Change My Mind *spoilers for HJ*

I guess I can see why, but keep in mind that Jayfeather wanted to become a warrior and felt like several cats underestimated him, even Brightheart, and he wasn't exactly wrong, either. As the Clan respected him more, he grew out of it.

Eh, sure. Go ahead.

I don't have an opinion on PinexLeopard, and I wasn't really fond ThunderxStar either, even before it was revealed that Star Flower was a traitir.

As for SkyxStar, I for one actually like Star Flower's relationship with Skystar. The possible age difference doesn't really bother me, mostly because these are cats. They don't care about age, nor relation. We don't even know Star Flower's real age, but it does seem to imply at one point that she's at least a little older than Thunderstar, who was warned several times about Star Flower by Lightning Tail and several other cats anyway, even Skystar. I like Thunderstar and all, but he had it coming.

Nevertheless, the two cats are actually a very good match for each other. Star Flower keeps Skystar sane and isn't afraid to stand up to him, either. They're also very similar in terms of making mistakes, but they have also been doing their best to make up for them. They understand each other. And Skystar's and Star Flower's old ways of thinking were very similar to what many cats would go through, especially if said cats are in a forbidden relationship. Skystar chose his group over his family, while Star Flower was the opposite. It's the same mentality, just taken into a different context. These two cats show just what happens when either one is twisted around and taken too far, and it's an interesting way of looking at it if you ask me.

Sunny?

What's your opinion on NeedleTAIL?

Your mean father, and as I've said, I personally don't mind it.

Anyone else you want to debate on?

I like Hailstar. I thought he was a good leader for RiverClan and I liked how loyal he is to his Clanmates, such as when he decided to go to WindClan and get Fallowtail's kits back. I don't like how he agreed to change Crookedstar's name though, but seeing as determined Rainflower was, I assume there was no reasoning with her then either.

As for Yellowfang, I don't have much of an opinion on her. I never cared for her when she was alive, but I did like her relationship with Firestar and Cinderpelt. I really disliked her relationship with Raggedstar though because of how abusive it was.

As for her in StarClan, I'm not too fond of her then, either. She (and technically the rest of StarClan for that matter) thought that it was best to have Squirrelflight believe she was barren so she could raise Leafpool's kits and kept the Three's parentage a secret. I can certainly see why they would that, but it's still pretty cruel. And in OotS, she's just alot more rude than usual.

I don't have much of an opinion on Cinderpelt. I liked her friendship with Firestar, but I don't ship them. I thought she was a good medicine cat and a good mentor to Leafpool, but I don't like that she attacked her, though I can sort of see why. I also think she's at least partially to blame for her accident since while she had good intentions, she still refused to obey Fireheart’s orders when he told her to stay in camp.

I've never once thought of her and Cinderheart as the same character. Even before TLH, I had my suspicions that Cinderheart was simply being possessed by Cinderpelt and it turns out I was right. That being said, Cinderpelt should've just gone straight to StarClan when she died instead of possessing her niece. In the end, it was a pretty pointless subplot that just created unnecessary drama for Cinderheart, and I like Cinderheart.

Thanks! Glory's always been my favorite dragon.

Anyway, Hollyleaf, Bluestar, and Cinderheart are on the list. I love Hollyleaf and I like Bluestar and Cinderheart.

I love Hollyleaf because I found her to be an interesting and well-written character. She was a cat trying to find her place in the Clan and was dedicated to the warrior code, but it was to the point of obsession and she ended up snapping after it was revealed that her very existence was against the warrior code. In the end however, she ended up becoming more humble during her time in the tunnels and never stopped helping her Clanmates, ultimately giving her life to save Ivypool and finally making amends with Leafpool.

I like Cinderheart, though her character arc could've been alot less dramatic than it was. At the same time though, I can't really hate her for it. I can see why she broke up with Lionblaze since she felt like she would only be a distraction to his destiny, and she's not completely wrong either. Lionblaze was being reckless in trying to prove to Cinderheart that he could choose his own destiny. And I can see why she freaked out when she found out about Cinderpelt. Both Leafpool and Jayfeather knew for the longest time and she was actually somewhat accepting of it until she saved Mousewhisker and Cherryfall with healing knowledge she wasn't even supposed to have. That was when she began to feel torn. In the end, she came to accept both and is alot happier now than she was back then.

And I've never had a problem with Bluestar. I've seen people say they were annoyed with how depressed she was when Moonflower and Snowfur died and even compare her to Snowfur and Crookedstar. Now, I can understand why some would be annoyed, but here's the thing: Bluestar saw Moonflower and Snowfur die with her own eyes. Not only that, but she hadn't even been an apprentice for very long when Moonflower died.

And another thing—everyone handles grief differently, so I find it to be really unfair to compare Bluestar's grief with that of another. In the case of Snowfur, she managed to recover more quickly than her sister did. And whereas Crookedstar was given time to grieve, Bluestar wasn't.

Now comes the argument that she tried to interfere with Snowfur's relationship with Thistleclaw, who some believe was a good cat and would've been a good leader. I really don't see why people think this. It's been shown plenty of times already that while he was loyal, he was also arrogant and battle-hungry, even as a kit, and disregarded both StarClan and the warrior code. It wasn't Bluestar's place to decide who Snowfur became mates with, but it's not like she didn't have a reason to think this.

Then Bluestar is criticized for avoiding Whitestorm when he was a kit. To be fair though, it's not like she didn't have reason to do this. She was avoiding him because she was afraid of losing him, just as she lost Moonflower and Snowfur, but she did get over it pretty soon thanks to a dream, and she and Whitestorm had been close ever since.

Bluestar is also blamed for Mosskit's death. While I will say she is partially to blame, Bluestar didn't kill her daughter, the weather did. And it's not like Bluestar had much of a choice. It was the coldest leaf-bare of the year, so the blizzard would've covered both their scent and pawprints, and she may have just saved the lives of Mistystar and Stonefur due to RiverClan being better off at the time. The kits were also small enough for Bluestar’s story about them being taken believable, as well as young enough for them to forget about her. Not only that, but Tawnyspots retired a moon later. Bluestar was on a deadline, and it's not like she didn't feel guilty about Mosskit's death, either.

Then people hate her for her relationship with Oakheart. Personally, Oakheart x Bluestar is one of my favorite pairings, and has got to be one of the only two forbidden romances in the series that I actually like (the other one being CrowxLeaf). It could've had better development, that I won't deny, but similar to CrowxLeaf, I don't think it's as underdeveloped as most people think.

To put it simply, Bluestar was being a complete tsundere towards Oakheart. For those who don't know what a tsundere is, it's a character development process that describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing their warm side over time.

Originating from Japan, this particular archtype falls into two categories: harsh (tsun) and dere (sweet). Bluestar falls under the former category.

Bluestar would lose all her patience with her mate and was quite snappy, especially when she was in denial about her feelings for him since she couldn't be mates with a cat from another Clan. Despite this, Bluestar geniunely loved Oakheart and since their parting, he was the only cat she ever truly loved and they are now mates again in StarClan.

It didn't happen spontaneously, either—there were actually plenty of hints in the book that Bluefur was slowly falling for Oakheart even before they began meeting each other, but for obvious reasons, she had to deny them and act cold towards him, again similar to how Crowfeather and Leafpool acted towards each other throughout Starlight. That said though, I do think the relationship could've been written better. Some people call Bluestar a hypocrite for liking Oakheart at all, and while I won't deny she was being slightly hypocritical, I'll take Oakheart over Thistleclaw any day.

Then comes the part where Bluestar is criticized for going insane. Tigerstar was Bluestar's trusted deputy and no one knew of his treachery but Ravenpaw, Graystripe, and Firestar—or as the Clan used to see them, a scared apprentice/traitor, a joker, and a former kittypet. The entire reason why Ravenpaw never told Bluestar of Tigerstar's treachery was because he was afraid she wouldn't believe him. Bluestar was warned several times by Firestar that Tigerstar was dangerous, but she never believed him until it was already too late.

For the cats, StarClan control everything and this is pointed our several times in the first arc until towards the end of The Darkest Hour where it's revealed that it isn't the case, so it's not all that far-fetched as to why she would blame StarClan for her and her Clan's misfortune, which included: Her mother dying.
Her sister dying.
Her Clanmates dying both before and during her leadership, which was partially the reason why she invited Rusty to join ThunderClan.
Having to give up her kits and Mosskit dying.
Tigerstar's attempts to murder her.
A forest fire that killed Patchpelt, Halftail, and Yellowfang and this caused Bluestar to lose faith in StarClan.
Snowkit being taken by a hawk.
Mistyfoot and Stonefur nearly killed her and later rejected her.
Brightpaw being mauled by dogs and Swiftpaw being killed by them and Brindleface being killed by Tigerstar to use as bait for the dogs.

And speaking of Brightpaw, the only reason Bluestar named her Lostface was to show the Clan "what StarClan did to take her away from them," but she didn't mean to be cruel, either. She was even sorry she brought down "StarClan's wrath" on her. It wasn't her fault that Swiftpaw was dead and Brightpaw was mauled, either, or at least not entirely. They made the choice to go out on their own and Bluestar made it clear that she wasn’t going to make any new warriors until they rejected StarClan like Cloudtail and herself did.

Tigerstar was worse than his former mentor Thistleclaw, and Bluestar likely saw that when he attacked her. She must've thought that everything she had to give up was for nothing.

As I've said, almost no one suspected Tigerstar's treachery as he hid it well. Who's to say that there weren't anymore traitors within the Clan? We as the readers know that the only other traitor at the time was Darkstripe, but Bluestar didn't. Even Firestar was wary at times, like when he accused Longtail of teaming up with Tigerstar when the dogs were causing trouble.

And the only reason why Bluestar put all the responsibility on Fireheart was as a form of punishment for his betrayal. After that, the only cat she trusted was her nephew Whitestorm. Before then, she did everything a leader would do for her Clan, even if she was being wary of the other cats and had lost faith in StarClan.

In fact, she was actually willing to give herself up for the sake of the Clan and even criticized herself for not believing Firestar sooner. She also felt like she owed Ravenpaw an apology. It should also be noted that she still had faith in StarClan at this time, as she thanked them for leading Cloudpaw home.

I'd also liked to point out that Bluestar had dementia during her final moons as leader. Not only that, but she was also old and under alot of grief and stress at the time, do this could've also played a part in her demise. Her depression had even gotten to the point where she thought death was a better option than living. However, Bluestar made up for all of this later on by doing the most noble thing anyone can do—risking her own life to save Fireheart.

I'm not excusing Bluestar's actions, but I am trying to make sense of them. She was a good cat and a good leader for ThunderClan at first… she just made poor choices.

I like that she's loyal to her friends and family, but other than that, I don't really have much of an opinion on her.

Though I was never much of a fan of Silverstream's relationship with Graystripe considering all the problems it caused, I do like some aspects of her character.

For one, she never made her relationship with him as obvious as he did when they were in public and actually fought ThunderClan cats when Graystripe couldn't even fight off a single RiverClan cat.

She also helped Firestar speak with Graypool.

She saved Firestar and Graystripe from being punished by Crookedstar, who was warned about the flood by Silverstream herself.

She even gave Firestar a life and fought beside him against Scourge.

She also bared no ill will against either Graystripe or Millie.

And I especially like how she was kinda like a guide for Firestar, Stormfur, and even Ravenpaw.

Again, not a big fan of Silverstream in terms of her relationship with Graystripe, but she's okay as a character and I wouldn’t mind if we ever got a novella on her someday, if only to help her get more development since for the most part, all her character is known for is being Graystripe's first love interest and mother to his kits.

Bump

What do you think about Twigpaw and Violetpaw?

Bump

Bump