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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 5, 2020 14:39:44 GMT -5
(THIS IS TAKEN FROM MY ORIGINAL POST ON REDDIT HERE: www.reddit.com/r/WarriorCats/comments/fe0mee/ranting_with_raven_my_impostor_theory/ AND HAS MAJOR SPOILERS!!! )
So many people are thinking the possessor of Bramblestar is Ashfur. While it makes sense, I think Hollyleaf's trust in him in StarClan and the fact that Ashfur seemed rather friendly means he is truly done with the whole Squirrelflight thing. People say he was good at "pretending" to be a "good guy" but if you read Power Of Three you soon realize that he was never pretending to be good. He was always openly bitter even to the point of hurting Lionpaw! He just acted himself and nobody got the hint he was in pain even though it was clearly there. No, he wouldn't be pretending. He would show more bitterness.
If it is Ashfur, my theory isn't because he wants revenge on Squirrelflight, despite the fact whoevee it is tried to kill Sparkpelt. No, I think it'd be more because her breaking the warrior code led to his death...even though I doubt it because he seems fine with being among kin there. My other reason is because now he's closer to Hollyleaf...maybe they're both desperate to make cats follow the code. And yet that doesn't make any sense, as it seems like that cat who's doing this is using the code against the Clans, not trying to prove that the code is a good thing.
My second theory is maybe that Sol died. It makes sense for him to want to have power over the Clans and use the code against them. He hates the code. And I can see him getting a fondness for Squirrelflight because, well, she's not unlikable it seems by any means.
Darktail is another cat. He would love to use the code against the Clans.
If Sleekwhisker had died it could be her, although it doesn't explain why she would have any "love" for Squirrelflight. Any dead rogue, really. Maybe even Scourge! I don't think so, though, but still...
Skystar maybe? But even he wouldn't be dumb enough to put all five Clans in danger. I can see him wanting vengeance on every Clan who threw his Clan out and I often wonder if he rejoined the other Clans in StarClan or went to be brooding alone.
Maybe Mapleshade? I can see her wanting to wreak havoc on ThunderClan still. She would definitely want to end the warrior code. If she hadn't faded already. I think she would try using the code against the Clans.
Thistleclaw? He seems like a likely candidate. He didn't seem close to fading and he would probably want a chance to not only be leader but to totally cause chaos to the Clans.
Ashfur would know more about ThunderClan than this impostor seems to. Keep in mind that he probably watches them from StarClan. He's also loved by his kin there. His death is also recent enough for him to know some names that this impostor doesn't, and I know he respected his Clanmates more.
Mapleshade and Thistleclaw wouldn't be know their names. They wouldn't care, just like this impostor. Nor would any passed rogues. Thistleclaw and Mapleshade would only know the names of important cats...which seems to be the case.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 15:32:43 GMT -5
It always makes me happy seeing theories that include other cats being the impostor rather than just Ashfur. As for having love for Squirrelflight, or being obsessed with her or whatever..I think he initially wanted to keep Squirrelflight around him at all times, because he knew that she and Bramblestar were mates, and he probably figured, that this is how they were with each other. Plus, if he was truly in love with her, or obsessed with her, why would he exile her? I think that at first, he was trying to convince everyone that he was Bramblestar, but after getting a bunch of spies working for him, he stopped caring as much about holding up appearances.
Also, about Mapleshade, I don't think she's fading anymore..don't cats fade after they get forgotten? She's def being remembered after the DF battle.
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Post by halogen on Mar 5, 2020 18:35:24 GMT -5
While we are talking about Mapleshade, I just thought of a rather unlikely/never going to happen theory - what if it was Oakstar? He was a ThunderClan leader and Bramblestar's great-grandfather, and we know he was very serious about code breaking and infamously exiled some kits just for being half-Clan. Maybe what Mapleshade did just made him feel vindicated and he feels the Dark Forest battle was proof that codebreakers will always destroy the Clans if they aren't stopped.
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 5, 2020 18:59:04 GMT -5
It always makes me happy seeing theories that include other cats being the impostor rather than just Ashfur. As for having love for Squirrelflight, or being obsessed with her or whatever..I think he initially wanted to keep Squirrelflight around him at all times, because he knew that she and Bramblestar were mates, and he probably figured, that this is how they were with each other. Plus, if he was truly in love with her, or obsessed with her, why would he exile her? I think that at first, he was trying to convince everyone that he was Bramblestar, but after getting a bunch of spies working for him, he stopped caring as much about holding up appearances. Also, about Mapleshade, I don't think she's fading anymore..don't cats fade after they get forgotten? She's def being remembered after the DF battle. Yes!! And I kinda agree with the fading thing. She probably isn't because...well, her memory is definitely ingrained in many cats. Ivypool, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Squirrelflight, Leafpool, Breezepelt, uh...any other cat alive during that time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 19:03:23 GMT -5
It always makes me happy seeing theories that include other cats being the impostor rather than just Ashfur. As for having love for Squirrelflight, or being obsessed with her or whatever..I think he initially wanted to keep Squirrelflight around him at all times, because he knew that she and Bramblestar were mates, and he probably figured, that this is how they were with each other. Plus, if he was truly in love with her, or obsessed with her, why would he exile her? I think that at first, he was trying to convince everyone that he was Bramblestar, but after getting a bunch of spies working for him, he stopped caring as much about holding up appearances. Also, about Mapleshade, I don't think she's fading anymore..don't cats fade after they get forgotten? She's def being remembered after the DF battle. Yes!! And I kinda agree with the fading thing. She probably isn't because...well, her memory is definitely ingrained in many cats. Ivypool, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Squirrelflight, Leafpool, Breezepelt, uh...any other cat alive during that time. Yeah, true I don't even get fading, because won't the cats in StarClan or the DF remember each other? Or is it just the living cats memory of them that counts? If so, then that's pretty sad
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 5, 2020 19:37:41 GMT -5
Yes!! And I kinda agree with the fading thing. She probably isn't because...well, her memory is definitely ingrained in many cats. Ivypool, Jayfeather, Lionblaze, Squirrelflight, Leafpool, Breezepelt, uh...any other cat alive during that time. Yeah, true I don't even get fading, because won't the cats in StarClan or the DF remember each other? Or is it just the living cats memory of them that counts? If so, then that's pretty sad I agree! I think it is just the living cats...but it doesn't explain the fact that Fallen Leaves was alone in the tunnels or the first founding leaders still exist. Apparently the cats of StarClan rarely even see the founding leaders! I dunno where the heck they reside but apparently somewhere? Also the Ancients "took Fallen Leaves with him". Wouldn't that mean they faded? A whole lotta stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 19:43:48 GMT -5
Yeah, true I don't even get fading, because won't the cats in StarClan or the DF remember each other? Or is it just the living cats memory of them that counts? If so, then that's pretty sad I agree! I think it is just the living cats...but it doesn't explain the fact that Fallen Leaves was alone in the tunnels or the first founding leaders still exist. Apparently the cats of StarClan rarely even see the founding leaders! I dunno where the heck they reside but apparently somewhere? Also the Ancients "took Fallen Leaves with him". Wouldn't that mean they faded? A whole lotta stuff. That is really confusing, a lot of contradictory stuff there.
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Post by halogen on Mar 5, 2020 22:20:51 GMT -5
If it is just living memory, who was remembering Fallen Leaves from when he was alive that whole time anyway? How was he still around when Mapleshade, who lived way later, was close to fading?
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 5, 2020 22:28:33 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one who has a different idea as to who the impostor might be.
I get that there's some evidence for Ashfur, but if it is him, I wouldn't expect him to exile Squirrelflight. He "loved too much" according to Yellowfang. x) Maybe it's him, maybe not. We'll all have to wait and see.
He also seemed pretty calm in StarClan.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 6, 2020 3:11:52 GMT -5
Okay, but like...he literally tried to burn her and her kits alive and then was planning to reveal the truth about them to ruin their reputation? It makes sense he would exile her because despite having Bramblestar's face, she still didn't want him after all that time. I'm pretty sure it makes sense for him to be angry about that and retaliate, just like he did when they were alive. Just because he had feelings for her doesn't mean he's above hurting her, this was already a proven fact in the series. I'd be open more other possibilities, but I never see anyone with any actual real reasonings. Ones that make sense in the current canon. I do respect your opinions though, and I have a few of my own. Sol x Squirrelflight is a very out of the blue thing, like very. Sol showed no interest in romance when he was alive, and not just because he didn't have a mate. There was literally a she-cat peddling after him openly, named Speckle, who still defended him after he abandoned their group. She even points out that Sol wouldn't have been Ashfur's murderer because he's never willing to get his paws dirty. And that's true, he was never much of a fighter, manipulative and cowardly. Sol may hate the code, but so did a lot of villains in the series, he's not the only one with a vendetta against it.
Scourge is Squirrelflight's uncle, I highly doubt he'd be the imposter because it would make the whole Squirrel x Imposter scenes very creepy. Also, it can't be Sleekwhisker or Mapleshade either, the voice was male.
Darktail didn't have any interest in the code, he only cared about tearing down the clans to get his revenge on his father. He believed that his group should be built on "trust" and "family" his own man-made kin group, but it's obviously fake compared to real bonds of the clan cats. His morals were bad because he was raised that way with hatred, and he barely had any understanding of the warrior code in general, the only things he knew were from the stories his mother probably told him, the little he learned in the isolated clan of Sky, and the rest in an already shattering ShadowClan. He made no move or interest to implement the code or twist it to his liking while in control of ShadowClan if anything his way of doing things directly clashed with the Warrior Code.
I personally wouldn't mind the idea of Thistleclaw, but I doubt the Erins would risk using him again after the SH controversy and backlash. Thistleclaw isn't above being the romantic type, but the problem is is that he doesn't know Squirrelflight on a personal level as the imposter did. Not to mention, Thistleclaw despised the warrior code, Mapleshade as well, and they were part of the groups that wanted to tear it down for what it represented. Also, it would make no sense for Mapleshade or Thistleclaw not to know newer cats if it were them, both of them were responsible for manipulating new and fresh cats to recruit by making false bonds with them and luring them in. It's a tactic the DF cats did. And as of right now, neither Mapleshade or Thistleclaw have any cats alive they'd have personal vendettas with...Mapleshade hated Sandstorm and she's long gone, so is Spottedleaf. And why isn't Thistleclaw going for Mistystar and RiverClan? I mean she is Bluestar's kin, it almost makes me wish it actually were him too, so RiverClan could finally get more spotlight again.
Ashfur loved by his kin? Where was that shown, the only scene I remember was him with Hollyleaf. And even if he's loved by his kin, it doesn't change that he was loved when he was still alive by Ferncloud. Yet he still did those horrible things to Squirrelflight. In fact, he was quite popular in ThunderClan considering how angry every cat was about his death and was adamant about finding the killer. And Ashfur's death is not recent enough. Ashfur died, in Warriors time, ages ago, before at the end of POT. That's at least 3+ generations ago. And keep in mind Squirrelflight and Bramblestar are some of the oldest cats in the series now, and some of the few that even remember the old forest. Meaning from the time this is happening and back during Ashfur's death, it's a few generations, meaning several years. A recent death would be Darktail, not Ashfur. To put this into perspective, Firestar is Bristlefrost's great-great-grandfather, Crowfeather is her great-grandfather, and Lionblaze is her grandfather, and she's already an adult.
The problem with the imposter is that there's already a certain mold that was made pertaining to who it is. -They're a tom, because the voice that spoke with Shadowsight was male. -They know about TC's lake territories, along with older hunting grounds. -They're enamored with Squirrleflight but also willing to hurt her.
I find it hard to believe it's not Ashfur, but at the same time I don't think he's working alone tbh.
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Heterosexual
Spinestar
Got The Ashfur Tattoo!
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Post by Spinestar on Mar 6, 2020 6:21:40 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one who has a different idea as to who the impostor might be. I get that there's some evidence for Ashfur, but if it is him, I wouldn't expect him to exile Squirrelflight. He "loved too much" according to Yellowfang. x) Maybe it's him, maybe not. We'll all have to wait and see. He also seemed pretty calm in StarClan. He wanted the Clans to drive her out after revealing the truth about her kits in LS. So it makes perfect sense to want her driven out. Besides, Ashfur clearly has other plans, and Squirrelflight is interfering in them. Ashfur even sounded concerned for her when she was on her first “exile”
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 6, 2020 22:34:46 GMT -5
Glad I'm not the only one who has a different idea as to who the impostor might be. I get that there's some evidence for Ashfur, but if it is him, I wouldn't expect him to exile Squirrelflight. He "loved too much" according to Yellowfang. x) Maybe it's him, maybe not. We'll all have to wait and see. He also seemed pretty calm in StarClan. He wanted the Clans to drive her out after revealing the truth about her kits in LS. So it makes perfect sense to want her driven out. Besides, Ashfur clearly has other plans, and Squirrelflight is interfering in them. Ashfur even sounded concerned for her when she was on her first “exile” Did he? I thought he was just going to tell the whole gathering, not also want her to be driven out. Guess I'll find out for sure when I get to rereading that part.
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Heterosexual
Spinestar
Got The Ashfur Tattoo!
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Post by Spinestar on Mar 7, 2020 8:42:32 GMT -5
He wanted the Clans to drive her out after revealing the truth about her kits in LS. So it makes perfect sense to want her driven out. Besides, Ashfur clearly has other plans, and Squirrelflight is interfering in them. Ashfur even sounded concerned for her when she was on her first “exile” Did he? I thought he was just going to tell the whole gathering, not also want her to be driven out. Guess I'll find out for sure when I get to rereading that part. He says that when he is talking to Hollyleaf (or maybe Lionblaze) after the Fire scene
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 7, 2020 21:55:15 GMT -5
Okay, but like...he literally tried to burn her and her kits alive and then was planning to reveal the truth about them to ruin their reputation? It makes sense he would exile her because despite having Bramblestar's face, she still didn't want him after all that time. I'm pretty sure it makes sense for him to be angry about that and retaliate, just like he did when they were alive. Just because he had feelings for her doesn't mean he's above hurting her, this was already a proven fact in the series. I'd be open more other possibilities, but I never see anyone with any actual real reasonings. Ones that make sense in the current canon. I do respect your opinions though, and I have a few of my own. Sol x Squirrelflight is a very out of the blue thing, like very. Sol showed no interest in romance when he was alive, and not just because he didn't have a mate. There was literally a she-cat peddling after him openly, named Speckle, who still defended him after he abandoned their group. She even points out that Sol wouldn't have been Ashfur's murderer because he's never willing to get his paws dirty. And that's true, he was never much of a fighter, manipulative and cowardly. Sol may hate the code, but so did a lot of villains in the series, he's not the only one with a vendetta against it.
Scourge is Squirrelflight's uncle, I highly doubt he'd be the imposter because it would make the whole Squirrel x Imposter scenes very creepy. Also, it can't be Sleekwhisker or Mapleshade either, the voice was male.
Darktail didn't have any interest in the code, he only cared about tearing down the clans to get his revenge on his father. He believed that his group should be built on "trust" and "family" his own man-made kin group, but it's obviously fake compared to real bonds of the clan cats. His morals were bad because he was raised that way with hatred, and he barely had any understanding of the warrior code in general, the only things he knew were from the stories his mother probably told him, the little he learned in the isolated clan of Sky, and the rest in an already shattering ShadowClan. He made no move or interest to implement the code or twist it to his liking while in control of ShadowClan if anything his way of doing things directly clashed with the Warrior Code.
I personally wouldn't mind the idea of Thistleclaw, but I doubt the Erins would risk using him again after the SH controversy and backlash. Thistleclaw isn't above being the romantic type, but the problem is is that he doesn't know Squirrelflight on a personal level as the imposter did. Not to mention, Thistleclaw despised the warrior code, Mapleshade as well, and they were part of the groups that wanted to tear it down for what it represented. Also, it would make no sense for Mapleshade or Thistleclaw not to know newer cats if it were them, both of them were responsible for manipulating new and fresh cats to recruit by making false bonds with them and luring them in. It's a tactic the DF cats did. And as of right now, neither Mapleshade or Thistleclaw have any cats alive they'd have personal vendettas with...Mapleshade hated Sandstorm and she's long gone, so is Spottedleaf. And why isn't Thistleclaw going for Mistystar and RiverClan? I mean she is Bluestar's kin, it almost makes me wish it actually were him too, so RiverClan could finally get more spotlight again.
Ashfur loved by his kin? Where was that shown, the only scene I remember was him with Hollyleaf. And even if he's loved by his kin, it doesn't change that he was loved when he was still alive by Ferncloud. Yet he still did those horrible things to Squirrelflight. In fact, he was quite popular in ThunderClan considering how angry every cat was about his death and was adamant about finding the killer. And Ashfur's death is not recent enough. Ashfur died, in Warriors time, ages ago, before at the end of POT. That's at least 3+ generations ago. And keep in mind Squirrelflight and Bramblestar are some of the oldest cats in the series now, and some of the few that even remember the old forest. Meaning from the time this is happening and back during Ashfur's death, it's a few generations, meaning several years. A recent death would be Darktail, not Ashfur. To put this into perspective, Firestar is Bristlefrost's great-great-grandfather, Crowfeather is her great-grandfather, and Lionblaze is her grandfather, and she's already an adult.
The problem with the imposter is that there's already a certain mold that was made pertaining to who it is. -They're a tom, because the voice that spoke with Shadowsight was male. -They know about TC's lake territories, along with older hunting grounds. -They're enamored with Squirrleflight but also willing to hurt her.
I find it hard to believe it's not Ashfur, but at the same time I don't think he's working alone tbh. The cat isn't necessarily in love with Squirrelflight. Probably just pretending to be so that he can use her to rule the Clan or so that nobody is suspicious. I saw a review on YouTube discussing about the prospect of it being none other than some ghost cat. I'll put the link under my next post but it's a very compelling theory. Ashfur is a StarClan cat and not a ghost cat. He is happy in his place there now. He wasn't in Omen Of The Stars but it is clear now that he is content and even friends with cats like Hollyleaf. Ashfur's death is recent as in he'd know who many of the cats are. Cinderheart, Lionblaze, Poppyfrost, etc. Also it's doubtful that he would want to harm Squirrelflight. I can think of a few cats now who could be ghost cats. Keep in mind the cat doesn't have to be in LOVE with Squirrelflight, just using her for his own devices.
The concept of ghost cats is new yet it isn't clear how much power they'd have over StarClan or the living. It seemed like very little from when Squirrelflight was in ghost cat form.
A quick honorable mention would me any tom in The Sisters. One of the toms could've died and it's clear that they had a connection to the ghost cats. But according to the Erins this is the return of a "very controversial character". People like to instantly jump to the Ashfur conclusion...but I disagree.
Darktail could easily realize he could use the code to harm the Clans. He didn't get to destroy them and take them over. He may try possessing Bramblestar so that he can do just that, using Squirrelflight as a guide without her knowing. He may have known little of the code but he would do a lot to harm any Clan. But he's not on my main list of characters, as he is relatively new. I would like to point out that he is probably a ghost cat, lingering around in an unknown place...
Sol would use the code. He would literally just do anything to destroy the Clans with it. If he were dead I have no doubt that he would be a wandering and lost ghost spirit. He would love to use the code against the Clans, as he hates it very much. But I don't know how controversial he is.
Scourge. Ah, yes, him. I don't see why he would have an interest in ThunderClan or destroying the Clans. I just wanted to mention him because now that we know about ghost cats it seems like this is probably the realm that he ended up in. Heck, I might make a post about that. But...wait! There is indeed a reason for this very long dead tom to want to do this to ThunderClan: Firestar and Tigerstar killed him. Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw are the son and daughter of cats he would definitely hate. While I don't think this is the case...I would love it if it was and it would be a good character to bring back!
Smoke. She is a cat who would do anything to destroy the Clans...and yet I don't know why she would've gone for ThunderClan cats and not WindClan. She wouldn't have known anyone there. And she's not quite controversial.
I can't think of any other cat who would be a ghost cat. But I'll work on it. For now here are my last two theories: cats who aren't ghosts but are definitely dead and in either StarClan or the Dark Forest.
4. Darkstripe- Not really the highest on the list but I would like to point out that he never faded. Not yet, anyway. He was a cat who wasn't controversial to the readers, per say, but to the cats in the Clans. He nearly killed a kit and went to join Tigerstar. I can see him hating ThunderClan, although he never had much of an obsession with the warrior code. He would have something against Brambleclaw because he betrayed Tigerstar, a cat Darkstripe clearly was loyal to. Not my main choice or even likely, though, since Darkstripe is shown to not be evil as much as just loyal to the wrong crowd. I don't see this bumbling tom plotting such an elaborate thing to destroy the Clans.
3. Onestar- Onestar is a controversial cat who is shown to go insane from time to time. He is low on this list too because, well, I don't know if he would put StarClan or the living Clans in such turmoil just to get them to follow the code. And the impostor is clearly using the code to cause trouble, not to actually get Clans to follow it.
2. Skystar- Before y'all say "He's a founding leader! How could he ever want to destroy any Clan!" I would like to remind everyone that he was a cat who was not only controversial, but a cat who only cared about SkyClan and himself. He didn't have patience for the other Clans and that would've dwindled even more after SkyClan was driven out. I can't see this restless spirit reconciling easily. Skystar was shown to be good at holding grudges. Even though he's a founding leader I don't think he would care about the other Clans as much as he does SkyClan. The one flaw in this is I don't know why he would choose Bramblestar over any other cat, especially since Bramblestar has been kind to SkyClan, especially since his son was the founding leader for the Clan. Yet I can see Skystar being savage enough to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the founding leaders are shown as some kind of more powerful entity compared to the rest of the StarClan cats. If a cat is working alone it is doing so with some kind of power. Somehow these ancient cats have been kept alive for ages and even StarClan cats are shocked by their presence. Many StarClan cats have never even seen the founding leaders before and nobody knows where they reside. I don't know why he would target Bramblestar and ThunderClan but he is controversial and probably has powers over StarClan. I dunno if he would forgive the other Clans for harming SkyClan.
1. Thistleclaw- The impostor doesn't have to be in love with Squirrelflight. Perhaps he just had prior knowledge from stalking Bramblestar for a while or even seeing him in the Dark Forest. Thistleclaw would've jumped at the chance to lead his old Clan and maybe even destroy the code. It just seems likely. And controversial? Heck yeah! A lot of people disapproved of this character for wanting to be with Spottedpaw and he has caused a lot of controversy in the series. He's a cat I would totally see having his place in the spotlight. Although I admit he has no powers over StarClan, maybe he isn't working alone. I don't know...but it seems like a good choice and one that would make sense.
But I have one more theory. One I'm not fully invested in. Not yet, anyway. Just a small "what if" thing. I don't see it being real but it's a concept. It would be nice but I no doubt that it ain't happening.
What if the cat is actually doing this due to grief? Maybe he knew some of these cats and misses them entirely. Maybe this is a cat who has suffered due to either the warrior code or the lack of cats following the code, in some way shape or form. This cat may be a tyrant, yet perhaps he was driven mad by grief long ago. Could there be a cat killed by some code-related thing who wants revenge? A cat who perhaps didn't end up joining StarClan but remained a ghost? Or maybe joined StarClan or the Dark Forest but was so driven with grief that he just turned insane? I don't know why he would wish to kill cats, so I truly think this isn't the case. But still...a side thought.
I am not sure if I am certain in any of these theories but I don't think the feline in question is Ashfur.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 7, 2020 23:00:47 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him.
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 7, 2020 23:19:24 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅ All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him. Agreed. And would Ashfur really give two mouse-tails about cats like Dovewing or Mothwing? I don't think so. And, yes, he was very calm in StarClan. Hollyleaf even told Squirrelflight that after some time what happened in their lifetime doesn't matter much when they're in StarClan. I think it's implied even that she had talked to Ashfur. And keep in mind that when Ashfur was angry he made it clear. He was rude and blunt and glared a lot whenever he was upset. He's not one to hide how he feels. In StarClan he was happy, which was something we hadn't seen since The New Prophecy. He's among dead Clanmates that he cared about as well. And I don't see Ashfur wanting to destroy the Clans.
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 7, 2020 23:27:04 GMT -5
Ashfur's a useful idiot. Many of the above posts are assuming the Imposter is working alone, but this does not seem to be the case. Shadowsight detected another dark presence at the Moonpool when he visited it alone despite the Imposter already inhabiting Brambleclaw's body. So at minimum, there are TWO phantasmal entities here, one inhabiting Brambleclaw and the other one holding position at the Moonpool. Note the Imposter's contradictions in that he both names Squirrelflight a codebreaker but avoids punishing her, this to me indicates he's getting marching orders from someone else.
And while I described Ashfur as a useful idiot, I also think that his reptilian cunning is being underestimated. This is the same guy who doublecrossed Hawkfrost, he can put up a mask if he needs to.
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 7, 2020 23:34:40 GMT -5
Ashfur's a useful idiot. Many of the above posts are assuming the Imposter is working alone, but this does not seem to be the case. Shadowsight detected another dark presence at the Moonpool when he visited it alone despite the Imposter already inhabiting Brambleclaw's body. So at minimum, there are TWO phantasmal entities here, one inhabiting Brambleclaw and the other one holding position at the Moonpool. Note the Imposter's contradictions in that he both names Squirrelflight a codebreaker but avoids punishing her, this to me indicates he's getting marching orders from someone else. And while I described Ashfur as a useful idiot, I also think that his reptilian cunning is being underestimated. This is the same guy who doublecrossed Hawkfrost, he can put up a mask if he needs to. I don't feel like Ashfur would've done some of the things, had he been the impostor. At little he's the one in control of the Moonpool. But I don't seem him doing that...And also he wouldn't do some of the things he's done.
And there's something about Hollyleaf trusting him that makes me think the two have talked about his feelings. I know Hollyleaf talked to Leafpool and worked things out. I don't see why he'd still hold a grudge.
The impostor would have some obsession with the code. Dovewing and Mothwing for sure wouldn't be on his list of targets. And I dunno why Crowfeather would be either.
Some people think it's Hollyleaf working with him. But I don't know. It could be both, and yet I don't see Hollyleaf wanting to hurt her Clan or allowing Ashfur to harm anyone she loves.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 8, 2020 4:10:38 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him. I feel like you guys are being way to trusting of him just because he's a StarClan cat. Also he literally held a grudge against Squirrelflight for moons and was willing to hurt her and her family over it. Ashfur isn't above being morally messed up, nor faking an act which he'e shown to be able to do. I don't think Ashfur entire villain character should be so easily dismissed just because he unrightfully got into StarClan... Also who ever the imposter is quite literally knows Squirrelflight on a personal level. His words toward her before exiling her was too personal to the point Bristlefrost even noticed the change in his voice.
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Heterosexual
Spinestar
Got The Ashfur Tattoo!
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Post by Spinestar on Mar 8, 2020 8:38:05 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him. He is OBVIOUSLY faking his calmness/behavior in StarClan, just like he faked his innocence towards not being the traitor inside ThunderClan who ripped a life from Firestar. He has a talent for faking. And actually, ALL the hints point towards him...especially the way he talks to Squirrelflight. He has wanted “that lying she-cat will be driven out of ThunderClan for good, and no other Clan will want her” (LS) after he planned to reveal the truth and she is interfering with his plans at the moment. He both loves and hates Squirrelflight, it makes sense for his behavior to be mercurial towards her. He was actually concerned for her well-being when he exiled her the first time, further confirming its him. And why else would Squirrelflight be the one to reveal the imposter’s identity? I don’t think Shadowsight can choose what/who his visions are about. Ashfur clearly sneaked his way into his head. And one StarClan warrior clearly knew all this was gonna happen...
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 8, 2020 11:10:14 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅ All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him. I feel like you guys are being way to trusting of him just because he's a StarClan cat. Also he literally held a grudge against Squirrelflight for moons and was willing to hurt her and her family over it. Ashfur isn't above being morally messed up, nor faking an act which he'e shown to be able to do. I don't think Ashfur entire villain character should be so easily dismissed just because he unrightfully got into StarClan... Also who ever the imposter is quite literally knows Squirrelflight on a personal level. His words toward her before exiling her was too personal to the point Bristlefrost even noticed the change in his voice. Not really. I'm just thinking of other possibilities besides Ashfur.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 8, 2020 11:21:32 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅ All that stuff Ashfur did was way back in the POT. If he isn't over his drama with Squirrelflight already, then that's crazy. As I said before, he was shown to be calm in Squirrelflight's Hope. If he's the impostor, we should have had at least some hints in there pointing to him. He's also not in a position of power, so it makes no sense he would exile her. Shadowsight had a couple visions in Lost Stars, one of them being the potential destruction of the Clans. I don't think he knows who Ashfur is, so he wouldn't have thought of him. He is OBVIOUSLY faking his calmness/behavior in StarClan, just like he faked his innocence towards not being the traitor inside ThunderClan who ripped a life from Firestar. He has a talent for faking. And actually, ALL the hints point towards him...especially the way he talks to Squirrelflight. He has wanted “that lying she-cat will be driven out of ThunderClan for good, and no other Clan will want her” (LS) after he planned to reveal the truth and she is interfering with his plans at the moment. He both loves and hates Squirrelflight, it makes sense for his behavior to be mercurial towards her. He was actually concerned for her well-being when he exiled her the first time, further confirming its him. And why else would Squirrelflight be the one to reveal the imposter’s identity? I don’t think Shadowsight can choose what/who his visions are about. Ashfur clearly sneaked his way into his head. And one StarClan warrior clearly knew all this was gonna happen... Is there any evidence that Ashfur's faking it? What about the evidence for him sneaking into Shadowsight's head? The impostor could have been pretending to care about her after her exile. After all...he's possessing her mate.
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 8, 2020 13:17:11 GMT -5
He is OBVIOUSLY faking his calmness/behavior in StarClan, just like he faked his innocence towards not being the traitor inside ThunderClan who ripped a life from Firestar. He has a talent for faking. And actually, ALL the hints point towards him...especially the way he talks to Squirrelflight. He has wanted “that lying she-cat will be driven out of ThunderClan for good, and no other Clan will want her” (LS) after he planned to reveal the truth and she is interfering with his plans at the moment. He both loves and hates Squirrelflight, it makes sense for his behavior to be mercurial towards her. He was actually concerned for her well-being when he exiled her the first time, further confirming its him. And why else would Squirrelflight be the one to reveal the imposter’s identity? I don’t think Shadowsight can choose what/who his visions are about. Ashfur clearly sneaked his way into his head. And one StarClan warrior clearly knew all this was gonna happen... Is there any evidence that Ashfur's faking it? What about the evidence for him sneaking into Shadowsight's head? The impostor could have been pretending to care about her after her exile. After all...he's possessing her mate. Agreed!
Besides, I'm sure whoever is possessing Bramblestar stalked him quite a while. Rootpaw noticed a "shadow hovering around Bramblestar" if I'm not mistaken before he was possessed. Whoever this cat is would also for some reason have an interest in Shadowsight and an obsession with the warrior code. Would Ashfur care that Mothwing doesn't have much faith in StarClan, or that Dovewing had kits with a ShadowClan cat? No! I don't see him giving to mousetails about that. Whoever the impostor is probably knows about Squirrelflight due to the time he spend spying on the Clans and plotting to control.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 8, 2020 14:34:08 GMT -5
Bramblestar was actually already acting odd before the Imposter gained full control of his body, and it's implied that this started at least as far back as Bramblestar interacting with Shadowpaw at a Gathering since that's the first instance of anyone noticing that anything is wrong. Shadowsight also hasn't heard the voice since.
Rootpaw notices something in the next chapter and ThunderClan is snapped at later on, just before Bramblestar collapses, which then leads to Squirrelflight listening to Shadowpaw's advice and the Imposter to fully possess the body after the real Bramblestar loses a life.
Honestly, regardless of who it is, I just hope the final fight with him won't be anti-climactic.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 8, 2020 15:49:37 GMT -5
Is there any evidence that Ashfur's faking it? What about the evidence for him sneaking into Shadowsight's head? The impostor could have been pretending to care about her after her exile. After all...he's possessing her mate. Agreed!
Besides, I'm sure whoever is possessing Bramblestar stalked him quite a while. Rootpaw noticed a "shadow hovering around Bramblestar" if I'm not mistaken before he was possessed. Whoever this cat is would also for some reason have an interest in Shadowsight and an obsession with the warrior code. Would Ashfur care that Mothwing doesn't have much faith in StarClan, or that Dovewing had kits with a ShadowClan cat? No! I don't see him giving to mousetails about that. Whoever the impostor is probably knows about Squirrelflight due to the time he spend spying on the Clans and plotting to control. That's what I recently thought. How else would the impostor know so much about the code and clan life? And right, Rootpaw did notice something around Bramblestar. And I think Shadowsight did, too, before the gathering. There was just something off with ThunderClan's leader.
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Post by Fernshiine on Mar 8, 2020 16:33:11 GMT -5
Agreed!
Besides, I'm sure whoever is possessing Bramblestar stalked him quite a while. Rootpaw noticed a "shadow hovering around Bramblestar" if I'm not mistaken before he was possessed. Whoever this cat is would also for some reason have an interest in Shadowsight and an obsession with the warrior code. Would Ashfur care that Mothwing doesn't have much faith in StarClan, or that Dovewing had kits with a ShadowClan cat? No! I don't see him giving to mousetails about that. Whoever the impostor is probably knows about Squirrelflight due to the time he spend spying on the Clans and plotting to control. That's what I recently thought. How else would the impostor know so much about the code and clan life? And right, Rootpaw did notice something around Bramblestar. And I think Shadowsight did, too, before the gathering. There was just something off with ThunderClan's leader. Yes! I love how the impostor was written. The Silent Thaw actually managed to give me chills due to how unsettling the atmosphere for the Clans was due to the impostor taking over. I truthfully love that feeling and I hope it continues on in the next book. It was eerie and epic.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 8, 2020 17:04:27 GMT -5
That's what I recently thought. How else would the impostor know so much about the code and clan life? And right, Rootpaw did notice something around Bramblestar. And I think Shadowsight did, too, before the gathering. There was just something off with ThunderClan's leader. Yes! I love how the impostor was written. The Silent Thaw actually managed to give me chills due to how unsettling the atmosphere for the Clans was due to the impostor taking over. I truthfully love that feeling and I hope it continues on in the next book. It was eerie and epic.Same. :3 I haven't been worried for these cats since I read TPB and TNP. lol
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Post by Brindlefern on Mar 9, 2020 4:37:16 GMT -5
Honestly idk why it's still a fact that there's a huge denial about Ashfur being the imposter. Because there has absolutely been, Nobody else, who's shown to be obsessive over Squirrelflight than him. Thistleclaw? He doesn't know her and loves Snowfur. The imposter playing as her mate to begin with has to be a factor here to make his personal remarks and behavior towards her work to begin with (There's simply faking it and then there's what the Imposter is doing). Darkstripe? He's obsessed with the old Tigerstar and you gotta remember that he is too pathetic to be doing something this big and dangerously evil in the first place. Scourge? Same case in that he does not know Squirrelflight to even be so personal towards her and I doubt he'd care for any sort of love in regards to kin. Skystar? Same Case. Does not know her so why should he care? Sol and Darktail are both weird options because as far as I'm concerned they don't give two shits about the code so them suddenly enforcing would be completely OOC. Not only that, not only the fact that there's a sheer obvious bias towards Squirrelflight of all cats shown, the Imposter hates Leafpool vocally and is notably bitter about The Three. And who else was intending to hurt the Three in some way? Not only that, with that he intended on getting her exiled, and with this higher power he got his wish. The guy's an opportunist to the extreme.
Everything regarding the behavior towards Squirrelflight is all the pieces needed to say it's Ashfur. I don't care what BS hand-wave they wrote for SqH. Literally nobody else in the clan has ever been obsessed with her in her life, and the culprits listed above have no reason to show such behavior as well tbh because just them being bad cats doesn't take into account of the DEEPER stuff that's obviously so transparent it's like looking through crystal clear glass.
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Post by Card against Humanity on Mar 9, 2020 11:41:30 GMT -5
Honestly idk why it's still a fact that there's a huge denial about Ashfur being the imposter. Because there has absolutely been, Nobody else, who's shown to be obsessive over Squirrelflight than him. Thisleclaw? He doesn't know her and loves Snowfur. The imposter playing as her mate to begin with has to be a factor here to make his personal remarks and behavior towards her work to begin with (There's simply faking it and then there's what the Imposter is doing). Darkstripe? He's obsessed with the old Tigerstar and you gotta remember that he is too pathetic to be doing something this big and dangerously evil in the first place. Scourge? Same case in that he does not know Squirrelflight to even be so personal towards her and I doubt he'd care for any sort of love in regards to kin. Skystar? Same Case. Does not know her so why should he care? Sol and Darktail are both weird options because as far as I'm concerned they don't give two shits about the code so them suddenly enforcing would be completely OOC. Not only that, not only the fact that there's a sheer obvious bias towards Squirrelflight of all cats shown, the Imposter hates Leafpool vocally and is notably bitter about The Three. And who else was intending to hurt the Three in some way? Not only that, with that he intended on getting her exiled, and with this higher power he got his wish. The guy's an opportunist to the extreme. Everything regarding the behavior towards Squirrelflight is all the pieces needed to say it's Ashfur. I don't care what BS hand-wavethey wrote for SqH. Literally nobody else in the clan has ever been obsessed with her in her life, and the culprits listed above have no reason to show such behavior as well tbh because just them being bad cats doesn't take into account of the DEEPER stuff that's obviously so transparent it's like looking through crystal clear glass. ^^^ also the erins are always either extremely predictable or pull stuff out of absolutely nowhere. if it's not ashfur there's no way to guess who it is
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Mar 9, 2020 12:27:19 GMT -5
It literally HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED that it's Ashfur. He's not even obsessed with her anymore. If it's him, Squirrelflight would have recognized his voice after the sudden change moments before she got exiled. As far as we know, it hasn't been confirmed. And what was written in Squirrelflight's Hope was anything but bs.
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