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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 20, 2022 14:06:21 GMT -5
I also want to add, I find what Tigertwo is doing to be very...uncomfortable. Maybe it's because I'm afro-indigenous, but the idea of forcefully trying to help a group, whether you have good intentions or not, and using brute force to push them into a corner when they don't concede, is just gross...ShadowClan was essentially taking over RiverClan's land...RiverClan does need help, but the way ShadowClan is doing it is horrible. And it's bad enough that they already have a history with doing this, and Tigertwo's name doesn't help. It's literal generational trauma. They told them to go away several times, and even before that told them to leave them alone. Tigertwo is just ugh. Likewise. In one of Sunbeam's prior chapters he's both enraged and confused as to why cats thought he would try to launch an invasion, and says it's because when one Clan is weak (their neighboring Clan as well), it will make the other Clans weak. Especially ShadowClan. So he offered help to try and solve the problem before it gets worse.
Then later, when Mothwing, Frostpaw, and Owlnose come back from the Moonpool, Tigerstar's in the RiverClan camp, and insists he's here to help even though he's brought the majority of his warriors with him. Owlnose is too timid to really stand up to Tigerstar so Mothwing, Duskfur, and Splashtail do most of the talking. Tigerstar is concerned when he finds out Owlnose wasn't granted his lives and name by StarClan (though Frostpaw herself notes that she doesn't know how he could have known that since Fidgetflake hadn't been gone that long to tell him), and is actually diappointed when he realizes Fidgetflake was unsuccessful in trying to help. Tigerstar keeps insisting he's here to help as his warriors literally trap RiverClan in their own camp.
He's told several times by Mothwing, Duskfur, Splashtail, Owlnose (albeit weakly from him), Mallownose, Sneezecloud, and Shimmerpelt to back off and go home. He declines, but then RiverClan starts the fight with Duskfur attacking them.
It's genuinely boggling to me. He seems to have good intentions, but god. That is strange, thank you for providing more context. I hope maybe this is touched up more in the next book, but I want to see how the rest of ShadowClan take this, and how this is solved. |
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 20, 2022 14:17:21 GMT -5
Likewise. In one of Sunbeam's prior chapters he's both enraged and confused as to why cats thought he would try to launch an invasion, and says it's because when one Clan is weak (their neighboring Clan as well), it will make the other Clans weak. Especially ShadowClan. So he offered help to try and solve the problem before it gets worse.
Then later, when Mothwing, Frostpaw, and Owlnose come back from the Moonpool, Tigerstar's in the RiverClan camp, and insists he's here to help even though he's brought the majority of his warriors with him. Owlnose is too timid to really stand up to Tigerstar so Mothwing, Duskfur, and Splashtail do most of the talking. Tigerstar is concerned when he finds out Owlnose wasn't granted his lives and name by StarClan (though Frostpaw herself notes that she doesn't know how he could have known that since Fidgetflake hadn't been gone that long to tell him), and is actually diappointed when he realizes Fidgetflake was unsuccessful in trying to help. Tigerstar keeps insisting he's here to help as his warriors literally trap RiverClan in their own camp.
He's told several times by Mothwing, Duskfur, Splashtail, Owlnose (albeit weakly from him), Mallownose, Sneezecloud, and Shimmerpelt to back off and go home. He declines, but then RiverClan starts the fight with Duskfur attacking them.
It's genuinely boggling to me. He seems to have good intentions, but god. That is strange, thank you for providing more context. I hope maybe this is touched up more in the next book, but I want to see how the rest of ShadowClan take this, and how this is solved. I can provide the sections of the book if you'd like, but imo it's just frustrating because it seems like they're trying to do a morally ambigious situation with Tigerstar with his true intentions, but it just reads as him being a conqueror. For what it's worth, at the battle ShadowClan readily obeyed his orders and Sunbeam (granted she's the pov, but still) was the only one questioning Tigerstar's true motives. |
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 20, 2022 14:46:37 GMT -5
ShadowClan is officially my least favorite Clan again... At least until someone with a more level head becomes leader. |
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 14:59:18 GMT -5
Here's the scene with Squirrelflight and Bramblestar when they're arguing after Leafstar left. The start is just after Leafstar arrives and says she has suspicions about Tigerstar. And when Squirrelflight finds out Bramblestar asked Nightheart and Bayshine to spy on Tigerstar/ShadowClan: 1) Squirrelflight not undermining Bramblestar in front of Leafstar is a point in her favor, at least she presented a united front. But then she loses that point for immediately rounding on Bramblestar in an aggressively confrontational manner. Gurl. Calm down. 2) Bramble is being very naive for thinking Tigertwo "just wants to give advice", given his track record of bullying other clans into doing what he thinks is best. That being said, his plan to wait and see how things develop is not necessarily a bad plan - they can't be sure, and there's not a lot that can be done in that moment - his reasoning just sucks. 3) "Tigerstar is a good leader" bro are you serious??? 4) The manner that Bramble pulls rank is gross. Why are these two incapable of communicating their concerns and issues civilly? "Bramblestar, I am worried you are underestimating Tigerstar and think we need to reconsider the 'wait and see' approach." "I hear and understand your concern, Squirrelflight, and I will consider it, but for now I need you to trust my decision as your leader." <--- is that so hard??? 5) I get why Squilf may be frustrated, but looking so angry that a bystander thinks you might hit your mate is....really bad. Basically, this couple SUCKS and is the poster child for toxic communication issues. Bramble sticking his head in the sand when it comes to Tigertwo's track record and Squilf lashing out immediately at her mate/leader when he makes a decision she disagrees with. They have no patience for each other (and never have tbh). |
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Post by *Faith* on Oct 20, 2022 15:07:14 GMT -5
Reading the last chapter, Mistpaw is mistakenly said to be gray. Like I said earlier, it makes sense that she looks like a warrior already. Curlfeather gave birth to her kits in leaf-bare. This book starts near the end of leaf-fall. I don't know what season it is when the book ends.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 20, 2022 15:11:28 GMT -5
Here's the scene with Squirrelflight and Bramblestar when they're arguing after Leafstar left. The start is just after Leafstar arrives and says she has suspicions about Tigerstar. And when Squirrelflight finds out Bramblestar asked Nightheart and Bayshine to spy on Tigerstar/ShadowClan: 1) Squirrelflight not undermining Bramblestar in front of Leafstar is a point in her favor, at least she presented a united front. But then she loses that point for immediately rounding on Bramblestar in an aggressively confrontational manner. Gurl. Calm down. 2) Bramble is being very naive for thinking Tigertwo "just wants to give advice", given his track record of bullying other clans into doing what he thinks is best. That being said, his plan to wait and see how things develop is not necessarily a bad plan - they can't be sure, and there's not a lot that can be done in that moment - his reasoning just sucks. 3) "Tigerstar is a good leader" bro are you serious??? 4) The manner that Bramble pulls rank is gross. Why are these two incapable of communicating their concerns and issues civilly? "Bramblestar, I am worried you are underestimating Tigerstar and think we need to reconsider the 'wait and see' approach." "I hear and understand your concern, Squirrelflight, and I will consider it, but for now I need you to trust my decision as your leader." <--- is that so hard??? 5) I get why Squilf may be frustrated, but looking so angry that a bystander thinks you might hit your mate is....really bad. Basically, this couple SUCKS and is the poster child for toxic communication issues. Bramble sticking his head in the sand when it comes to Tigertwo's track record and Squilf lashing out immediately at her mate/leader when he makes a decision she disagrees with. They have no patience for each other (and never have tbh). I feel like this gets even worst in the current context it's in too because of Bramblestar's state of mind as well. Probably not intentional by Erins, don't know, but Squirrelflight is coming off as a bit ableist in an abusive way. While Bramblestar isn't fully comprehending his circumstances due to his declining health. He has moments of clarity, but then loses them and is lost in space, forgetful, or he shown to be shaken up and scared in others, unsure what to do. He isn't well, and I don't think yelling at him is going to solve anything either. And my guess is him pulling up rank is the only semblance of "control" he personally even has anymore at this point, which isn't much either. Considering regardless of him saying this, Squirrelflight still does what she wants. And since we've seen how she is with him in private, it just makes me more doubtful that anything positive can come from this outcome anymore.
I really do think that at this point their relationship should cease, but it worries me if Bramblestar would just get worse at this point because Squirrelflight is his closest "stability" even if it's not a healthy one. |
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 15:12:27 GMT -5
oh man I missed the second bit where they argued over Nightheart's "mission". Aaaaargh.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 15:39:12 GMT -5
1) Squirrelflight not undermining Bramblestar in front of Leafstar is a point in her favor, at least she presented a united front. But then she loses that point for immediately rounding on Bramblestar in an aggressively confrontational manner. Gurl. Calm down. 2) Bramble is being very naive for thinking Tigertwo "just wants to give advice", given his track record of bullying other clans into doing what he thinks is best. That being said, his plan to wait and see how things develop is not necessarily a bad plan - they can't be sure, and there's not a lot that can be done in that moment - his reasoning just sucks. 3) "Tigerstar is a good leader" bro are you serious??? 4) The manner that Bramble pulls rank is gross. Why are these two incapable of communicating their concerns and issues civilly? "Bramblestar, I am worried you are underestimating Tigerstar and think we need to reconsider the 'wait and see' approach." "I hear and understand your concern, Squirrelflight, and I will consider it, but for now I need you to trust my decision as your leader." <--- is that so hard??? 5) I get why Squilf may be frustrated, but looking so angry that a bystander thinks you might hit your mate is....really bad. Basically, this couple SUCKS and is the poster child for toxic communication issues. Bramble sticking his head in the sand when it comes to Tigertwo's track record and Squilf lashing out immediately at her mate/leader when he makes a decision she disagrees with. They have no patience for each other (and never have tbh). I feel like this gets even worst in the current context it's in too because of Bramblestar's state of mind as well. Probably not intentional by Erins, don't know, but Squirrelflight is coming off as a bit ableist in an abusive way. While Bramblestar isn't fully comprehending his circumstances due to his declining health. He has moments of clarity, but then loses them and is lost in space, forgetful, or he shown to be shaken up and scared in others, unsure what to do. He isn't well, and I don't think yelling at him is going to solve anything either. And my guess is him pulling up rank is the only semblance of "control" he personally even has anymore at this point, which isn't much either. Considering regardless of him saying this, Squirrelflight still does what she wants. And since we've seen how she is with him in private, it just makes me more doubtful that anything positive can come from this outcome anymore.
I really do think that at this point their relationship should cease, but it worries me if Bramblestar would just get worse at this point because Squirrelflight is his closest "stability" even if it's not a healthy one. I think it's useless debating how much/how little Bramble's mental state affects the gravity of this. Yelling at your mate/spouse in an argument is wrong, full stop, and I'm not personally interested in measuring the exact badness level. I don't think it's wrong for him to remind her of their ranking. It's the way he does it, which basically amounts to a nasty " Shut up, I'M in charge". There's more respectful ways to say it. His potential mental health issues doesn't mean he can't be held accountable. A big problem I have with the Squilf/Bramble debate is the same issue that a lot of real-life couples have: the idea that because one side of the couple instigates means behavior, it's not the other side's fault if they respond in kind. That escalates one person's emotional outburst into full-blown nasty arguments that are more about "putting the other in their place" than working together to solve the source of conflict. It's a really unhealthy way to look at relationship conflicts. Squilf/Bramble almost always present their issues in an accusatory manner; and instead of trying to defuse the tension, the other ramps it up by getting self-righteously defensive, deflective, or just nasty. |
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 20, 2022 15:42:36 GMT -5
Reading the last chapter, Mistpaw is mistakenly said to be gray. Like I said earlier, it makes sense that she looks like a warrior already. Curlfeather gave birth to her kits in leaf-bare. This book starts near the end of leaf-fall. I don't know what season it is when the book ends. I'll have to skim the book again for specific mentions of the seasons and such, but I believe it's betweed mid to late leaf-fall. ShadowClan comments how early it is to get greencough in their camp (which is also why they're blaming Fringewhisker). Yarrowleaf makes a comment of "it's not even leaf-bare and we've had our first greencough death", and "I bet SkyClan's had greencough since greenleaf!". It's also mentioned to be windy and chilly at times in a few of Sunbeam's chapters. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
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Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 20, 2022 15:50:35 GMT -5
I feel like this gets even worst in the current context it's in too because of Bramblestar's state of mind as well. Probably not intentional by Erins, don't know, but Squirrelflight is coming off as a bit ableist in an abusive way. While Bramblestar isn't fully comprehending his circumstances due to his declining health. He has moments of clarity, but then loses them and is lost in space, forgetful, or he shown to be shaken up and scared in others, unsure what to do. He isn't well, and I don't think yelling at him is going to solve anything either. And my guess is him pulling up rank is the only semblance of "control" he personally even has anymore at this point, which isn't much either. Considering regardless of him saying this, Squirrelflight still does what she wants. And since we've seen how she is with him in private, it just makes me more doubtful that anything positive can come from this outcome anymore.
I really do think that at this point their relationship should cease, but it worries me if Bramblestar would just get worse at this point because Squirrelflight is his closest "stability" even if it's not a healthy one. I think it's useless debating how much/how little Bramble's mental state affects the gravity of this. Yelling at your mate/spouse in an argument is wrong, full stop, and I'm not personally interested in measuring the exact badness level. I don't think it's wrong for him to remind her of their ranking. It's the way he does it, which basically amounts to a nasty " Shut up, I'M in charge". There's more respectful ways to say it. His potential mental health issues doesn't mean he can't be held accountable. A big problem I have with the Squilf/Bramble debate is the same issue that a lot of real-life couples have: the idea that because one side of the couple instigates means behavior, it's not the other side's fault if they respond in kind. That escalates one person's emotional outburst into full-blown nasty arguments that are more about "putting the other in their place" than working together to solve the source of conflict. It's a really unhealthy way to look at relationship conflicts. Squilf/Bramble almost always present their issues in an accusatory manner; and instead of trying to defuse the tension, the other ramps it up by getting self-righteously defensive, deflective, or just nasty. Both sides have issues, but as someone who likes at least on part of the pairing, I feel like I have to defend her and accuse Bramblestar a lot more to get a point across. To this day, people still ignore his lies because of the Three's parentage lie. His lies were also severe and impacted not just a family but an entire Clan. I just want it to be acknowledged that Bramblestar is far from a saint and Squirrelflight isn't always the one that starts stuff/responds nastily. Just my view on it. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 20, 2022 15:52:53 GMT -5
I feel like this gets even worst in the current context it's in too because of Bramblestar's state of mind as well. Probably not intentional by Erins, don't know, but Squirrelflight is coming off as a bit ableist in an abusive way. While Bramblestar isn't fully comprehending his circumstances due to his declining health. He has moments of clarity, but then loses them and is lost in space, forgetful, or he shown to be shaken up and scared in others, unsure what to do. He isn't well, and I don't think yelling at him is going to solve anything either. And my guess is him pulling up rank is the only semblance of "control" he personally even has anymore at this point, which isn't much either. Considering regardless of him saying this, Squirrelflight still does what she wants. And since we've seen how she is with him in private, it just makes me more doubtful that anything positive can come from this outcome anymore.
I really do think that at this point their relationship should cease, but it worries me if Bramblestar would just get worse at this point because Squirrelflight is his closest "stability" even if it's not a healthy one. I think it's useless debating how much/how little Bramble's mental state affects the gravity of this. Yelling at your mate/spouse in an argument is wrong, full stop, and I'm not personally interested in measuring the exact badness level. I don't think it's wrong for him to remind her of their ranking. It's the way he does it, which basically amounts to a nasty " Shut up, I'M in charge". There's more respectful ways to say it. His potential mental health issues doesn't mean he can't be held accountable. A big problem I have with the Squilf/Bramble debate is the same issue that a lot of real-life couples have: the idea that because one side of the couple instigates means behavior, it's not the other side's fault if they respond in kind. That escalates one person's emotional outburst into full-blown nasty arguments that are more about "putting the other in their place" than working together to solve the source of conflict. It's a really unhealthy way to look at relationship conflicts. Squilf/Bramble almost always present their issues in an accusatory manner; and instead of trying to defuse the tension, the other ramps it up by getting self-righteously defensive, deflective, or just nasty. That's the issue with dementia, it makes communication difficult, and also affects individuals differently. There's a reason why there's specific ways to communicate with people that suffer from conditions like this, because said people find it harder to express their words, think clearly, and forget things or repeat stuff. Yelling just doesn't help, at all. And just either makes them angry in response so they get defensive, or/and deflate and get scared.
I've worked around elderly people for almost 10 years, and I've had to deal with plenty of patients who suffer from PTSD and different forms of dementia. And yelling at a patient doesn't help anything, and is seen as verbal abuse.
But mindfully I have said things like "I can understand if Squirrelflight is frustrated", "I don't think Bramblestar is fit to lead right now", etc. But it doesn't take away how uncomfortable those scenes are to read, and as I also said, whether the Erins intentionally thought to write it that way or not, the way Squirrelflight is treating Bramblestar just isn't it imo. |
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 20, 2022 15:57:18 GMT -5
Some other instances between Squirrel and Bramble, though they're not really arguments or fights. Also please for the love of god keep this civil because I don't feel like having this turn into yet another BrambleSquirrel debate. Bramblestar finding out the truth of the WindClan situation from Nightheart. He feels hurt and betrayed (and later pretty pissed about it to Squirrelflight)  Nightheart's thoughts on their relationship shortly before they talk with Leafstar. They're tense and bitter.  Bramblestar after asking Nightheart and Bayshine to spy on ShadowClan. He specifically tells them to not tell Squirrelflight about it.  |
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 16:10:48 GMT -5
I think it's useless debating how much/how little Bramble's mental state affects the gravity of this. Yelling at your mate/spouse in an argument is wrong, full stop, and I'm not personally interested in measuring the exact badness level. I don't think it's wrong for him to remind her of their ranking. It's the way he does it, which basically amounts to a nasty " Shut up, I'M in charge". There's more respectful ways to say it. His potential mental health issues doesn't mean he can't be held accountable. A big problem I have with the Squilf/Bramble debate is the same issue that a lot of real-life couples have: the idea that because one side of the couple instigates means behavior, it's not the other side's fault if they respond in kind. That escalates one person's emotional outburst into full-blown nasty arguments that are more about "putting the other in their place" than working together to solve the source of conflict. It's a really unhealthy way to look at relationship conflicts. Squilf/Bramble almost always present their issues in an accusatory manner; and instead of trying to defuse the tension, the other ramps it up by getting self-righteously defensive, deflective, or just nasty. Both sides have issues, but as someone who likes at least on part of the pairing, I feel like I have to defend her and accuse Bramblestar a lot more to get a point across. To this day, people still ignore his lies because of the Three's parentage lie. His lies were also severe and impacted not just a family but an entire Clan. I just want it to be acknowledged that Bramblestar is far from a saint and Squirrelflight isn't always the one that starts stuff/responds nastily. Just my view on it. No I agree, as someone who thinks both contribute equally to the toxicity in the relationship (just in different ways). It frustrates me when so many people act like one is the Worst Cat Ever and the other is just a pwoor innocent wittle victim at no fault for their bad behavior because "well they were just responding to [the other]'s toxicity". It's like you can never talk about a specific instance of X treating Y badly and saying "this is bad" without people coming out of the woodwork to point out all the ways Y treated X badly too. And I'm like "....yes, and?" EDIT: Just to clarify, this isn't about anyone on this thread, I'm just griping about my general experience with the ever-present Squilf/Bramble debate. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 20, 2022 16:23:14 GMT -5
Both sides have issues, but as someone who likes at least on part of the pairing, I feel like I have to defend her and accuse Bramblestar a lot more to get a point across. To this day, people still ignore his lies because of the Three's parentage lie. His lies were also severe and impacted not just a family but an entire Clan. I just want it to be acknowledged that Bramblestar is far from a saint and Squirrelflight isn't always the one that starts stuff/responds nastily. Just my view on it. No I agree, as someone who thinks both contribute equally to the toxicity in the relationship (just in different ways). It frustrates me when so many people act like one is the Worst Cat Ever and the other is just a pwoor innocent wittle victim at no fault for their bad behavior because "well they were just responding to [the other]'s toxicity". It's like you can never talk about a specific instance of X treating Y badly and saying "this is bad" without people coming out of the woodwork to point out all the ways Y treated X badly too. And I'm like "....yes, and?" EDIT: Just to clarify, this isn't about anyone on this thread, I'm just griping about my general experience with the ever-present Squilf/Bramble debate. I agree, it's obvious the circumstances of their relationship has changed from arc to arc, so it always confuses me when obscured things are brought up. Looking at their relationship as a whole, it's toxic, period. And I personally wasn't even the biggest fan of Bramblestar, and even used to be a fan of Squirrelflight. Now it's the other way around, but I'd also rather both for hem be iced at this point. Because to be honest one of them should have went, if not both, in TBC. Now they're both back into an unhealthy relationship tango yet again, but imo it's just worse now. |
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 16:28:21 GMT -5
I think it's useless debating how much/how little Bramble's mental state affects the gravity of this. Yelling at your mate/spouse in an argument is wrong, full stop, and I'm not personally interested in measuring the exact badness level. I don't think it's wrong for him to remind her of their ranking. It's the way he does it, which basically amounts to a nasty " Shut up, I'M in charge". There's more respectful ways to say it. His potential mental health issues doesn't mean he can't be held accountable. A big problem I have with the Squilf/Bramble debate is the same issue that a lot of real-life couples have: the idea that because one side of the couple instigates means behavior, it's not the other side's fault if they respond in kind. That escalates one person's emotional outburst into full-blown nasty arguments that are more about "putting the other in their place" than working together to solve the source of conflict. It's a really unhealthy way to look at relationship conflicts. Squilf/Bramble almost always present their issues in an accusatory manner; and instead of trying to defuse the tension, the other ramps it up by getting self-righteously defensive, deflective, or just nasty. That's the issue with dementia, it makes communication difficult, and also affects individuals differently. There's a reason why there's specific ways to communicate with people that suffer from conditions like this, because said people find it harder to express their words, think clearly, and forget things or repeat stuff. Yelling just doesn't help, at all. And just either makes them angry in response so they get defensive, or/and deflate and get scared.
I've worked around elderly people for almost 10 years, and I've had to deal with plenty of patients who suffer from PTSD and different forms of dementia. And yelling at a patient doesn't help anything, and is seen as verbal abuse.
But mindfully I have said things like "I can understand if Squirrelflight is frustrated", "I don't think Bramblestar is fit to lead right now", etc. But it doesn't take away how uncomfortable those scenes are to read, and as I also said, whether the Erins intentionally thought to write it that way or not, the way Squirrelflight is treating Bramblestar just isn't it imo. I think we are agreeing here. I do think Squilf yelling at him is inappropriate. I just mean that I (personally) don't see much point in debating whether Bramble's potential health issues make her actions worse, since regardless we are agreeing at the end of the day that her yelling is not acceptable. |
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 16:30:04 GMT -5
Hollyfall Thanks for continuing to provide excerpts! They are very interesting.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 20, 2022 16:32:33 GMT -5
That's the issue with dementia, it makes communication difficult, and also affects individuals differently. There's a reason why there's specific ways to communicate with people that suffer from conditions like this, because said people find it harder to express their words, think clearly, and forget things or repeat stuff. Yelling just doesn't help, at all. And just either makes them angry in response so they get defensive, or/and deflate and get scared.
I've worked around elderly people for almost 10 years, and I've had to deal with plenty of patients who suffer from PTSD and different forms of dementia. And yelling at a patient doesn't help anything, and is seen as verbal abuse.
But mindfully I have said things like "I can understand if Squirrelflight is frustrated", "I don't think Bramblestar is fit to lead right now", etc. But it doesn't take away how uncomfortable those scenes are to read, and as I also said, whether the Erins intentionally thought to write it that way or not, the way Squirrelflight is treating Bramblestar just isn't it imo. I think we are agreeing here. I do think Squilf yelling at him is inappropriate. I just mean that I (personally) don't see much point in debating whether Bramble's potential health issues make her actions worse, since regardless we are agreeing at the end of the day that her yelling is not acceptable. Neither yelling is acceptable. The topic of their mental health is touchy, honestly. |
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Post by littleclevergem123 on Oct 20, 2022 16:34:27 GMT -5
I don’t know why they seem desperate for bramblesquirrel to stay together. Its clear they are toxic, (both of them) and probably aren’t happy together. Nearly every arc they argue.. why do they need to be together?
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Asexual
Regal
"I may be an old fool. But at least my heart is true." - Goosefeather
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Post by Regal on Oct 20, 2022 16:44:24 GMT -5
I think old Bramble is gonna retire soon. Please Please Please don't become Mistystar 2.0
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 20, 2022 17:01:17 GMT -5
I think old Bramble is gonna retire soon. Please Please Please don't become Mistystar 2.0 maybe he'll keel over and die like an old man arguing at bingo, just like her <3 |
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Ṣanɗypaw™
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Oct 20, 2022 17:17:38 GMT -5
Tigerstar saying "Sometimes cats need to be shown when they need help" is such a horrific line. It just shows that he's basically forcefully taking over RiverClan for the meantime, and he knows it. Which is totally unacceptable and I can't see how it could be portrayed in a morally ambiguous light. |
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 20, 2022 17:34:04 GMT -5
Tigerstar saying "Sometimes cats need to be shown when they need help" is such a horrific line. It just shows that he's basically forcefully taking over RiverClan for the meantime, and he knows it. Which is totally unacceptable and I can't see how it could be portrayed in a morally ambiguous light.  |
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Post by starscream on Oct 20, 2022 17:38:09 GMT -5
i wish bramble would just die already man  its also very funny how people praise fireheart during his deputyship when he went behind bluestar's back when she was making bad decisions (also coincidentally because of mental health or something similar to dementia) but as soon as squirrelflight does it she's in the wrong LOL |
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Post by Hollyfall on Oct 20, 2022 17:38:51 GMT -5
Hollyfall Thanks for continuing to provide excerpts! They are very interesting. Of course! Happy to provide excerpts if people ask for them. |
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Post by littleclevergem123 on Oct 20, 2022 17:42:19 GMT -5
idk if you are aloud to send more- but do you have one if Nightheart gets upset because he was asked to clean the leader's den?
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Post by littleclevergem123 on Oct 20, 2022 17:47:55 GMT -5
I do wonder what Tigerheartstar thought was going to happen, like he did take almost his entire clan to RiverClan, or every cat that could fight. of course they would see it as a attack and attack them, He threatend to kill Duskfur. i don't see how he is supposed to be seen as the good guy here (i do not think he is meant to be seen as one- just saying my thoughts)
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 20, 2022 19:01:01 GMT -5
We can discuss another topic regarding the spoilers. What are your thoughts on the RiverClan plot?
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Post by Jaysnow on Oct 20, 2022 19:03:15 GMT -5
Is this one really gonna be closed like the River spoiler thread. We can discuss another topic regarding the spoilers. What are your thoughts on the RiverClan plot? i'm very intrigued by it and excited to see where it goes now that Tigerstar is leader of both RiverClan and ShadowClan like his granddaddy. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 20, 2022 19:06:26 GMT -5
We can discuss another topic regarding the spoilers. What are your thoughts on the RiverClan plot? i'm very intrigued by it and excited to see where it goes now that Tigerstar is leader of both RiverClan and ShadowClan like his granddaddy. I can't spoiler over mobile, so apologies. I'm curious how it'll end up in terms of leadership. We have suspects like Duskfur and Splashtail in RiverClan while Berryheart is so suspicious. I wonder if Berry will pull a Mudclaw/Hawkfrost on Tigerstar. |
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 20, 2022 19:08:14 GMT -5
Also Hollyfall if possible: Is there any way we could possibly get the direct context of Nightheart talking Sunbeam about wanting to switch clans? That or when he goes to ShadowClan to join them. Because I'm curious about the nuance of their possible "hollow romance", but if not that that's okay. I personally want to see if what's between them is actually romantic or not. No rush though. Honestly, I'm already exhausted as it is, so please reply when you can. |
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DM me if u want