Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jul 10, 2022 18:10:41 GMT -5
As the title suggests. What are some outrageous stances, opinions or justifications have you heard some people of the fandom make?. Not referencing to more obvious opinions, that are held by a substantial portion of the fandom, or even more fringed or minority stances that you simply disagree with.
I’m talking about arguments that you’ve seen been made by people, that are so incredulous, and out of left field, and absent of logical reasoning or foundation, or couldn’t begin to comprehend how the person came to the conclusion, or fabricate a counterargument or rebuttal due to how dumbfounded you were.
One I have off the top of my head, being most recent. Was someone aggressively, not only excusing, but fully justifying Clear Sky’s mistreatment of Jagged Peak merely because they didn’t like Jagged Peak as a character. And that contemplating killing Birch and Alder after brutally massacring their mother Misty, was completely OOC for him, and therefore not something he’d normally do, so it’s completely fine to let him of the hook, and not make him take accountability for his atrocious actions.
Not exactly sure what kind of logic one most apply to deem the mistreatment or neglect of someone, especially a family member, as morally acceptable, just because you find them intolerable or dislike them, fictional or otherwise, or how the killing of children can be passed over so hastily. But needless to say conversation didn’t ensue for very long before I just simply dropped from the chatroom.
anyways, what are some outlandish arguments others have heard while engaging in various sects of the fandom?
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Post by Aqua on Jul 10, 2022 18:19:56 GMT -5
The entire fandom justifying Ivypool a couple years off used to piss me off so much. I have never seen a character justified with every single thing, and the most ridiculous one I've seen was this one:
Ivypool didn't want to do her job.
I debated with Ivypool a long time ago, and I was mad at her for not doing her job she was supposed to do. I won't call names, but someone said "it's because she didn't want to do it". Are. You. ****ing. Kidding. Me?
What a lame excuse.
You need to work to support your bills and/or your family. You can't not work just because "you didn't feel like doing it". That's irresponsible, and it disappointed me incredibly when Ivypool refused to report what she'd learned. Sure, there were some things she couldn't figure out, but there were things that Ivypool did figure out that she refused to report.
I've had mostly justified arguments with her, but this one made me roll my eyes. It was pathetic, and ridiculous.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 10, 2022 18:32:10 GMT -5
Back on the official forums people used to make topics where the gist was someone would say a character they hated and the op would try to convince that person why they shouldn’t hate that character. One of them was justifying Rainflower’s behavior, and I really wish I remember what they said to defend her lol. Edit: I think the basics of liking Rainflower boils down to liking her prideful personality. I found this on the way back machine hinting that, funnily when NightxCrow was the most controversial characters and nobody cared about Brambleclaw or Squirrelflight, how times have changed: web.archive.org/web/20130911082003/http://forums.warriorcats.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2341073/m/37410338042
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Post by cable on Jul 10, 2022 18:39:03 GMT -5
once saw somebody claim mudclaw would never start a battle over his ego, wish i could remember when that was lol
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Post by twigfrost on Jul 10, 2022 18:50:34 GMT -5
on blogclan, i read a post claiming that twigbranch should’ve just given finleap kits, and how he was in the right because he (willingly) left his clan. yikes.
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Post by Hollyfall on Jul 10, 2022 18:54:29 GMT -5
This is waaay back on the old forums and fandom, and prior to TBC, but the insane amount of Ashfur apologists who genuinely believed that Squirrelflight was a lying, manipulative, and selfish character who only used Ashfur as an emotional crutch when she had an argument with Brambleclaw. And that Ashfur was misunderstood, only "loved too much", only did what he did because of the heartbreak, and would have been a better mate to her than Bramblestar. Essentially it was Ashfur fans who despised Squirrelflight and Bramblestar.
Naturally, in the years since and especially with TBC, those voices have silenced.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jul 10, 2022 19:00:12 GMT -5
The whataboutisms! Not even towards a specific character, really, I mean this in general and it drives me nuts whenever I see it be used! I see this especially with the likes of Thistleclaw and Mudclaw, as though mentioning other cats who've had similar experiences or bring up something that seems like a double standard but actually isn't will somehow strengthen the argument.
Also, that one Rainflower defense post from ages ago!
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Post by Aqua on Jul 10, 2022 19:10:27 GMT -5
The whataboutisms! Not even towards a specific character, really, I mean this in general and it drives me nuts whenever I see it be used! I see this especially with the likes of Thistleclaw and Mudclaw, as though mentioning other cats who've had similar experiences or bring up something that seems like a double standard but actually isn't will somehow strengthen the argument. Also, that one Rainflower defense post from ages ago! Rainflower hurt her son because she was too prideful *winkwink*
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Post by Rainfire on Jul 10, 2022 19:10:29 GMT -5
I remember seeing people on the old forums defend Rainflower by saying that it was CROOKEDKIT'S fault that she neglected and abused him because "Crookedkit was the one who snuck out of camp and broke his jaw!!!! it's his fault that Rainflower went mad with grief!!!!!"
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Post by cable on Jul 10, 2022 19:16:49 GMT -5
Also, that one Rainflower defense post from ages ago!
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 10, 2022 19:36:50 GMT -5
Mudclaw defense squads were incredible to behold.
Sleekwhisker's defenders during her brief period as a girlboss icon were also hilarious.
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Post by rabbit on Jul 10, 2022 19:51:11 GMT -5
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Jul 10, 2022 19:57:51 GMT -5
i dont even know if i've read it before, but i wish i could. it sounds like a blast /joking
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Post by rabbit on Jul 10, 2022 20:05:58 GMT -5
i dont even know if i've read it before, but i wish i could. it sounds like a blast /joking I think there where multiple times people defended Rainflower on that board (The Cats), but idk I barely read stuff there. I think some people there would take any controversial character and defend just for the sake of being contrarian. Get more attention that way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Hollyfall on Jul 10, 2022 22:03:19 GMT -5
Mudclaw defense squads were incredible to behold. Sleekwhisker's defenders during her brief period as a girlboss icon were also hilarious. nothing defines a girlboss more than joining a cult run by a social darwinist and then later organizing a plan to kidnap innocent children and take revenge on your grandfather and former leader
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Post by vectoring34 on Jul 10, 2022 22:49:25 GMT -5
Mudclaw defense squads were incredible to behold. Sleekwhisker's defenders during her brief period as a girlboss icon were also hilarious. nothing defines a girlboss more than joining a cult run by a social darwinist and then later organizing a plan to kidnap innocent children and take revenge on your grandfather and former leader Yeah but she rebelled against and killed a male leader so she's a girlboss by default
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Post by Punkpaw on Jul 10, 2022 22:51:35 GMT -5
Russetfur simps. "LIONBLAZE SHOULDN'T HAVE ATTACKED HER THAT ASSHOLE SHE WAS TOO OLD" my brother in Christ she was mauling his leader I still don't know how Firestar was getting his ass kicked by an old lady but that's a different question altogether Mudclaw defense squads were incredible to behold. Sleekwhisker's defenders during her brief period as a girlboss icon were also hilarious. nothing defines a girlboss more than joining a cult run by a social darwinist and then later organizing a plan to kidnap innocent children and take revenge on your grandfather and former leader YAS QUEEN SLAY (your grandpa)
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Post by primethegreat on Jul 11, 2022 1:07:05 GMT -5
Mapleshade/Frecklewish discourse. I’ve seen people say Mapleshade did nothing wrong (Even if you think the 3 she killed deserved to die she condemned 2 bloodlines for something they didn’t do and hurt Perchpaw.) and others say Frecklewish didn’t do anything wrong (she literally called the kits half clan creatures. No matter what she was feeling for being betrayed, that isn’t OK.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 11, 2022 9:05:54 GMT -5
The other day i read an entirely serious Firestar hate rant where they said Firestar only weakened ThunderClan, that kittypets were useless and lazy, that the warrior code was flawless and he was a bad leader for trying to put his Clan first instead of the code, and he should have never been made leader because he was a kittypet and they couldn't be warriors. Not to mention, the person ranting also said he was foolish and breaking the code for allowing Daisy and Millie to keep their names. In addition, OP loathed Firestar for killing Scourge, and saying he shouldn't have killed Tigerstar 1.
The whole time reading that rant i was thinking... Has that person even read the books? Because we have seen countless of times kittypets being proven as good warriors, and that a name dosen't define wether you are a good warrior or not. That's a true first arc warrior mentality we have there, lol.
And don't get me started on them defending evil cats and bashing Fire for trying to save the forest...
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Post by Punkpaw on Jul 11, 2022 9:29:14 GMT -5
The other day i read an entirely serious Firestar hate rant where they said Firestar only weakened ThunderClan, that kittypets were useless and lazy, that the warrior code was flawless and he was a bad leader for trying to put his Clan first instead of the code, and he should have never been made leader because he was a kittypet and they couldn't be warriors. Not to mention, the person ranting also said he was foolish and breaking the code for allowing Daisy and Millie to keep their names. In addition, OP loathed Firestar for killing Scourge, and saying he shouldn't have killed Tigerstar 1. The whole time reading that rant i was thinking... Has that person even read the books? Because we have seen countless of times kittypets being proven as good warriors, and that a name dosen't define wether you are a good warrior or not. That's a true first arc warrior mentality we have there, lol. And don't get me started on them defending evil cats and bashing Fire for trying to save the forest... Somebody needs to tell Darkstripe to get off the Internet
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 11, 2022 11:06:49 GMT -5
i think anytime someone tries to argue that a personal opinion is equal to canon objective fact. this occurs most often when someone doesn't care for a particular character's personality and choices, which is just a matter of taste. but then someone else feels the need to convince said person that their opinion is "incorrect" as if its something that can be proven wrong with evidence.
for example: if i said "i don't like squirrelflight because i find her annoying", and someone tried to argue with me, "she's not annoying, and here's several reasons why you're wrong about that using ~scene analysis~ as proof" as if it's an observable fact. i've run into this multiple times were people confuse personal preference/opinion with somehow "misunderstanding".
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Post by Hollyfall on Jul 11, 2022 11:42:04 GMT -5
i think anytime someone tries to argue that a personal opinion is equal to canon objective fact. this occurs most often when someone doesn't care for a particular character's personality and choices, which is just a matter of taste. but then someone else feels the need to convince said person that their opinion is "incorrect" as if its something that can be proven wrong with evidence. for example: if i said "i don't like squirrelflight because i find her annoying", and someone tried to argue with me, "she's not annoying, and here's several reasons why you're wrong about that using ~scene analysis~ as proof" as if it's an observable fact. i've run into this multiple times were people confuse personal preference/opinion with somehow "misunderstanding". what? how dare you have a different opinion than me! i'm going to write up a whole essay on why you are objectively wrong based off a single comment you made! you aren't allowed to dislike the things i enjoy! /s
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Aroace
#90ec86
Name Colour
Pineclaw
Pronouns: He/Him or They/Them
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Post by Pineclaw on Jul 11, 2022 11:47:18 GMT -5
People defending Rainflower by saying her not rejecting Crookedkit would have been unrealistic because "cats will abandon a sick or injured kitten because it won't survive anyway."
Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. Another one claimed that Ashfur was a loyal cat who would never actually hurt his clanmates and that he suspected Brambleclaw of luring Firestar into that foxtrap. You know, deliberately ignoring Ashfur's own confession. Not only that, the same person claimed that it's Squirrelflight's own fault that Ashfur fell in love with her and thus she's also to blame for everything he did. And of course people saying Ashfur would have been a good mate if Squirrel would just give him a chance, an "obviously" better choice than "the son of that traitor."
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Jul 11, 2022 12:18:01 GMT -5
People defending Rainflower by saying her not rejecting Crookedkit would have been unrealistic because "cats will abandon a sick or injured kitten because it won't survive anyway."
Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. Another one claimed that Ashfur was a loyal cat who would never actually hurt his clanmates and that he suspected Brambleclaw of luring Firestar into that foxtrap. You know, deliberately ignoring Ashfur's own confession. Not only that, the same person claimed that it's Squirrelflight's own fault that Ashfur fell in love with her and thus she's also to blame for everything he did. And of course people saying Ashfur would have been a good mate if Squirrel would just give him a chance, an "obviously" better choice than "the son of that traitor." I've also seen countless of fans trying to defend Rainflower because "she was abused as a kit!" when not only is that a made-up fact and never confirmed in the books, but it would also not justify her treatment of Crookedkit in the first place. Those rants are now rare, but i've seen them a disturbing amount of times.
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Post by cable on Jul 11, 2022 13:39:19 GMT -5
Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. i have genuinely seen the “squirrelflight led ashfur on” argument in the year of our lord 2022.
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Cloudstorm
Don’t let it kill you. Even when it hurts like hell.
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Post by Cloudstorm on Jul 11, 2022 15:28:01 GMT -5
Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. i have genuinely seen the “squirrelflight led ashfur on” argument in the year of our lord 2022. Even if hypothetically she did lead him on unintentionally, wouldn’t justify or warrant the chaos or heinous crimes he committed afterwards. And how was she supposed to know he’d flip his rocking chair over a courtship that lasted..what? A moon at most?. Never understood how anyone puts any of the blame on Squirrelflight. Unless that person is an Incel themselves, and feels a sense of entitlement to women and empathizes with him on some gross level.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 11, 2022 15:56:52 GMT -5
Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. i have genuinely seen the “squirrelflight led ashfur on” argument in the year of our lord 2022. personally, i can see the argument that squirrelflight might have unintentionally led Ashfur on. but it doesn't mean squirrelflight is somehow to blame for ashfur being an incel lol.
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Post by mongoosemongeese on Jul 11, 2022 16:07:02 GMT -5
People defending Rainflower by saying her not rejecting Crookedkit would have been unrealistic because "cats will abandon a sick or injured kitten because it won't survive anyway." Also Ashfur fans claiming that Squirrelflight just used him to make Brambleclaw jealous. Another one claimed that Ashfur was a loyal cat who would never actually hurt his clanmates and that he suspected Brambleclaw of luring Firestar into that foxtrap. You know, deliberately ignoring Ashfur's own confession. Not only that, the same person claimed that it's Squirrelflight's own fault that Ashfur fell in love with her and thus she's also to blame for everything he did. And of course, people saying Ashfur would have been a good mate if Squirrel would just give him a chance, an "obviously" better choice than "the son of that traitor." I never understood the "cat instincts" excuse with Rainflower either, I mean these cats clearly don't act like real cats, they have religion, medicine cats, a code, etc. If it was actually meant to be realistic, Shellheart wouldn't have cared for Crookedkit or Rainflower at all, male cats 'instinctively' don't care for their mates or kits but you don't see that in the books And why is Rainflower the only one who neglects her kit if it's insticts? You never see Snowkit's mom abuse him because he's deaf, or Leafpool/Squirrelflight neglecting Jayfeather because he's blind.
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Aroace
#90ec86
Name Colour
Pineclaw
Pronouns: He/Him or They/Them
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Post by Pineclaw on Jul 11, 2022 16:31:06 GMT -5
I never understood the "cat instincts" excuse with Rainflower either, I mean these cats clearly don't act like real cats, they have religion, medicine cats, a code, etc. If it was actually meant to be realistic, Shellheart wouldn't have cared for Crookedkit or Rainflower at all, male cats 'instinctively' don't care for their mates or kits but you don't see that in the books And why is Rainflower the only one who neglects her kit if it's insticts? You never see Snowkit's mom abuse him because he's deaf, or Leafpool/Squirrelflight neglecting Jayfeather because he's blind. Yeah. How come they only ever bring it up with Rainflower when there are plenty of cats who don't neglect their kits? Or ignore all the other ways in which the cats don't act like real ones? Okay, in Forest of Secrets Fireheart thought to himself that it was unusual for toms to be close with their kits but that was definitely dropped in the later arcs. So yeah, no excuse for Rainflower's behavior being "realistic" while Shellheart's isn't. Besides, Crookedkit's injury didn't even prevent him from becoming a warrior. He needed to learn how to properly eat with his jaw but that's it. So yeah, the "wouldn't survive anyway" excuse makes no sense, especially because the clans have their medicine cats. Or what, do real cats abandon their kittens for being "ugly" now?
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