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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:01:19 GMT -5
OOC: Maybe discrimination of any kind should be banned?
IC: Text
It already says it is in the rules. It's just been enforced poorly. if I remember right tomo was the one who allowed anti-lgbt talk I could be wrong tho
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:01:56 GMT -5
@redx Close the thread and temporarily ban any anti-lgbt discussion until a more permanent solution is determined. Any topics made about this issue should be closed. Honestly, we need a stricter hand on OTD. This is why we have problems like this so frequently, because the staff of this site spend too much time planning and hesitating. I know you're trying to help, but right now we need order. Once order is established, then we can civilly work out a solution as a community.you're lana? Yeah. I'm dressed up for Halloween, if you will.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 19, 2016 21:02:15 GMT -5
again, i raise the issue that simply saying "no hate speech against XYZ" will not end well, because of the clear differences in what people believe to qualify as hate speech. is needs to be more specific than that.
also, fade, could you not use gargantuan text? carry on your tirade if you'd like, it's just hurting my eyes a little e_e no offense but like no, im sorry im hurting your eyes i just need it bc im snapchatting the whole thing to a friend and it makes it show up better, theyre laughing their butt off at this homophobes feeble atempts no offense taken, didn't think it'd hurt to ask lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:02:19 GMT -5
anyway if we're ordering staff around now: Sand 🎃 Keep the thread open until it runs its course. Ban discrimination including anti-lgbt talk. Implement mini mods asap. Forget Tomo. He would be included if he tried to be. {i'm sorry if this is rude or anything}
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Post by feign on Oct 19, 2016 21:02:40 GMT -5
It already says it is in the rules. It's just been enforced poorly. if I remember right tomo was the one who allowed anti-lgbt talk I could be wrong tho just change that then ros is the admin who actually manages everything and does the work they should be able to change the rules
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:03:00 GMT -5
@embersanja It ran its course five pages ago.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:03:09 GMT -5
Yeah. I'm dressed up for Halloween, if you will. me too ! my avatar has been changing every 5 days and no one has noticed ): i'm disappointed
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Oct 19, 2016 21:03:16 GMT -5
Wasn't going to close it anyways ^^;.
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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Oct 19, 2016 21:03:56 GMT -5
Don't discriminate. Don't insult the LGBT community, or ANYONE ELSE. It horrifies and sickens me that people are willing to crawl onto an open minded thread, and explain why someone's sexuality is negative in the name of God, or something like that. As a straight person, I can't claim to understand the struggles of these situations, but know that I believe in equality.
There is a difference between discrimination and free speech; one completely contradicts the other. If we have to ban the homophobes, then so be it.
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Post by feign on Oct 19, 2016 21:04:02 GMT -5
anyway if we're ordering staff around now: Sand 🎃 Keep the thread open until it runs its course. Ban discrimination including anti-lgbt talk. Implement mini mods asap. Forget Tomo. He would be included if he tried to be. {i'm sorry if this is rude or anything} agreed
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Post by qυeeɴ oғ ɢнoѕтlιɴɢѕ on Oct 19, 2016 21:04:34 GMT -5
I honestly don't know how to express the anger and anguish I feel. Two amazing forumers are leaving/have left and the fact we are still arguing over the same damn issue is astounding. I grew up Catholic and I grew up learning about a God that, while I believed had abandoned me, loved everyone and created them just as they should be. News flash, your God created me and every other LGBT+ person on this world if that's your belief and so you should love each person just as your God and your Jesus and your Holy Spirit do. Also the fact you take a book written decades or centuries after the stories were first told literally is completely illogical as it was meant to be relavent for that time. The studd in the Bible about how it's a sin to be with another man or woman is because people needed to add to the population and have kids. That point isn't needed anymore in fact there are too many people. You go to a book that is just fables and stories that are meant to teach lessons for people thousands of years ago and yes some of the teachings are relevant but I cut my hair and wear clothes of different fabrics but I'm shouldn't get hanged or stoned for it. You use your religion to defend your homophobia but the fact of the matter is God doesn't want that. God wants you to love everyone equally because we are all his children according to Christianity and any monotheistic religion. Open your eyes to the changing times and stop clinging to a book that was meant for people years ago. Don't use a religion to support beliefs the religion would not back up if you take it at its core. I went to catholic school my whole life so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about either. Just because I'm not catholic anymore doesn't mean I can forget all those years of tests and classes. It's not the religion that tells you to be homophobic either its the people. Okay I'm done I just had to say that. I hate it when people use religion as an excuse because there are honestly good people who live by the actual teachings in their pure form and they get lumped in with the idiots who have forgotten the core teachings.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 19, 2016 21:04:53 GMT -5
again, i raise the issue that simply saying "no hate speech against XYZ" will not end well, because of the clear differences in what people believe to qualify as hate speech. is needs to be more specific than that.
also, fade, could you not use gargantuan text? carry on your tirade if you'd like, it's just hurting my eyes a little e_e "don't express disagreement with, or dislike of, a person's existence" there we go again, we've got a chunk of people here who don't think of it as diagreeing with their "entire existence"
however, that seems like a generally good rule to me. perhaps edited slightly to "don't express disagreement with, or dislike of, a person's existence or lifestyle" that way there's no room for confusion, misconception, or misinterpretation that might be caused by aforementioned belief. that should cover all the bases.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:05:53 GMT -5
@embersanja It ran its course five pages ago. if it had it wouldn't be posted on anymore. while replies and the ill feelings fueling them are abound, the topic should be open. in this case at least, if it's possible to be super brutal with disciplinary actions then that could work too i guess. but at the moment i don't see that being the best option
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:06:43 GMT -5
@embersanja I haven't been on, otherwise I might have lol Sand 🎃 And why are we still planning and hesitating in regards to this issue? Are we establishing some elaborate battle plan or something? You guys are staff members. People are getting bashed. Their feelings are getting hurt, and they're leaving. Do something, instead of just saying that you will. If we don't establish stricter enforcement around here asap, then these problems are going to escalate to the level they were at the end of the WCF.
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Post by Sour Candy on Oct 19, 2016 21:06:56 GMT -5
I wonder if the servers for this site are literally on fire
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Post by tiger beetle on Oct 19, 2016 21:07:29 GMT -5
"don't express disagreement with, or dislike of, a person's existence" there we go again, we've got a chunk of people here who don't think of it as diagreeing with their "entire existence"
however, that seems like a generally good rule to me. perhaps edited slightly to "don't express disagreement with, or dislike of, a person's existence or lifestyle" that way there's no room for confusion, misconception, or misinterpretation that might be caused by aforementioned belief. that should cover all the bases.
…sure, something like that in terms of getting people to follow the rule I can see how the addition would be useful but it should be identity and not lifestyle (or both I guess)
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 19, 2016 21:08:47 GMT -5
can we not start debating about what true christianity and such is on this thread? That's an entirely separate can of worms that we really don't need added to the mix of the current issue. Right now we need to focus on a solution.
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:08:58 GMT -5
@embersanja It ran its course five pages ago. if it had it wouldn't be posted on anymore. while replies and the ill feelings fueling them are abound, the topic should be open. in this case at least, if it's possible to be super brutal with disciplinary actions then that could work too i guess. but at the moment i don't see that being the best option Waiting around isn't going to solve it; clearly tomo is not going to be of any help since he's never here, and idk where roswell is. The fact that people are leaving the forums because of this should be reason enough to shut this whole mess down. People are getting too full of themselves again, just like they did in the WCF. That's the reason for the extreme level of hositility in OTD.
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Post by poppy. on Oct 19, 2016 21:09:57 GMT -5
I agree that we need to have a civil discussion. Instead of using any sort of rude speech perhaps we should come together with a solution on both sides. Then again, I would say that all we can say is that there is to be no discussion of these kinds of issues when it involves any sort of hate or discrimination, which is already not allowed, but apparently it seems that people do not wish to comply with simple measures that are meant to keep the forums safe for all kinds of people. As well, backlash toward the already discriminatory language is not going to help matters, either.
I believe we should have both sides agree to perhaps avoid the issue? I mean, if you do not approve of LGBT+, then perhaps it is best to not partake in LGBT+ threads. As well, those of you made uncomfortable by those who disapprove, try to stay away from their discussions on the subject as well.
I know this is a global social issue, but hate speech (from anyone on either side) is not going to resolve matters. It is a cliché, but you cannot fight fire with fire, and all we are doing is accomplishing self-destruction to the point where we combust.
Fighting is not a good way to handle things and makes everyone look bad.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:10:00 GMT -5
Saint Ambrosef are you posting in orange for halloween?????? I LITERALLY JUST MADE THE CONNECTION I'M SO DENSE Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ i noticed you were gone ! I was trying to tag you in something but i couldn't find any posts from you and i had No Idea what your username was and since your costumed up a search didn't bring anything up, oops. i will remember now tho
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Post by greene on Oct 19, 2016 21:10:17 GMT -5
if it had it wouldn't be posted on anymore. while replies and the ill feelings fueling them are abound, the topic should be open. in this case at least, if it's possible to be super brutal with disciplinary actions then that could work too i guess. but at the moment i don't see that being the best option Waiting around isn't going to solve it; clearly tomo is not going to be of any help since he's never here, and idk where roswell is. The fact that people are leaving the forums because of this should be reason enough to shut this whole mess down. People are getting too full of themselves again, just like they did in the WCF. That's the reason for the extreme level of hositility in OTD. sorry, but people making the best decision for themselves by leaving is "getting too full of themselves"? why does it matter so much that they find the atmosphere hard to deal with and therefore want to leave?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:10:46 GMT -5
Okay, this has gone too far.
Anti LGBTQ Christians: STOP. Our sexualities aren't the only thing that represents us, but we still have our sexualities. Trust me, if God didn't agree with LGBT, I'm pretty sure He would have stopped creating LGBT people by now.
LGBTQ: I think you guy are right. We need to ban LGBT hatred. Actually, we need to ban all discrimination.
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:11:30 GMT -5
@embersanja Yeah I went on vacation for a bit (no duh lana) and the people I stayed with didn't have wifi, so yeah. I popped in at one point to post about an AMBER alert, but that was it and on data.
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Post by Sand 🎃 on Oct 19, 2016 21:11:46 GMT -5
In the past (if you haven't noticed), locking / deleting threads didn't solve the problem. Why? People would create new ones or talk about it on another thread, the drama would continue and was carried on like it was nothing. I've realized that saying "calm down" or "this will be locked" doesn't help in this situation. Why? Because when people are close to a topic like this, it won't work. It's not going to solve ANYTHING. You have to let it run its course until it dies down. Whether that's in 12 minutes or tomorrow afternoon, it doesn't matter. People need to vent and let it out. We've held them back from that and we're giving the chance now.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:12:15 GMT -5
if it had it wouldn't be posted on anymore. while replies and the ill feelings fueling them are abound, the topic should be open. in this case at least, if it's possible to be super brutal with disciplinary actions then that could work too i guess. but at the moment i don't see that being the best option Waiting around isn't going to solve it; clearly tomo is not going to be of any help since he's never here, and idk where roswell is. The fact that people are leaving the forums because of this should be reason enough to shut this whole mess down. People are getting too full of themselves again, just like they did in the WCF. That's the reason for the extreme level of hositility in OTD. I agree about Tomo, Roswell is discussing with mods. I agree that changes need to be implemented, especially with members leaving. I don't think closing this topic specifically will contribute one way or another to that though. If anything it'll make sure both groups feel that their problems are being aired and acknowledged, meaning they're less likely to leave. I wasn't around for the end of the WCF so I can't comment on that ):
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 19, 2016 21:12:35 GMT -5
again, we've got a chunk of people here who don't think of it as diagreeing with their "entire existence"
however, that seems like a generally good rule to me. perhaps edited slightly to "don't express disagreement with, or dislike of, a person's existence or lifestyle" that way there's no room for confusion, misconception, or misinterpretation that might be caused by aforementioned belief. that should cover all the bases.
…sure, something like that in terms of getting people to follow the rule I can see how the addition would be useful but it should be identity and not lifestyle (or both I guess) Both would work! I hope I wasn't misrepresenting myself on here with my earlier posts. My goal all along was to answer the question, "How do we make sure members are all following the same rule?" Cause it'd be hard when members would interpret a rule differently. I've had issues with the varying level of action taken on this issue (i.e. not consistent), mostly due to both forumers and moderators varying opinions on what qualified as "hate." So I thought, if we can all come into agreement on a specific definition of what is not allowed, everyone would be happier.
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Post by Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ on Oct 19, 2016 21:12:41 GMT -5
Waiting around isn't going to solve it; clearly tomo is not going to be of any help since he's never here, and idk where roswell is. The fact that people are leaving the forums because of this should be reason enough to shut this whole mess down. People are getting too full of themselves again, just like they did in the WCF. That's the reason for the extreme level of hositility in OTD. sorry, but people making the best decision for themselves by leaving is "getting too full of themselves"? why does it matter so much that they find the atmosphere hard to deal with and therefore want to leave? I'm talking about the people who think that they have the right to discriminate based on sexuality. They think they can get away with it because of the lack of stricter enforcement around here.
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Post by poppy. on Oct 19, 2016 21:12:43 GMT -5
anyway if we're ordering staff around now: Sand 🎃 Keep the thread open until it runs its course. Ban discrimination including anti-lgbt talk. Implement mini mods asap. Forget Tomo. He would be included if he tried to be. {i'm sorry if this is rude or anything} I agree with all of this. Discriminatory talk should be banned entirely, and the best way to help keep the forums inclusive and safer for everyone would be to implement the junior moderators in order to have more people keeping eyes on the forums. I believe there ought to be at least 2 for OTD, as it is the place with the most problems. This way the senior moderators have the ability to look on a broad spectrum, and the junior moderators can focus on individual details. We need more enforcement of the rules, as well as respect given where it is due (to all people, not just limited to moderators, of course).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 21:13:21 GMT -5
Dᴀɴɴʏ Pʜᴀɴᴛᴏᴍ Your signature seems outdated, just fyi. I don't know if you know that or not. If anyone wants to pm about this or anything else feel free to pm me. A lot of people probably have open pm boxes as well.
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Post by "not" june on Oct 19, 2016 21:14:18 GMT -5
Discrimination is not allowed here but we're seeing that hate speech against the LGBT community ESPECIALLY is prevailant, above all else that's usually what's causing issues. That should be 100% banned. The argument is that people are saying they "disagree" with LGBT ppl, which is super uncomfortable for our community to have to put up with. That goes beyond an opinion
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