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Post by Jaysnow on Aug 17, 2021 20:20:19 GMT -5
Kate, I have a question
How long have the sisters existed? Will we ever get a backstory?
Kate: I don’t know! It would be great to get their backstory. The ed-team might have some ideas bubbling away in the background….
I'm thinking maybe a Sisters character got SE15. I don't want a Moonlight SE really lol, what are your thoughts?
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 17, 2021 20:22:55 GMT -5
Oh god please no. I hate the Sisters enough as it is, here we go with a whole lore of super powers and having it be a-okay to abandon cats because they’re toms. They’re such a stupid concept to me personally and made me hate alot of Squirrelflight’s Hope. I have no interest in reading content for them so it’s a hard pass for me.
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Post by Jaysnow on Aug 17, 2021 20:24:32 GMT -5
Oh god please no. I hate the Sisters enough as it is, here we go with a whole lore of super powers and having it be a-okay to abandon cats because they’re toms. They’re such a stupid concept to me personally and made me hate alot of Squirrelflight’s Hope. I have no interest in reading content for them so it’s a hard pass for me. Exactly how I feel.
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Post by rabbit on Aug 17, 2021 20:38:18 GMT -5
Can’t say I would be excited to read an entire super edition or even a novella about the sisters. Tree’s novella is enough because I actually care about Tree enough to read about him.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 17, 2021 21:49:10 GMT -5
No thanks. I'd rather not read more about those trashbins, I'd rather watch paint dry.
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Post by Katanaheart on Aug 17, 2021 22:01:45 GMT -5
It seems they were an editor invention, from how the response is framed.
I would enjoy reading about them, their powers and ideology seem interesting. Perhaps even one of them realizes sending toms away at an early age is a bad thing and they can be given a choice, instead?
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Post by Rainfire on Aug 17, 2021 22:43:03 GMT -5
I personally hope not, especially if it's an entire SE
I think SqH combined with Tree's Roots was enough of an inside look into their group and ngl, I don't care about learning their history or backstory or whatever because I don't care for The Sisters in general. I hope we're just done with them after TBC
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Post by Chicken on Aug 18, 2021 0:28:53 GMT -5
I would not be happy if that happened at all. I have already seen more of The Sisters than I want to.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Aug 18, 2021 4:52:13 GMT -5
If they were to write one, they should make it a graphic novel like skyclan and the stranger. i've never read much on them, so I can't really say wether i'd like a book on them or not though.
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Post by Twilight Sparkle on Aug 18, 2021 5:43:42 GMT -5
The only reason I'd want to see a Sisters book is if they abolish the rule about sending toms away.
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Post by Mau Furlong on Aug 18, 2021 5:45:41 GMT -5
I hope we DO get a Sister SE!! The Sisters are based on my main group ive made...
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Aroace
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 18, 2021 6:05:48 GMT -5
Anything but that. The Sisters suck.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 18, 2021 17:20:09 GMT -5
I don't want a Moonlight SE really lol, what are your thoughts? KATE YOU'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. KEEP GOING THAT WAY.
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 20, 2021 11:58:26 GMT -5
The only reason I'd want to see a Sisters book is if they abolish the rule about sending toms away. I honestly think them sending toms away is fine and honestly quite interesting, along with their dislike for toms in power, like Bramblestar and Thornclaw. After all there are many female only societies in legends and myths. It's their dislike for toms as a whole and treating them like they are completely expendable that is the main (subjective) issue. If they treated them as equals but still believed it was their destiny to roam the land and not own it, then I would have little doubt that they wouldn't have become as controversial as they were. I was honestly just happy to see a little more equality shown in the books, even if it was an eye for an eye. (Sexism towards she-cats is still a major issue in Warriors today.)
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Post by Chicken on Aug 20, 2021 15:22:26 GMT -5
Dark SunHow the heck is Warriors sexist against she-cats? You know, I actually started writing an essay about this, it's a work in progress so it's pretty rambly, but this is what I have so far, to put things into perspective because you seem to have been a little misinformed. If you think Warrior Cats is sexist against females think again. Are there more toms in higher ranks than she-cats in the clans? Yes. Do high ranks really add to a character's story though? Even though Harestar is leader, we know way more about Heathertail and even more about Sedgewhisker, than we do about him. The she-cats get way deeper and intense storylines, there seems to be countless MAPS on youtube about she-cats like Mapleshade, Ivypool, Dovewing, Hollyleaf, Squirelflight, Leafpool, etc, whereas with the toms there are a lot less. Now, let's look at all the toms who are written to be terrible with love/family relationships, I also added in characters that the majority of the fandom believe to be in the wrong as well. Bramblestar Ashfur Finleap Raggedstar Onestar Spiderleg Bumblestripe Spotted Fur (mostly a fandom one) Crowfeather Sandgorse Hal Stick Reedfeather (more to be added if I think of more) Now, let's look at the same thing but with the she-cats. Rainflower Lizardstripe Nightcloud Adding onto that, the unrequited love, not excusing Ashfur AT ALL, or Bumblestripe (even though I disagree with the fandom portrayal of him), we never got to their POVs on the whole thing, whereas with Bristlefrost, we actually got to see her POV and experience what she was feeling. Not that it actually mattered because instead of turning dark, she quickly accepted it in the first book and moved on. Let's move onto the villains, and I mean the main villains so no minor ones like Darkstripe or Sleekwhisker. It is true that there is only one she-cat villain, but she is also the only villain who the authors tried to make you deeply sympathize for, all the other villains had some bad things happen to them, but they made everything bad happen to her, and to have everyone around her be terrible. They also made her reason be that her kits died and she was having paranoid delusions of her kits telling her to kill her victims, which allows people to excuse her actions, whereas with the tom villains, the majority of them were only in it for power. Also, when a she-cat kills someone it's usually some big bad tom, but whenever a tom kills someone it's usually someone innocent. I'm sorry, but I really don't see how sexism is a major issue towards she-cats in Warriors today.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 20, 2021 15:30:07 GMT -5
Oh, no thanks. I've had enough of them!
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#a3c5e6
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 20, 2021 16:00:25 GMT -5
Dark SunHow the heck is Warriors sexist against she-cats? The closest thing that comes to mind is this line from Whitewing to Dovewing. I always feel disgusted when reading it. But other than that, she-cats are treated about the same as toms. There was also Leafstar, but I don't think her being a female leader with kits was ever an official taboo and it's not something that's ever condemned by the narrative, either, and it doesn't seem like Bramblestar ever appointed a temporary deputy while Squirrelflight while in the nursery. I guess you could make an argument for Bluefur, but she was just a regular warrior at the time she was in the nursery. If you're making an argument, I personally feel like you should keep fandom out of it altogether and focus on the books themselves, but I understand what you're saying, Chicken. If I may offer a suggestion, how about focusing on male protagonists vs. female protagonists, since they clearly get the most focused? I think it'd be an interesting comparison to make.
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Post by Chicken on Aug 20, 2021 16:02:39 GMT -5
Dark Sun How the heck is Warriors sexist against she-cats? The closest thing that comes to mind is this line from Whitewing to Dovewing. I always feel disgusted when reading it. But other than that, she-cats are treated about the same as toms. There was also Leafstar, but I don't think her being a female leader with kits was ever an official taboo and it's not something that's ever condemned by the narrative, either, and it doesn't seem like Bramblestar ever appointed a temporary deputy while Squirrelflight while in the nursery. I guess you could make an argument for Bluefur, but she was just a regular warrior at the time she was in the nursery. If you're making an argument, I personally feel like you should keep fandom out of it altogether and focus on the books themselves, but I understand what you're saying, Chicken . If I may offer a suggestion, how about focusing on male protagonists vs. female protagonists, since they clearly get the most focused? I think it'd be an interesting comparison to make. That's a really good idea, thanks, and I agree about that comment from Whitewing being disgusting.
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Post by rabbit on Aug 20, 2021 16:09:10 GMT -5
Chicken I can say the most blatant example of sexism towards female characters in this series is Bluestar being convinced she wouldn't be selected for deputy because she was a queen at that time. So she fakes the deaths of her kits to become a warrior again. If Bluestar was the most eligible cat for deputy, she still should have been chosen, queen or not. She has a whole clan to help raise her kits while fulfilling her role as a deputy. Besides, when she-cats become queens after being deputy/leader, they don't suddenly get demoted (Squirrelflight, Windstar). Other examples I can think of also involve she-cats having the burden of being pregnant and raising kits, especially in forbidden relationships. Imagine if Leafpool and Crowfeather swapped sexes. Leafpool would never have to worry about losing her role as a medicine cat or convincing her sister to fake their birth. Meanwhile, Crowfeather would have to bear the burden of his clanmates being suspicious of him and his kits for giving birth to probably half-clan cats. Punishment is weighted heavily on she-cats.
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 20, 2021 16:22:36 GMT -5
The closest thing that comes to mind is this line from Whitewing to Dovewing. I always feel disgusted when reading it. But other than that, she-cats are treated about the same as toms. There was also Leafstar, but I don't think her being a female leader with kits was ever an official taboo and it's not something that's ever condemned by the narrative, either, and it doesn't seem like Bramblestar ever appointed a temporary deputy while Squirrelflight while in the nursery. I guess you could make an argument for Bluefur, but she was just a regular warrior at the time she was in the nursery. If you're making an argument, I personally feel like you should keep fandom out of it altogether and focus on the books themselves, but I understand what you're saying, Chicken . If I may offer a suggestion, how about focusing on male protagonists vs. female protagonists, since they clearly get the most focused? I think it'd be an interesting comparison to make. That's a really good idea, thanks, and I agree about that comment from Whitewing being disgusting. Yep, it's mostly about how she-cats are pressured by toms to have kits. Numerous examples exist, including the one above. Leaders are often discouraged from having kits and medicine cat she-cats are outright forbidden, but this one is debatable. A lot of it has to do with not what is written, but how it is written. rabbit sums is up pretty well as well.
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on Aug 20, 2021 16:33:34 GMT -5
I honestly wouldn't mind a novella or SE. Their culture would be quite interesting to explore.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 20, 2021 16:40:35 GMT -5
The closest thing, as already mentioned, was the situation with Whitewing.
As for Bluestar, that situation is debatable, considering maternal leave is a thing in general.
While Finleap is the only tom that's blatantly demanded kits from a she-cat, but I never nearly see his behavior discussed compared to other toms.
I also don't think Leafstar and Bluestar are good comparisons in general, since Leafstar is leader of SkyClan and SkyClan doesn't run by the same social laws as the other four clans.
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 20, 2021 16:45:49 GMT -5
I also don't think Leafstar and Bluestar are good comparisons in general, since Leafstar is leader of SkyClan and SkyClan doesn't run by the same social laws as the other four clans. ...Yet.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 20, 2021 16:52:11 GMT -5
I also don't think Leafstar and Bluestar are good comparisons in general, since Leafstar is leader of SkyClan and SkyClan doesn't run by the same social laws as the other four clans. ...Yet. Sure it's possible in the future, but considering how they were treated in AVoS, and were willing to leave than deal with the other four clan's bs, I don't think so. Or it'll be a long while after Leafstar's time before that happens. Even when it came to the situation with the imposter, SkyClan is still blatantly not following along like mindless sheep with the other clans. And it's most likely due to the generational pain they've suffered.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Aug 20, 2021 16:53:52 GMT -5
That's a really good idea, thanks, and I agree about that comment from Whitewing being disgusting. Yep, it's mostly about how she-cats are pressured by toms to have kits. Numerous examples exist, including the one above. Leaders are often discouraged from having kits and medicine cat she-cats are outright forbidden, but this one is debatable. A lot of it has to do with not what is written, but how it is written. rabbit sums is up pretty well as well. The only instance of a female leader being slightly discouraged from having kits was Leafstar, who went and had kits with Billystorm anyways because Echosong (a female medicine cat) couldn't really keep her from having them if she wanted to. Speaking of medicine cats, all of them (not just she cats) are forbidden from taking a mate or having kits.
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Post by rabbit on Aug 20, 2021 16:54:17 GMT -5
As for Bluestar, that situation is debatable, considering maternal leave is a thing in general. I wouldn't considered Bluestar's situation maternity leave, more like being denied a promotion. Being denied a promotion for being pregnant or having given birth recently is discriminatory and illegal (at least in the US). Bluestar should have been able to raise her kits while not having to worry she wouldn't be eligible for deputy in her leader's eyes.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 20, 2021 16:58:03 GMT -5
Numerous examples exist, including the one above. Leaders are often discouraged from having kits and medicine cat she-cats are outright forbidden, but this one is debatable. Leafstar was the only leader who was discouraged from having kits, but she wasn't even completely sure if it was an actual taboo or not since Firestar never told her and SkyClan does things differently anyway. And it'd be one thing if the narrative condemned her choice to be with Billystorm and it clearly didn't. Also, medicine cats are forbidden from having kits regardless of their gender. She-cats would have a tougher time hiding a potential pregnancy for obvious reasons, but that's not sexism, it's basic biology.
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 20, 2021 17:18:57 GMT -5
The only reason I'd want to see a Sisters book is if they abolish the rule about sending toms away. I honestly think them sending toms away is fine and honestly quite interesting, along with their dislike for toms in power, like Bramblestar and Thornclaw. After all there are many female only societies in legends and myths. It's their dislike for toms as a whole and treating them like they are completely expendable that is the main (subjective) issue. If they treated them as equals but still believed it was their destiny to roam the land and not own it, then I would have little doubt that they wouldn't have become as controversial as they were. I was honestly just happy to see a little more equality shown in the books, even if it was an eye for an eye. (Sexism towards she-cats is still a major issue in Warriors today.) Sending away cats for a trait they can't control really isn't fine at all. If the situations were flipped with toms sending the she-cats away I doubt anyone would be saying that "it's fine."
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Post by Dark Sun on Aug 20, 2021 17:20:15 GMT -5
I honestly think them sending toms away is fine and honestly quite interesting, along with their dislike for toms in power, like Bramblestar and Thornclaw. After all there are many female only societies in legends and myths. It's their dislike for toms as a whole and treating them like they are completely expendable that is the main (subjective) issue. If they treated them as equals but still believed it was their destiny to roam the land and not own it, then I would have little doubt that they wouldn't have become as controversial as they were. I was honestly just happy to see a little more equality shown in the books, even if it was an eye for an eye. (Sexism towards she-cats is still a major issue in Warriors today.) Sending away cats for a trait they can't control really isn't fine at all. If the situations were flipped with toms sending the she-cats away I doubt anyone would be saying that "it's fine." Okay, fair point. Maybe giving toms and she-cats the option to leave and wander the land for whatever spiritual hullabaloo would have been better?
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 20, 2021 17:21:37 GMT -5
Sending away cats for a trait they can't control really isn't fine at all. If the situations were flipped with toms sending the she-cats away I doubt anyone would be saying that "it's fine." Okay, fair point. Maybe giving toms and she-cats the option to leave and wander the land for whatever spiritual hullabaloo would have been better? It would have been better. Only making the toms do it is extraordinarily sexist.
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