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Post by Oceanmist97 on Aug 1, 2020 12:35:28 GMT -5
In Warriors, there is a plethora of artistic liberties taken that do not mirror real life cat behavior, or even real life physics. The cats are mainly diurnal, there is no thought given to cat genetics, and the herbs used by medicine cats are not effective in real life. Most of these are understandable, given the fact that it's a fictional series, but is there any particular inaccuracy in this series that grinds your gears? My personal pet peeve is the fact that hawks and owls have been shown to carry off full grown cats. It's even happened to a pregnant cat. Hawks and owls are unable to lift off fully grown cats. They can hunt kittens, so the instance with Snowkit is understandable. But every time a cat is said to be killed by one of these birds, I always get irritated because it's just not realistic. Adult cats being targeted by birds of prey didn't start happening until OOTS, so I just don't understand why they decided to go this route.
Again, this is a fictional series, so expecting real life accuracy at all times would be asking for too much. The series wouldn't be the same at all if it was 100% factual. But is there any inaccuracy that tends to bother you whenever it shows up?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:04:00 GMT -5
I don't know genetics but...two grey cats resulting in a bright ginger cat?!
Superpowers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:11:21 GMT -5
I'm with happy413 on genetics, like all it takes is a 5 minute read to learn the basics, like toms get their pelt colors from their mother's, she-cats get them from both parents. Two ginger cats can NOT have a non-ginger kitten. Two non-ginger cats can't have a ginger kitten. Unless the mom is tortoiseshell, then she could have ginger sons, but tortoiseshell is part ginger anyway so. I also agree about what you said, OP. I also don't like how unrealistic the kits are, running around with the eyes open at one day old? Yeah right. Their way of kits seem to be inconsistent too, because you had Snowfur and Bluestar, who were exploring the camp at like 1-2 days old, and then you have Birch and Alder, who couldn't even really do much for awhile, because they were too young. Also, Birchfall who took FOREVER to wean, his sister died at 3 moons old, in most foster care places, cats are given up for adoption at around 3 months old, and by then, they've already been eating solid foods for awhile. I know that kitten solid food is a lot softer than mice, birds, etc, and I'm not sure how things work with feral cats, but it just seems like he was weaned super late.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 1, 2020 13:13:44 GMT -5
I don't know genetics but...two grey cats resulting in a bright ginger cat?! Superpowers. It is from the fathers and mothers of that cat's parents because most likely one of them were bright ginger
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:17:13 GMT -5
I don't know genetics but...two grey cats resulting in a bright ginger cat?! Superpowers. It is from the fathers and mothers of that cat's parents because most likely one of them were bright ginger I'm pretty sure the only thing grandparents can pass onto their grandkits is the colorpoint gene, but the dilute gene could pass down to the parents, which then passes down to their kits. cfa.org/basic-feline-genetics/Here's a pretty cool guide
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 1, 2020 13:39:01 GMT -5
i despise warriors genetics AND real life cat genetics
my version of warriors genetics follows a more human-like model. for example, if both parents r gray, all the kits are gray. if both parents have blue eyes, all the kits have blue eyes. if one parent is brown and the other is gray, their babies will be grayish-brown.
i like my cats to make sense and be simple. warriors genetics is just baffling to me (storm and clear sky both being gray but having a ginger baby thunder pisses me off to this day, etc.) because i hate real life cat genetics because it's too hard for me to understand.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:43:01 GMT -5
Lmaooo I'm already lost
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 1, 2020 13:43:54 GMT -5
Lmaooo I'm already lost thats what im saying, man. real life cat genetics makes me mad because of no hard it is to learn!!! :'(
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 13:47:18 GMT -5
Lmaooo I'm already lost It's saying, that if they're talking about JUST the color of the cat, then they will say color, if JUST the pattern, then they'll say pattern, and if they're talking about both, they'll say both.
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Post by Woofzie on Aug 1, 2020 13:53:04 GMT -5
I don't mind genetic inaccuracies in Warriors. It would be extremely boring to have the same patterns and variations in each Clan.
But can we please talk how kittens can open their eyes almost the same day they are born? Or how they suffer from idioticy and can't even recognize who is their real mother after they are given away? (Bluestar's, Leafpool's).
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 14:29:58 GMT -5
The lightsaber claws and fangs are definitely something a little strange. Cats generally kill via strangulation, and even lions and tigers who are so jacked that a cat looks like a scrawny twig by comparison cannot really reliably kill large prey instantly except with a skull bite, and even then strangulation is preferred. I guess it helps to make fights a little more decisive when their claws might as well be swords.
That one fox in OOTS is also weird. She's meant to be a vixen yet is huge to a ludicrous extent, it doesn't really make much sense at all since the size of foxes and cats has a heavy overlap and especially with a vixen relative to a tom cat it shouldn't be that big.
The deathball rats and stoats are also silly. They end up being portrayed as kind of a land piranha(the media version of a piranha, anyway) rather than solitary things that'd be prey for cats more often than not.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 1, 2020 16:28:56 GMT -5
Idk if this counts but pregnant cats not being super recognizable in either appearance OR scent for the sake of plot. Leafpool shouldn't have gotten away pregnant so easily, she has suspicion on her but no experienced Queen's like Daisy or Ferncloud are noted to have noticed anything. Her own damn MOTHER has suspicions sure but doesn't say anything either despite knowing exactly how it is to be pregnant AND a first-time mother nor offers support due to that. Pregnant cats should SMELL different! This is established too. Either it be a milk scent in development or SOMETHING not usual for a non-pregnant cat to smell like. Not to mention, pregnancy is always written off as if the cat is fat from eating... a cat who has a long-term mate. Wind Runner, a cat noted to be so naturally skinny by Gorse Fur that she can get into small holes, had the same issue when she was pregnant in that she was written off as just fat from prey. :T
These cats are so oblivious to how pregnancy works and are usually so surprised when it happens I wonder if they even know how babies work to begin with. I get that these cats don't have sex ed (Even though they probably should even if it's simply offscreen), but it's ri-goddamned-diculous in how much in degree for something that's literally the fricking nature cycle/circle-of-life/etc. They know what kits are and know a male and female cat CAN have kits and are always making cheeky remarks about future kits for potential litters. Why is anyone surprised or absolutely OBLIVIOUS when actual PREGNANCY is a thing then when they should be able to sense this shit at least by a weird smell or something?
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Post by Oceanmist97 on Aug 1, 2020 17:23:28 GMT -5
Idk if this counts but pregnant cats not being super recognizable in either appearance OR scent for the sake of plot. Leafpool shouldn't have gotten away pregnant so easily, she has suspicion on her but no experienced Queen's like Daisy or Ferncloud are noted to have noticed anything. Her own damn MOTHER has suspicions sure but doesn't say anything either despite knowing exactly how it is to be pregnant AND a first-time mother nor offers support due to that. Pregnant cats should SMELL different! This is established too. Either it be a milk scent in development or SOMETHING not usual for a non-pregnant cat to smell like. Not to mention, pregnancy is always written off as if the cat is fat from eating... a cat who has a long-term mate. Wind Runner, a cat noted to be so naturally skinny by Gorse Fur that she can get into small holes, had the same issue when she was pregnant in that she was written off as just fat from prey. :T These cats are so oblivious to how pregnancy works and are usually so surprised when it happens I wonder if they even know how babies work to begin with. I get that these cats don't have sex ed (Even though they probably should even if it's simply offscreen), but it's ri-goddamned-diculous in how much in degree for something that's literally the fricking nature cycle/circle-of-life/etc. They know what kits are and know a male and female cat CAN have kits and are always making cheeky remarks about future kits for potential litters. Why is anyone surprised or absolutely OBLIVIOUS when actual PREGNANCY is a thing then when they should be able to sense this shit at least by a weird smell or something? I agree with you entirely. In Leafpool's case, not only should ThunderClan have noticed that she was pregnant, but they should have also noticed that Squirrelflight WASN'T pregnant, never has been, and had no signs of kitting a litter. The whole lack of milk thing was a throwaway line in The Sight, but it doesn't seem like any cat questioned it.
A long time ago, like right after Long Shadows came out, I read a fanfic where Leafpool was the Three's mother and she hid her secret by hiding her scent with wild garlic or something similar. But at least there was an attempt to explain why ThunderClan never found out.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 19:04:03 GMT -5
The whole thing with Violetkit and Twigkit being fed chewed-up prey as a substitute for milk. This would probably work if they were like 3 weeks old or something but 2 days??? they can't chew. They can only swallow liquids. A cat trying to stuff chewed up prey down a newborn kitten's mouth would probably choke it to death on accident.
Same thing happened in DOTC when Clear sky killed that nursing mother (uuugh) and Petal took the kits in to raise. Those kits were probably a little older but still, without milk they would have had one hell of a time surviving.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 1, 2020 19:23:36 GMT -5
My personal pet peeve is the fact that hawks and owls have been shown to carry off full grown cats. It's even happened to a pregnant cat. Hawks and owls are unable to lift off fully grown cats. They can hunt kittens, so the instance with Snowkit is understandable. But every time a cat is said to be killed by one of these birds, I always get irritated because it's just not realistic. Adult cats being targeted by birds of prey didn't start happening until OOTS, so I just don't understand why they decided to go this route.
If you're talking about Swoop in Sign of the Moon, she was carried off by an eagle, not a hawk. I don't know enough about birds or cats to know if this is realistic or not, but I know eagles are bigger than hawks and owls and so this makes more sense. I can't recall anytime before AVoS where an adult cat was snatched by a hawk/owl in the forest.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 1, 2020 19:26:15 GMT -5
My biggest thing is the herbs being a magical cure-all for whatever disease they treat. Even real-life medications that are tested and designed to treat an illness don't work 100% of the time, and yet catmint will cure a cat of deathbed-level greencough every single time.
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Asexual
#07B04C
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Name Colour
Ṣanɗypaw™
The Shiny User
🎵Guess that's just the way it goes, easy come, easy go🎵
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Post by Ṣanɗypaw™ on Aug 1, 2020 19:27:39 GMT -5
How kits can talk fluently the second they open their eyes. Idk about language in Warriors but that's just kinda weird.
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 1, 2020 19:30:53 GMT -5
One word. Leafpool.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 19:39:49 GMT -5
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Post by Emberstar 🔥 on Aug 1, 2020 19:42:06 GMT -5
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Post by Showers on Aug 1, 2020 20:04:33 GMT -5
cats getting severely injured every single time they fall out of a tree. cats are able to right themselves immediately when they fall, even when they are a foot above ground. unless cinderheart, micah, and jagged peak are falling out of the equivalent of an eight-story building they shouldn't be injured. cats have way better reflexes then the books give the authors give them credit for.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 20:15:06 GMT -5
cats getting severely injured every single time they fall out of a tree. cats are able to right themselves immediately when they fall, even when they are a foot above ground. unless cinderheart, micah, and jagged peak are falling out of the equivalent of an eight-story building they shouldn't be injured. cats have way better reflexes then the books give the authors give them credit for. This is a huge misconception. A cat can make the impact LESS bad than it would be, but scientific study finds that broken bones are still incredibly common. There was a study on 119 cases from 1998 to 2001, with the vast majority of falls being 4 stories or less. Nevertheless, over 46% of these cats ended up with fractured limbs of various degrees. Those cats could have fallen out of a three or four story tree and still have their injuries make perfect sense. The Erins are actually 100% correct on this matter, falls are dangerous to cats, though usually survivable.
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Post by Skypaw13 on Aug 1, 2020 20:27:48 GMT -5
cats getting severely injured every single time they fall out of a tree. cats are able to right themselves immediately when they fall, even when they are a foot above ground. unless cinderheart, micah, and jagged peak are falling out of the equivalent of an eight-story building they shouldn't be injured. cats have way better reflexes then the books give the authors give them credit for. Talk to any cat owner who either has more than a single story house or lives in an apartment above the first floor and they'll tell you otherwise. We don't open the windows above the first story for a reason.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 1, 2020 20:49:18 GMT -5
journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1016/j.jfms.2003.07.001A good source on injuries from cats falling from high heights, demonstrates just how common various injuries are. I can post excerpts from within it if need be, but the point should be clear. Broken bones are exceedingly common in falls.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Aug 1, 2020 22:32:34 GMT -5
cats doing backflips as a battle move. i just...no.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Aug 1, 2020 23:06:56 GMT -5
That one fox in OOTS is also weird. She's meant to be a vixen yet is huge to a ludicrous extent, it doesn't really make much sense at all since the size of foxes and cats has a heavy overlap and especially with a vixen relative to a tom cat it shouldn't be that big. the gray foxes we have around my state are no bigger than a housecat at like 7-10 lbs, so i always had a hard time picturing them as big threats. but even adult red foxes average maybe 15 lbs. the biggest threat would be competing for prey and kits. similarly, the portrayal of badgers as these horrible killing machines that just attack cats for no reason makes...really no sense. european badgers (presuming the books are set in england) aren't territorial with other species and will even share burrows with other species like foxes. in fact they're rather docile until cornered. they don't usually prey on cats/kits unless they're like, starving. they're also nocturnal to boot unlike these cats and hibernate on/off through winter so they're easy to avoid. honestly it would be more interesting if foxes and badgers were depicted as similarly intelligent animals than as mindless predators. imagine uneasy truces of the odd badgers moving into a corner of their territory. or sly foxes trying to take over a clan's territory with pretty lies. it'd be more interesting than the 200th "cats fight over borders" drama.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 1, 2020 23:41:08 GMT -5
cats getting severely injured every single time they fall out of a tree. cats are able to right themselves immediately when they fall, even when they are a foot above ground. unless cinderheart, micah, and jagged peak are falling out of the equivalent of an eight-story building they shouldn't be injured. cats have way better reflexes then the books give the authors give them credit for. To be fair in regards to this alongside everything else said, and adding a correction for Micah's case, he didn't just fall out of an old tree, he was also crushed by a branch big enough to break his spine. Falling out of a tree by itself didn't kill him but moreso the debris of the fall. He probably could've lived with some bad but possibly survivable injuries had that branch not struck him like Jagged Peak did, but I agree with folks mentioning cats still getting injured despite landing on their feet. It helps lessen the impact somewhat, but let's not treat cats as if they are invulnerable to the strength of these landings either. I'd imagine a human if we had the ability to right ourselves like cats would, would still get broken legs from the impact of a high enough fall (Alas, Parachutes and those tarp-like things or whatever to catch you when you jump out of high areas exist for this). There's still a threshold a cat can jump and not take too much damage. And in the case of trees and other things they can properly climb I'm pretty sure they'd try to at least climb to a safe jumpable distance first before hopping out as well when the things aren't breaking underneath their feet and spooking them. I get the misconception though and in fact I thought cats were immune to the falls as well. But nah, at the end of the day they're still cats, they have limits.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 2, 2020 9:14:47 GMT -5
That one fox in OOTS is also weird. She's meant to be a vixen yet is huge to a ludicrous extent, it doesn't really make much sense at all since the size of foxes and cats has a heavy overlap and especially with a vixen relative to a tom cat it shouldn't be that big. the gray foxes we have around my state are no bigger than a housecat at like 7-10 lbs, so i always had a hard time picturing them as big threats. but even adult red foxes average maybe 15 lbs. the biggest threat would be competing for prey and kits. similarly, the portrayal of badgers as these horrible killing machines that just attack cats for no reason makes...really no sense. european badgers (presuming the books are set in england) aren't territorial with other species and will even share burrows with other species like foxes. in fact they're rather docile until cornered. they don't usually prey on cats/kits unless they're like, starving. they're also nocturnal to boot unlike these cats and hibernate on/off through winter so they're easy to avoid. honestly it would be more interesting if foxes and badgers were depicted as similarly intelligent animals than as mindless predators. imagine uneasy truces of the odd badgers moving into a corner of their territory. or sly foxes trying to take over a clan's territory with pretty lies. it'd be more interesting than the 200th "cats fight over borders" drama. Foxes CAN reach twice the size of an adult cat, but it depends heavily on the individual population and it's far more common for foxes to just be a little bigger, if they're bigger at all because many populations don't get that big and even the ones that do are not so large with vixens. There's many fox populations where vixens actually weigh less on average than tom cats. Especially with sexual dimorphism in play, Lionblaze should not be acting like a vixen is the Hulk. With regards to the badgers, they seem to be composited with American badgers, kind of like a lot of composite things in Warriors, which is where the aggression comes from. I think badgers and foxes ARE intelligent in warriors, it's just that cats can't understand them. It would be nice if they could though, would make things more interesting, as you said.
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Post by halogen on Aug 2, 2020 11:09:44 GMT -5
the gray foxes we have around my state are no bigger than a housecat at like 7-10 lbs, so i always had a hard time picturing them as big threats. but even adult red foxes average maybe 15 lbs. the biggest threat would be competing for prey and kits. similarly, the portrayal of badgers as these horrible killing machines that just attack cats for no reason makes...really no sense. european badgers (presuming the books are set in england) aren't territorial with other species and will even share burrows with other species like foxes. in fact they're rather docile until cornered. they don't usually prey on cats/kits unless they're like, starving. they're also nocturnal to boot unlike these cats and hibernate on/off through winter so they're easy to avoid. honestly it would be more interesting if foxes and badgers were depicted as similarly intelligent animals than as mindless predators. imagine uneasy truces of the odd badgers moving into a corner of their territory. or sly foxes trying to take over a clan's territory with pretty lies. it'd be more interesting than the 200th "cats fight over borders" drama. Foxes CAN reach twice the size of an adult cat, but it depends heavily on the individual population and it's far more common for foxes to just be a little bigger, if they're bigger at all because many populations don't get that big and even the ones that do are not so large with vixens. There's many fox populations where vixens actually weigh less on average than tom cats. Especially with sexual dimorphism in play, Lionblaze should not be acting like a vixen is the Hulk. With regards to the badgers, they seem to be composited with American badgers, kind of like a lot of composite things in Warriors, which is where the aggression comes from. I think badgers and foxes ARE intelligent in warriors, it's just that cats can't understand them. It would be nice if they could though, would make things more interesting, as you said. I like how the cats can't understand them, honestly, even though Midnight shows that they can speak in a language cats don't understand. It never makes sense in some animal stories how every animal can understand every other animal except humans, who somehow can't understand other species or even most other humans because of language barriers. Though it it annoying how the narrative in Twilight treats the badgers attacking ThunderClan as horrible and evil for attacking ThunderClan after they came and drove the badgers out of their home. If WindClan went and attacked ShadowClan after ShadowClan drove them out, no one would call them evil horrible villains, or even from a cross-species angle, no one would call the Clan cats evil if they tried to attack the twolegs when they were destroying the Clans' home (it would obviously be futile and stupid, but not evil!). Of course the Clan cats would see the badgers this way, but even Midnight (and the authors on the official website) say that the badgers are horrible and obsessed with vengeance and never calls out the Clan cats for their own actions despite knowing the badgers are sentient and lived in the lake first.
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