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Post by cygna on May 21, 2021 19:47:22 GMT -5
Okay I knew this thread would be controversial(or disagreeable) when I made so I was cool if people don’t feel the same as I do. But I honestly feel like some people are being kind of rude. I also feel like my opinion was being attacked but maybe people didn’t actually mean it that way. I just wanted to say don’t call someone’s thoughts laughable or something of the sort. People can misinterpret things as I may have and it’s a little hurtful. Rowanstar has always been a sensitive topic around here since AVoS. A lot of us are still angry about Tigerheartstar I didn't know that. I wasn't apart of the forum during AVoS. I always just assumed Rowanstar wasn't talked about too much. I honesty didn't remember how much I hated him until a few threads recently though I never liked him even from the start. I'm also pretty angry about Tiger2 as well. Dawnpelt FTW.
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Post by vectoring34 on May 21, 2021 19:51:41 GMT -5
This, and not to mention both Ambermoon and Tigerheart, full grown Warriors, were killed by large birds and they were much stronger, faster and more equipped to survive an attack. Needlepaw, a young apprentice on her first day of training would be a very understandable assumption of a death sentence. Yes, it was a traumatic experience, but in the same way Thunderclan couldn’t afford to spend more time and resources on searching after Dovewing when she left, I don’t blame Shadowclan for assuming she was absolutely going to be dead and not sending patrols out to search for bird prey. Even then, the intent was still never malicious either. Shadowclan doesn’t deserve what Needletail brought to them simply for thinking the obvious. I could be wrong, but wasn't it that in RS when Brackenfur goes after Snowkit, everyone else around them are agreeing that was pointless? Yep. Fireheart and Swiftpaw both say it was useless, no cat ever raised the notion that successfully recovering a cat from the talons of a raptor was realistically possible.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 21, 2021 21:12:46 GMT -5
Rowanstar has always been a sensitive topic around here since AVoS. A lot of us are still angry about Tigerheartstar I didn't know that. I wasn't apart of the forum during AVoS. I always just assumed Rowanstar wasn't talked about too much. I honesty didn't remember how much I hated him until a few threads recently though I never liked him even from the start. I'm also pretty angry about Tiger2 as well. Dawnpelt FTW. Yeah. It was a big discussion. A lot of us feel like Rowan was put down and constantly made to look bad in order to boost Tiger2 up I know Moonblazer and I especially are pro-Rowanstar
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Post by Moonblazer on May 21, 2021 21:22:27 GMT -5
I didn't know that. I wasn't apart of the forum during AVoS. I always just assumed Rowanstar wasn't talked about too much. I honesty didn't remember how much I hated him until a few threads recently though I never liked him even from the start. I'm also pretty angry about Tiger2 as well. Dawnpelt FTW. Yeah. It was a big discussion. A lot of us feel like Rowan was put down and constantly made to look bad in order to boost Tiger2 up I know Moonblazer and I especially are pro-Rowanstar I just hated the way they utterly destroyed his self-esteem to the point that he blamed himself for everything and was completely unable to handle it anymore, when he genuinely seemed like a leader that could have been an even better Nightstar-esque leader for once in Shadowclan. It was all just so unfair, especially considering I was so excited for a fresh new leader that wasn’t Fire or Tiger kin. The way he died was just so miserable to read about too, by his own granddaughter who also helped drown his daughter. He died with none of his kits alive or present, and he died protecting kits and not blaming any of his clanmates. He took all the blame when it wasn’t fully his fault. As bad of a leader he seemed at times, he had moments of strong honor and morals, like refusing to launch a War against Windclan for Onestar’s refusal of herbs, he wouldn’t have supported his clan holding Twigpaw captive like rouges during his sickness, he wanted his clanmates to talk civilly at the gathering to address their grievances rather than launch right onto an attack. He forgave his clanmates completely even when Tawnypelt was not ready to, and he clearly loved them even after they had torn him to shreds and kicked him out. He could have been a great leader had they given him the chance instead of his son. I think the worst part is that Tigerstar is a massive ass in the recent books and has shown to be right back to that aggressive, forceful leadership that I really wanted Shadowclan to get away from for once. Nothing has really changed in Shadowclan, Tigerstar’s still a jerk alot of the time.
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Post by cygna on May 21, 2021 21:24:58 GMT -5
I didn't know that. I wasn't apart of the forum during AVoS. I always just assumed Rowanstar wasn't talked about too much. I honesty didn't remember how much I hated him until a few threads recently though I never liked him even from the start. I'm also pretty angry about Tiger2 as well. Dawnpelt FTW. Yeah. It was a big discussion. A lot of us feel like Rowan was put down and constantly made to look bad in order to boost Tiger2 up I know Moonblazer and I especially are pro-Rowanstar I actually hate Tigerheart(less) more than Rowanstar. Thing's must have been wild at the time. If I heard a bunch of people praising Tigerstar II I'd probably become pro Rowanstar too, who didn't do half the shit his son pulled. Rowansar made bad choices mixed with a little bad luck but Tiger2 is actual garbage who listen's to no one and has an insane amount of plot armor I'm desperate to rip off.
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Post by wolfcry32 on May 22, 2021 9:46:14 GMT -5
I used to be a very staunch Rowanstar supporter. I mean, I still am. But I am certainly more willing to see both sides rather than just saying, “oh those kids were rude and mean” and “rowanstar did nothing wrong” as I once did.
As far as Violetshine, absolutely. No way to try forgive Rowanstar for that.
With Needletail and the other apprentices...it gets interesting. As far as we know her issues with Rowanstar and ShadowClan begin with the incident where she was grabbed by an owl. While sure, being grabbed by a bird if prey is more often than not a death sentence, one would think there would be at least chase given if even for a short while. And while cats don’t survive long enough to even think about the logistics of a search party being sent out, I would imagine they would think it would happen. So when Needletail returned back to ShadowClan camp to see no course of action taken, it hurt. They began acting out and being disrespectful. While not really justified...eh.
And here’s where I’m about to make an interesting comparison. The way Needtail’s story plays out reminds me of work.
Being a warrior is a job of course. Their employer is the clan leader. When a job begins to no longer be an adequate environment, an employee may leave for a better job. Now, I would consider no action taken to even try and search for you a reason to resent your job. At first they’re going to try and push through it, maybe they start doing their job a little less than perfect. Maybe they start being passive aggressive or maybe outright disrespectful. At least until they find a new job. It looks appealing, it looks like it could provide more than the current one so they leave.
While Needletail didn’t “leave” in that exact sense, I get it.
I love him but Rowanstar became a doormat for no reason. And by the time he tried to take charge again it was simply too late.
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