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Post by Aku on Feb 16, 2017 22:13:26 GMT -5
No, no, your question being asked makes sense either way. I'm just more so confused by the whole "western concept" part that they added. Ah! Sorry for the misunderstanding x3 That's alright, misunderstandings happen cx
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 22:21:42 GMT -5
sex = what you are biologically, isolates trans and non binary people. Very Western concept gender = what you identify as This is pretty spot on, except it's not really just a western concept. A lot of people around the world tend to confuse the two as the same thing. Wait, I might be misreading this. Could you explain what you mean by "western concept" Many non-Western cultures recognize genders outside of the gender/'sex' binary for years. Things like two spirit concepts. This whole 'sex = gender' thing is an entirely new convcept, and using gender instead of sex is more appropriate and respectful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 22:57:03 GMT -5
I don't like that idea. I'm sorry but I don't want to give my child ideas. I can't tell if this is sarcasm of if some people really are this stupid.
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Post by sphagnosidum on Feb 16, 2017 23:13:21 GMT -5
It's such an out of touch sentiment. When I was little, everybody played with barbies or video games at the end of the day. Most kids probably have little concept of gender or don't think about it at all. I think it is more of a thing parents and guardians get stuck on.
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Post by Aku on Feb 16, 2017 23:18:07 GMT -5
Now just because someone has a different belief doesn't give you the right to call them stupid. Try reasoning with them and see why they think that first. Name calling isn't necessary.
(On a sidenote, I'm pretty sure they're being sarcastic? But still, that doesn't mean you can call them names)
I just really hate name calling in general unless it's all in good humor
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 23:31:24 GMT -5
Now just because someone has a different belief doesn't give you the right to call them stupid. Try reasoning with them and see why they think that first. Name calling isn't necessary. (On a sidenote, I'm pretty sure they're being sarcastic? But still, that doesn't mean you can call them names) I just really hate name calling in general unless it's all in good humorI'm sure they're smart, and I'm like 99% sure they're joking. It's a dumb sentiment though. Anyone who thinks giving a boy a barbie is gonna make the kid gay or trans are really.... uh, well, lets just say they're not the sharpest tool in the shed. lol. But I'm pretty sure they're not being serious which is why I responded the way I did. At least I hope they're not serious.
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Post by Sour Candy on Feb 16, 2017 23:40:28 GMT -5
Don't be fooled. It's all about the money. Corporations have taken advantage of gender roles to make their products and advertising pander to specific demographics. If parents think their daughter should play with pink toys, then the parents are going to spend moolah on the pink toys. So you have an entire department of pink toy brands competing to be bought. This is why women pay higher prices for "fashionable" pants with holes in them, deodorant that barely works, and a different expensive dress for every prom. And it's also why men pay for all the expensive crap on dates, cologne that smells like saturated tree-shaped air-fresheners, and renting tuxes over and over instead of just buying the dang thing. We need to take down the corporations. I have a plan, but we're going to need a goat and a pair of underwear... C O M M U N I S T
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 23:42:40 GMT -5
That's my thing. Sorry champ I'm more concerned about this line, in all honesty:
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Post by Aku on Feb 16, 2017 23:43:23 GMT -5
This is pretty spot on, except it's not really just a western concept. A lot of people around the world tend to confuse the two as the same thing. Wait, I might be misreading this. Could you explain what you mean by "western concept" Many non-Western cultures recognize genders outside of the gender/'sex' binary for years. Things like two spirit concepts. This whole 'sex = gender' thing is an entirely new convcept, and using gender instead of sex is more appropriate and respectful. It's not entirely a new concept, it's more so confusion. Most people have been using them interchangeably for a while now with little understanding to what they really mean. Sex being a western concept isn't a concept, though. It's biological, men and women are physically and biologically different (gender can have a broad spectrum, but sex is just male or female). It's not a thought, it's real. It's why hospitals will ask for your sex and not gender. It isolates trans and nonbinary people because of that very reason. A DFAB shouldn't be given the same medical treatment as a DMAB because they are biologically different (note: I'm not sure about a trans who has changed their sex, just ones that haven't). Nonbinary is a gender (or lack of), not sex. Your sex cannot be nonbinary, it's physically impossible for a human's sex to be nonbinary. Sex = biological, what's between the legs basically (male/female) Can't have a broad spectrum Gender = what you identify as, or pronouns (she/him/they/etc.) Can have a broad spectrum
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Post by *Ɗαɾƙρσσℓ* on Feb 16, 2017 23:45:08 GMT -5
I feel like telling your kids what toys they can and can't play with isn't gonna make them grow up the way you want them to, it's just gonna make them feel like they have to hide their interests from you. I played with dinosaurs and robots growing up, and now i'm into skirts and pink and glitter and nail polish (still like dinos and robots tho). What people like as kids doesn't determine who they are for the rest of their lives, so I don't see the point to trying to control their interests.
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Post by Aku on Feb 16, 2017 23:49:14 GMT -5
Now just because someone has a different belief doesn't give you the right to call them stupid. Try reasoning with them and see why they think that first. Name calling isn't necessary. (On a sidenote, I'm pretty sure they're being sarcastic? But still, that doesn't mean you can call them names) I just really hate name calling in general unless it's all in good humorI'm sure they're smart, and I'm like 99% sure they're joking. It's a dumb sentiment though. Anyone who thinks giving a boy a barbie is gonna make the kid gay or trans are really.... uh, well, lets just say they're not the sharpest tool in the shed. lol. But I'm pretty sure they're not being serious which is why I responded the way I did. At least I hope they're not serious. Yeah, I don't understand how that could affect a kids sexuality lol I'm pretty sure they're joking also, but you never know.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Feb 17, 2017 3:14:10 GMT -5
Toys are toys. Nothing makes a child turn gay/lesbian, or make them trans. They are born that way regardless of their upbringing.
I played with mostly boy themed toys, and had mostly guy friends growing up. Yet I'm not lesbian or trans, because guess what? I wasn't born that way. Meanwhile I had a very close guy friend who was "all boy" as they say, and he's probably the gayest man I've ever met. Because once again, he was born that way.
So yeah, toys don't make a child a certain way. It all boils down to how they're born.
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Post by The Noble Dragon on Feb 17, 2017 3:56:04 GMT -5
I love all the messages you guys are saying about how it doesn't matter and stuff
But if we could stop saying that a kid playing with a certain toy is(or isn't) going to turn them gay or trans bc that still stigmatizes the Lgbt community and points out that its still wrong for someone to be like that since it isn't the "norm"
Like I know none of you meant it that way but it still comes off as if a kid turning out to be gay or trans is still wrong bc no it's just going to let the kid be who they are (the implied straight is there bc "everyone" is straight so it won't turn our kids gay bc they are straight so let them play with whatever toys they want!)
I don't mean this to be mean to everyone! I only want to point out we all have a long way to go towards normalizing the LGBT community into the mainstream and you are all doing a great job so far! We just have to keep working and making sure we are being inclusive of everyone and not accidentally say the opposite of what we mean just to make a point!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 7:08:37 GMT -5
IMO this is just going to be a whole "preaching to the converted" situation, since I guarantee 99% of the people on this board think that yes, kids should be able to play with whatever toys they want and yes, gender roles are stupid. So really, it's not going to bring up a big, productive discussion over whether kids should or shouldn't be able to play with toys of the opposite gender since most if not everyone here is going to say yes to that.
But I digress, in my opinion....I don't care with whichever toys a kid plays with, so long as it's appropriate for their age & they're safe toys.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 7:27:09 GMT -5
.... This is.. A..... Controversy.... Right... Now.....?? ☁︎ out of character ☁︎ i'm confused as well, if someone could give an explanation.
☁︎ roleplay ☁︎
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Feb 17, 2017 8:04:28 GMT -5
.... This is.. A..... Controversy.... Right... Now.....?? ☁︎ out of character ☁︎ i'm confused as well, if someone could give an explanation.
☁︎ roleplay ☁︎ This whole thing started because of the new Male American Girl Doll. Here's a link about some of the "debate" claiming how "wrong" it is and whatever: Link
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 8:21:11 GMT -5
I don't like that idea. I'm sorry but I don't want to give my child ideas. I can't tell if this is sarcasm of if some people really are this stupid. Gee wiz you guys can't take a southern opinion without asking why I think the way I do :T oh well! I guess I'm stupid for disagreeing on something. I myself didn't grow up with men's toys. My room was pink, I played with playhouses, and I played with Barbies and a tad of Webkinz. Simple as that. I don't want to start an argument, so I won't engage in one. I just wish you all would take a different opinion better. I guess I'm "Not the Sharpest Tool in the Shed" for thinking something different than the majority. Oh why am I trying to justify myself? You guys wouldn't listen to me if I explained it anyway.
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Post by greene on Feb 17, 2017 9:00:53 GMT -5
I can't tell if this is sarcasm of if some people really are this stupid. Gee wiz you guys can't take a southern opinion without asking why I think the way I do :T oh well! I guess I'm stupid for disagreeing on something. I myself didn't grow up with men's toys. My room was pink, I played with playhouses, and I played with Barbies and a tad of Webkinz. Simple as that. I don't want to start an argument, so I won't engage in one. I just wish you all would take a different opinion better. I guess I'm "Not the Sharpest Tool in the Shed" for thinking something different than the majority. Oh why am I trying to justify myself? You guys wouldn't listen to me if I explained it anyway. it's funny bc I still can't tell if this is A Joke(tm) at all but if not then you literally haven't justified your argument w actual reason whatsoever thus far
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 9:49:36 GMT -5
Okay I'll try to say my reasoning, but please don't gang up on me. I only ask for a civil conversation and nothing more. I don't wish to offend anyone either. Also, please remain respectful to others opinions.
I'm fine if a girl plays with men's toys such as cars, a wooden toy gun, etc. That's part of life's skills I guess that she could pick up. If a boy however picks up a barbie or plays with a toy blow dryer or whatever is a girl's toy, I'm not okay with that at all and if I have a son he will not do that whatsoever. Of course if a boy or a girl picks up the opposite gender's toys, they won't turn gay straight off. That's completely absurd. What I worry my son will continue the habit, or be encouraged by his peers to do women-like things as he grows. He needs to learn live's skills as a man such as fixing cars, learning how to fight, etc. I believe a man is supposed to be the guardian of the household and the women the partner of the man. I'm not too comfortable with anything being other than that. I don't wish for my child to be made fun of, and I wish to continue my bloodline as I grow into the older range. If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way.
At least, that's how I feel about things, and I completely understand all of the above's reasons as well. Again, I don't wish to start an argument, so please be respectful.
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Lesbian
falconfire
currently watching/reading/playing: haikyuu, avatar: the last airbender, animal crossing new horizon
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Post by falconfire on Feb 17, 2017 10:39:13 GMT -5
Okay I'll try to say my reasoning, but please don't gang up on me. I only ask for a civil conversation and nothing more. I don't wish to offend anyone either. Also, please remain respectful to others opinions. I'm fine if a girl plays with men's toys such as cars, a wooden toy gun, etc. That's part of life's skills I guess that she could pick up. If a boy however picks up a barbie or plays with a toy blow dryer or whatever is a girl's toy, I'm not okay with that at all and if I have a son he will not do that whatsoever. Of course if a boy or a girl picks up the opposite gender's toys, they won't turn gay straight off. That's completely absurd. What I worry my son will continue the habit, or be encouraged by his peers to do women-like things as he grows. He needs to learn live's skills as a man such as fixing cars, learning how to fight, etc. I believe a man is supposed to be the guardian of the household and the women the partner of the man. I'm not too comfortable with anything being other than that. I don't wish for my child to be made fun of, and I wish to continue my bloodline as I grow into the older range. If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way. At least, that's how I feel about things, and I completely understand all of the above's reasons as well. Again, I don't wish to start an argument, so please be respectful. in my humble opinion, uh... if you aren't ready to have a child that's trans or gay, you... shouldn't have a child at all. same with, like, if you would only accept a child that pursues a certain career, or has certain interests. a parent can teach and guide their kids, but in the end, the children are their own people too, and parents should limit how they assume their offspring might end up being or acting.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 17, 2017 10:47:37 GMT -5
And it's weird that simply painting a boy's car toy pink automatically makes it a girl's toy, especially considering blue was a feminine color and pink was a masculine color until the 1940's. Pink then became more popular with 1950's commercialism. pretty sure the blue/pink shift thing was a myth. Here's an article explaining why.
I also think it's pretty different to compare human dolls to doggy chew toys. Children like to play with dolls because it's another way to play-act or pretend in a way that would be hard for them to themselves. It's about imitating what they see grown-ups do. Chew toys are for an animal to rip apart in order to satisfy their prey drives. It's pretty different.
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Post by greene on Feb 17, 2017 12:17:46 GMT -5
Okay I'll try to say my reasoning, but please don't gang up on me. I only ask for a civil conversation and nothing more. I don't wish to offend anyone either. Also, please remain respectful to others opinions. I'm fine if a girl plays with men's toys such as cars, a wooden toy gun, etc. That's part of life's skills I guess that she could pick up. If a boy however picks up a barbie or plays with a toy blow dryer or whatever is a girl's toy, I'm not okay with that at all and if I have a son he will not do that whatsoever. Of course if a boy or a girl picks up the opposite gender's toys, they won't turn gay straight off. That's completely absurd. What I worry my son will continue the habit, or be encouraged by his peers to do women-like things as he grows. He needs to learn live's skills as a man such as fixing cars, learning how to fight, etc. I believe a man is supposed to be the guardian of the household and the women the partner of the man. I'm not too comfortable with anything being other than that. I don't wish for my child to be made fun of, and I wish to continue my bloodline as I grow into the older range. If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way. At least, that's how I feel about things, and I completely understand all of the above's reasons as well. Again, I don't wish to start an argument, so please be respectful. but why does it matter?? you think because he played with Barbies that he'll never learn how to shoot a gun or whatever? how do those things link up at all? and we're not living in the 1800s. maybe you should move on from the idea that only certain people can do certain things because of what they have between their legs (not to offend, of course).
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Post by dashingshadows on Feb 17, 2017 13:48:17 GMT -5
When I was a kid I tortured my barbie Ripped her to bits, piece by piece and chewed on them
I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else does and that's hardly a gendered activity
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 17, 2017 13:52:09 GMT -5
When I was a kid I tortured my barbie Ripped her to bits, piece by piece and chewed on them I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else does and that's hardly a gendered activity I played with them properly as a kid but as I got older i liked to hold Barbie up naked in the path of our ceiling fan
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Feb 17, 2017 13:55:11 GMT -5
If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way. Sorry...but I don't see how this part isn't offensive??? Having a trans child doesn't mean you failed as a parent. You only fail as a parent if you aren't willing to accept and love your child for who they are.
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Post by dashingshadows on Feb 17, 2017 13:58:18 GMT -5
When I was a kid I tortured my barbie Ripped her to bits, piece by piece and chewed on them I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else does and that's hardly a gendered activity I played with them properly as a kid but as I got older i liked to hold Barbie up naked in the path of our ceiling fanThe little girls next door throw their barbies out the top floor window I think murdering tiny plastic humans is a human instinct
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Post by greene on Feb 17, 2017 14:09:36 GMT -5
If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way. Sorry...but I don't see how this part isn't offensive??? Having a trans child doesn't mean you failed as a parent. You only fail as a parent if you aren't willing to accept and love your child for who they are. "no offense but I fear my child developing an indepdent identity"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 14:13:01 GMT -5
I used to destroy my Barbies and my toys
I once threw one of my dolls' heads at my older brother, he screamed like a crazy person
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 14:27:02 GMT -5
Okay I'll try to say my reasoning, but please don't gang up on me. I only ask for a civil conversation and nothing more. I don't wish to offend anyone either. Also, please remain respectful to others opinions. I'm fine if a girl plays with men's toys such as cars, a wooden toy gun, etc. That's part of life's skills I guess that she could pick up. If a boy however picks up a barbie or plays with a toy blow dryer or whatever is a girl's toy, I'm not okay with that at all and if I have a son he will not do that whatsoever. Of course if a boy or a girl picks up the opposite gender's toys, they won't turn gay straight off. That's completely absurd. What I worry my son will continue the habit, or be encouraged by his peers to do women-like things as he grows. He needs to learn live's skills as a man such as fixing cars, learning how to fight, etc. I believe a man is supposed to be the guardian of the household and the women the partner of the man. I'm not too comfortable with anything being other than that. I don't wish for my child to be made fun of, and I wish to continue my bloodline as I grow into the older range. If my child was transgender then, I wouldn't really know what to do. I would kind of feel like I failed as a parent, not to offend anyone by the way. At least, that's how I feel about things, and I completely understand all of the above's reasons as well. Again, I don't wish to start an argument, so please be respectful. you feel like you would fail as a parent if your child was gay/transgender? damn, imagine how your child would feel to have a parent who can't accept and love them for who they are. ://
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