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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 10:40:55 GMT -5
Do you think this StarClan cats belong in The Dark Forest?
I might make one for Dark Forest cats, asking if you think they belong in StarClan, but I'm not sure if Lilywhisker, Deerfoot, Yellowfang's mom, etc, are really there, or if it was just a rumor.
Anyway, here are the list of cats, that I've seen people say, belong in The Dark Forest.
1. Mudclaw 2. Ashfur 3. Onestar 4. Russetfur 5. Raggedstar 6. Someone Else (Name)
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 15, 2020 10:41:42 GMT -5
I can only select one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 10:42:24 GMT -5
Oh crap, I'll try to fix it, thanks for letting me know \ I think it fixed it
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Post by cappuccinokitty on Mar 15, 2020 11:01:07 GMT -5
bUt aShfUrs OnLy cRimE wAs lOvinG toO mUch
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 11:04:44 GMT -5
bUt aShfUrs OnLy cRimE wAs lOvinG toO mUch The ironic thing is...as you post that, your username has Warrior of Love beneath it XDXD
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 11:21:14 GMT -5
1. Mudclaw doesn't belong. Yeah, what he did was wrong, but I think being squished with a tree was enough punishment 2. Ashfur belongs. He tried to kill his leader and three other cats. Because he was jealous. We have Mapleshade in there who had better reason to go crazy. 3. Onestar doesn't deserve it. He was an ass, and I hope he got scolded, but I'm not sure he deserves DF 4. Russetfur doesn't deserve it. She, too, was a massive jerk, but I'm not sure being a nasty cat deserves DF 5. Raggedstar is someone I don't think deserves it either. Yeah, he did dumb stuff, but his dumb decisions led him to getting killed by his son. I'm sure Yellowfang smacked him upside the head when she joined him in Starclan. 6. Thistleclaw. Ignoring SH, which doesn't make sense, Thistleclaw was battle hungry (like Mudclaw) but never made any move of being a traitor to his clan EVEN WHEN BLUESTAR BECAME LEADER/DEPUTY. Yeah, he was a butthead, but being a jerk who is quick to fight does not the DF make
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 11:25:27 GMT -5
1. Mudclaw doesn't belong. Yeah, what he did was wrong, but I think being squished with a tree was enough punishment 2. Ashfur belongs. He tried to kill his leader and three other cats. Because he was jealous. We have Mapleshade in there who had better reason to go crazy. 3. Onestar doesn't deserve it. He was an ass, and I hope he got scolded, but I'm not sure he deserves DF 4. Russetfur doesn't deserve it. She, too, was a massive jerk, but I'm not sure being a nasty cat deserves DF 5. Raggedstar is someone I don't think deserves it either. Yeah, he did dumb stuff, but his dumb decisions led him to getting killed by his son. I'm sure Yellowfang smacked him upside the head when she joined him in Starclan. 6. Thistleclaw. Ignoring SH, which doesn't make sense, Thistleclaw was battle hungry (like Mudclaw) but never made any move of being a traitor to his clan EVEN WHEN BLUESTAR BECAME LEADER/DEPUTY. Yeah, he was a butthead, but being a jerk who is quick to fight does not the DF make I agree..didn't Raggedstar also regret making Brokenstar deputy, and try to right his wrongs before he got killed, or something?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 11:28:28 GMT -5
1. Mudclaw doesn't belong. Yeah, what he did was wrong, but I think being squished with a tree was enough punishment 2. Ashfur belongs. He tried to kill his leader and three other cats. Because he was jealous. We have Mapleshade in there who had better reason to go crazy. 3. Onestar doesn't deserve it. He was an ass, and I hope he got scolded, but I'm not sure he deserves DF 4. Russetfur doesn't deserve it. She, too, was a massive jerk, but I'm not sure being a nasty cat deserves DF 5. Raggedstar is someone I don't think deserves it either. Yeah, he did dumb stuff, but his dumb decisions led him to getting killed by his son. I'm sure Yellowfang smacked him upside the head when she joined him in Starclan. 6. Thistleclaw. Ignoring SH, which doesn't make sense, Thistleclaw was battle hungry (like Mudclaw) but never made any move of being a traitor to his clan EVEN WHEN BLUESTAR BECAME LEADER/DEPUTY. Yeah, he was a butthead, but being a jerk who is quick to fight does not the DF make I agree..didn't Raggedstar also regret making Brokenstar deputy, and try to right his wrongs before he got killed, or something? Yep. To me, he was stupid and impulsive, but not DF worthy. He also helped solve the Sol problem later, and it seemed like him and Yellowfang were on good terms in Starclan? People tend to think a cat being a stupid jerk is worth the DF, but I disagree. I think murdering, being a traitor, and planning clan domination are worthy reasons. The only one of these cats that really fit the bill well are Ashfur, who participated in the plot to murder his LEADER and his attempt to murder 3 others
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 11:34:02 GMT -5
I agree..didn't Raggedstar also regret making Brokenstar deputy, and try to right his wrongs before he got killed, or something? Yep. To me, he was stupid and impulsive, but not DF worthy. He also helped solve the Sol problem later, and it seemed like him and Yellowfang were on good terms in Starclan? People tend to think a cat being a stupid jerk is worth the DF, but I disagree. I think murdering, being a traitor, and planning clan domination are worthy reasons. The only one of these cats that really fit the bill well are Ashfur, who participated in the plot to murder his LEADER and his attempt to murder 3 others True, Raggedstar annoyed the crap out of me for how much he disrespected Yellowfang, and medicine cats as a whole, but I def don't think he should be in The Dark Forest. Up until he started getting bratty about Yellowfang becoming a medicine cat, I didn't mind him, and I could understand why he'd get upset with her, for going to find his father behind his back, and never dropping the conversation about it. Also, I can understand why he was upset she decided to become a medicine cat, they are pretty much already mates, and I don't think he knew about her power. Honestly, I'd probably put him on par with Sandgorse, they're both spoiled brats when they don't get their way, but they're also not villainous.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 11:38:40 GMT -5
Yep. To me, he was stupid and impulsive, but not DF worthy. He also helped solve the Sol problem later, and it seemed like him and Yellowfang were on good terms in Starclan? People tend to think a cat being a stupid jerk is worth the DF, but I disagree. I think murdering, being a traitor, and planning clan domination are worthy reasons. The only one of these cats that really fit the bill well are Ashfur, who participated in the plot to murder his LEADER and his attempt to murder 3 others True, Raggedstar annoyed the crap out of me for how much he disrespected Yellowfang, and medicine cats as a whole, but I def don't think he should be in The Dark Forest. Up until he started getting bratty about Yellowfang becoming a medicine cat, I didn't mind him, and I could understand why he'd get upset with her, for going to find his father behind his back, and never dropping the conversation about it. Also, I can understand why he was upset she decided to become a medicine cat, they are pretty much already mates, and I don't think he knew about her power. Honestly, I'd probably put him on par with Sandgorse, they're both spoiled brats when they don't get their way, but they're also not villainous. I also see why he was blind to Brokenstar's ambitions. Brokenstar was the only surviving kit of his with the she-cat he loved. Love can make you blind, especially love for your children. One of my favorite MAPs is about the relationship between Raggedstar and Yellowfang tho, so I may be biased. I find their relationship interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 11:41:39 GMT -5
True, Raggedstar annoyed the crap out of me for how much he disrespected Yellowfang, and medicine cats as a whole, but I def don't think he should be in The Dark Forest. Up until he started getting bratty about Yellowfang becoming a medicine cat, I didn't mind him, and I could understand why he'd get upset with her, for going to find his father behind his back, and never dropping the conversation about it. Also, I can understand why he was upset she decided to become a medicine cat, they are pretty much already mates, and I don't think he knew about her power. Honestly, I'd probably put him on par with Sandgorse, they're both spoiled brats when they don't get their way, but they're also not villainous. I also see why he was blind to Brokenstar's ambitions. Brokenstar was the only surviving kit of his with the she-cat he loved. Love can make you blind, especially love for your children. One of my favorite MAPs is about the relationship between Raggedstar and Yellowfang tho, so I may be biased. I find their relationship interesting. That's true, before Yellowfang's Secret, I read about him in one of those short stories, I think it was in Secrets of the Clans, and I really liked him, because I thought it was really sweet how much he loved his son, and how proud he was to be a father, and what not. On the other hand..I read a short story about Hailstar, and I didn't like him at all, but after reading Crookedstar's Promise, I liked him a lot lol.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 15, 2020 11:47:03 GMT -5
1. Yeah, he did start a rebellion and all, but, he was robbed of the leadership of WindClan last minute, and he believed that he was following the code that the deputy succeeds the leader. 2. "He only loved too much" my ass. The guy helped kill Firestar (a cat who had treated him with nothing but decency), and planned to kill Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf just to hurt Squirrelflight. If Ashfur IS the impostor, then all the stunts he pulled in The Silent Thaw just make it more evident that he needs to go to the Place of No Stars. 3. He was rude and just an ass in general, but I don't think that's DF-worthy. 4. Pretty devoted to ShadowClan even though she wasn't Clanborn. The only bad things I can ever remember her doing was not helping Berrynose when his tail got trapped, and when she kill Firestar. I can see her being aggressive and all, but not DF-worthy. 5. Quick to act, and rude (borderline abusive, I'd say) but I don't think he was intentionally a terrible cat. He did seem to regret making Brokentail deputy after how evil he realized his son was. 6. Rainflower abused and neglected Crookedstar because he had an injury, placing Oakheart up on a pedestal and was willing to break up with Shellheart over how poorly she treated her own son. Like, she even went as far as to rename him for his disability? She was a horrible mother. Seeing how she's in StarClan, I at least hope she apologized to Crookedstar for all that she did.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 11:55:51 GMT -5
HollyfallI agree with all of this SpinestarI completely agree, especially up until that point, he'd done NOTHING wrong, people think he's bad for not being by Tallstar's side, like Onewhisker was, while he was sick, and instead trying to "take over the clan", but that's his JOB. Tallstar was too sick to lead WindClan, so it was up to Mudclaw. And even during his rebellion, he never killed anyone. I wonder if Tallstar ever told him what really happened, and that he did make Onewhisker deputy, and they weren't trying to pull a fast one, when he got up to StarClan?
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Post by platinum blond death on Mar 15, 2020 12:08:36 GMT -5
1. Mudclaw was stripped of his position simply because Tallstar had a vision that he would be bloodthirsty. I can see why he would start the whole thing--he was the rightful leader until Tallstar's final moments. What he did was right in his eyes, seeing as only a couple cats could confirm that Onewhisker had indeed gotten the deputy position. 2. Oh definitely. Not only did he try to kill the cat he loved and her kits because she didn't love him back, he tried to kill her father too. Who has done nothing to him, and he simply wants to kill Firestar to hurt Squirrelflight. That should place him in the df. like tomless said, if he is the imposter, that means even more that he should be in the DF. He's tried to kill someone indirectly, he's abusing his power, and twisting the warrior code for his own means. 3. Onestar denied herbs to ShadowClan simply because Darktail was there, and many cats died because of him, but I'm iffy on this one. Does he deserve the DF? No, not really, but does he deserve StarClan? Eh. 4. Russetfur was jerk, at least in Sunset, but in Fading Echoes, she was protecting that strip of land . . . 5. He may be a terrible father and a terrible mate, but he wasn't the worst leader ever. Although one of his worst mistakes was making Brokentail deputy, but then again, who knew that Brokenstar would murder his own father? 6. Lizardstripe and Rainflower. Rainflower abused and neglected her son simply because he was ugly, causing poor Crookedkit distress, and made Hailstar change his name. No? Why would you do that? That's so cruel, and is blaming him for the accident, rather than Goosefeather and also herself for not keeping an eye on him. Why were they even out of camp? As for Lizardstripe, she physically abused Brokenkit, depriving him of milk and nipping and growling at him simply because she didn't want him. She also let her kits taunt Brokenkit. Hell, she didn't even want kits herself! I can only hope that these two truly regret what they have done, and that Rainflower apologizes (genuinely) to Crookedstar and Shellheart.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 12:11:53 GMT -5
platinum blond deathLizardstripe and Rainflower were the WORST mothers in the series, hands down...I should have added them in the other poll
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 15, 2020 15:40:11 GMT -5
I 100% support Mudclaw's actions. Like if you served as second-in-command for years and as you're about to be promoted you randomly lose your position in a heartbeat thanks to the word of 3 people, two being from a rival group who have nothing to do with anything, over something that can't even be proved, you're gonna be triggered af. I'd be upset but I'd hope I wouldn't sell out my clan to become someone else's dog and make schemes to randomly conquer other clans on the whims of this new master. Still not DF worthy, but it's ignoring the bigger issue with Mudclaw. His worst act WAS NOT rebelling against Onestar, it was also agreeing to make Hawkfrost his deputy as a reward and then go and kill/despose Leopardstar and Mistyfoot. He didn't do these things, but intent matters more than success in a crime(see Ashfur). Mudclaw is no Ashfur though, I will say, and the DF issue is a little more difficult because he got killed way too early for his plans to manifest. Throw him in whatever place Needletail was, I say, that ought to be good enough. Likewise for Onestar and Raggedstar, but no DF. Only DF one here is Ashfur for obvious reasons.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 15:43:35 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think I'd put Rainflower or Lizardstripe in the DF either. They'd get a Needletail/Purgatory/think about your actions place before going on.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 15, 2020 15:47:56 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think I'd put Rainflower or Lizardstripe in the DF either. They'd get a Needletail/Purgatory/think about your actions place before going on. Hot take, Rainflower's abuse wasn't as much as I expected from the fandom when I began to read the book. Don't get me wrong, she's an awful mother, absolutely abusive in her treatment of Crookedpaw, etc., but it's very much an afterthought in the book's narrative. It gives the impression of something that, while a defining moment, wasn't exactly Rainflower haunting his every move. Absolutely deserves purgatory for it, but DF seems a little much. Maybe it's just a symptom of Crookedstar's Promise being rather underwhelming to me after all the hype, but she was not as awful as I had initially thought. Could be dunked in purgatory a while and come out a better person, I feel.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 15:49:58 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion, but I don't think I'd put Rainflower or Lizardstripe in the DF either. They'd get a Needletail/Purgatory/think about your actions place before going on. Hot take, Rainflower's abuse wasn't as much as I expected from the fandom when I began to read the book. Don't get me wrong, she's an awful mother, absolutely abusive in her treatment of Crookedpaw, etc., but it's very much an afterthought in the book's narrative. It gives the impression of something that, while a defining moment, wasn't exactly Rainflower haunting his every move. Absolutely deserves purgatory for it, but DF seems a little much. Maybe it's just a symptom of Crookedstar's Promise being rather underwhelming to me after all the hype, but she was not as awful as I had initially thought. Could be dunked in purgatory a while and come out a better person, I feel. That's how I feel about a lot of cats people want to yeet into the DF. Most cats might have done super questionable things, but DF worthy? Like, Tigerstar, Brokenstar, and Hawkfrost are the type of cats that deserve the DF. They're actively malicious, actively threatening. Rainflower was disgusting towards her child, but is she really on that kind of level?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 20:17:41 GMT -5
1. Yeah, he did start a rebellion and all, but, he was robbed of the leadership of WindClan last minute, and he believed that he was following the code that the deputy succeeds the leader. 2. "He only loved too much" my ass. The guy helped kill Firestar (a cat who had treated him with nothing but decency), and planned to kill Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf just to hurt Squirrelflight. If Ashfur IS the impostor, then all the stunts he pulled in The Silent Thaw just make it more evident that he needs to go to the Place of No Stars. 3. He was rude and just an ass in general, but I don't think that's DF-worthy. 4. Pretty devoted to ShadowClan even though she wasn't Clanborn. The only bad things I can ever remember her doing was not helping Berrynose when his tail got trapped, and when she kill Firestar. I can see her being aggressive and all, but not DF-worthy. 5. Quick to act, and rude (borderline abusive, I'd say) but I don't think he was intentionally a terrible cat. He did seem to regret making Brokentail deputy after how evil he realized his son was. 6. Rainflower abused and neglected Crookedstar because he had an injury, placing Oakheart up on a pedestal and was willing to break up with Shellheart over how poorly she treated her own son. Like, she even went as far as to rename him for his disability? She was a horrible mother. Seeing how she's in StarClan, I at least hope she apologized to Crookedstar for all that she did. Rainflower didn't even give Crookedstar a life. She didn't even show up during the ceremony. Screw her. If I was Crookedstar, I'd never talk to her again.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 15, 2020 20:48:33 GMT -5
@happy413
Did she really deserve to give him a life though?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 21:07:44 GMT -5
@happy413 Did she really deserve to give him a life though? True.
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Post by KittyClearsight on Mar 15, 2020 22:02:56 GMT -5
Ashfur is the only one on this list who should be in the Dark Forest.
With the information given, Mudclaw honestly had a right to be angry, he served a long time as Deputy and was stiffed out of leadership based only on the word of two ThunderClan cats who was buddies with Onestar at the time. If it turns out he was loyal to the Dark Forest then my opinion may change lol
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 23:51:11 GMT -5
Ashfur is the only one on this list who should be in the Dark Forest. With the information given, Mudclaw honestly had a right to be angry, he served a long time as Deputy and was stiffed out of leadership based only on the word of two ThunderClan cats who was buddies with Onestar at the time. If it turns out he was loyal to the Dark Forest then my opinion may change lol In Omen of the Stars, he helped prepare StarClan for the battle with the DF
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Post by Mistybreeze on Mar 16, 2020 3:14:14 GMT -5
Mudclaw- Absolutely not. He was cheated out of leadership under suspicious circumstances. Who in their right mind would be okay with that? If anything, he was simply too loyal to the warrior code. Rather than step down to keep the peace after the long journey, he tried to claim what was rightfully his. While he technically was within the code to do this, he ended causing a tone of trouble before the Clans had even settled into their new home. But ultimately, he was a good cat at heart who was trying his best. His appearances in StarClan have proven that.
Ashfur- Yes, 100% yes. He tried to kill five cats. He threw a temper tantrum over his rejected advances and tried to murder the girl and her family members in retaliation. Easiest yes ever.
Onestar- This is tricky, but I ultimately voted no. His life was a string of misfortunes. Driven out with his Clan at a young age, had kits with a kittypet, forced into a leadership role he didn't want, forced to end a longtime friendship to keep order in his Clan, and ultimately saw his outcast son return to wreck havoc in retaliation and dies killing his own son. What a life. While the Mudclaw situation was not his fault, he also had the opportunity to back down and let Mudclaw take power. The Eclipse battle was completely unprovoked and incredibly cruel. There is no justifying that. Onestar's fatal flaw was his obsession with appearances and his reputation. He rejected Darktail because he was afraid of how his Clan would react. He later withdrew WC from the first SS battle because Darktail threatened to reveal the truth. He ended his friendship with Firestar because of the negative reputation is gave him. When public hostility towards Firestar and TC didn't work, he resorted to a cowardly attack in the middle of the night. This said, I'm not sure if Onestar was necessarily bad. He seems to fall more into the morally gray area. For this reason, I couldn't put him in the DF.
Russetfur- No. Other than the Berrynose incident, she hasn't done anything to warrant even a question. She was incredibly old by FE and could very well be losing it when she attacked Firestar. One or two bad actions is rarely enough to warrant eternal hell.
Raggedstar- No. His only crime was taking Yellowfang for a mate. Like Russetfur, he led a largely good life and his few crimes were not terribly grave. And no, I do not consider him appointing Brokentail deputy a crime. He met all of the 'legal' criteria, but Raggedstar was blinded by his love for his son. If you want to talk about loving too much, this applies to Raggedstar much more than Ashfur.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 16, 2020 7:55:08 GMT -5
Mudclaw- Absolutely not. He was cheated out of leadership under suspicious circumstances. Who in their right mind would be okay with that? If anything, he was simply too loyal to the warrior code. Rather than step down to keep the peace after the long journey, he tried to claim what was rightfully his. While he technically was within the code to do this, he ended causing a tone of trouble before the Clans had even settled into their new home. But ultimately, he was a good cat at heart who was trying his best. His appearances in StarClan have proven that. Ashfur- Yes, 100% yes. He tried to kill five cats. He threw a temper tantrum over his rejected advances and tried to murder the girl and her family members in retaliation. Easiest yes ever. Onestar- This is tricky, but I ultimately voted no. His life was a string of misfortunes. Driven out with his Clan at a young age, had kits with a kittypet, forced into a leadership role he didn't want, forced to end a longtime friendship to keep order in his Clan, and ultimately saw his outcast son return to wreck havoc in retaliation and dies killing his own son. What a life. While the Mudclaw situation was not his fault, he also had the opportunity to back down and let Mudclaw take power. The Eclipse battle was completely unprovoked and incredibly cruel. There is no justifying that. Onestar's fatal flaw was his obsession with appearances and his reputation. He rejected Darktail because he was afraid of how his Clan would react. He later withdrew WC from the first SS battle because Darktail threatened to reveal the truth. He ended his friendship with Firestar because of the negative reputation is gave him. When public hostility towards Firestar and TC didn't work, he resorted to a cowardly attack in the middle of the night. This said, I'm not sure if Onestar was necessarily bad. He seems to fall more into the morally gray area. For this reason, I couldn't put him in the DF. Russetfur- No. Other than the Berrynose incident, she hasn't done anything to warrant even a question. She was incredibly old by FE and could very well be losing it when she attacked Firestar. One or two bad actions is rarely enough to warrant eternal hell. Raggedstar- No. His only crime was taking Yellowfang for a mate. Like Russetfur, he led a largely good life and his few crimes were not terribly grave. And no, I do not consider him appointing Brokentail deputy a crime. He met all of the 'legal' criteria, but Raggedstar was blinded by his love for his son. If you want to talk about loving too much, this applies to Raggedstar much more than Ashfur. Raggedstar also killed his father when he posed no threat just because he snarked at him.
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Post by jayfeather1234 on Mar 18, 2020 19:09:39 GMT -5
I like all these characters due to them being morally gray rather than extremely good or extremely bad. I liked though behind what the erins intended for Ashfur to be but I don’t like how his character ended up leaning more towards the evil side.
I want more plotlines with conflicts involving characters like Mudclaw, Onestar, Raggedstar, Russetfur, and what the erins intended for Ashfur’s personality to be. I would especially like more plotlines involving misunderstandings and every character believing that what they are doing is the right thing. To put it simply, I want plotlines simply to what is found in A Song Of Ice And Fire.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 19, 2020 23:28:03 GMT -5
I like all these characters due to them being morally gray rather than extremely good or extremely bad. I liked though behind what the erins intended for Ashfur to be but I don’t like how his character ended up leaning more towards the evil side. I want more plotlines with conflicts involving characters like Mudclaw, Onestar, Raggedstar, Russetfur, and what the erins intended for Ashfur’s personality to be. I would especially like more plotlines involving misunderstandings and every character believing that what they are doing is the right thing. To put it simply, I want plotlines simply to what is found in A Song Of Ice And Fire. I for one don't want magical sniper ballista appearing randomly to wreck dragons, thank you very much.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Mar 20, 2020 15:10:30 GMT -5
Mudclaw- Absolutely not. He was cheated out of leadership under suspicious circumstances. Who in their right mind would be okay with that? If anything, he was simply too loyal to the warrior code. Rather than step down to keep the peace after the long journey, he tried to claim what was rightfully his. While he technically was within the code to do this, he ended causing a tone of trouble before the Clans had even settled into their new home. But ultimately, he was a good cat at heart who was trying his best. His appearances in StarClan have proven that. Ashfur- Yes, 100% yes. He tried to kill five cats. He threw a temper tantrum over his rejected advances and tried to murder the girl and her family members in retaliation. Easiest yes ever. Onestar- This is tricky, but I ultimately voted no. His life was a string of misfortunes. Driven out with his Clan at a young age, had kits with a kittypet, forced into a leadership role he didn't want, forced to end a longtime friendship to keep order in his Clan, and ultimately saw his outcast son return to wreck havoc in retaliation and dies killing his own son. What a life. While the Mudclaw situation was not his fault, he also had the opportunity to back down and let Mudclaw take power. The Eclipse battle was completely unprovoked and incredibly cruel. There is no justifying that. Onestar's fatal flaw was his obsession with appearances and his reputation. He rejected Darktail because he was afraid of how his Clan would react. He later withdrew WC from the first SS battle because Darktail threatened to reveal the truth. He ended his friendship with Firestar because of the negative reputation is gave him. When public hostility towards Firestar and TC didn't work, he resorted to a cowardly attack in the middle of the night. This said, I'm not sure if Onestar was necessarily bad. He seems to fall more into the morally gray area. For this reason, I couldn't put him in the DF. Russetfur- No. Other than the Berrynose incident, she hasn't done anything to warrant even a question. She was incredibly old by FE and could very well be losing it when she attacked Firestar. One or two bad actions is rarely enough to warrant eternal hell. Raggedstar- No. His only crime was taking Yellowfang for a mate. Like Russetfur, he led a largely good life and his few crimes were not terribly grave. And no, I do not consider him appointing Brokentail deputy a crime. He met all of the 'legal' criteria, but Raggedstar was blinded by his love for his son. If you want to talk about loving too much, this applies to Raggedstar much more than Ashfur. Raggedstar also killed his father when he posed no threat just because he snarked at him. Which was bad, but Hal wasn't a very good cat either and Raggedstar's anger came from being mocked his entire life for his kittypet blood, which Hal stupidly prodded at. I don't think it's DF worthy. Worse cats have gone to Starclan
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