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Post by Aqua on Jul 27, 2022 12:26:16 GMT -5
Was Dovewing a good mate to Bumblestripe? Did she treat him well?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 27, 2022 13:13:35 GMT -5
no. she was standoffish and rude to him just bc he wasnt exactly like tigerheart. it was extremely unfair for her to constantly be "sad" that bumblestripe isnt ANYTHING like tigerheart...her expectations were too high and she lashed out at him as a result.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2022 13:31:16 GMT -5
I mean, I don't think she owed him a relationship or kits, but she definitely could have treated him more nicely. At times she was quite rude to him.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 27, 2022 13:51:24 GMT -5
regardless of how Bumblestripe was later written, Dovewing wasn't very nice to him, even though he was never anything but nice to her (at least until Kate decided to ruin him).
like it's not a crime for her to not be "into" him, that's fine. it's just the way she rejects him, leads him on, and keeps comparing him to Tigerheart when they were mates wasn't kind.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 27, 2022 14:17:18 GMT -5
Oh I did some sleuthing.
I always found it weird that TLH and DS gave the impression that Dovewing had moved on from Tigerfart and was content with Bumblestripe, only for BrS to do a one-eighty. I'm guessing that's because these were some of the last books Vicky worked on as the main editor with story control. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate's hatred of Bumblestripe influenced the subsequent decision to split them up in BrS.
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Post by Moonblazer on Jul 27, 2022 15:11:08 GMT -5
Not at all. I was baffled with how genuinely harsh and nasty she could be to him even when she very obviously chose to be mates with him and chose not to break it off or even just simply say “Hey, not interested.”
Nobody owes anybody a relationship or a family, but when you do choose willingly to enter a relationship, it’s really scummy to judge your partner for not being exactly like the person you very obviously haven’t gotten over, use that other person to make yourself feel better, get angry each time they try to just like. Be a good partner to you??? Dovewing kept acting like Bumblestripe was being overbearing but all I saw was a cat wanting to support his mate and clanmate? It’s obscenely cruel to snap at and be angry at and refuse to ever communicate with a cat who isn’t doing every little thing someone else would.
And then you basically dump him and never tell him why or what he supposedly did wrong to deserve being tossed aside like that. And he genuinely tried so many times to just understand what he did wrong and she just completely refused to actually communicate. It made me dislike Dovewing waaaay more.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 27, 2022 15:49:24 GMT -5
Not at all. I was baffled with how genuinely harsh and nasty she could be to him even when she very obviously chose to be mates with him and chose not to break it off or even just simply say “Hey, not interested.” Nobody owes anybody a relationship or a family, but when you do choose willingly to enter a relationship, it’s really scummy to judge your partner for not being exactly like the person you very obviously haven’t gotten over, use that other person to make yourself feel better, get angry each time they try to just like. Be a good partner to you??? Dovewing kept acting like Bumblestripe was being overbearing but all I saw was a cat wanting to support his mate and clanmate? It’s obscenely cruel to snap at and be angry at and refuse to ever communicate with a cat who isn’t doing every little thing someone else would. And then you basically dump him and never tell him why or what he supposedly did wrong to deserve being tossed aside like that. And he genuinely tried so many times to just understand what he did wrong and she just completely refused to actually communicate. It made me dislike Dovewing waaaay more. i cant stand when people make a big fuss over bumblestripe and claim he was "too overbearing." in the beginning, before he was completely ruined, all he did was ask her to hang out and get to know each other better. how is that "overbearing" ? its just normal courtship if u ask me...is it a crime to want to know ur crush better or
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Post by Moonblazer on Jul 27, 2022 16:34:14 GMT -5
Not at all. I was baffled with how genuinely harsh and nasty she could be to him even when she very obviously chose to be mates with him and chose not to break it off or even just simply say “Hey, not interested.” Nobody owes anybody a relationship or a family, but when you do choose willingly to enter a relationship, it’s really scummy to judge your partner for not being exactly like the person you very obviously haven’t gotten over, use that other person to make yourself feel better, get angry each time they try to just like. Be a good partner to you??? Dovewing kept acting like Bumblestripe was being overbearing but all I saw was a cat wanting to support his mate and clanmate? It’s obscenely cruel to snap at and be angry at and refuse to ever communicate with a cat who isn’t doing every little thing someone else would. And then you basically dump him and never tell him why or what he supposedly did wrong to deserve being tossed aside like that. And he genuinely tried so many times to just understand what he did wrong and she just completely refused to actually communicate. It made me dislike Dovewing waaaay more. i cant stand when people make a big fuss over bumblestripe and claim he was "too overbearing." in the beginning, before he was completely ruined, all he did was ask her to hang out and get to know each other better. how is that "overbearing" ? its just normal courtship if u ask me...is it a crime to want to know ur crush better or God forbid he act like a mate to a cat who he believed genuinely liked him in return, like there's so many times that people get mad that he couldn't read Dovewing's mind everytime she snapped at him for the most mundane things. He tries to communicate, he gets snapped at. He tries to help her when she's clearly struggling with things, he gets snapped at. He tells Dovewing he is happy for her and is just glad she is safe when she waltzes into camp with Shadowclan's leader and their kits to basically be rubbed in his face, he still gets treated like an Ashfur level incel. I'm sorry, but he at least deserved to be told why he was dumped instead of being in the dark and expected to believe it was all his fault.
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Post by Punkpaw on Jul 27, 2022 17:14:00 GMT -5
No. It doesn't make him or his future treatment of her any less shit, but no, she wasn't fair to him.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 27, 2022 17:29:42 GMT -5
i cant stand when people make a big fuss over bumblestripe and claim he was "too overbearing." in the beginning, before he was completely ruined, all he did was ask her to hang out and get to know each other better. how is that "overbearing" ? its just normal courtship if u ask me...is it a crime to want to know ur crush better or God forbid he act like a mate to a cat who he believed genuinely liked him in return, like there's so many times that people get mad that he couldn't read Dovewing's mind everytime she snapped at him for the most mundane things. He tries to communicate, he gets snapped at. He tries to help her when she's clearly struggling with things, he gets snapped at. He tells Dovewing he is happy for her and is just glad she is safe when she waltzes into camp with Shadowclan's leader and their kits to basically be rubbed in his face, he still gets treated like an Ashfur level incel. I'm sorry, but he at least deserved to be told why he was dumped instead of being in the dark and expected to believe it was all his fault. i wouldnt be surprised if dovewing never speaks to him again. he gets no explanation, only speculation and assumptions. now bumblestripe is going to question his entire young adult life (which he spent a lot of it with dovewing). he's going to assume or question if dovewing was using him, cheating on him, etc. how depressing that must be. to never get closure from the girl who basically chewed and spat u out for nothing. all bc u werent like her dream man who she ran off to be with. bumblestripe had zero clue she used to have a thing with him until he barged his way into thunderclan camp in AVOS.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jul 27, 2022 18:05:24 GMT -5
Hell no. She was mean to him for little to no reason. And yet the ONE time Bumblestrip stands up for himself, the fans act like he's in the wrong. Smh.
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Post by Willowbreeze on Jul 27, 2022 21:14:40 GMT -5
Totally not. She was rude to him for practically no reason. I kinda felt sorry for Bumblestipe.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Jul 27, 2022 22:36:14 GMT -5
i cant stand when people make a big fuss over bumblestripe and claim he was "too overbearing." in the beginning, before he was completely ruined, all he did was ask her to hang out and get to know each other better. how is that "overbearing" ? its just normal courtship if u ask me...is it a crime to want to know ur crush better or God forbid he act like a mate to a cat who he believed genuinely liked him in return, like there's so many times that people get mad that he couldn't read Dovewing's mind everytime she snapped at him for the most mundane things. He tries to communicate, he gets snapped at. He tries to help her when she's clearly struggling with things, he gets snapped at. He tells Dovewing he is happy for her and is just glad she is safe when she waltzes into camp with Shadowclan's leader and their kits to basically be rubbed in his face, he still gets treated like an Ashfur level incel. I'm sorry, but he at least deserved to be told why he was dumped instead of being in the dark and expected to believe it was all his fault. THIS
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jul 27, 2022 23:38:26 GMT -5
No. And she should of gave him a firm, concise and decisive answer from the beginning that she wasn’t interested. Instead of stringing him alone for so long. And having him exhaust so much emotional energy and resources into a relationship that was doomed to burn the start. Honestly if she would of been conscientious, and honest with herself from the beginning could of avoided a ton unnecessary grief for the both of them. And they both could of diverted time and energy into things that would ultimately lead to happiness. Instead of wasting both their times. If Dovewing wouldn’t of been dragging Bumblestripe through the mud and getting his hopes up, he could of moved on to a she-cat that appreciated him and had a family of his own by now, instead of pointlessly pursuing a deadend relationship. Heck if Dovewing never lead him on, and used him as a scratching post, they both probably would of found the happiness they wanted. Instead Dovewing is sitting pretty in Shadowclan, and Bumblestripe is seated at a table meant for 2, with a lonely burning candle in a vacant room, after all his painstaking devotion and sacrifice, time and effort into a relationship were thrown out the window and all for nought. life can be cruel huh?
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Post by leafpool official on Jul 28, 2022 0:48:16 GMT -5
i think she was right to act that way! bumblestripe was basically acting selfish throughout the whole thing and he wasn't considering dovewing's emotional needs. dovewing shouldnt have pushed herself to be in thunderclan & be with him and i'm happy she's in shadowclan now <3
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Jul 28, 2022 6:18:43 GMT -5
No, and I'm honestly tired of when people excuse her behavior and how she treated him (and also Tigerheart for that matter in THS). Dovewing's behavior was toxic, and arguably borderline abusive when it came to either of her mates considering she was (probably unknowingly) being horridly manipulative and meanspirited, especially unprovoked. Even when it's from her pov, she tries to justify her actions in her head, but it just makes her come off as worse because we see exactly how she thinks and behaves.
She constantly compared Bumblestripe to Tigerheart, how he was never good enough, and how she only got with him out of convenience and not because she actually felt the same way about him as he did her. She used him, which was honestly just gross. He was nothing but patient with her, kind, and even admired and respected her as a clanmate. Interestingly enough, when she did treat him like crap, even AFTER knowing how he felt, it came off as her doing it on purpose because "how dare he like me" narrative, hence why he was upset after she snapped at him during the gathering.
When she used him for comfort, he was okay with it, when she became mates with him, he supported her, and when she was happy, it made him happy. But in return she was cold, stand-offish, and eventually tossed him aside with no explanation. She knows she should talk to him, and give them both closure but she also knowingly avoids this conversation because she's too cowardly. And then uses any other reasons to avoid him, even taking advantage of Twigpaw going missing, just to spend time with Tigerheart.
Fast forward, she goes missing, everyone is fearing for her safety, wasting resources and trying to find her, only for her to late just show up with the new ShadowClan leader's kits. Bumblestripe is obviously broken by this, but still manages to say he's happy she was okay, and he was, he was relieved because he cared about her. Crazy concept, I know. But at the end of the day, she's a traitor to the clan, she's a selfish ex-mate, and honestly, I'm glad he's moved on from her since. And that doesn't make him an incel, just because he rightfully called her out for her fickle behavior. Ya know when she took advantage of ShadowClan's medicine cat being sick, so she could see her family again, despite what Bramblestar literally told her before she left. She made her choice, she needs to stick with it. And Bumblestripe, along with others, was right to say something about her unloyal tendencies.
And as it's already been pointed out, in the end, Dovewing is just sitting in ShadowClan as the "leaders mate" while Bumblestripe is now changed from the sweet person he used to be. I mean when someone takes advantage of you for so long, and practically throws your relationship in your face in the end, I'm not surprised. He deserves better, at least better than Dovewing for sure.
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Post by Bristleflight-bristlefrost! on Jul 28, 2022 8:41:09 GMT -5
I'm im a strong sniper of bumble+rose
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 13:41:21 GMT -5
This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her.
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Post by Aqua on Jul 28, 2022 13:49:36 GMT -5
This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her. You aren't alone. I'm one of the Dovewing fans. I see her as a lonely cat with no one to talk to. Jay is focused on the prophecy and worried about the Clan while Lion is worried about Cinder. Ivy is avoiding her because of jealousy. Dove has always been attached to her friends. She cares about cats outside of her clan. She chose her new family over her clanmates to focus on herself and be happy. I say good for her, honestly. The only thing wrong that I see was that she was breaking the warrior code and didn't treat Bumblestripe right, but I'm glad she eventually broke up with him and left the Clan because she didn't want to lie anymore. Dovewing cares about her friends and family. Her family accepted that she's gone and and I'm glad she's happy with her new family. Good for her, she deserves it. The prophecy ruined everything in her ThunderClan life, I'm glad she started over to have a new life in ShadowClan with her kits and mate.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 13:57:15 GMT -5
This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her. You aren't alone. I'm one of the Dovewing fans. I see her as a lonely cat with no one to talk to. Jay is focused on the prophecy and worried about the Clan while Lion is worried about Cinder. Ivy is avoiding her because of jealousy. Dove has always been attached to her friends. She cares about cats outside of her clan. She chose her new family over her clanmates to focus on herself and be happy. I say good for her, honestly. The only thing wrong that I see was that she was breaking the warrior code and didn't treat Bumblestripe right, but I'm glad she eventually broke up with him and left the Clan because she didn't want to lie anymore. Dovewing cares about her friends and family. Her family accepted that she's gone and and I'm glad she's happy with her new family. Good for her, she deserves it. The prophecy ruined everything in her ThunderClan life, I'm glad she started over to have a new life in ShadowClan with her kits and mate. Thank you for finally bringing some positivity to this thread. To be honest, even if Dovewing treated Bumblestripe unfairly, I'd still like her. In fact, I'd possibly like her more because it adds a flaw to her character and I'm a real sucker for realistic, flawed protagonists.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 28, 2022 15:52:22 GMT -5
She chose her new family over her clanmates to focus on herself and be happy. I say good for her, honestly. The only thing wrong that I see was that she was breaking the warrior code and didn't treat Bumblestripe right, but I'm glad she eventually broke up with him and left the Clan because she didn't want to lie anymore. that's what everyone is saying, though. like that's what this thread is about. her treatment of Bumblestripe. i also dont think most people are mad that she wanted to be happy and eventually settled down with Tigerheart. her motivation was perfectly fine. the issue everyone takes is how she went about it, and that the narrative never really criticizes her for it - that's why a lot of people don't like Dovewing, not because she "wanted to be happy". This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her. critcizing Dovewing for her treatment of Bumblestripe doesn't mean dislike for her entire character. but this thread is about, well, her treatment of Bumblestripe, and most people agree she was unfair to him.
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Post by 🌸🐥silvermoon2🐥🌸 on Jul 28, 2022 16:03:34 GMT -5
No. And she should of gave him a firm, concise and decisive answer from the beginning that she wasn’t interested. Instead of stringing him alone for so long. And having him exhaust so much emotional energy and resources into a relationship that was doomed to burn the start. Honestly if she would of been conscientious, and honest with herself from the beginning could of avoided a ton unnecessary grief for the both of them. And they both could of diverted time and energy into things that would ultimately lead to happiness. Instead of wasting both their times. If Dovewing wouldn’t of been dragging Bumblestripe through the mud and getting his hopes up, he could of moved on to a she-car that appreciated him and had a family of his own by now, instead of pointlessly pursuing a deadend relationship. Heck if Dovewing never lead him on, and used him as a scratching post, they both probably would of found the happiness they wanted. Instead Dovewing is sitting pretty in Shadowclan, and Bumblestripe is seated at a table meant for 2, with a lonely burning candle in a vacant room, after all his painstaking devotion and sacrifice, time and effort into a relationship were thrown out the window and all for nought. life can be cruel huh? Yes, I totally agree! Instead of being so rude and unfair to him she should have just said that he was agreat cat but she just wasnt into him but they could still be friends. And yes, imagine how it must have felt for Bumblestripe to see the cat he loved happily in ShadowClan with her new mate who didnt even give him an explanation!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2022 16:13:53 GMT -5
This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her. critcizing Dovewing for her treatment of Bumblestripe doesn't mean dislike for her entire character. but this thread is about, well, her treatment of Bumblestripe, and most people agree she was unfair to him. I mean, that's true. It's just that the vibe I'm getting from a lot of these posts is less of criticising Dovewing and more of bashing her.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jul 28, 2022 19:39:30 GMT -5
This part of the story is honestly just all a blur to me, so I can't give my opinion on this, but all I can say is that I am astounded by how much crap Dovewing is getting in this thread. But oh well. I guess I'll be alone in liking her. You aren't alone. I'm one of the Dovewing fans. I see her as a lonely cat with no one to talk to. Jay is focused on the prophecy and worried about the Clan while Lion is worried about Cinder. Ivy is avoiding her because of jealousy. Dove has always been attached to her friends. She cares about cats outside of her clan. She chose her new family over her clanmates to focus on herself and be happy. I say good for her, honestly. The only thing wrong that I see was that she was breaking the warrior code and didn't treat Bumblestripe right, but I'm glad she eventually broke up with him and left the Clan because she didn't want to lie anymore. Dovewing cares about her friends and family. Her family accepted that she's gone and and I'm glad she's happy with her new family. Good for her, she deserves it. The prophecy ruined everything in her ThunderClan life, I'm glad she started over to have a new life in ShadowClan with her kits and mate. No ones criticizing Dovewing because she wanted to be happy. She’s criticized because she’s a arrogant, narcissistic self-entitled mess that has never learned to be perceptive and conscious of anyone else’s feelings besides her own, except on very few occasions. And the egregious and selfish way she handled the whole situation with Bumblestripe. She knew he had fallen hard for her, and she didn’t reciprocate his feelings and interest, yet consciously decided to beguile him for over 3 years(which is the equivalent of 20+ human years, give or take), and gave false hope of there being a possible relationship between them. Now Dovewing is by no means obligated to compromise her own happiness for someone else. However, the bare minimum she needs to do is at least be conscientious and show some damn consideration and decorum when dealing with others feelings. Which she clearly expressed none for Bumblestripe. She belittled him, compared him to her ex, snapped at him repeatedly for being empathetic, supportive, complimenting her etc. basically anything he did around her that’s considered normal for partners to engage in, she got indignant with him over. She knowingly used and manipulated him out of convenience for her own benefit, and no one else’s. She mistreated him when they were together, and thought of him as an inferior option over Tigerheart. Was meanspirited anytime he behaved like a normal mate to her, and dropped him later without any explanation. Now one could argue that he should of moved on after their breakup. But letting go of someone that you deeply care for isn’t exactly easy. And in SS it’s heavily implied that they had prior conversations over working through their problems(That Bumblestripe has never been told about) and rekindling their relationship were they left off and attempting a second time to make it work. Which would make it incredibly difficult for him move from her, if she’s giving him false pretense and signals that there’s a possibility it could work. Bumblestripe’s not at fault for devoting so much time and energy in the pursuit of something to fulfill his own happiness. And There’s nothing wrong with him chasing after her, when she painted it as a possible reality, when in actuality it was just a mirage intended to temporarily fill her own void. But of course he wasn’t made aware of that until she waltzed into camp with Tigerheart and their kits. and her leaving to join Shadowclan and subsequently stop living in lies. Doesn’t put her on a clean slate or erase all the lies she’s already woven. And her leaving wasn’t to quit lying, it was a cowardly and negligent abandonment of any responsibility for the mess she made, and a scapegoat to not have to take accountability for damage control. And of course to escape the repercussions of her actions. She wants a clean slate. Then she needs to take a few CC’s of humility, take some accountability for her mistakes. And make some actual amends with the people shes hurt.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 29, 2022 7:15:42 GMT -5
critcizing Dovewing for her treatment of Bumblestripe doesn't mean dislike for her entire character. but this thread is about, well, her treatment of Bumblestripe, and most people agree she was unfair to him. I mean, that's true. It's just that the vibe I'm getting from a lot of these posts is less of criticising Dovewing and more of bashing her. i’m curious, what would you define as “bashing” to distinguish it from criticism?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 7:28:46 GMT -5
I mean, that's true. It's just that the vibe I'm getting from a lot of these posts is less of criticising Dovewing and more of bashing her. i’m curious, what would you define as “bashing” to distinguish it from criticism? I meant criticism clearly influenced by dislike for the character. Sorry if it was confusing
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 29, 2022 7:38:39 GMT -5
i’m curious, what would you define as “bashing” to distinguish it from criticism? I meant criticism clearly influenced by dislike for the character. Sorry if it was confusing Hmm. I guess there’s two ways to look at it: (a) people’s criticisms of Dovewing arises from personal dislike, or ( people dislike Dovewing because of their criticisms of her. For me, personally, most of the comments here seem to be the latter rather than the former.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2022 7:47:09 GMT -5
I meant criticism clearly influenced by dislike for the character. Sorry if it was confusing Hmm. I guess there’s two ways to look at it: (a) people’s criticisms of Dovewing arises from personal dislike, or (b ) people dislike Dovewing because of their criticisms of her. For me, personally, most of the comments here seem to be the latter rather than the former. Well, I didn't mean it as in criticism spawned solely from people's dislike of Dovewing, I meant it as in a lot of comments here seem to be criticising her in such a way that their dislike of her is clear. Again, sorry if I was wording it confusingly.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 29, 2022 9:07:15 GMT -5
Hmm. I guess there’s two ways to look at it: (a) people’s criticisms of Dovewing arises from personal dislike, or (b ) people dislike Dovewing because of their criticisms of her. For me, personally, most of the comments here seem to be the latter rather than the former. Well, I didn't mean it as in criticism spawned solely from people's dislike of Dovewing, I meant it as in a lot of comments here seem to be criticising her in such a way that their dislike of her is clear. Again, sorry if I was wording it confusingly. Oh, I see. It just surprised you?
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Post by Moonblazer on Jul 29, 2022 10:40:55 GMT -5
I think people are allowed to dislike Dovewing because of her treatment of another cat who did not deserve to be treated like that. I’m sorry, but criticism of someone treating a partner they willingly chose to be with is not some ploy to bash a character. After all, we dislike how Rainflower treated Crookedstar. We dislike how Russetfur treated Berrynose when he was a kit. Calling out a character’s actions is justified, especially in a thread that specifically asks if we think Dovewing was fair to him, which she 100 percent was not. If I had a partner who treated me like she treated Bumblestripe, I know I would be way more furious than he ever was.
Nobody is out here saying they don’t like Dovewing, because I’m sure a ton of people commenting do like her, but in this specific instance, she was an awful cat who treated another cat who never once deserved it like garbage.
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