Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jul 18, 2022 1:23:27 GMT -5
LH was good? I’m not gonna debate because everyone is welcome to their own opinion of course but I personally disliked it. It’s not SQH-level bad, but..it made me angry while reading. It was good because it kept everyone in character. Not to mention also showed different relationship dynamics with background characters that we didn't get much nowadays in recent books (As of TBC at the time). It was well written, regardless of one's personal opinion on the lead role, just like Crowfeather's Trial. It did it's job accordingly. In comparison, SqH is the opposite. The narrative was so heavily biased toward Squirrelflight, it made her a very unreliable pov, and skewered other characters to make her seem like she could never be in the wrong. The level of sympathizing that was forced on readers in that SE was annoying, which is why most put it at their low picks when it comes to best written. THS has a similar issue because of how overglorified Tigerheart was so him becoming leader could be justified. People want Onestar to remain in character, but the others as well. The worry here is that Onestar will get the SqH treatment, and readers will have to forcibly sympathize with him in situations that would be nonsensical, while they skewer other characters to make him seem more justified. LH still showed that Leopardstar did terrible things while she was younger, but the difference between her mentally thinking she's justified at the time, vs Squirrelflight, is because she has self-realization. And other characters aren't villainized to make her look better either, she is both morally challenged by outside forces, and eventually herself. We never get this with Squirrel. I've never viewed Onestar as a villain. To say that would be nonsensical. But he is a character that eventually developed into an antagonistic role, he wasn't born like that, it was a development. I personally want him to stay in character, and not have him sharply curve left or right for the sake of a biased pov. He's supposed to be morally gray. absolutely agree with everything you’ve said. And all this succinctly summarizes my personal peeves with storytelling writing in general in modern times (not just warriors). Writers these days deliberately write stories with a intended narrative motive, whether to make some political or morality statement etc, and paint however many perspectives or angles to the story there are in a obscenely negative fashion, so that the reader only has 1 choice to make. Like take SqH for example, when she drops her infamous “Don’t you love me anymore?” Line. The narrative is heavily jaded, and it’s painfully obvious the reader is supposed to take her seriously, and empathize with her…problem is the lack of context or any foreshadowing to actually legitimize her accusation between BrS up to that point, in fact the opposite. We have Bramblestar’s Storm’s manga and TAQ Bonus scene showing him being a supportive, caring and empathetic mate, and what little bits we get in AVoS portrays them as mutually supportive, healthy and unproblematic. And the narrative portrays Bramblestar’s rather dismissive response as being cold, uncaring and invalidating of her concerns, when in actuality his dismissiveness of her claim is likely due to his bewilderment, and lack of a reason to take her seriously. As her lament isn’t simplistic in meaning, but carries immense gravity and complexity, and heavily implies an underlying problem with Bramblestar that’s been perpetually getting worse over a indefinite period of time, which there’s no context to reference suggesting such. I personally have preference to storytelling that maintains a unbiased, moral ambiguity to its characters, plots etc. and allows the reader liberty to personal interpretation and the choice to pick which side their vouching for. and doesn’t forcibly shove a particular message/view down my throat. I mean that just takes the joy out reading imo.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jul 18, 2022 1:41:08 GMT -5
I'm not looking forward to this. All WindClan based SEs have been low in my ranking, along with the ShadowClan SEs. I would rather they not give more insight on characters we know well enough. The stories they tell are extremely boring.
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Post by Rainfire on Jul 18, 2022 2:18:28 GMT -5
I liked it a lot!
I'm loving all the characters(well Mudclaw was admittedly getting on my nerves in the first chapter but that's just a case of Mudclaw being Mudclaw lol)and I'm enjoying Onepaw's POV! I can't wait to see how it evolves as he gets older and the story progresses! And it looks like we've already gotten our first glimpse of Smoke...I'm SO excited to see what she's like and how OneSmoke began!
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 18, 2022 8:09:01 GMT -5
i think the term people are looking for is unreliable narrator. SqH was definitely that, whereas LH (regardless of whether the story was enjoyable) had consistently reliable narration.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 18, 2022 10:15:43 GMT -5
One of my hopes for this SE is that i hope they expand on Onestar's relationship with Whitetail and his daughter Heathertail. I really wish Harespring and Kestrelflight could also be his kits, though.
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Post by halogen on Jul 18, 2022 10:55:17 GMT -5
I don't think taking on Scourge necessarily contradicts him being cowardly in other ways, he's just someone who is brave in the face of physical danger but cowardly with regards to social situations/his reputation/how his Clan sees him. That said I do think what happened with Mudclaw had a big effect on him, understandably, and he wouldn't have become what he was if it wasn't for that. just wanted to bring up how im a mudclaw defender and people dont like it when we say "if mudclaw wasnt cheated out of his rightful position, he wouldnt have been as bad as he was" but then i see "if mudclaw didnt rebel, onestar could have become a better leader" from what u said and i find that interesting. i guess both characters had to be radically amped up for plot and drama?? idk. Saying that a character was influenced by circumstance to act the way they did isn't the same as excusing their actions. That goes for Onestar and Mudclaw and everyone else. Like yes, Mudclaw would never have turned against his own Clan if he wasn't thrown out of the deputyship under suspicious circumstances. That doesn't mean that he was justified in reacting that way when it did happen. Likewise Onestar probably wouldn't have been as obsessed with distancing himself from ThunderClan if some of his Clanmates hadn't wanted him dead because of it and probably wouldn't have, say, attacked ThunderClan in Eclipse, that doesn't mean it was right for him to do so or he couldn't have reacted better to the circumstances he was in. Or Mapleshade would have been just a normal warrior if she wasn't exiled and her kits died, that in no way justifies her murdering cats. I hope the fandom hasn't gotten to a point where if you don't declare a character was born evil and would have done all the bad things they did even if nothing bad ever happened to them, you are justifying their actions and saying they did nothing wrong.
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Bisexual
#FF00EC
Name Colour
BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Jul 18, 2022 12:18:56 GMT -5
After reading the OC excerpt, I'm quite excited to read it in full once the book comes out despite Onestar being my least favorite character at the moment. His PoV here is interesting so far. Mudclaw's characterization seems consistent considering that he has always been written rather aggressive even back during TPB and was usually opposed towards outsiders so any possible discussions that might be happening about his character being "ruined to make Onestar look better" or something like this just don't add up to me in this regard.
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Post by *Faith* on Jul 18, 2022 17:00:32 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out who Sorrelshine's kits and mate are. Reading the scene again, one of the kits is noted as pure white. I guess I glossed over that earlier. Still though, the timeline doesn't match for Whitetail or else she would've already been a warrior in ITW. Problem is, there are no other white cats listed in the timeline. So I guess this could be a new character just like Emberdawn was for LH. Her mate could be Flytail.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jul 19, 2022 5:10:28 GMT -5
Oatwhisker is an entirely new character, why didn't they make him a she-cat? Oatwhisker has always been a tom. he appears as an elder in dawn. in my unfinished windclan headcanon tree, i have him as the son of appledawn x cloudrunner, and the brother to rushtail (who also appeared as an elder in TNP). Geez, I need to do a reread because I don't remember him at all. Funny that you mention it, I actually have Cloudchaser-x-Dawnstripe as the parents of Crowfur and Darkfoot in my headcanon tree. Oatwhisker and Rushtail work too. As long as Dawnstripe has some kits.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Jul 19, 2022 5:20:12 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out who Sorrelshine's kits and mate are. Reading the scene again, one of the kits is noted as pure white. I guess I glossed over that earlier. Still though, the timeline doesn't match for Whitetail or else she would've already been a warrior in ITW. Problem is, there are no other white cats listed in the timeline. So I guess this could be a new character just like Emberdawn was for LH. Her mate could be Flytail. I forgot to mention that. I don't really see why they would take the time to point out a particular kit unless they'll be important going forward. I will be shocked if they turn out to be a rando.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 19, 2022 13:13:24 GMT -5
Oatwhisker has always been a tom. he appears as an elder in dawn. in my unfinished windclan headcanon tree, i have him as the son of appledawn x cloudrunner, and the brother to rushtail (who also appeared as an elder in TNP). Geez, I need to do a reread because I don't remember him at all. Funny that you mention it, I actually have Cloudchaser-x-Dawnstripe as the parents of Crowfur and Darkfoot in my headcanon tree. Oatwhisker and Rushtail work too. As long as Dawnstripe has some kits. thats a good headcanon too. i am very simple when i come up with mine. if the cats look similar or alike, they r related (hence why dawnstripe's kits r light in color like her lol)
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Heterosexual
#64c1a0
Name Colour
𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙
𝙼𝚘𝚘𝚛 𝚁𝚞𝚗𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 𝚒𝚜 𝚜𝚞𝚙𝚎𝚛𝚒𝚘𝚛.
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Post by 𝙵𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚎𝚝𝚜𝚝𝚎𝚙 on Jul 19, 2022 13:33:33 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the excerpt! Looking forward to reading the book when it comes out.
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Post by stupidflower on Jul 26, 2022 11:23:33 GMT -5
Idk if anyone else made the connection, but Tallstar initially standing up for the kittypets to Mudclaw, saying that they could be capable, makes me think that he was thinking of Jake, which is cute
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Post by leafpool official on Jul 28, 2022 1:18:52 GMT -5
LOVE we're being introduced to smoke so early on HATE the family tree mess and heatherbreeze being related
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Post by BobTheHuman on Jul 28, 2022 4:03:39 GMT -5
LOVE we're being introduced to smoke so early on HATE the family tree mess and heatherbreeze being related And the fact that Lionblaze out of ALL WINDCLAN CATS he choose his 2nd aunty 😟 [just pointing it out no reason]
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Post by leafpool official on Jul 28, 2022 10:52:08 GMT -5
LOVE we're being introduced to smoke so early on HATE the family tree mess and heatherbreeze being related And the fact that Lionblaze out of ALL WINDCLAN CATS he choose his 2nd aunty 😟 [just pointing it out no reason] YIKES. i hope they don't make everyone double related oh my god
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