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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:04:17 GMT -5
Go off Tornear you are so valid sweetie
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:06:24 GMT -5
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Post by Hollyfall on May 23, 2021 21:15:37 GMT -5
I'm heavily anticipating that come release day, people are going to claim that Mudclaw was butchered/out of character in this book. Dude's just being a petty jerk from what's been said so far, which is not all too surprising. I still find him an interesting character regardless though.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:17:00 GMT -5
Nah he's the exact same as in the main series, a spiteful jerk
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Post by vectoring34 on May 23, 2021 21:22:25 GMT -5
I am withholding my commentary until we get to the ending, but thus far, this is not only exactly what I expected but also exactly what I wanted to see. Envy and pride were behind Mudclaw's rebellion, there was nothing noble in it. The best one can say is that he was, ironically, just a puppet for Hawkfrost. The worst one can say, well, attempting to pull a Tigerstar with the dogs...
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Post by Jaysnow on May 23, 2021 21:23:26 GMT -5
Now on his territory, Mudclaw knows that Hawkfrost is right, that blood must be spilled to prevent a greater tragedy but the pain in his belly makes his pelt prickle and claws ache. Leafpaw approaches Mudclaw and says she needs to speak w Barkface as she has a message from StarClan, to Mudclaw’s horror. On the island, he tells the group they need to act sooner than they planned due to Leafpaw finding the Moonpool. The cats around him suggest that it’s only convenient Firestar’s daughter found the Moonpool and that Firestar just wants everyone to think Onewhisker got his lives so that they can accept him as leader. Mudclaw tells them the med cats are meeting at the Moonpool tomorrow night and after that Barkface will take Onewhisker to the Moonpool. They all know they have run out of time. Hawkfrost says that the only choice is to kill Onewhisker and that Ashfoot won’t have any right to lead if he dies before getting his lives, if she survives that is. Hawkfrost tells them it is the only way for Mudclaw to become leader and for Firestar to lose his power over WC. While Hawkfrost’s word make sense in Mudclaw’s head, his belly still feels like it’s about to eat itself. He isn’t sure if he can do this and questions if murdering a Clanmate is justified. He eventually agrees w Hawkfrost and says they have to do this. Hawkfrost says he needs to give them all swimming lessons as they are terrible swimmers. As the other cats leave, Hawkfrost tells them to remember the plan. Now alone w Mudclaw, he tells him not to worry and that this is the first step to their Clans being stronger than ever and to imagine how much better a leader Brambleclaw will be than Firestar. Mudclaw in disbelief asks if he really wants Brambleclaw leading TC, as he has backed Firestar all the way and was even his apprentice. Hawkfrost tells him not to worry as Brambleclaw will come around to their way of thinking onbcc he’s out of Firestar’s paw.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 23, 2021 21:35:16 GMT -5
I remember people speculating whether Mudclaw was actually planning to kill Onewhisker or just drive him away, and I'm both glad and mortified that we now have confirmation of this. How did he get into StarClan? What, was his only fault loving his Clan too much?
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Post by vectoring34 on May 23, 2021 21:36:21 GMT -5
I remember people speculating whether Mudclaw was actually planning to kill Onewhisker or just drive him away, and I'm both glad and mortified that we now have confirmation of this. How did he get into StarClan? What, was his only fault loving his Clan too much? He's got that "too incompetent to actually carry it out" tag slapped on and by virtue of that skims by.
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Post by Jaysnow on May 23, 2021 21:41:10 GMT -5
Mudclaw says that the way Hawkfrost sees it, Mudclaw will become WC leader and Brambleclaw TC leader and asks Hawkfrost what *he* will be doing and why he is helping him in the first place. Hawkfrost asks Mudclaw if he hasnt forgotten about what he said about making him 2nd in command. Mudclaw in disbelief asks Hawkfrost if he was actually serious about leaving RC to be WC’s deputy. Hawkfrost says that of course he was serious and asks him to imagine the two of them talking over Onewhisker and Ashfoot and then free fo focus all on RC. Mudclaw realizes he means to abandon one clan to join another only to go back and take over RC. Mudclaw asks him if he has some cat in mind for ShC too. Hawkfrost says there is no need as Blackstar will back them up once he understands which way the **winds are blowing**. Mudclaw sees that Hawkfrost means to break the code and that he won’t be just breaking it, he’d be killing and burying it. He reflects on how it goes against everything he ever learned and that Hawkfrost would only be doing what Tigerstar did and exactly what he is accusing Firestar of, so much killing and suffering. He then concludes that it doesn’t and can’t matter and who cares who RC leader is or how they get there, as WC has to come first. He agrees to support Hawkfrost. Mudclaw spots another cat eavesdropping on them in the shadows, who flees that area. Mudclaw and Hawkfrost try to catch them but fail to do so. They choose to hope that it was just a cat out for a late night hunt.
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Post by Hollyfall on May 23, 2021 21:44:02 GMT -5
It's admirable in way that Mudclaw genuinely cares about WindClan and wants what's best for it, but yikes, this book is really not painting him in the most favorable of lights (not that it's all too much of a difference from how he was in TNP).
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Post by Jaysnow on May 23, 2021 21:44:58 GMT -5
It's admirable in way that Mudclaw genuinely cares about WindClan and wants what's best for it, but yikes, this book is really not painting him in the most favorable of lights (not that it's all too much of a difference from how he was in TNP). I’m glad honestly, I was totally worried he’d be pained in some martyr-like light.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 23, 2021 21:45:00 GMT -5
God, Mudclaw is such a hypocrite! This isn't new information, but it's no less irritating.
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Post by Hollyfall on May 23, 2021 21:46:55 GMT -5
It's admirable in way that Mudclaw genuinely cares about WindClan and wants what's best for it, but yikes, this book is really not painting him in the most favorable of lights (not that it's all too much of a difference from how he was in TNP). I’m glad honestly, I was totally worried he’d be pained in some martyr-like light. Yeah this was a worry of mine as well. At most I assumed he'd be portrayed as an anti-hero, but clearly that isn't the case here. Reading off your summaries so far, he's being a massive jerk and I'm finding it very hard to find him in the right, let alone actually likable.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 21:47:29 GMT -5
This book is really bumping Mudclaw up my dislike list
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Post by halogen on May 23, 2021 21:59:44 GMT -5
I’m glad honestly, I was totally worried he’d be pained in some martyr-like light. Yeah this was a worry of mine as well. At most I assumed he'd be portrayed as an anti-hero, but clearly that isn't the case here. Reading off your summaries so far, he's being a massive jerk and I'm finding it very hard to find him in the right, let alone actually likable. How exactly would they have portrayed him more favorably without contradicting TNP? He was always going to rebel against his own Clan and be okay with what Hawkfrost offered and was doing, but everyone seems to be talking as if they could have portrayed him in a much better light without contradicting canon.
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Post by Hollyfall on May 23, 2021 22:00:05 GMT -5
Willing to bet that last minute he's going to have a moment of "clarity" where he realizes he was wrong, and it'll happen quite conveniently right before his death which is what's going to allow him to get into StarClan.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2021 22:01:35 GMT -5
Yep, and it will be used an excuse that "See? He wasn't that bad!"
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 23, 2021 22:07:12 GMT -5
Well, I dislike Mudclaw even more and think Tallstar was 5000% right not wanting him to lead.
On the more positive side, Tornear is a total cutie
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 23, 2021 22:22:28 GMT -5
it would be so hilarious if the manga ended with mudclaw in starclan, looking down at how much onestar ruined windclan. lmao.
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Post by Jaysnow on May 23, 2021 22:29:50 GMT -5
The next part/section/act opens up with Mudclaw saying the med cats are already on the way to the Moonpool and soon Onewhisker will get his lives. It is raining. Mudclaw and Hawkfrost have gathered their team of, based off the image, 8, cats. Mudclaw feels as if he is watching some other cat, separate from himself, do these things but tells himself he can’t be weak and that it has to be done. WC needs a strong leader. Mudclaw gives the command to attack. They make no noise to ensure that it is far too late for their enemies to do anything by the time they realize what is happening. Mudclaw attacks Ashfoot. The cats then all battle each other. Getting in and out of the battle is the key. Except then Firestar and TC show up and join the battle to Mudclaw’s horror and dismay. We see Mudclaw and Tornear attacking each other and Onewhisker and Webfoot attacking each other. All Mudclaw can see is WC’s future. Mudclaw calls out Onewhisker’s name before charging at and attacking him. Firestar orders Mudclaw to get away from him and hauls him off Onewhisker. Mudclaw asks Firestar if he thinks WC is his Clan and tells him WC will have a new leader. Mudclaw attacks Firestar while Webfoot cheers him on. But then more TC warriors enter the camp. Mudclaw realizes he is defeated and he and his cats flee to survive. Hawkfrost tells Mudclaw it was Mistyfoot who overheard them and that she told Firestar and TC has defeated them. Mudclaw says they only defeated them for now. Brambleclaw spots Mudclaw and goes after him. Mudclaw can’t outswim or outrun Brambleclaw so he attacks him instead. Brambleclaw calls him a traitor and Mudclaw gets the higher ground but then Hawkfrost attacks Mudclaw. Brambleclaw asks why Hawkfrost helped him and not Mudclaw. Hawkfrost says Mudclaw persuaded him to join him and promised to leave RC in peace if he and other RC cats helped him drive out Onewhisker. Mudclaw tells Hawkfrost to tell Brambleclaw what else he promised.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 23, 2021 22:32:07 GMT -5
Poor Tornear! He deserved a better brother!
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 23, 2021 22:35:13 GMT -5
The next part/section/act opens up with Mudclaw saying the med cats are already on the way to the Moonpool and soon Onewhisker will get his lives. It is raining. Mudclaw and Hawkfrost have gathered their team of, based off the image, 8, cats. Mudclaw feels as if he is watching some other cat, separate from himself, do these things but tells himself he can’t be weak and that it has to be done. WC needs a strong leader. Mudclaw gives the command to attack. They make no noise to ensure that it is far too late for their enemies to do anything by the time they realize what is happening. Mudclaw attacks Ashfoot. The cats then all battle each other. Getting in and out of the battle is the key. Except then Firestar and TC show up and join the battle to Mudclaw’s horror and dismay. We see Mudclaw and Tornear attacking each other and Onewhisker and Webfoot attacking each other. All Mudclaw can see is WC’s future. Mudclaw calls out Onewhisker’s name before charging at and attacking him. Firestar orders Mudclaw to get away from him and hauls him off Onewhisker. Mudclaw asks Firestar if he thinks WC is his Clan and tells him WC will have a new leader. Mudclaw attacks Firestar while Webfoot cheers him on. But then more TC warriors enter the camp. Mudclaw realizes he is defeated and he and his cats flee to survive. Hawkfrost tells Mudclaw it was Mistyfoot who overheard them and that she told Firestar and TC has defeated them. Mudclaw says they only defeated them for now. Brambleclaw spots Mudclaw and goes after him. Mudclaw can’t outswim or outrun Brambleclaw so he attacks him instead. Brambleclaw calls him a traitor and Mudclaw gets the higher ground but then Hawkfrost attacks Mudclaw. Brambleclaw asks why Hawkfrost helped him and not Mudclaw. Hawkfrost says Mudclaw persuaded him to join him and promised to leave RC in peace if he and other RC cats helped him drive out Onewhisker. Mudclaw tells Hawkfrost to tell Brambleclaw what else he promised.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 23, 2021 22:37:03 GMT -5
The next part/section/act opens up with Mudclaw saying the med cats are already on the way to the Moonpool and soon Onewhisker will get his lives. It is raining. Mudclaw and Hawkfrost have gathered their team of, based off the image, 8, cats. Mudclaw feels as if he is watching some other cat, separate from himself, do these things but tells himself he can’t be weak and that it has to be done. WC needs a strong leader. Mudclaw gives the command to attack. They make no noise to ensure that it is far too late for their enemies to do anything by the time they realize what is happening. Mudclaw attacks Ashfoot. The cats then all battle each other. Getting in and out of the battle is the key. Except then Firestar and TC show up and join the battle to Mudclaw’s horror and dismay. We see Mudclaw and Tornear attacking each other and Onewhisker and Webfoot attacking each other. All Mudclaw can see is WC’s future. Mudclaw calls out Onewhisker’s name before charging at and attacking him. Firestar orders Mudclaw to get away from him and hauls him off Onewhisker. Mudclaw asks Firestar if he thinks WC is his Clan and tells him WC will have a new leader. Mudclaw attacks Firestar while Webfoot cheers him on. But then more TC warriors enter the camp. Mudclaw realizes he is defeated and he and his cats flee to survive. Hawkfrost tells Mudclaw it was Mistyfoot who overheard them and that she told Firestar and TC has defeated them. Mudclaw says they only defeated them for now. Brambleclaw spots Mudclaw and goes after him. Mudclaw can’t outswim or outrun Brambleclaw so he attacks him instead. Brambleclaw calls him a traitor and Mudclaw gets the higher ground but then Hawkfrost attacks Mudclaw. Brambleclaw asks why Hawkfrost helped him and not Mudclaw. Hawkfrost says Mudclaw persuaded him to join him and promised to leave RC in peace if he and other RC cats helped him drive out Onewhisker. Mudclaw tells Hawkfrost to tell Brambleclaw what else he promised. Exactly what I was thinking of!
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Post by vectoring34 on May 23, 2021 22:43:22 GMT -5
For those curious, I looked through the battle and found the number of warriors involved.
Webfoot Nightcloud Unnamed Riverclan cat who pounces Brambleclaw Another unnamed Riverclan cat who battles Sandstorm and Mistyfoot(assuming their partner Riverclanner is the same as above, if it's not, then add another Riverclan cat to the count) Unnamed "couple" of Shadowclan cats who are run off by Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw Cedarheart Two unnamed Shadowclan warriors who run towards the Thunderclan camp and get killed by falling into it
So it would be 9 warriors at minimum, unless one or both of the Shadowclan cats that ran from Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw did not actually run from the battle until the very end, which would bring the number down to 7 or 8. So the number is reasonably rather good.
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Post by Jaysnow on May 23, 2021 22:53:25 GMT -5
Mudclaw tells Hawkfrost to tell Brambleclaw how he came to him and offered help in return for the position of WC deputy, Hawkfrost tells Brambleclaw to not listen to him. Mudclaw calls him a liar and escapes Hawkfrost’s trap. He goes the opposite direction and questions why Hawkfrost would betray him like that. He then wonders what else Hawkfrost was lying about. In horror, he asks “StarClan...what have I done”. Lightning hits a tree on the island at the bottom which crashes on Mudclaw.
He wakes up in StarClan. Tallstar approaches him and tells him he is so sorry. Tallstar tells Mudclaw he should have told him and prepared him but that when he finally knew for sure, it was too late and he had to tell Onewhisker before he died. Mudclaw sadly asks if it is then true, that he really asked Onewhisker to be deputy. He asks why he didn’t pick him, as he always tried to be the best deputy he could. Tallstar tells him he was an excellent deputy and would’ve made a powerful leader and never disappointed him but in the new territory WC needs a new kind of leader. Mudclaw realizes this is StarClan and asks why he is here if Onewhisker is the new leader as he attacked his leader and doesn’t belong here. Tallstar tells him what he did was wrong but believed he was acting in the best interest of his Clan. Mudclaw says he still doesn’t understand why he wasn’t the right kind of leader. Tallstar says that new dangers from outside are coming to trouble the Clans and that there must be peace between the Clans if they are to survive. Tallstar shows him how the tree that killed him will make a bridge to the island. Mudclaw says he now sees and understands. Tallstar says the tree is a legacy Mudclaw will leave behind to protect the Clans. Mudclaw says the tree that killed him while rebelling against his leader is hardly his legacy. If it protects the Clans, it’s not because of anything good I did. Tallstar says there is still another way to help WC. Tallstar shows him the Moonpool. He tells them they are not alone, more cats show up all around them. Mudclaw asks why Tallstar is showing this to him, Tallstar tells him to look straight ahead.
He sees Onewhisker, who is getting his name and his lives. Onewhisker sticks his tongue in the water, wakes up in StarClan and sees Mudckaw there, surprised. Mudclaw gives him a life for determination. Mudclaw asks him to protect WC in the way he thinks is best. Mudclaw tells Onewhisker he is sorry for everything and hopes he can forgive him. Onewhisker says he is already forgiven and promises that he will do the best for their Clan. Mudclaw tells him he will watch over him, calling him Onestar and says that together the two of them will do their best to keep WC safe.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 23, 2021 22:57:15 GMT -5
I knew he'd get a last-minute epiphany and I still hate it! Him giving Onestar a life wasn't too surprising, though. Anyway, thanks Jay! And thanks to your friend, too.
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Post by *Faith* on May 23, 2021 22:57:17 GMT -5
Mudclaw was never really on my mind when thinking about which cats gave Onestar his nine lives, but here he is. I'm guessing Mudclaw's was the first life Onestar got.
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