I have Sky!

Tigerstar was so awful in The Raging Storm- also really glad to see you posting again.

He was but I also don’t like the Sisters so I don’t really hate him for that

He’s horrible in Sky. I even dislike him now. I’m curious just how awful he’s gonna be throughout this arc.

I’m also glad to see this thread open again.

Bramblestar being so gosh darn OOC in SQH is one of my biggeat complaints about it. He would absolutely not let any cat die, even a rogue/Sister.

He definitely was!! I've disliked him since then, tbh, even though I know a lot of people were softened by him throughout TBC because he was such a good dad and stuff. But all I could think was that he might be a good dad, but he's not a good leader. He is so aggressive and quick to put everyone in danger for no reason, rather than talking things out.

And thank you!! Your comment made me smile 🥺️ <3

You know what, I can totally see that regarding the do-over writing part in regards to Tigerstar I and Tigerstar II, what good take! Fully agree with your opinion about Tigerheart/star as well. In the eyes of the writing team, no matter what he does he just can do no wrong and will seemingly always be excused by the canon narrative and get away with his honestly vile behaviour in the name of either "wanting to protect the Clan(s)" (SkyClan's treatment in AVoS and that of The Sisters in SqH) or "just trying to help" (the RiverClan situation in ASC so far). The only time, I've ever even agreed with modern Tigerstar was during TBC when he stood up for the codebreakers and took in those who got exiled or were seeking out refuge because of the impostor and his actions.

Lowkey missing the days of PoT or even early OotS (pre Fading Echoes and the start of the drawn out TigerDove drama) Tigerpaw/heart. Back when I still liked this dude. Makes me kind of sad. But only kinda.

I can't wait to get Sky!!

This book is a rollercoaster of insanity and has been thoroughly entertaining to read. After taking the time to process it, these are some of my thoughts, speculations/hopes and overall opinion of the book etc.

Firstly. Starting with the protagonists.

Sunbeam is my favorite atm. So far she’s the most fascinating character-wise of the bunch, and feels to me to have the greatest potential. With her relationship woes. Being caught in the conflict between RiC and ShC. the dilemma with her mother, and discovering what her viewpoint of the code changes are. Plus she’s a good-natured and overall likable character. Thrilled to see where her path leads

Frostpaw…. I just genuinely sympathize with the poor tikes situation. Having her mother taking away, and then having to shoulder such a heavy burden and responsibility of picking the new leader being her clans only connection to Starclan, and then having Tigerheart parade in and force them into submission and basically going (“ your civilization is collapsing, so let me take control and restructure it for you, without consent”). Like damn! She’s hardly had a chance to
breathe, let alone grieve her Mother’s death properly. She definitely needs more sustenance to her, but I’m engaged with her enough. And the unraveling chaos in Riverclan through her lens definitely makes up for her shortcomings as a character.

Nightheart…has the most infuriating personality of any protagonist in the whole series to me. The level of narcissism and cynicism from him is astonishing. Like I understand him suffering from some trauma, and emotional abandonment/feelings of being neglected by his mother contributing to his sour/moody attitude. But the burden of his legacy from being a descendant of Firestar frankly in majority of instances feels like some manifestation inspired by his insecurities, that he’s internalized as the repository of all his problems, and secondly as justification to being such an arrogant, incorrigible jerk to everyone. And he’s clearly using his internalized grief of being compared to Firestar(which he isn’t!) as a scapegoat to not take accountability for his atrocious attitude, to not have to listen to genuine constructive criticism etc. many of his scenes could be comically summarized as:

Nightheart “ you so much as mention Firestar’s name or legacy, your dead to me!, But by Thor’s Thunder you’ll respect me like I were Firestar himself!… wait, you have opinions different then mine?and expect me to earn respect? HOW DARE YOU EXPECT SO MUCH OF ME, your dead to me forever “Middle Finger/Paw?” Etc etc. you get the idea.

He’s just entirely self-absorbed, and self-focused in every chapter. And he virtually lacks any compassion, empathy etc. and is pretty uncaring of most situations/events/conflicts unfolding around him beyond a superficial level. Unless he’s directly involved/effected by it in some way. Or his clanmates feelings/affairs and such. Like the couple scenes where he notes Bramblestar’s change in behavior and disconnect from his clan, and how he wants him to start taking command like a real leader again. However, it’s not because he’s genuinely concerned about his well-being, as it’s because he begrudges taking orders from Squirrelflight.



Now the Plot. Oh boy, oh Boy, oh Boy. Intercultural drama and a takeover? Im getting TPB vibes and I love it!. Tigerheart’s invasion into Riverclan is simultaneously Horrifying and intriguing. Through the whole takeover, Tigerheart gives off some pretty chilling “False messiah vibes/complex with him viewing Riverclan as basically falling out of touch with the warriors code, principles etc. and him taking it as his responsibility to put them back on the “Straight-and-narrow” sort of speak. even if it requires forcibly beating them into submission. Which actually makes sense with the narrative, considering Tigerheart was quite literally resurrected from the dead , and exalted onto a pedestal like some figurative” cat Jesus”. So to me would make sense he not only feel obligated, but also has an inalienable right of sorts to dictate how the code should be followed by the other clans. Not sure if it’s intentionally written that way, but I’m certainly hoping it is, and that there are consequences for his horrific actions, and eventually gets deposed from leader, preferably through a unanimous vote from the other clan leaders. Because his conduct is truly disgusting.

I have more thoughts. But I’ll cut it off there for now.

But overall I enjoyed reading it, and I’m excited for Shadow. And despite how it sounds, I don’t completely despise Nightheart. He’s insufferable currently imo, but I’m holding out some hope that he becomes more mature and far less self-centered, and actually confronts and works through his problems with his family, instead of running away because things aren’t working out how he wants them immediately.

Idk, I still like Tigerheartstar. Fun antagonist but one you can sorta play devil's advocate for. Bad but not too bad?

Fully agree with you once again! And don't even get me started on Dovewing. They really have reduced her character to just being Tigerstar's mate at this point without her having much agency on her own anymore. If she ever even had any post Fading Echoes considering just how long already her characterization has revolved around her relationship drama with him. Which is too bad. Because I really liked Dovewing's potential from before (TFA) back then and think it's sad that she has been written this way for the sake of TigerDove happening instead.

I can see what you all mean, but I also feel like sometimes people take his behavior as "unprompted" or for no reason, when it's clear he's acting this way for reasons. Not just because he's young, but also because of how he was treated in the previous book, along with the trauma he was dealt with during Brashfur's days. He's noted to be defensive because of how he was treated, he didn't just...magically end up the way he did, is what I mean. I do agree, he needs to mature, and I can understand why people dislike him, but I don't think some should just gloss over the fact that he's doing this because of what he already went through. Out of the three protagonist, Nightheart was already a "loaded" character, while we progressively saw it happen to Frostpaw, and Sunbeam. The narrative for Nightheart IS different because of that reason.

I elaborated a bit more on what I meant below

Exactly as Sphinxwhisker  said.

Also glitchkitty , please refrain from bringing back up old issues on the thread that the mods have already dealt with, it's disrespectful them and other users. Move on, and read the rules of the forums before making this your first post ever here.

And we're saying that problem /was/ already solved. No one on this thread ever said that Squirrelflight hit Bramblestar, and at most the issue was her "contemplating" it, which was already cleared up as "it looked as if she was going to hit him". If you wish to see for yourself, there's a search function on the threads, but as I said, I can assure you that that claim was never made.

At this point there is no reason to be bringing this up, again, especially after the mods already cleaned up the thread, and everyone has already moved on from the subject. You're making an argument out of nothing, please be respectful of the thread, forum rules, and move on.

Let's leave the topic considering Bramblestar and Squirrelflight in the dust please. I'd rather not have to lock this thread again and not allow everyone to have the opportunity to discuss the new book.

If you're new... I apologize that you've entered at a weird time. Welcome to our community.

Hope everyone understands where I'm coming from, I apologize if it's harsh.