur is going too far/explicitly describe him as more argumentative than any of them ever were? As far as I'm aware, that only happens in GV.

I also reread all of Ashfur’s scenes in Twilight and it’s clear that a Ashfur doesn’t stand out as particularly argumentative or aggressive compared to other cats in ThunderClan. He’s consistently staying calm when Brambleclaw is going out of his way to insult him for every petty thing, and only argues with him once. when Squirrelflight discusses said argument with Sandstorm, they agree that all toms can be like that, but don’t say anything about Ashfur in particular being normally argumentative. You can’t just chalk this up to him trying to be on his best behavior to impress Squirrelflight, either; for one, Squirrelflight has literally known and lived in the same Clan as Ashfur her whole life, so she would know if Ashfur was behaving out of character for her sake. Also, he always tries to get Squirrelflight to see things from Brambleclaw’s perspective, even if taking her side would impress her more. He defends Brambleclaws loyalty to her even though everyone suspects him and Hawkfrost, and even though Squirrelflight broke up with a Brambleclaw because of Hawkfrost so it would be in his best interests if she keeps believing Brambleclaw is disloyal. he even defends WindClan (calmly and maturely), asking his a Clan to see things from their perspective when Onestar is acting strange. Even Firestar is more suspicious of Onestar here than Ashfur is. Finally, Squirrelflight explicitly notes he is much more welcoming of Daisy and her kits compared to Brambleclaw, and its Brambleclaw’s views, not Ashfur’s, that unnerve her. Many cats (Brambleclaw, Dustpelt, Sootfur, even Brackenfur a bit) are shown being skeptical and angry about the new kitty pets, but not Ashfur. And he doesn’t even argue with Firestar when he stops him from going with Squirrelflight on a dangerous mission, although he is disappointed. So he won’t even argue with Firestar about the cat he has an unhealthy obsession with! None of this is in character with someone who is the most argumentative cat in ThunderClan, more than Dustpelt, Thornclaw, or any of the rest of them, and stands out for being aggressive and mean. 

I'm curious...

Anecdotal evidence of how much people change after a break-up isn't helpful. I can very well just as easily say that when it comes to toxic people, my experience is that it is always a pattern of behaviors and red flags that they put a mask over up until the mask slips off. People can be very, very good at hiding their true selves, especially when rose tinted glasses comes on; that tends to block out all the red flags. A break-up making someone angry is one thing. Making them turn homicidal, spew out all kinds of invectives, and they probably had problems even beforehand. Seriously, this is the reason why nowadays, after every horrible event that happens, you can look up that person's history and you can generally find a history leading up to it. And that's when people go "why couldn't we have seen the signs?", because it's not as if a switch just went off due to some event to make them do bad things. There was a history of toxic thought leading up to it.

Why would Squirrelflight know much about Ashfur's true character? They barely interacted pre-lake. You're assuming that she knows him well enough to notice a change in him, but that's really not backed up by anything. His defense of Brambleclaw gaining him more points may have been true, but bearing in mind from Ashfur's perspective, that may not necessarily be true. He's not liable to know what Squirrelflight will and will not like, so he has to guess. The fact that he reacts with nothing but disgusted for Brambleclaw's heritage later shows his true colors. Even after a break-up, no one thinks things like the Tigerstar heritage line if they didn't already believe that before. What someone says in anger is generally going to reflect their instinctive thoughts, and if that's Ashfur's instinct, it's pretty clear he was just lying before.

By the way, at the time when Ashfur starts giving his murder glares that freak out Leafpool, he and Squirrelflight aren't actually broken up. He was just furious at seeing Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw together at all. So yes, there are definitely signs of this even before the break-up. Which makes perfect sense, the kind of person Ashfur is generally does have red flags even before they fully take off the mask. You cannot attribute his change in character entirely to a single break-up.

Yea,

"We shouldn't have trusted him when he was/we were alive, why should we have trusted him now" basically

gd it I was so clinging on to that irrational hope that it wasn't the edgefest of yester-decade being raffled off as the new villain for this arc

The code better be revised at this point, the concept of the code being manipulated against the Clans is a such a sucked-dry topic it's taking years off my youth

i'm not sure "ashfur reasonably could (and perhaps should) have had red flags his whole life before his murder spree/rejection rage" necessarily means he therefore did have such flags in writing.

i think the point that some people are trying to make is that because he wasn't OBVIOUSLY super aggressive/argumentative/etc (even if he was subtly in some places) pre-break up, it doesnt make sense to retroactively make him OBVIOUSLY a problem cat in his past. his behavior was fueled by jealousy over squirrelflight and so making him this super outspoken, hostile, nasty cat in the past in such an over-the-top way when he was a brand new warrior and before squirrelflight was even born feels clunky and out of character. a few subtler signs would have made much more sense than the overt show we got in GV.

Also to add another point connecting with TNP. Wouldn't it make sense for Ashfur to try portraying a "good guy" persona to Squirrelflight? And from what I remember, Bramblestar just didn't really care much about him to have much of a focus in his perspectives, I could be wrong though.

And from real world examples, this example of somebody on the outside portraying "good guy" behavior but a dark side (esp on how they view women) is quite common. And the Dark side can definitely go into full view after perceived rejection. Which can later be followed by a "I'm over it now, but I'm really not."