Change My Mind *spoilers for HJ*

Why do you dislike Foxheart? I dislike her too, but just wanted to ask for your opnion.

I would appreciate if you ask me that on a cat we have differing opinions otherwise it would defeat the purpose of this thread, but long story short, I dislike Foxheart because I found her to be an annoying bully.

Opinion on Bright Heart? (Curious as to why you're neutral)

What's your opinion on Leafstar and Echosong?

I love Leafstar because I found her to be an interesting character. She's a leader with flaws, but still cares for her Clan very much and is devoted to both them and her family, nor do I have much of a problem with her choices.

As for Echosong, I really like her too. She's a kind and compassionate cat who fights for what she wants and is a good medicine cat, too.

What's your opinion on Mapleshade?

Bump

Bump

Lionblaze is stubborn and hot-headed, but that's what I like about him. He's very much flawed, but is ultimately very devoted to his Clan and family, especially his littermates.

I also liked his relationship with Cinderheart, but I do also think it could've been less dramatic than it was. As for his relationship with Heathertail, I never cared for it, even while they were still friends.

Lionblaze is however my least favorite of the original Three since I do find him to be a little bland compared to Jayfeather and Hollyleaf, and I do get why his character may not be for everyone.

I don't know, I guess I just find her character to be interesting for some reason. In a way, she kind of reminds me of Hollyleaf: intelligent, cunning, loyal, but may also be stubborn at times.

Why are you neutral on Slash?

Well, this is a thread in which you get to change my, though I guess it could go both ways. Anyway, Hollyleaf is one of my favorite characters in the series and always has been. She was ambitious and very loyal to her Clan to the point where she longed to become their leader one day and was dedicated to the warrior code, but didn't become obsessed with it until after the events of Dark River. After that, she put all her time and energy to serving her Clan in any way she could, especially after she found out about the Prophecy of the Three.

However, as Hollyleaf grew, so did her obsession with the warrior code. After it was revealed that Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw weren't her real parents, she slowly began to snap. Squirrelflight refused to tell who her real parents were, so as far as she knew, she probably wasn't Clanborn at all. Not only that, but Ashfur had threatened to reveal Squirrelflight's secret and clearly wasn't going to back down after being warned three times. So, Hollyleaf did the only thing she could do: she killed him. What's interesting though is that she didn't kill him because she was being brave or noble, but out of anger instead.

However, to her at least, his death would've been in vain. After Honeyfern's death, she finds out from Leafpool that she's her mother and eventually finds out that Crowfeather is her father. Her very existence went against both the warrior code and the medicine cat code and thought that Leafpool deserved to be punished for her actions, so she revealed the secret at the Gathering, but came to regret her actions.

Thanks to Fallen Leaves after running away, Hollyleaf became more humble and learned to forgive Squirrelflight and Leafpool during her time in the tunnels. Despite wanting to stay away from ThunderClan, she still missed them terribly and helped them many times, such ad elping Blossomfall, Ivypool, and Dovewing out of the tunnels, leaving marigold for Sandstorm and Cherrykit, and saved Molepaw and Cherrypaw from a fox. And speaking of foxes, she's also shown to be motherly when she was taking care of a fox cub after it was seperated from its mother.

After returning to ThunderClan, Hollyleaf continued to serve her Clan and helped them fight against WindClan when they invaded and even taught them how to fight in the tunnels. When the Great Battle came, she sacrificed herself to save Ivypool from Hawkfrost and died after making amends with Leafpool.

Hollyleaf was ambitious and loyal, but also sensitive, intelligent, and cunning. To me, both her story and character were interesting, well-written, and well-developed, and that's what I love about her.

I like Dovewing because of how flawed she was.

She whined about her powers, but she had reason to do so. She just wanted to be normal, especially since the prophecy was putting a strain on her relationship with Ivypool, but she wasn't allowed to tell her about her powers. After she lost them temporarily, she began to worry since not only was there the prophecy that still needed to be fulfilled, but she also would've been used to them since they had been with her since birth.

After she lost them for good, it was pretty sad seeing her so depressed since she felt blind and deaf and practically useless to her Clan without them. After all, she did plenty of things for her Clan while she still had them, she was the one who spotted the beavers and discovered that they were the ones who were causing the drought, saved many of her Clanmates by reporting that a beech tree was about fall, saved Icecloud when the latter fell down one of the tunnels, managed to find out where Sorreltail was when the latter was giving birth, managed to see and hear all the way to the Dark Forest and report what they were up to, and was also one of the best hunters in ThunderClan.

I personally never cared much for her relationship with either Tigerheart or Bumblestripe, but I will say this. In regards to her relationship with Tigerheart, I don't think she's fully at fault for the incident with the catmint. Dovepaw blurted out that Jayfeather was growing herbs, but she thought he already knew! She tried to lie her way out of it, but felt that it was wrong and when she tried to change the subject when he kept on talking about it, Tigerheart just went back to it.

Dovepaw offered to steal some, but he declined. She then said that she would try to convince Jayfeather to spare some. Right after this is when Ivypaw appears, argues with Dovepaw once again, and then gets held for ransom by ShadowClan in exchange for the catmint.

And I'm not defending Tigerheart's actions in any way, but here's what I think: Tigerheart was desperate for Littlecloud to get better, but he clearly wasn't that desperate if he declined Dovepaw's offer to steal some. Knowing her, she would've felt extremely guilty about it, anyway and there's also the possibility of her getting caught. And even if she could persuade Jayfeather, how long would that have taken? He had already denied Leafpool from giving some to ShadowClan, why should Dovepaw—a member of the Three or not—be any different?

With Ivypaw, the opportunity to get some catmint appeared to him right then and there without needing to wait. Littlecloud was dying. Of course, this doesn't make his actions any more right, though. No matter how good the intentions were, Dovewing shouldn't have told Tigerheart about the catmint when ThunderClan was so low on it, and Tigerheart still shouldn't have betrayed Dovewing like that. Both cats were at fault.

As for Bumblestripe, she was rude to him yes, but it's not like Bumblestripe was being the nicest cat to her either in The Last Hope. He was being pretty snappy and critical towards her in that book. She was getting annoyed with Bumblestripe being so critical and clingy towards her, and something inside her just snapped. She shouldn't have been so harsh, but she did feel guilty about it afterwards and even tried to apologize, but Bumblestripe chose to stay angry at her. And though she may have been wrong for snapping at him, but it's not her fault she didn't love him—you can't control who you love, after all. Bumblestripe needed to respect her space when she needed it. However, Dovewing shouldn't have taken out her emotions on Bumblestripe and needed to tell him that she wanted her own space. He's not a mind-reader. Both are at fault for the argument.

And yes, she broke his heart, but it was for the best. Dovewing never loved Bumblestripe the way she loved Tigerheart. It was even mentioned that the only reason she took an interest in him was because he was in the same Clan as her. And really, the only reason she got together with him in the first place was because her Clanmates were being meddling and nosy, and it was clear that Dovewing didn't like Bumblestripe in that way. It would've never lasted, anyway. She made the right choice by breaking up with him in the end. It was even confirmed that the reason Dovewing and Bumblestripe broke up was because she still had feelings for Tigerheart and she knew it was wrong to string him along.

To be frank, though, I think she should just stay single for now—especially since she's so mentally broken at the moment—and try to get over Tigerheart, unless he decides to move to ThunderClan or she to ShadowClan—which I honestly doubt will happen since her parents and sister are in ThunderClan.

Like I said, Dovewing is far from perfect and her flaws have been displayed several times in the series, especially when pressured. Despite this, she's often very kind and compassionate, to the point where she would cross borders just to see if someone was okay, like what she did with Sedgewhisker when the latter was bitten by a dog. In Dovewing's Silence, she even continuously defended the the Dark Forest trainees from the Clans, especially her own Clanmates.

This is exactly what I like about Dovewing.

Thanks for responding! I like the way you take time for everyone. Well, anyway, my thoughts on Hollyleaf. She's in general a bit of a bother, her obsession with the warrior code becoming clearly annoying to other characters. She often judges other cats for their ideas and their own choices when she really has no place to be doing so. She is also extremely melodramatic, as demonstrated by her extreme exit into the tunnels and her blurting out of the secret at the Gathering. However, this could be an interesting aspect of they had developed it more. Also, she's a liar and a hypocrite. She breaks the code several times, and denies it by saying, "It haunts me forever." Which is no excuse. "I killed a man. But that's okay because it will haunt me forever." Guilt is good, it shows humanity in the face of bad choices. However, guilt doesn't make the crime okay. Just my thoughts