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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 8, 2019 20:35:40 GMT -5
Rainleaf doesn't want to debate and tbh neither do I, but since this fandom is generally a pretty young fandom I just want to say it's perfectly fine for adoptees to want to seek out and build a relationship with their birth parents, and it's fine for a birth mother who was pressured or coerced into giving up her children to want to build a relationship with them so long as she respects any and all boundaries the child sets. Lionblaze, Stonefur and Mistystar all clearly prefer their adoptive parents. Jayfeather loves his adoptive parents but is closer to Leafpool because he's spent so much time with her. Hollyleaf wanted nothing to do with her birth mother and later softened her stance. Stormfur and Feathertail adore their birth parents despite the minimal role Graystripe and Silverstream played on their lives. None of these are bad reactions to being adopted and while this series is far from perfect when it comes to handling adoption, I'm glad the series does offer such different outlooks and condemns none of them. what |
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Post by Brindlefern on Apr 8, 2019 20:37:17 GMT -5
Rainleaf doesn't want to debate and tbh neither do I, but since this fandom is generally a pretty young fandom I just want to say it's perfectly fine for adoptees to want to seek out and build a relationship with their birth parents, and it's fine for a birth mother who was pressured or coerced into giving up her children to want to build a relationship with them so long as she respects any and all boundaries the child sets. Lionblaze, Stonefur and Mistystar all clearly prefer their adoptive parents. Jayfeather loves his adoptive parents but is closer to Leafpool because he's spent so much time with her. Hollyleaf wanted nothing to do with her birth mother and later softened her stance. Stormfur and Feathertail adore their birth parents despite the minimal role Graystripe and Silverstream played on their lives. None of these are bad reactions to being adopted and while this series is far from perfect when it comes to handling adoption, I'm glad the series does offer such different outlooks and condemns none of them. what What do you mean "what"? The WC fandom's usually of kids and teens. There's adults in the fandom yeah, but they aren't the majority. |
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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 8, 2019 21:07:21 GMT -5
What do you mean "what"? The WC fandom's usually of kids and teens. There's adults in the fandom yeah, but they aren't the majority. I get that but I’m not sure why that poster prefaced their argument with that |
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Post by alphayamergo on Apr 8, 2019 21:18:03 GMT -5
What do you mean "what"? The WC fandom's usually of kids and teens. There's adults in the fandom yeah, but they aren't the majority. I get that but I’m not sure why that poster prefaced their argument with that With the attitudes towards adoption in fandom, I just wanted to let any adoptees out there that there's nothing wrong with wanting to meet their birth parents or having a relationship if they want to. A lot of the fandom behaves as if that's a betrayal of their adoptive parents so I thought they deserved reassurance if they're out there. |
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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 8, 2019 21:28:12 GMT -5
I get that but I’m not sure why that poster prefaced their argument with that With the attitudes towards adoption in fandom, I just wanted to let any adoptees out there that there's nothing wrong with wanting to meet their birth parents or having a relationship if they want to. A lot of the fandom behaves as if that's a betrayal of their adoptive parents so I thought they deserved reassurance if they're out there. That makes sense, sorry for taking it the wrong way. |
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Post by alphayamergo on Apr 8, 2019 21:32:32 GMT -5
With the attitudes towards adoption in fandom, I just wanted to let any adoptees out there that there's nothing wrong with wanting to meet their birth parents or having a relationship if they want to. A lot of the fandom behaves as if that's a betrayal of their adoptive parents so I thought they deserved reassurance if they're out there. That makes sense, sorry for taking it the wrong way. That's okay! I probably could have made it a bit clearer in the original post. |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2019 16:19:42 GMT -5
Bumping this up, because I'll be posting pictures of the bonus scene very soon.
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Post by lazybramble on Apr 9, 2019 16:27:16 GMT -5
Oh, thanks for this Mσтнƒℓιgнт.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 16:34:20 GMT -5
Leafpool's reasoning for giving up the kits doesn't make much sense. She lives in ThunderClan, for god's sake, half of the Clan has mixed blood or were kittypets and/or broke the code in some way. They'll welcome anything with open arms, especially with Firestar being leader. You know, Firestar? The cat who disobeyed leader's orders multiple times, fed a ShadowClan cat, covered up his friend's love affair, took in outsiders and left his Clan twice to save another? Second off, if she really needed to lie to prevent any war, embarrassment, tension...etc she could have pulled an Oakheart or Yellowfang. That would have dissolved any confusion, since they'd know about their relationship from the get-go. Absolutely none of the three looked like her, so that would have been easy. She did not have to pressure her sister into that position and with StarClan cats lying to her as well? Absolutely horrible. Leafpool's general negligence and recklessness is what started this whole mess in the beginning, but even still, despite all this being Leafpool's fault, I can agree Jayfeather and Lionblaze are being ridiculously petty as hell. Move on already, you kits. Wait, Leafpool never pressured her sister into taking the kits as hers. Yellowfang and Feathertail did that. When Squirrelflight told her no, Leafpool accepted that and was willing to find another solution to take the Three into ThunderClan. Leafpool is not as bad as you're making her out to be, c'mon. |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2019 16:52:28 GMT -5
They're up! A few might be a little blurry, so you may have to open a new tab to read them.
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Post by lazybramble on Apr 9, 2019 16:57:47 GMT -5
Nothing for me  |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2019 17:02:21 GMT -5
Nothing for me Wait, do you mean you can't see them at all? They show up just fine for me. |
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Post by lazybramble on Apr 9, 2019 17:03:21 GMT -5
Yes, i mean it. Don't now why. Maybe not enough right for pic viewing?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2019 17:04:15 GMT -5
Yes, i mean it. Don't now why. Maybe it's same reason why i cant create topics You need to be in the apprentice rank to create topics. No idea about photos, though. |
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Post by lazybramble on Apr 9, 2019 17:05:12 GMT -5
Yes, i mean it. Don't now why. Maybe it's same reason why i cant create topics You need to be in the apprentice rank to create topics. No idea about photos, though. I check now, kit enough. Can you upload on same filesharing? or send om message or e-mail? |
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Post by Haze on Apr 9, 2019 17:33:11 GMT -5
Nice left hand reveal, I will be waiting for the right one on the next book.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2019 17:35:01 GMT -5
You need to be in the apprentice rank to create topics. No idea about photos, though. I check now, kit enough. Can you upload on same filesharing? or send om message or e-mail? I just reuploaded the photos in better quality, so maybe it had to do with the pictures I posted the first time? |
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Post by lazybramble on Apr 9, 2019 17:42:44 GMT -5
Still nothing to see :'(
can send on zavjyal@gmail.com?
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Post by halogen on Apr 9, 2019 17:48:28 GMT -5
Leafpool's reasoning for giving up the kits doesn't make much sense. She lives in ThunderClan, for god's sake, half of the Clan has mixed blood or were kittypets and/or broke the code in some way. They'll welcome anything with open arms, especially with Firestar being leader. You know, Firestar? The cat who disobeyed leader's orders multiple times, fed a ShadowClan cat, covered up his friend's love affair, took in outsiders and left his Clan twice to save another? Second off, if she really needed to lie to prevent any war, embarrassment, tension...etc she could have pulled an Oakheart or Yellowfang. That would have dissolved any confusion, since they'd know about their relationship from the get-go. Absolutely none of the three looked like her, so that would have been easy. She did not have to pressure her sister into that position and with StarClan cats lying to her as well? Absolutely horrible. Leafpool's general negligence and recklessness is what started this whole mess in the beginning, but even still, despite all this being Leafpool's fault, I can agree Jayfeather and Lionblaze are being ridiculously petty as hell. Move on already, you kits. And this is why I think the series post first series should have taken place in a different time or different Clan. The tragic arc that they tried to make with the Power of Three and a lot of the other arcs (like the whole Eclipse battle) just end up feeling forced because they've made Firestar the most reasonable/diplomatic cat ever leader. And when there is believable drama we are not actually seeing it from the point of view of those affected but from ThunderClan looking down on them and knowing they are morally better. This is not to say that I wouldn't want any really good leaders to come into power just to keep up drama and negativity, just that if an author does do that they should change the plot lines accordingly rather than trying to keep the same plots even when they don't make sense or lose their meaning. |
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Post by Pixie on Apr 9, 2019 18:55:04 GMT -5
Reading the scene, it makes me lessen my contempt for Jayfeather. Though, it still doesn't excuse his behavior in LS! I also liked the ending a lot when Squirrelflight said this was how it should be and he had to bite back the purr.
Also, loving that Twigbranch content! Found it so funny how Jayfeather was thinking about how they finally got rid of Twigbranch cluttering up the den, but there she is again.
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Post by kells on Apr 9, 2019 20:13:44 GMT -5
Leafpool's reasoning for giving up the kits doesn't make much sense. She lives in ThunderClan, for god's sake, half of the Clan has mixed blood or were kittypets and/or broke the code in some way. They'll welcome anything with open arms, especially with Firestar being leader. You know, Firestar? The cat who disobeyed leader's orders multiple times, fed a ShadowClan cat, covered up his friend's love affair, took in outsiders and left his Clan twice to save another? Second off, if she really needed to lie to prevent any war, embarrassment, tension...etc she could have pulled an Oakheart or Yellowfang. That would have dissolved any confusion, since they'd know about their relationship from the get-go. Absolutely none of the three looked like her, so that would have been easy. She did not have to pressure her sister into that position and with StarClan cats lying to her as well? Absolutely horrible. Leafpool's general negligence and recklessness is what started this whole mess in the beginning, but even still, despite all this being Leafpool's fault, I can agree Jayfeather and Lionblaze are being ridiculously petty as hell. Move on already, you kits. Wait, Leafpool never pressured her sister into taking the kits as hers. Yellowfang and Feathertail did that. When Squirrelflight told her no, Leafpool accepted that and was willing to find another solution to take the Three into ThunderClan. Leafpool is not as bad as you're making her out to be, c'mon. Leafpool's not a terrible, irredeemable character, it's just the fact that she didn't try to make up for what she did. All that was ever noted from her since the big kits reveal was that she was sad about it. Also, when Leafpool spilled the beans about expecting kits, she begged Squirrelflight to help her because she "needed to be ThunderClan's medicine cat" even though anyone with a brain would know that that would doom TC plus Firestar would never exile her. And when StarClan hopped in on this, Leafpool also didn't stand with Squirrelflight's first decision, but instead just let StarClan lie and pressure her. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 20:28:22 GMT -5
Wait, Leafpool never pressured her sister into taking the kits as hers. Yellowfang and Feathertail did that. When Squirrelflight told her no, Leafpool accepted that and was willing to find another solution to take the Three into ThunderClan. Leafpool is not as bad as you're making her out to be, c'mon. Leafpool's not a terrible, irredeemable character, it's just the fact that she didn't try to make up for what she did. All that was ever noted from her since the big kits reveal was that she was sad about it. Also, when Leafpool spilled the beans about expecting kits, she begged Squirrelflight to help her because she "needed to be ThunderClan's medicine cat" even though anyone with a brain would know that that would doom TC plus Firestar would never exile her. And when StarClan hopped in on this, Leafpool also didn't stand with Squirrelflight's first decision, but instead just let StarClan lie and pressure her. I mean, what did you expect? Leafpool wasn't trained to be a warrior; she was trained to be a medicine cat, and she was clearly going through a state of sadness after what happened. Leafpool was patient with her kits and accepted that they hated her for what she did. She took the blame, and said not to be angry at Squirrelflight for lying to them. She told them that everything was her fault and not her sister's in TLH.
Yeah, but keep in mind that Squirrelflight has a mouth and she did end up saying no to her. Leafpool accepted that and begged to Yellowfang, not Squirrelflight, instead, which made Yellowfang and Feathertail pressure her sister into lying to the whole Clan. But like I said, Squirrelflight could have also told them no; it's just that she wanted to help her sister because she loved her.
She did need to be ThunderClan's medicine cat. Cinderpelt was gone, and who's to say Firestar wouldn't have done anything? You know how hostile Onestar has been since he became leader. It's quite possible he may do something to ThunderClan because Leafpool "made" Crowfeather betray his Clan, and she broke two codes. She's supposed to be the trusted medicine cat and what she did was a pretty big deal. You are supposed to trust medicine cats; a medicine cat breaking the code only makes everyone suspicious of other medicine cats. They expect nothing but loyalty and honesty from them, and Leafpool has been neither of those at that time when she was with Crowfeather. Firestar might not have had any choice if the Clans worked against her. If cats held grudges against Dovewing and Mapleshade, then it's highly possible that Leafpool would have been in big trouble. She wasn't going to take the risk of spilling the beans to her father. While Dovewing did get off pretty mild, some cats still got punished for it, like Yellowfang and Mapleshade. Bluestar had her own kits hate her for what she did, and it took them a long time to forgive her. Her own Clan was angry with her for a while when they found out the truth, but thankfully she was already dead when this happened. Who knows what would have happened to Bluestar if her whole Clan turned against her for her sins?
My point is, Leafpool did the right thing by lying to her Clan. It's both right and wrong: wrong for lying to her family and taking advantage of Squirrelflight, but she did it for her Clan. Multiple times she promised herself and Cinderpelt that she's staying loyal to ThunderClan for the rest of her life. She clearly moved on from Crowfeather, helped SkyClan and ShadowClan when they needed a medicine cat, and even stood up to leaders like Onestar and Rowanstar when they made stupid choices. What more can you ask from Leafpool? She made a stupid mistake. But she did try her best to earn everything back. And she's very mature and respected now, and it's clear that peace has been made between her and her kits.
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Post by kells on Apr 9, 2019 21:36:21 GMT -5
Leafpool's not a terrible, irredeemable character, it's just the fact that she didn't try to make up for what she did. All that was ever noted from her since the big kits reveal was that she was sad about it. Also, when Leafpool spilled the beans about expecting kits, she begged Squirrelflight to help her because she "needed to be ThunderClan's medicine cat" even though anyone with a brain would know that that would doom TC plus Firestar would never exile her. And when StarClan hopped in on this, Leafpool also didn't stand with Squirrelflight's first decision, but instead just let StarClan lie and pressure her. I mean, what did you expect? Leafpool wasn't trained to be a warrior; she was trained to be a medicine cat, and she was clearly going through a state of sadness after what happened. Leafpool was patient with her kits and accepted that they hated her for what she did. She took the blame, and said not to be angry at Squirrelflight for lying to them. She told them that everything was her fault and not her sister's in TLH.
Yeah, but keep in mind that Squirrelflight has a mouth and she did end up saying no to her. Leafpool accepted that and begged to Yellowfang, not Squirrelflight, instead, which made Yellowfang and Feathertail pressure her sister into lying to the whole Clan. But like I said, Squirrelflight could have also told them no; it's just that she wanted to help her sister because she loved her.
She did need to be ThunderClan's medicine cat. Cinderpelt was gone, and who's to say Firestar wouldn't have done anything? You know how hostile Onestar has been since he became leader. It's quite possible he may do something to ThunderClan because Leafpool "made" Crowfeather betray his Clan, and she broke two codes. She's supposed to be the trusted medicine cat and what she did was a pretty big deal. You are supposed to trust medicine cats; a medicine cat breaking the code only makes everyone suspicious of other medicine cats. They expect nothing but loyalty and honesty from them, and Leafpool has been neither of those at that time when she was with Crowfeather. Firestar might not have had any choice if the Clans worked against her. If cats held grudges against Dovewing and Mapleshade, then it's highly possible that Leafpool would have been in big trouble. She wasn't going to take the risk of spilling the beans to her father. While Dovewing did get off pretty mild, some cats still got punished for it, like Yellowfang and Mapleshade. Bluestar had her own kits hate her for what she did, and it took them a long time to forgive her. Her own Clan was angry with her for a while when they found out the truth, but thankfully she was already dead when this happened. Who knows what would have happened to Bluestar if her whole Clan turned against her for her sins?
My point is, Leafpool did the right thing by lying to her Clan. It's both right and wrong: wrong for lying to her family and taking advantage of Squirrelflight, but she did it for her Clan. Multiple times she promised herself and Cinderpelt that she's staying loyal to ThunderClan for the rest of her life. She clearly moved on from Crowfeather, helped SkyClan and ShadowClan when they needed a medicine cat, and even stood up to leaders like Onestar and Rowanstar when they made stupid choices. What more can you ask from Leafpool? She made a stupid mistake. But she did try her best to earn everything back. And she's very mature and respected now, and it's clear that peace has been made between her and her kits.
It's hard to say no when two ethereal beings are pressuring you. Also, Leafpool still could have easily pretended the kits were found to avoid any issues with WindClan. Firestar has had three Clans against him for moons, unless Onestar kidnapped Leafpool himself, it would seem OOC as hell if Firestar had to get rid of her. I don't dislike Leafpool for the fact she made mistakes and handled them poorly, but how when things got hard, she didn't try her best, she just stayed sad for the rest of her life. Actions speak louder than words, after all. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 21:40:00 GMT -5
I mean, what did you expect? Leafpool wasn't trained to be a warrior; she was trained to be a medicine cat, and she was clearly going through a state of sadness after what happened. Leafpool was patient with her kits and accepted that they hated her for what she did. She took the blame, and said not to be angry at Squirrelflight for lying to them. She told them that everything was her fault and not her sister's in TLH.
Yeah, but keep in mind that Squirrelflight has a mouth and she did end up saying no to her. Leafpool accepted that and begged to Yellowfang, not Squirrelflight, instead, which made Yellowfang and Feathertail pressure her sister into lying to the whole Clan. But like I said, Squirrelflight could have also told them no; it's just that she wanted to help her sister because she loved her.
She did need to be ThunderClan's medicine cat. Cinderpelt was gone, and who's to say Firestar wouldn't have done anything? You know how hostile Onestar has been since he became leader. It's quite possible he may do something to ThunderClan because Leafpool "made" Crowfeather betray his Clan, and she broke two codes. She's supposed to be the trusted medicine cat and what she did was a pretty big deal. You are supposed to trust medicine cats; a medicine cat breaking the code only makes everyone suspicious of other medicine cats. They expect nothing but loyalty and honesty from them, and Leafpool has been neither of those at that time when she was with Crowfeather. Firestar might not have had any choice if the Clans worked against her. If cats held grudges against Dovewing and Mapleshade, then it's highly possible that Leafpool would have been in big trouble. She wasn't going to take the risk of spilling the beans to her father. While Dovewing did get off pretty mild, some cats still got punished for it, like Yellowfang and Mapleshade. Bluestar had her own kits hate her for what she did, and it took them a long time to forgive her. Her own Clan was angry with her for a while when they found out the truth, but thankfully she was already dead when this happened. Who knows what would have happened to Bluestar if her whole Clan turned against her for her sins?
My point is, Leafpool did the right thing by lying to her Clan. It's both right and wrong: wrong for lying to her family and taking advantage of Squirrelflight, but she did it for her Clan. Multiple times she promised herself and Cinderpelt that she's staying loyal to ThunderClan for the rest of her life. She clearly moved on from Crowfeather, helped SkyClan and ShadowClan when they needed a medicine cat, and even stood up to leaders like Onestar and Rowanstar when they made stupid choices. What more can you ask from Leafpool? She made a stupid mistake. But she did try her best to earn everything back. And she's very mature and respected now, and it's clear that peace has been made between her and her kits.
It's hard to say no when two ethereal beings are pressuring you. Also, Leafpool still could have easily pretended the kits were found to avoid any issues with WindClan. Firestar has had three Clans against him for moons, unless Onestar kidnapped Leafpool himself, it would seem OOC as hell if Firestar had to get rid of her. I don't dislike Leafpool for the fact she made mistakes and handled them poorly, but how when things got hard, she didn't try her best, she just stayed sad for the rest of her life. Actions speak louder than words, after all. We will have to agree to disagree. But it was a fun debate. I have not had a debate with anyone in a while. |
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Post by kells on Apr 9, 2019 21:42:39 GMT -5
It's hard to say no when two ethereal beings are pressuring you. Also, Leafpool still could have easily pretended the kits were found to avoid any issues with WindClan. Firestar has had three Clans against him for moons, unless Onestar kidnapped Leafpool himself, it would seem OOC as hell if Firestar had to get rid of her. I don't dislike Leafpool for the fact she made mistakes and handled them poorly, but how when things got hard, she didn't try her best, she just stayed sad for the rest of her life. Actions speak louder than words, after all. We will have to agree to disagree. But it was a fun debate. I have not had a debate with anyone in a while. Seconded, glad to know you had fun as well |
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Apr 10, 2019 21:15:47 GMT -5
I feel so bad for Jayfeather.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 10, 2019 22:32:51 GMT -5
reading the bonus scene made me sad. jayfeather annoyed me immensely in lost stars, but i've been a fan of him for so long that it's hard for me to stay mad at him for too long. he's always had a hard time connecting with other cats, and now he's lost his sister and his mother in the span of just a few years...he must be miserable i'm hoping this is the actual reason he seems more defensive and attached to starclan in lost stars, and it's not just a personality inconsistency I imagine it's hard for him to act like StarClan has abandoned them when Leafpool literally said she was going to be there to guide him :c |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 10, 2019 22:37:41 GMT -5
reading the bonus scene made me sad. jayfeather annoyed me immensely in lost stars, but i've been a fan of him for so long that it's hard for me to stay mad at him for too long. he's always had a hard time connecting with other cats, and now he's lost his sister and his mother in the span of just a few years...he must be miserable i'm hoping this is the actual reason he seems more defensive and attached to starclan in lost stars, and it's not just a personality inconsistency That's what I had gotten while I was reading, and I further believe this after I read the bonus scene the first time. Jayfeather even said that he felt abandoned by Leafpool twice, so for the Moonpool to be frozen over—thus blocking his connection to StarClan entirely—he must feel like he's been abandoned yet again. It doesn't excuse anything (especially ousting Mothwing), but it's still depressing to think about. This may also be why he of all cats was given the scene, to explain why he acted the way he did. |
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Post by techitisJ on Apr 11, 2019 0:06:07 GMT -5
Saw this on another thread earlier, but now I see the original here. Thank you so much for posting these! It is much appreciated.
I haven't read Warriors since Omen of the Stars finished, and this scene was one thing I thought the conclusion of the series was missing (well, when I envisioned the scene Leafpool was alive). After the series ended, I gave up on the idea of this scene ever happening. But it did, so many years later, and it's just as beautiful as I wanted it to be, on top of it being completely heartbreaking. I cried, which is probably the first time I've cried over something Warriors in a long time.
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