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Post by Sundance on Mar 20, 2020 16:01:02 GMT -5
I love to play Devils Advocate with Ashfur and argue that he would deserve to be in StarClan IF he truly regretted his actions after death, with no desire to do harm again. In part, because the Dark Forest - as of OOTS - is evidently a place for cats who wish to destroy the Clans, which doesn’t fit Ashfur’s MO. His vendetta was against Squirrelflight and her loved ones, with him possessing a fierce loyalty to the Clans otherwise. So it would be harsh to throw him in the Dark Forest - solely as punishment for his past crimes, not based on his theoretical current state of mind - when the other residents would surely kill him the moment he didn’t submit, unless the point WAS to feed him to the wolves. (Ashfur’s actions were bad, but are they really punishable by death, twice? Hollyleaf playing judge, jury, and executioner would have been enough of a “punishment” for his crimes if he had a change of heart suddenly post-death IMO) Now, imagining there’s a section of the Dark Forest where you can simply wander, hopelessly, about, as I like to imagine there is .... I can see how that’d be a good fit for him and it’d be much easier to argue for putting a cat of his stature there. But I ultimately think Ashfur should have went to a limbo, of sorts. Forced to wander in the no mans land around StarClan and the Dark Forest, where he’d be made to reflect deeply on his actions, before having to FULLY commit to being either good or bad. And if his heart wasn’t in it one way or another - he’d fade away forever. On a similar note, I hate the concept of there being a panel of StarClan cats who decide whether you’re allowed entry - that system is inherently flawed because StarClan cats are not without flaw. In my opinion, it makes more sense to have a magical, unbiased invisible border wall that automatically denies entry to cats whose hearts aren't pure enough. (*everything I said about Ashfur above is solely in regards to plot events up to OOTS, and no later in the series.)
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 20, 2020 16:17:10 GMT -5
I love to play Devils Advocate with Ashfur and argue that he would deserve to be in StarClan IF he truly regretted his actions after death, with no desire to do harm again. In part, because the Dark Forest - as of OOTS - is evidently a place for cats who wish to destroy the Clans, which doesn’t fit Ashfur’s MO. His vendetta was against Squirrelflight and her loved ones, with him possessing a fierce loyalty to the Clans otherwise. So it would be harsh to throw him in the Dark Forest - solely as punishment for his past crimes, not based on his theoretical current state of mind - when the other residents would surely kill him the moment he didn’t submit, unless the point WAS to feed him to the wolves. (Ashfur’s actions were bad, but are they really punishable by death, twice? Hollyleaf playing judge, jury, and executioner would have been enough of a “punishment” for his crimes if he had a change of heart suddenly post-death IMO) Now, imagining there’s a section of the Dark Forest where you can simply wander, hopelessly, about, as I like to imagine there is .... I can see how that’d be a good fit for him and it’d be much easier to argue for putting a cat of his stature there. But I ultimately think Ashfur should have went to a limbo, of sorts. Forced to wander in the no mans land around StarClan and the Dark Forest, where he’d be made to reflect deeply on his actions, before having to FULLY commit to being either good or bad. And if his heart wasn’t in it one way or another - he’d fade away forever. On a similar note, I hate the concept of there being a panel of StarClan cats who decide whether you’re allowed entry - that system is inherently flawed because StarClan cats are not without flaw. In my opinion, it makes more sense to have a magical, unbiased invisible border wall that automatically denies entry to cats whose hearts aren't pure enough. (*everything I said about Ashfur above is solely in regards to plot events up to OOTS, and no later in the series.) Darkstripe, Brokenstar, and Tigerstar didn't want to destroy the clans either. Tigerstar just wanted to unite them and Darkstripe by his death just wanted revenge for Tigerstar and didn't care whatsoever about whose side that helped. Brokenstar wanted Shadowclan to conquer everyone else. None of these are a want to destroy the clans, and Darkstripe's in particular is a totally personal vendetta. If one takes Tigerstar's words in OOTS as true, then he only wanted revenge against Firestar in the end too, and he didn't care at all about destroying the clans.
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Post by jayfeather1234 on Mar 23, 2020 19:02:00 GMT -5
I like all these characters due to them being morally gray rather than extremely good or extremely bad. I liked though behind what the erins intended for Ashfur to be but I don’t like how his character ended up leaning more towards the evil side. I want more plotlines with conflicts involving characters like Mudclaw, Onestar, Raggedstar, Russetfur, and what the erins intended for Ashfur’s personality to be. I would especially like more plotlines involving misunderstandings and every character believing that what they are doing is the right thing. To put it simply, I want plotlines simply to what is found in A Song Of Ice And Fire. I for one don't want magical sniper ballista appearing randomly to wreck dragons, thank you very much. That was in the show, the books haven’t been completed yet and that one scene probably won’t happen, though if Euron does still kill Rhaegal in the books, then it will probably make more sense rather than appearing out of nowhere. However, I don’t think it will happen in the books as The dragons are still in Mereen and Euron is preparing to attack Oldtown through the use of a blood sacrifice of religious figures of many religions, including his own brother.
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Deputy LEADER
❄️Frøstflåmë🔥
Hi. I'm a silent furry-ear named Atori. I carry around a huge sword. Mind your feet!
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Post by ❄️Frøstflåmë🔥 on Apr 20, 2020 22:42:47 GMT -5
My someone else is Rainflower, Crookedstar's mother. She was extremely mean to him when he broke his jaw in Crookedstar's Promise.
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Bisexual
barley
Bramblestar Hater
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Post by barley on Apr 20, 2020 23:28:46 GMT -5
1. Mudclaw Yes, I think he belongs in the Dark Forest. He plotted with RiverClan cats, betraying his clan, because he was ambitious. I could understand being upset, but he betrayed his clan and planned on killing Onewhisker.
2. Ashfur Yes. He tried to murder multiple cats.
3. Onestar No. He's just a stupid asshole.
4. Russetfur No, the only time she ever broke the code was ignoring Berrykit, and the rest of the time she was a loyal ShadowClan cat.
5. Raggedstar I think he deserved to go the Dark Forest. He was awful and abusive, and a murderer at that.
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