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Post by Showers on Jun 8, 2021 16:50:36 GMT -5
don't call native people indians, they aren't indian. that shouldn't be up for debate, especially if you're white and/or non-native. their are so many better terms than using indian.
how'd this thread go from "don't support cat game with racist devs" to "calling indigenous ppl indians is okay because an irl said so"
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 8, 2021 16:53:27 GMT -5
don't call native people indians, they aren't indian. that shouldn't be up for debate, especially if you're white and/or non-native. their are so many better terms than using indian. how'd this thread go from "don't support cat game with racist devs" to "calling indigenous ppl indians is okay because an irl said so" I noticed it's mostly elders that still use the term 'indian' or natives who grew up not knowing of their heritage that use this term. But for people of my age group (mid 20's) we use the term First Nations, aboriginal, indigenous, Native American.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 8, 2021 16:55:57 GMT -5
imo if you're going to portray indigenous people in fiction or base a society off of them you should pick a specific tribe or group of tribes for inspiration and stick to it, because the tribes are so different from eachother. the mi'kmaq for example are very different from the navajo, since they live in vastly different climates and their languages evolved separately iirc This! And really, this can apply to just about culture that's not your own, not just indigenous people. If you're going to write about a specific culture or race, either get a sensitivity reader or at the very least do as much research as you possibly can (luckily, with the internet, you can now do both, but I personally prefer the former), but be aware that certain groups aren't monoliths, either, just like how people in general aren't. And by all means, support minorities and spread awareness, but do it in a way that's not going to come off as dramatic. Buy directly from them if you can. And for books, if you don't want to give them away for whatever reason, then there are plenty of arts and crafts ideas out there to turn unwanted ones into something else.
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Post by Mothdapple on Jun 8, 2021 17:02:47 GMT -5
I had no idea this would get out of proportion to this level.
If one of the mods could lock the thread that would be great! I only meant to raise awareness on a popular Warriors game and the horrible words and actions of their devs and mods, not cause a full-brown off-topic discussion about Indigenous culture and dos and do-nots.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Jun 8, 2021 17:03:23 GMT -5
Unfortunately. Perhaps we should all just be aware, try not to create any potentially offensive work (on a group level; on an individual level, that would be hard to avoid), and if you are unsure about something and/or it's a slippery slope, to just avoid it entirely, such as the inclusion of Tribal communities within literature or other forms of entertainment. *Shrug* I think that's a reasonable compromise. I don't mind people including indigenous people in their works, as long as they have people from that specific community they wish to write on educating them on what is appropriate and what isn't. But that's also a mess in itself, because whereas some communities are open to talk about their customs, others are not. There's also the complication where you might create an idea and hope it's your own, when you might be appropriating an aspect of an already existing Indigenous tribe without even knowing it.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 8, 2021 17:03:25 GMT -5
imo if you're going to portray indigenous people in fiction or base a society off of them you should pick a specific tribe or group of tribes for inspiration and stick to it, because the tribes are so different from eachother. the mi'kmaq for example are very different from the navajo, since they live in vastly different climates and their languages evolved separately iirc This! And really, this can apply to just about culture that's not your own, not just indigenous people. If you're going to write about a specific culture or race, either get a sensitivity reader or at the very least do as much research as you possibly can (luckily, with the internet, you can now do both, but I personally prefer the former), but be aware that certain groups aren't monoliths, either, just like how people in general aren't. And by all means, support minorities and spread awareness, but do it in a way that's not going to come off as dramatic. Buy directly from them if you can. And for books, if you don't want to give them away for whatever reason, then there are plenty of arts and crafts ideas out there to turn unwanted ones into something else. Agreed, especially when it comes to outdated books on specific groups by anthropologists who used words such as 'primitive', 'barbaric', etc, when talking about customs/traditions members of a community would do (ex: tanning hides). It is honestly better to ask people of the community of research (such as elders) as to what can be used and whatnot. Sometimes internet isn't always reliable because like Wikipedia, a troll can easily delete or enter info that's not reliable.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Jun 8, 2021 17:05:49 GMT -5
I had no idea this would get out of proportion to this level. If one of the mods could lock the thread that would be great! I only meant to raise awareness on a popular Warriors game and the horrible words and actions of their devs and mods, not cause a full-brown off-topic discussion about Indigenous culture and dos and do-nots. Sorry. Edit: Perhaps instead all the off topic banter could be moved to its own thread?
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Post by Mothdapple on Jun 8, 2021 17:10:20 GMT -5
I had no idea this would get out of proportion to this level. If one of the mods could lock the thread that would be great! I only meant to raise awareness on a popular Warriors game and the horrible words and actions of their devs and mods, not cause a full-brown off-topic discussion about Indigenous culture and dos and do-nots. Sorry. Edit: Perhaps instead all the off topic banter could be moved to its own thread? Maybe in off-topic discussions! I don’t think this conversation has a place in Warriors general.
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Jun 8, 2021 17:12:10 GMT -5
Sorry. Edit: Perhaps instead all the off topic banter could be moved to its own thread? Maybe in off-topic discussions! I don’t think this conversation has a place in Warriors general. Cool! Otherwise it might come across as censorship or something. Besides, things are getting a bit more civil right now... *Pulls on the neck of my shirt* This discussion is healthy imo.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 8, 2021 17:16:00 GMT -5
I've heard a couple of POC claim the entire series is propaganda from the alt-right, and it is my duty, my responsibility, as a white person to believe them, and the same goes for all whites. I wouldn't be a good ally if I turned my back to them. this is what i was warning against. this is a growing perspective -- that white people (or anyone outside a given community) must unquestioningly accept and support whatever members of a marginalized group tell them. you do not have a "duty [...] as a white person" to absolutely believe/endorse every opinion that a POC has. listen to them! give their views substantial weight considering their background! but you should still, like, think critically. at the end of the day, they're people with subjective views just like anyone else. edit: oops sorry didnt see the lock request
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Non-binary
#F4B548
Name Colour
Dark Sun
Sage of the Stars
I'm devious, I'm devilish, I'm ever so deliciously evil
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Post by Dark Sun on Jun 8, 2021 17:22:39 GMT -5
I've heard a couple of POC claim the entire series is propaganda from the alt-right, and it is my duty, my responsibility, as a white person to believe them, and the same goes for all whites. I wouldn't be a good ally if I turned my back to them. this is what i was warning against. this is a growing perspective -- that white people (or anyone outside a given community) must unquestioningly accept and support whatever members of a marginalized group tell them. you do not have a "duty [...] as a white person" to absolutely believe/endorse every opinion that a POC has. listen to them! give their views substantial weight considering their background! but you should still, like, think critically. at the end of the day, they're people with subjective views just like anyone else. edit: oops sorry didnt see the lock request Final reply, I promise! I am in partial agreement there. If a POC says that something is offensive, maybe it's just me, but I'm not going to disagree, because they're POC and I'm not. But I will weigh it with other arguments from POC. If a POC or a person in a culture I'm not a part of says "x is offensive" I'll consider that, but I always find arguments more convincing if they can tell everyone why it's offensive. If someone said "Warriors is offensive", I'd be like, "Okay, how?" But plenty of people I have encountered have given many good constructive and honestly reasonable points. Ex. Everything about the Tribe. Just saying. No, not all voices from POC are equal. It's just common sense. If 100 people say 1 thing and 1 person disagrees but provides no compelling counterargument, there's a decent chance that that 1 person might be misguided, or is looking too deep into things, or something of that nature. Or perhaps it's because they are not convincing at all. (BUT I will still weigh their opinion; none shall be excluded under my watch.) I take points most seriously when they are universally agreed upon (or through the majority) and if the evidence presented is convincing and can be proven as such.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Jun 8, 2021 17:25:48 GMT -5
imo if you're going to portray indigenous people in fiction or base a society off of them you should pick a specific tribe or group of tribes for inspiration and stick to it, because the tribes are so different from eachother. the mi'kmaq for example are very different from the navajo, since they live in vastly different climates and their languages evolved separately iirc This! And really, this can apply to just about culture that's not your own, not just indigenous people. If you're going to write about a specific culture or race, either get a sensitivity reader or at the very least do as much research as you possibly can (luckily, with the internet, you can now do both, but I personally prefer the former), but be aware that certain groups aren't monoliths, either, just like how people in general aren't. And by all means, support minorities and spread awareness, but do it in a way that's not going to come off as dramatic. Buy directly from them if you can. And for books, if you don't want to give them away for whatever reason, then there are plenty of arts and crafts ideas out there to turn unwanted ones into something else. agreed! i like to make characters inspired by different cultures and i do a lot of research to make sure that i'm being as accurate as possible. obv everyone will make mistakes or overlook things and it's very time-consuming but the result is very rewarding imo. tbh this goes for writing about any subject you don't have extensive knowledge in; DO RESEARCH and yeah i find it really irritating when people use one or two examples of people from an oppressed group as the gold standard opinion even when they are very much a minority and most other members of the group do not agree with them. i see it a lot with issues of sexism in video games since I'm a woman who loves them. i think its important to listen to a variety of opinions from minority groups so that you aren't cherrypicking the ones you want EDIT: CRAP sorry i didnt see the lock request. this is my final reply here. if you want to continue discussing this we can take it to PM or an off-topic thread
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Asexual
#07B04C
star_black.png
Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Jun 8, 2021 17:28:20 GMT -5
Last reply- it's good to see this topic was resolved nicely.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Jun 8, 2021 17:28:57 GMT -5
This! And really, this can apply to just about culture that's not your own, not just indigenous people. If you're going to write about a specific culture or race, either get a sensitivity reader or at the very least do as much research as you possibly can (luckily, with the internet, you can now do both, but I personally prefer the former), but be aware that certain groups aren't monoliths, either, just like how people in general aren't. And by all means, support minorities and spread awareness, but do it in a way that's not going to come off as dramatic. Buy directly from them if you can. And for books, if you don't want to give them away for whatever reason, then there are plenty of arts and crafts ideas out there to turn unwanted ones into something else. agreed! i like to make characters inspired by different cultures and i do a lot of research to make sure that i'm being as accurate as possible. obv everyone will make mistakes or overlook things and it's very time-consuming but the result is very rewarding imo. tbh this goes for writing about any subject you don't have extensive knowledge in; DO RESEARCH and yeah i find it really irritating when people use one or two examples of people from an oppressed group as the gold standard opinion even when they are very much a minority and most other members of the group do not agree with them. i see it a lot with issues of sexism in video games since I'm a woman who loves them. i think its important to listen to a variety of opinions from minority groups so that you aren't cherrypicking the ones you want EDIT: CRAP sorry i didnt see the lock request. this is my final reply here. if you want to continue discussing this we can take it to PM or an off-topic thread An off topic thread sounds nice~
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Jun 8, 2021 19:33:44 GMT -5
I had no idea this would get out of proportion to this level. If one of the mods could lock the thread that would be great! I only meant to raise awareness on a popular Warriors game and the horrible words and actions of their devs and mods, not cause a full-brown off-topic discussion about Indigenous culture and dos and do-nots. Best to report, and request it there. Sand or Mint will be more likely to see it there
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Post by Mothdapple on Jun 8, 2021 19:54:16 GMT -5
Hopefully the last post here but:
The OP made an updated twitter thread now that the whole situation is pretty much over. I recommend you check it out.
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