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Sunbeam
May 17, 2021 21:28:50 GMT -5
Post by cygna on May 17, 2021 21:28:50 GMT -5
Anyone else exited for her to be an MC? I actually really am.
I love Shadowclan and really want to like more Shadowclan cats. I'm just praying she didn't inherit her grandad's annoying personality.
Did anyone remember she's Needletail's lil sis? I almost forgot that.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 17, 2021 21:32:06 GMT -5
If her character revolves around Needletail in any way, shape or form, it’s gonna be an instant dislike for me. Sunbeam hopefully will be a cool Shadowclan cat.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 17, 2021 21:52:49 GMT -5
If her character revolves around Needletail in any way, shape or form, it’s gonna be an instant dislike for me. Sunbeam hopefully will be a cool Shadowclan cat. I second this!
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Post by Snowfire on May 17, 2021 21:57:33 GMT -5
I wonder if she's outcasted by her Clan-mates because of what Needletail has done.
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Post by cygna on May 17, 2021 22:07:41 GMT -5
I personally quite enjoyed Needletail as a character but I sincerely doubt Sunbeam's arc will have anything to do with her dead sister in the slightest. She hasn't even met Needletail. If the Erins remember that their related the most we may get is a throwaway line about it so I wouldn't be all that worried, heck the arc is even called the starless clan so likely no spirit ghost Needletail either.
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#FF55A3
Name Colour
Apricity
Bravelands is too slept on.
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Sunbeam
May 17, 2021 22:23:44 GMT -5
Post by Apricity on May 17, 2021 22:23:44 GMT -5
At first, I thought MC meant medicine cat and got confused.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 17, 2021 22:32:30 GMT -5
So long as she hasn't inherited anything from Scorchfur and we see her interact with Spireclaw, I'm good.
Given the arc's title however, I'm wondering if she'll end up developing a somewhat cynical personality towards StarClan or even Clan life in general (kinda like Needletail did, but to a much lesser extreme), especially given the time she grew up in. It'd be a great contrast to Flamepaw (who seems to be our anxious apprentice for this arc) and Frostpaw (who seems to be the more eager of the three).
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 17, 2021 22:34:52 GMT -5
I personally quite enjoyed Needletail as a character but I sincerely doubt Sunbeam's arc will have anything to do with her dead sister in the slightest. She hasn't even met Needletail. Her quite recently dead littermate Hallowspring however may actually matter to the Sunbeam we are introduced too next arc. Hollowspring is still alive. The dead ShadowClan cats are Strikestone and Frondwhisker.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 17, 2021 22:38:18 GMT -5
i've always liked sunbeam! her name and description r pretty and i cant wait to actually see her in the spotlight for once. judging on the other replies here, i have an unpopular opinion: i hope sunbeam has more edge to her like scorchfur. if she has a less aggressive version of scorchfur's outspokeness, i'll like her. i don't want another bland nice cat like bristlefrost
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Post by kitters on May 17, 2021 22:39:34 GMT -5
Strikestone died? man. rip Dawnpelt's entire litter.
I will probably like sunbeam. It would be funny if her personality was the exact opposite of what her name implies tho.
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Sunbeam
May 17, 2021 22:53:31 GMT -5
Post by cygna on May 17, 2021 22:53:31 GMT -5
I personally quite enjoyed Needletail as a character but I sincerely doubt Sunbeam's arc will have anything to do with her dead sister in the slightest. She hasn't even met Needletail. Her quite recently dead littermate Hallowspring however may actually matter to the Sunbeam we are introduced too next arc. Hollowspring is still alive. The dead ShadowClan cats are Strikestone and Frondwhisker. Oh your right, Sorry I got him mixed up with someone else. All these background cats are so darn forgettable. I'll go edit that so no one gets confused.
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Sunbeam
May 17, 2021 23:12:18 GMT -5
Post by cygna on May 17, 2021 23:12:18 GMT -5
Strikestone died? man. rip Dawnpelt's entire litter. I will probably like sunbeam. It would be funny if her personality was the exact opposite of what her name implies tho. Sleekwhisker may have not kicked the bucket yet but yeah she's dead to her mentor who's now leader so likely Shadowclan as well. Which makes be wonder why this himbo was even allowed to become leader after training a cat that turned evil/killed former leader, had half clan affair for moons, and abandoned clan because of said affair. Man these guys must have been desperate cuz he should be considered a traitor not holy leader. Wow I got carried of but poor Strikestone & Dawnpelt indeed and I really want Sunbeam to be a sunbeam too, would be nice contrast to salty af Needletail. btw sorry if anyone's a Tigerstar II fan, just ignore the stuff I said about him since it was off topic anyways.
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Post by kitters on May 17, 2021 23:19:05 GMT -5
Strikestone died? man. rip Dawnpelt's entire litter. I will probably like sunbeam. It would be funny if her personality was the exact opposite of what her name implies tho. Sleekwhisker may have not kicked the bucket yet but yeah she's dead to her mentor who's now leader so likely Shadowclan as well. Which makes be wonder why this himbo was even allowed to become leader after training a cat that turned evil/killed former leader, had half clan affair for moons, and abandoned clan because of said affair. Man these guys must have been desperate cuz he should be considered a traitor not holy leader. Wow I got carried of but poor Strikestone & Dawnpelt indeed and I really want Sunbeam to be a sunbeam too, would be nice contrast to salty af Needletail. btw sorry if anyone's a Tigerstar II fan, just ignore the stuff I said about him since it was off topic anyways. I will never not be mad that Dawnpelt died while Tigerheart became leader, it should have been the other way around (Dawnstar would have been so much more interesting smfh)
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Post by cygna on May 17, 2021 23:41:01 GMT -5
Sleekwhisker may have not kicked the bucket yet but yeah she's dead to her mentor who's now leader so likely Shadowclan as well. Which makes be wonder why this himbo was even allowed to become leader after training a cat that turned evil/killed former leader, had half clan affair for moons, and abandoned clan because of said affair. Man these guys must have been desperate cuz he should be considered a traitor not holy leader. Wow I got carried of but poor Strikestone & Dawnpelt indeed and I really want Sunbeam to be a sunbeam too, would be nice contrast to salty af Needletail. btw sorry if anyone's a Tigerstar II fan, just ignore the stuff I said about him since it was off topic anyways. I will never not be mad that Dawnpelt died while Tigerheart became leader, it should have been the other way around (Dawnstar would have been so much more interesting smfh) I hand's down agree so hard. Dawnpelt was always loyal and worked hard all her life. I used to say her mate Crowfrost was cool and would have done better than Tigerfart but my girl Dawnpelt held so much power that that the Erins seemed to forget about. Dawnpelt would have also been a much more sympathetic character than Traitorstar 2, her bro she loves very much dies, all three of her kids betray their clan and she goes after them and dies. but it would have been so much cooler if she lived. She would have had to live with the fact her own daughter killed he dad and if she became leader and the Juniperclaw plot still happened she would also have another terrible kid to deal with and everything would pile up, she would maybe stop trusting people even her closest ones and unlike Bluestar she would have had the freakin right to. Now that's a character I would legitimatly root for, not her rule breaking, dark forest training, toxic, manipulative devil of a brother(who deserved nothing, most certainly not the clan he betrayed numerous times). I'm actually crying now over Dawnpelt now and what could have been...
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 18, 2021 0:09:36 GMT -5
Strikestone died? man. rip Dawnpelt's entire litter. I will probably like sunbeam. It would be funny if her personality was the exact opposite of what her name implies tho. The books keep doing every member of Tawnypelt's family BUT Tigerstar dirty. Dawnpelt and Strikestone should still be alive because they are precious beans
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Post by *Ottersplash* on May 18, 2021 0:11:10 GMT -5
I will never not be mad that Dawnpelt died while Tigerheart became leader, it should have been the other way around (Dawnstar would have been so much more interesting smfh) I hand's down agree so hard. Dawnpelt was always loyal and worked hard all her life. I used to say her mate Crowfrost was cool and would have done better than Tigerfart but my girl Dawnpelt held so much power that that the Erins seemed to forget about. Dawnpelt would have also been a much more sympathetic character than Traitorstar 2, her bro she loves very much dies, all three of her kids betray their clan and she goes after them and dies. but it would have been so much cooler if she lived. She would have had to live with the fact her own daughter killed he dad and if she became leader and the Juniperclaw plot still happened she would also have another terrible kid to deal with and everything would pile up, she would maybe stop trusting people even her closest ones and unlike Bluestar she would have had the freakin right to. Now that's a character I would legitimatly root for, not her rule breaking, dark forest training, toxic, manipulative devil of a brother(who deserved nothing, most certainly not the clan he betrayed numerous times). I'm actually crying now over Dawnpelt now and what could have been... I'm glad someone else loves Dawnpelt. I appreciate her devotion to literally her entire family. Yeah, she shouldn't have yelled at Jayfeather but I give her a break because she was grieving so heavily. Imagine if Crowfrost had lived and we got Crowstar with a Dawnpelt deputy. I think they would have been a wonderful power couple
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 1:51:29 GMT -5
If her character revolves around Needletail in any way, shape or form, it’s gonna be an instant dislike for me. Sunbeam hopefully will be a cool Shadowclan cat. I mean could be because she has to deal with Needle's reputation and her wanting to get away from that? Like Root with Tree initially. Would make sense, Sunbeam has never met Needle, and I'm pretty sure ShadowClan in general have a distaste for the apprentices that rebelled.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 1:59:21 GMT -5
I will never not be mad that Dawnpelt died while Tigerheart became leader, it should have been the other way around (Dawnstar would have been so much more interesting smfh) I hand's down agree so hard. Dawnpelt was always loyal and worked hard all her life. I used to say her mate Crowfrost was cool and would have done better than Tigerfart but my girl Dawnpelt held so much power that that the Erins seemed to forget about. Dawnpelt would have also been a much more sympathetic character than Traitorstar 2, her bro she loves very much dies, all three of her kids betray their clan and she goes after them and dies. but it would have been so much cooler if she lived. She would have had to live with the fact her own daughter killed he dad and if she became leader and the Juniperclaw plot still happened she would also have another terrible kid to deal with and everything would pile up, she would maybe stop trusting people even her closest ones and unlike Bluestar she would have had the freakin right to. Now that's a character I would legitimatly root for, not her rule breaking, dark forest training, toxic, manipulative devil of a brother(who deserved nothing, most certainly not the clan he betrayed numerous times). I'm actually crying now over Dawnpelt now and what could have been... It's wild cause Dawnpelt also had ambition and wanted to be leader, it was said in Night Whisperers, while they were proclaiming it and play fighting in front of Rowanstar. Like Rowan knew both of them wanted to be deputy one day but he chooses the worse of the two...which has always bothered and annoyed me. Dawnpelt was like...right there?? Also this is why I'm so bugged by the amount of slack Sleekwhisker's character gets in comparison to Needletail in the fandom. Sleekwhisker most likely helped drown her own mother, killed several of her clanmates, and tried to ice both her grandparents but only got one of them. She also helped drown one of her best friends, Needletail, then drugged the other and kidnapped her kits while also having no qualms taking their lives for leverage. She's a truly horrible character that honestly did way more damage to ShadowClan as a whole than Needletail ever did, but I rarely ever see her get flack for it. I'll forever be bitter about Rowan choosing Tiger over Dawn, and also Sleekwhisker helping drown her later. Even more so knowing that Sleekwhisker is now her only sole surviving kit, like Dawnpelt deserved way better. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ Also, I agree, I know many don't like Scorchfur, but I personally like him. He's one of the few ShadowClan cats that actually have a personality and aren't generically self-righteous or boring, not to mention he has morals but can also be cowardly at times. But I think he can also make up for that with his caring side, when it comes to his his family, and especially with how proud he is of them. I love that he was trying to defend his daughter when she tried to rejoin, even defying Leafstar at one point, because he genuinely still loved her. Or how proud and supporting he was of Cloverfoot when she was named deputy, like the dude is a great father and mate. Would love to see moments between him and Sunbeam. Like if she's a little rascal hanging out with her grumpy grandfather and sweet grandmother that is Snowbird, I would love that.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 18, 2021 2:25:28 GMT -5
If her character revolves around Needletail in any way, shape or form, it’s gonna be an instant dislike for me. Sunbeam hopefully will be a cool Shadowclan cat. I mean could be because she has to deal with Needle's reputation and her wanting to get away from that? Like Root with Tree initially. Would make sense, Sunbeam has never met Needle, and I'm pretty sure ShadowClan in general have a distaste for the apprentices that rebelled. Yeah, the only cats who really seem to even still like Needletail are Tree, Alderheart, and Violetshine, and this makes sense considering the last memories they have of her were witnessing her good side, but even then, LS heavily implies that Violetshine's feelings have become pretty complicated since then if she got uncomfortable when Tree mentioned her, nor has she ever mentioned her to her kits, one of whom is actually named after Needletail. Then you have RoF, where Tawnypelt nearly attacks Yarrowleaf on sight because she betrayed her Clan, and even after she sees that she's pregnant, she still agrees with Leafstar's decision to refuse her and Sleekwhisker to join SkyClan. Of course, you could argue that because the betrayal was so recent, it makes sense why Tawnypelt would lash out. But even in SR, you have Spotpaw being told about the apprentices rebelling and them being blamed for ShadowClan's fall and there's no reason to think this wouldn't be the case with ShadowClan themselves as well. Point is, if Needletail does get mentioned, I highly doubt they'll sugarcoat her actions, assuming they'll go that deep into it. Even Sunbeam's mother and aunt were guilty of joining Darktail, and it was before he took over ShadowClan and I'll be amazed if this gets remembered in the next arc.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 18, 2021 2:42:35 GMT -5
Also this is why I'm so bugged by the amount of slack Sleekwhisker's character gets in comparison to Needletail in the fandom. Sleekwhisker most likely helped drown her own mother, killed several of her clanmates, and tried to ice both her grandparents but only got one of them. She also helped drown one of her best friends, Needletail, then drugged the other and kidnapped her kits while also having no qualms taking their lives for leverage. She's a truly horrible character that honestly did way more damage to ShadowClan as a whole than Needletail ever did, but I rarely ever see her get flack for it. To be fair, just because Sleekwhisker's actions aren't mentioned that often within the fandom doesn't mean they're not acknowledged. I don't think anyone will disagree that Sleekwhisker was a complete monster, but since there isn't really much to her other than being a bully her entire life, it makes sense she isn't talked about often. There's just not much to discuss when it comes to her. It's different with Needletail because at least there's some actual nuance to her character, but I do agree that the hatred she gets can be a bit much at times.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 2:43:16 GMT -5
I mean could be because she has to deal with Needle's reputation and her wanting to get away from that? Like Root with Tree initially. Would make sense, Sunbeam has never met Needle, and I'm pretty sure ShadowClan in general have a distaste for the apprentices that rebelled. Yeah, the only cats who really seem to even still like Needletail are Tree, Alderheart, and Violetshine, and this makes sense considering the last memories they have of her were witnessing her good side, but even then, LS heavily implies that Violetshine's feelings have become pretty complicated since then if she got uncomfortable when Tree mentioned her, nor has she ever mentioned her to her kits, one of whom is actually named after Needletail. Then you have RoF, where Tawnypelt nearly attacks Yarrowleaf on sight because she betrayed her Clan, and even after she sees that she's pregnant, she still agrees with Leafstar's decision to refuse her and Sleekwhisker to join SkyClan. Of course, you could argue that because the betrayal was so recent, it makes sense why Tawnypelt would lash out. But even in SR, you have Spotpaw being told about the apprentices rebelling and them being blamed for ShadowClan's fall and there's no reason to think this wouldn't be the case with ShadowClan themselves as well. Point is, if Needletail does get mentioned, I highly doubt they'll sugarcoat her actions, assuming they'll go that deep into it. Even Sunbeam's mother and aunt were guilty of joining Darktail, and it was before he took over ShadowClan and I'll be amazed if this gets remembered in the latest arc. Oh man you just reminded me that Tawnypelt was gung ho about booting a pregnant queen, that bothers me so much...Like I get Leafstar since she's SkyClan's leader, but Tawnypelt straight up wanted to beat the crap out of Yarrow and was horribly cold despite her being pregnant. But then again it wouldn't be the first time she would have been quick to spring out one of her clanmates, or at least former clanmates. That also reminds me, there seems to be some sort of disconnection between Tiger's family and the rest of the clan too. Like Tigertwo was willing to pull a blanket over his own clan's eyes if it meant cowardly covering up his son's deeds and trying to help him escape. But not only that, Tawny was in on it too, along with Dove, Light and Pounce. They were working together against their own clan to cover up Shadowsight's tail, which bothers me. Cause Hollowspring points out how it's hard to criticize Tigerkin, like Shadowsight. Like Tigerkin get special treatment or have a notably higher status in ShadowClan for some reason, so it's really no wonder that other clan members feel divided toward them to a degree. At one point, when Scorchfur was planning to leave, it was not only because he felt guilty, but also because he feared both Tawny and Rowan retaliating against him.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 2:47:29 GMT -5
Also this is why I'm so bugged by the amount of slack Sleekwhisker's character gets in comparison to Needletail in the fandom. Sleekwhisker most likely helped drown her own mother, killed several of her clanmates, and tried to ice both her grandparents but only got one of them. She also helped drown one of her best friends, Needletail, then drugged the other and kidnapped her kits while also having no qualms taking their lives for leverage. She's a truly horrible character that honestly did way more damage to ShadowClan as a whole than Needletail ever did, but I rarely ever see her get flack for it. To be fair, just because Sleekwhisker's actions aren't mentioned that often within the fandom doesn't mean they're not acknowledged. I don't think anyone will disagree that Sleekwhisker was a complete monster, but since there isn't really much to her other than being a bully her entire life, it makes sense she isn't talked about often. There's just not much to discuss when it comes to her. It's different with Needletail because at least there's some actual nuance to her character, but I do agree that the hatred she gets can be a bit much at times. Like the amount of hatred and blame the fandom gives Needletail, compared to Sleekwhisker, feels excessive imo. Especially when Sleekwhisker actively went out of her way to do all the things that people accuse Needletail of doing. Her being a bully, blatantly treating Violet like trash out of jealousy, and actively ruining her clan while being gung ho about executing her clanmates. Alderheart is pretty much the complete opposite of Sleekwhisker, while Needletail is obviously in the middle, but I've seen many more people advocate Needletail for being as bad as Sleekwhisker, which baffles me.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 18, 2021 6:15:01 GMT -5
To be fair, just because Sleekwhisker's actions aren't mentioned that often within the fandom doesn't mean they're not acknowledged. I don't think anyone will disagree that Sleekwhisker was a complete monster, but since there isn't really much to her other than being a bully her entire life, it makes sense she isn't talked about often. There's just not much to discuss when it comes to her. It's different with Needletail because at least there's some actual nuance to her character, but I do agree that the hatred she gets can be a bit much at times. Like the amount of hatred and blame the fandom gives Needletail, compared to Sleekwhisker, feels excessive imo. Especially when Sleekwhisker actively went out of her way to do all the things that people accuse Needletail of doing. Her being a bully, blatantly treating Violet like trash out of jealousy, and actively ruining her clan while being gung ho about executing her clanmates. Alderheart is pretty much the complete opposite of Sleekwhisker, while Needletail is obviously in the middle, but I've seen many more people advocate Needletail for being as bad as Sleekwhisker, which baffles me. I mean I hate both of them both, so. No need to worry, Sleekwhisker is hot garbage. But it’s never argued with when we say Sleekwhisker is an awful cat. Someone could dislike Needletail and suddenly there’s people jumping down your throat for disliking her and not seeing her as some complex cat who deserves sympathy, at least in my experience. I don’t have to compare Needletail and Sleekwhisker to vehemently hate them both. I just don’t want Sunbeam’s individuality to be stained by them bringing up Needletail when she’s dead and gone and should stay dead and gone. At least for me personally, I really really really do not want anything to revolve around Needletail anymore. I do also want to say that people can like or dislike a character for any reasons they like, and that it shouldn’t be that baffling if people do really hate Needletail for what she did on her own merit, without it having to be compared to anyone else. I hate Needletail for what she did and how she acted. Has nothing to do with my feelings for any other cat.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 18, 2021 6:19:39 GMT -5
I personally quite enjoyed Needletail as a character but I sincerely doubt Sunbeam's arc will have anything to do with her dead sister in the slightest. She hasn't even met Needletail. If the Erins remember that their related the most we may get is a throwaway line about it so I wouldn't be all that worried, heck the arc is even called the starless clan so likely no spirit ghost Needletail either. I sure hope so. Because it’ll deeply sour my opinions of the character if they revolve her around another cat that is dead and should stay dead. But knowing this series, they’ll pull something stupid and bring back old conflicts that are already resolved for useless drama. Needless to say, I’m the least excited for Sunbeam’s POV at the moment. Hopefully it’ll be good but...yeah...
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Post by 🔥Firestar🔥 on May 18, 2021 8:43:32 GMT -5
Like the amount of hatred and blame the fandom gives Needletail, compared to Sleekwhisker, feels excessive imo. Especially when Sleekwhisker actively went out of her way to do all the things that people accuse Needletail of doing. Her being a bully, blatantly treating Violet like trash out of jealousy, and actively ruining her clan while being gung ho about executing her clanmates. Alderheart is pretty much the complete opposite of Sleekwhisker, while Needletail is obviously in the middle, but I've seen many more people advocate Needletail for being as bad as Sleekwhisker, which baffles me. I mean I hate both of them both, so. No need to worry, Sleekwhisker is hot garbage. But it’s never argued with when we say Sleekwhisker is an awful cat. Someone could dislike Needletail and suddenly there’s people jumping down your throat for disliking her and not seeing her as some complex cat who deserves sympathy, at least in my experience. I don’t have to compare Needletail and Sleekwhisker to vehemently hate them both. I just don’t want Sunbeam’s individuality to be stained by them bringing up Needletail when she’s dead and gone and should stay dead and gone. At least for me personally, I really really really do not want anything to revolve around Needletail anymore. I do also want to say that people can like or dislike a character for any reasons they like, and that it shouldn’t be that baffling if people do really hate Needletail for what she did on her own merit, without it having to be compared to anyone else. I hate Needletail for what she did and how she acted. Has nothing to do with my feelings for any other cat.Exactly, Moon. When i discuss why i dislike Needletail, i'm discussing Needletail, and not some other cat. I don't even need to talk about Sleekwhisker at that moment, because there's nothing to argue with her character, since everyone knows she's pure evil. And as of why i dislike her. Needletail's personality is grating and annoying, her treatment of Violetshine is gross (and no, i won't accept that she cares for her. Even if she did, that type of "caring for her" would be really toxic and unhealthy), and the fact that she was supposed to be reedemed but then took no fault and she says that everything was Rowanstar's fault, makes me hate her even more. I also know that her character is complex (as many people have adressed) but that dosen't mean her actions are suddenly excused or have a reasonable reason. Glad she was gone, and i agree that Sunbeam's character shouldn't revolve around her getting away from Needletail's reputation, that's already an overused concept that is now going to Flamepaw as he dosen't like being releated to Firekin. I want her to be her own a cat, and honestly i would like for her to be wise, carefree, calm, and level-headed, and also down-to-earth but still not afraid of calling people out. Not another worried cat who "wants to be normal" or anything.
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Sunbeam
May 18, 2021 12:35:56 GMT -5
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 12:35:56 GMT -5
Like the amount of hatred and blame the fandom gives Needletail, compared to Sleekwhisker, feels excessive imo. Especially when Sleekwhisker actively went out of her way to do all the things that people accuse Needletail of doing. Her being a bully, blatantly treating Violet like trash out of jealousy, and actively ruining her clan while being gung ho about executing her clanmates. Alderheart is pretty much the complete opposite of Sleekwhisker, while Needletail is obviously in the middle, but I've seen many more people advocate Needletail for being as bad as Sleekwhisker, which baffles me. I mean I hate both of them both, so. No need to worry, Sleekwhisker is hot garbage. But it’s never argued with when we say Sleekwhisker is an awful cat. Someone could dislike Needletail and suddenly there’s people jumping down your throat for disliking her and not seeing her as some complex cat who deserves sympathy, at least in my experience. I don’t have to compare Needletail and Sleekwhisker to vehemently hate them both. I just don’t want Sunbeam’s individuality to be stained by them bringing up Needletail when she’s dead and gone and should stay dead and gone. At least for me personally, I really really really do not want anything to revolve around Needletail anymore. I do also want to say that people can like or dislike a character for any reasons they like, and that it shouldn’t be that baffling if people do really hate Needletail for what she did on her own merit, without it having to be compared to anyone else. I hate Needletail for what she did and how she acted. Has nothing to do with my feelings for any other cat. I find it baffling because of how the fandom reacts to certain things when it comes to two characters in similar situations, and one is worse than the other, yet the more morally gray, and sometimes morally good, character gets more criticism and heat for it. And from a general point of view, I think it can easily be said that Needletail does get excessive hate, it may not be on the forums as much, but in many other spaces she does, and people put her in the same level of horrible as Sleekwhisker. Despite Sleekwhisker being way more brutal and villainous and causing way more harm to the clans than Needletail ever did. When it comes to their characters as well, Needletail at least had long standing effects in her actions that were good. She may still have had beef with Rowan, but she still felt guilt and needed Tree's help to fix ShadowClan. And even before dying, she still snuck herbs to other clans to help them and was willing to give her life for another cat, ensuring they had a future in the end. Violet and Needle had a complex relationship under horrible conditions, but Violet now has a good family and is happy where she is now because of Needletail's sacrifice. Even though she does name Needleclaw after Needletail, like others have pointed out, she hasn't even told her children about her, because that relationship is a more personal thing to her character. Needleclaw doesn't revolve around Needletail, just like how Sparkpelt, despite being a clone of Firestar, doesn't revolve around Firestar either. But that doesn't mean that their characters don't have some sort of association with those other characters though. And when it comes to Sunbeam, I doubt it would be her going out of her own way to draw association between her and Needletail. As I said, she wasn't even around Needletail, never met her, and all she'll know of her is what other cats say about her. However, other cats that do know her WILL associate Needletail with her, and that family, but that's not Sunbeam's fault. If ShadowClan doesn't want to forgive Needletail, and they still haven't, then that's really their decision, but it will become a problem when they push that association onto Sunbeam who's just...existing. If anything I feel like it'll be inevitable that some cat will bring up Needletail when it comes to Sunbeam, they are kin after all, but it also won't be the fault of Sunbeam if it does revolve around her character. It would be the cats around her that cause that.
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Post by Aqua on May 18, 2021 14:25:52 GMT -5
I hand's down agree so hard. Dawnpelt was always loyal and worked hard all her life. I used to say her mate Crowfrost was cool and would have done better than Tigerfart but my girl Dawnpelt held so much power that that the Erins seemed to forget about. Dawnpelt would have also been a much more sympathetic character than Traitorstar 2, her bro she loves very much dies, all three of her kids betray their clan and she goes after them and dies. but it would have been so much cooler if she lived. She would have had to live with the fact her own daughter killed he dad and if she became leader and the Juniperclaw plot still happened she would also have another terrible kid to deal with and everything would pile up, she would maybe stop trusting people even her closest ones and unlike Bluestar she would have had the freakin right to. Now that's a character I would legitimatly root for, not her rule breaking, dark forest training, toxic, manipulative devil of a brother(who deserved nothing, most certainly not the clan he betrayed numerous times). I'm actually crying now over Dawnpelt now and what could have been... It's wild cause Dawnpelt also had ambition and wanted to be leader, it was said in Night Whisperers, while they were proclaiming it and play fighting in front of Rowanstar. Like Rowan knew both of them wanted to be deputy one day but he chooses the worse of the two...which has always bothered and annoyed me. Dawnpelt was like...right there?? Also this is why I'm so bugged by the amount of slack Sleekwhisker's character gets in comparison to Needletail in the fandom. Sleekwhisker most likely helped drown her own mother, killed several of her clanmates, and tried to ice both her grandparents but only got one of them. She also helped drown one of her best friends, Needletail, then drugged the other and kidnapped her kits while also having no qualms taking their lives for leverage. She's a truly horrible character that honestly did way more damage to ShadowClan as a whole than Needletail ever did, but I rarely ever see her get flack for it. I'll forever be bitter about Rowan choosing Tiger over Dawn, and also Sleekwhisker helping drown her later. Even more so knowing that Sleekwhisker is now her only sole surviving kit, like Dawnpelt deserved way better. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ Also, I agree, I know many don't like Scorchfur, but I personally like him. He's one of the few ShadowClan cats that actually have a personality and aren't generically self-righteous or boring, not to mention he has morals but can also be cowardly at times. But I think he can also make up for that with his caring side, when it comes to his his family, and especially with how proud he is of them. I love that he was trying to defend his daughter when she tried to rejoin, even defying Leafstar at one point, because he genuinely still loved her. Or how proud and supporting he was of Cloverfoot when she was named deputy, like the dude is a great father and mate. Would love to see moments between him and Sunbeam. Like if she's a little rascal hanging out with her grumpy grandfather and sweet grandmother that is Snowbird, I would love that. People give Needletail more crap than Sleekwhisker because Needletail is more "important" in the books and prolly because she started the entire drama in the first place, although it still doesn't seem fair to me since Needletail really wasn't that bad. Rereading the books now, she just acts like a brat who doesn't like the rules and nothing more. Needletail's not malicious like Sleekwhisker. Sleekwhisker, from what I've seen, gets a lot of hate for going to Darktail and having a crush on him? That's just what I've seen personally, and I don't think many people care about her as a villain much. I think the fandom forgets that Dawnpelt matured from her own incident with Jayfeather. I still see a lot of crap people give her, so they probably don't want her to be deputy because "she was mean to Jayfeather", but I don't think most people see that she's clearly grieving over her dead brother. Dawnpelt has always been an interesting minor character to me. I wouldn't mind if we got a novella from her one day...
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Sunbeam
May 18, 2021 14:32:03 GMT -5
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 18, 2021 14:32:03 GMT -5
It's wild cause Dawnpelt also had ambition and wanted to be leader, it was said in Night Whisperers, while they were proclaiming it and play fighting in front of Rowanstar. Like Rowan knew both of them wanted to be deputy one day but he chooses the worse of the two...which has always bothered and annoyed me. Dawnpelt was like...right there?? Also this is why I'm so bugged by the amount of slack Sleekwhisker's character gets in comparison to Needletail in the fandom. Sleekwhisker most likely helped drown her own mother, killed several of her clanmates, and tried to ice both her grandparents but only got one of them. She also helped drown one of her best friends, Needletail, then drugged the other and kidnapped her kits while also having no qualms taking their lives for leverage. She's a truly horrible character that honestly did way more damage to ShadowClan as a whole than Needletail ever did, but I rarely ever see her get flack for it. I'll forever be bitter about Rowan choosing Tiger over Dawn, and also Sleekwhisker helping drown her later. Even more so knowing that Sleekwhisker is now her only sole surviving kit, like Dawnpelt deserved way better. ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ Also, I agree, I know many don't like Scorchfur, but I personally like him. He's one of the few ShadowClan cats that actually have a personality and aren't generically self-righteous or boring, not to mention he has morals but can also be cowardly at times. But I think he can also make up for that with his caring side, when it comes to his his family, and especially with how proud he is of them. I love that he was trying to defend his daughter when she tried to rejoin, even defying Leafstar at one point, because he genuinely still loved her. Or how proud and supporting he was of Cloverfoot when she was named deputy, like the dude is a great father and mate. Would love to see moments between him and Sunbeam. Like if she's a little rascal hanging out with her grumpy grandfather and sweet grandmother that is Snowbird, I would love that. People give Needletail more crap than Sleekwhisker because Needletail is more "important" in the books and prolly because she started the entire drama in the first place, although it still doesn't seem fair to me since Needletail really wasn't that bad. Rereading the books now, she just acts like a brat who doesn't like the rules and nothing more. Needletail's not malicious like Sleekwhisker. Sleekwhisker, from what I've seen, gets a lot of hate for going to Darktail and having a crush on him? That's just what I've seen personally, and I don't think many people care about her as a villain much. I think the fandom forgets that Dawnpelt matured from her own incident with Jayfeather. I still see a lot of crap people give her, so they probably don't want her to be deputy because "she was mean to Jayfeather", but I don't think most people see that she's clearly grieving over her dead brother. Dawnpelt has always been an interesting minor character to me. I wouldn't mind if we got a novella from her one day... I suppose I see your point. And I agree with you on Dawnpelt...still for her to meet the type of end she did...that's just horrifying when you think about it. And even worse when in death her father denied her pleads to still save the clans, and now two of her kits are also dead. She really deserved better honestly.
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Sunbeam
May 18, 2021 16:27:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on May 18, 2021 16:27:32 GMT -5
If her character revolves around Needletail in any way, shape or form, it’s gonna be an instant dislike for me. Sunbeam hopefully will be a cool Shadowclan cat. Agreed. Needletail died before she was even born, and while I’m sure she would’ve heard stories about her older sister, I don’t want them to have any true impact on her.
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Post by 𝔯𝔞𝔟𝔟𝔦𝔱𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔱 on May 18, 2021 16:29:37 GMT -5
Sleekwhisker may have not kicked the bucket yet but yeah she's dead to her mentor who's now leader so likely Shadowclan as well. Which makes be wonder why this himbo was even allowed to become leader after training a cat that turned evil/killed former leader, had half clan affair for moons, and abandoned clan because of said affair. Man these guys must have been desperate cuz he should be considered a traitor not holy leader. Wow I got carried of but poor Strikestone & Dawnpelt indeed and I really want Sunbeam to be a sunbeam too, would be nice contrast to salty af Needletail. btw sorry if anyone's a Tigerstar II fan, just ignore the stuff I said about him since it was off topic anyways. I will never not be mad that Dawnpelt died while Tigerheart became leader, it should have been the other way around (Dawnstar would have been so much more interesting smfh) I agree 10000%. Tigerheartstar should’ve stayed dead when that damn owl dropped him. Dawnpelt would’ve made a MUCH more interesting leader, and she deserved so much better.
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