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Russetfur
Dec 21, 2018 11:26:32 GMT -5
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Post by Moonblazer on Dec 21, 2018 11:26:32 GMT -5
Wasn't Rowanclaw apart of the patrol who just watched Berrykit? No, I don’t believe he was
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Russetfur
Dec 21, 2018 11:26:38 GMT -5
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Dec 21, 2018 11:26:38 GMT -5
Wasn't Rowanclaw apart of the patrol who just watched Berrykit? He wasn't. He appeared on a different patrol in the book, though. It was only Oakfur and Cedarheart who were with Russetfur during that scene.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 21, 2018 11:27:27 GMT -5
Wasn't Rowanclaw apart of the patrol who just watched Berrykit? Nope, it was just Oakfur and Cedarheart. He invaded Thunderclan territory later with Russetfur, that might be what you're thinking of.
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Post by halogen on Dec 21, 2018 11:52:36 GMT -5
They were having a scuffle over border territory that had been in dispute for a while. This is not the same thing as an invasion deep into territory like Windclan tried in the Power of Three or Shadowclan in The New Prophecy. By your logic, Firestar would have been entirely justified in biting out her throat when she invaded after the badger attack, which was a far dirtier move. It's true that the badger attack invasion was way worse than what Firestar did and Russetfur didn't have a right to kill Firestar at all. Though it wasn't just a "scuffle over border territory that had been in dispute" - Firestar gave the territory to ShadowClan willingly, ShadowClan had it for years without being disputed, and then all of the sudden the same leader attacked them. And there is a difference between killing a leader and just any cat - as mentioned above killing a leader would end the battle and since leaders have nine lives it's likely that no matter what you do to a leader they will just eventually lose all their lives to old age anyway (If you think about it, Firestar had an abnormally unlucky rate of dying, like once every three books or so, so that he would lose his last life when he did). On the other hand, the territory was pretty useless with little prey anyway, so even if Firestar's actions were uncalled for it especially wasn't worth that sort of response. So Russetfur killing Firestar was still horrible and the actions. ShadowClan in Sunset were still worse, but it's too kind to call it just a scuffle over disputed border territory.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Dec 21, 2018 19:31:40 GMT -5
The code states not to kill to win your battles. I don't care if Firestar had more lives, it's still wrong. For all they knew, it could have been his last life.
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Post by halogen on Dec 21, 2018 22:42:34 GMT -5
I said that I completely agreed that it was wrong, just that I feel vectoring34 was characterizing it as even more wrong than it was.
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Russetfur
Dec 22, 2018 1:48:06 GMT -5
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Dec 22, 2018 1:48:06 GMT -5
I said that I completely agreed that it was wrong, just that I feel vectoring34 was characterizing it as even more wrong than it was. My post was more general than a swipe at you. Plus I've seen the whole argument with Lionblaze, Russetfur, and Firestar before.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 22, 2018 13:19:06 GMT -5
There's some things I don't understand.... Russetfur wasn't the only cat that watched Berrykit from the other side of the border...Oakfur and Cedarheart were there too. And they weren't wrong, they were abiding by the code, harsh, but it's true, even if you don't morally agree. It's not like they just up and left him completely, they at least waited until TC patrol showed up. Even if they did help Berrykit, they can't exactly do anything, they have no knowledge on fox traps, and just avoid it all together. And honestly TC should have kept a better eye on a kit, I like Berrynose, but I don't hate Russetfur for that scene, there's been much worse in the series. And when she was fighting Firestar, not only was she old as heck, but she was defending her territory from invading ThunderClan cats...?? Honestly, that entire fight was pointless, and Firestar's fault for listening to an apprentice, jeez. Yes, Oakfur and Cedarheart are also pretty awful, what's your point? I'm not sure what kind of argument is made by bringing it up. All three of them were bad, it's not like anyone's lining up to defend those two. They were having a scuffle over border territory that had been in dispute for a while. This is not the same thing as an invasion deep into territory like Windclan tried in the Power of Three or Shadowclan in The New Prophecy. By your logic, Firestar would have been entirely justified in biting out her throat when she invaded after the badger attack, which was a far dirtier move. You actually think Firestar of all cats would do that though...?? This is Firestar we're talking about. And Russetclaw is a ShadowClan cat that's been through the grit of tyrannical leaders in her time. So obviously ShadowClan and ThunderClan cats will have different views, different morals, and different ways of handling certain situations. Also, when you're fighting on defense, pretty sure they have every right to fight how they did, especially when TC, again of all clans lol, is invading their rightful territory. I'm honestly surprised Firestar was losing to an elder to be honest...Especially one that wasn't even in the right mind arguable and died just from being pulled off of Firestar. The thing is, again, even if they did try to help Berrykit, they don't have any knowledge on those traps, they literally said they avoid them altogether. So obviously they're going to be cautious of it, yeah it's very morally messed up by the reader's POV, but at the same time, it's pretty obvious where they're coming from. Also, one rule isn't more important than the next, so it's not taken over the other either way, rules don't cancel one another out, but this just shows again that the Warrior Code is flawed. They weren't taking enjoyment in watching, they couldn't exactly help either, I'm not sure what people wanted them to do here? Especially considering, again, TC should have been keeping a better eye on him.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 22, 2018 13:28:47 GMT -5
Also, the full code is as followed:
"An honorable warrior does not need to kill other cats to win their battles unless they are outside the warrior code or if it is necessary for self-defense."
And last I checked, ShadowClan was on the defensive in that battle, it was ThunderClan that were invading. Honestly, this whole debate is quite interesting because it feels like ShadowClan cats like to follow the warrior code to a literal T, but it's rather ironic considering they've had more bloodthirsty code breaking leaders than any other clan so far...
And if we're getting technical, the only cats that have actually apparently broken this code are Brokenstar, Hawkheart, Tigerstar, Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Clawface.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 22, 2018 14:41:12 GMT -5
Yes, Oakfur and Cedarheart are also pretty awful, what's your point? I'm not sure what kind of argument is made by bringing it up. All three of them were bad, it's not like anyone's lining up to defend those two. They were having a scuffle over border territory that had been in dispute for a while. This is not the same thing as an invasion deep into territory like Windclan tried in the Power of Three or Shadowclan in The New Prophecy. By your logic, Firestar would have been entirely justified in biting out her throat when she invaded after the badger attack, which was a far dirtier move. You actually think Firestar of all cats would do that though...?? This is Firestar we're talking about. And Russetclaw is a ShadowClan cat that's been through the grit of tyrannical leaders in her time. So obviously ShadowClan and ThunderClan cats will have different views, different morals, and different ways of handling certain situations. Also, when you're fighting on defense, pretty sure they have every right to fight how they did, especially when TC, again of all clans lol, is invading their rightful territory. I'm honestly surprised Firestar was losing to an elder to be honest...Especially one that wasn't even in the right mind arguable and died just from being pulled off of Firestar. The thing is, again, even if they did try to help Berrykit, they don't have any knowledge on those traps, they literally said they avoid them altogether. So obviously they're going to be cautious of it, yeah it's very morally messed up by the reader's POV, but at the same time, it's pretty obvious where they're coming from. Also, one rule isn't more important than the next, so it's not taken over the other either way, rules don't cancel one another out, but this just shows again that the Warrior Code is flawed. They weren't taking enjoyment in watching, they couldn't exactly help either, I'm not sure what people wanted them to do here? Especially considering, again, TC should have been keeping a better eye on him. I don't think Firestar would, probably because he knows that murdering someone over a border fight is beyond excessive. It would only be justifiable in case of a camp invasion, and even then it's not something taken lightly. Russetfur being under tyrannical leaders doesn't mean much when a lot of it is self inflicted. She supported all of them, so most of it's really her own fault that she sided with them. Fighting over a border is not the same thing as fighting in self defense. Fighting in self defense is stuff like when Shadowclan raids Thunderclan's very camp under Brokenstar or when Windclan and Riverclan were trying to drive Thunderclan away from the lake in the Power of Three. That's a case where there's a legitimate danger. The border fight with Russetfur and Firestar, however, was over a piece of prey poor territory that was nigh meaningless. Killing over such a thing is worthless. If it was a matter of caution, then Russetfur could have just said so. Instead she makes snide comments about him not being clanborn and it's made abundantly clear that she's not doing it because of that rather than fear of being hurt. If they really couldn't help him, why not just move on with their patrol and say "not my problem" instead of sitting there creepily staring at a kit screaming in pain? If they had moved on with their patrol it'd be reprehensible but understandable, instead she just stands there without a hint of expression like she's a sociopath. Rules don't cancel each other out, no, but it's made very clear that escorting to another clan's camp is nothing special. It's sanctioned by leaders multiple times and always happens peacefully. If they weren't taking enjoyment watching, why were they just standing there? He's holding up their patrol and there's no logical reason to stand there if they can't help him. Even if they didn't know how to help(and this is very sketchy to me since just biting his tail off is not an idea that takes a genius to be implemented), standing around making smug comments instead of getting on with their patrol puts them in a horrible light. Also, blaming a kit while he's suffering and dying is quite the massive stretch to avoid putting any kind of moral weight on Russetfur.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Dec 22, 2018 15:39:25 GMT -5
Also, the full code is as followed: "An honorable warrior does not need to kill other cats to win their battles unless they are outside the warrior code or if it is necessary for self-defense." And last I checked, ShadowClan was on the defensive in that battle, it was ThunderClan that were invading. Honestly, this whole debate is quite interesting because it feels like ShadowClan cats like to follow the warrior code to a literal T, but it's rather ironic considering they've had more bloodthirsty code breaking leaders than any other clan so far... And if we're getting technical, the only cats that have actually apparently broken this code are Brokenstar, Hawkheart, Tigerstar, Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Clawface. Actually, if you want to argue that, Lionblaze is in the clear as he was trying to save Firestar and wasn't intentionally trying to kill Russetfur. Russetfur is out of the code because she was intentionally trying to kill Firestar when he wasn't trying to kill her. I don't know why people try to twist the code for trash like Russetfur.
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Post by なんで私 on Dec 22, 2018 17:29:09 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings on this girl
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Post by kells on Dec 22, 2018 18:21:23 GMT -5
Her character is actually rather inconsistent. I loved her and Boulder in Yellowfang's Secret. They were lawless rogues who admired ShadowClan for their honor in battle. including the code against killing in cold blood. it was because of that reason they joined the Clan to begin with. After that, her personality does a complete 180 where she watched Berrykit in the trap, and took one of Firestar's lives.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 23, 2018 5:48:44 GMT -5
Also, the full code is as followed: "An honorable warrior does not need to kill other cats to win their battles unless they are outside the warrior code or if it is necessary for self-defense." And last I checked, ShadowClan was on the defensive in that battle, it was ThunderClan that were invading. Honestly, this whole debate is quite interesting because it feels like ShadowClan cats like to follow the warrior code to a literal T, but it's rather ironic considering they've had more bloodthirsty code breaking leaders than any other clan so far... And if we're getting technical, the only cats that have actually apparently broken this code are Brokenstar, Hawkheart, Tigerstar, Hollyleaf, Lionblaze, and Clawface. Actually, if you want to argue that, Lionblaze is in the clear as he was trying to save Firestar and wasn't intentionally trying to kill Russetfur. Russetfur is out of the code because she was intentionally trying to kill Firestar when he wasn't trying to kill her. I don't know why people try to twist the code for trash like Russetfur. Russetfur, like the rest of her clan, was defending their territory, they were on defense, from TC cats that were invading. Yes, Lionblaze was trying to save Firestar, but it doesn't change that his actions ended in her death. Russetfur wasn't outside the code in defending her own territory from invaders, and she was STILL a clan cat when she died.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 23, 2018 5:59:01 GMT -5
You actually think Firestar of all cats would do that though...?? This is Firestar we're talking about. And Russetclaw is a ShadowClan cat that's been through the grit of tyrannical leaders in her time. So obviously ShadowClan and ThunderClan cats will have different views, different morals, and different ways of handling certain situations. Also, when you're fighting on defense, pretty sure they have every right to fight how they did, especially when TC, again of all clans lol, is invading their rightful territory. I'm honestly surprised Firestar was losing to an elder to be honest...Especially one that wasn't even in the right mind arguable and died just from being pulled off of Firestar. The thing is, again, even if they did try to help Berrykit, they don't have any knowledge on those traps, they literally said they avoid them altogether. So obviously they're going to be cautious of it, yeah it's very morally messed up by the reader's POV, but at the same time, it's pretty obvious where they're coming from. Also, one rule isn't more important than the next, so it's not taken over the other either way, rules don't cancel one another out, but this just shows again that the Warrior Code is flawed. They weren't taking enjoyment in watching, they couldn't exactly help either, I'm not sure what people wanted them to do here? Especially considering, again, TC should have been keeping a better eye on him. I don't think Firestar would, probably because he knows that murdering someone over a border fight is beyond excessive. It would only be justifiable in case of a camp invasion, and even then it's not something taken lightly. Russetfur being under tyrannical leaders doesn't mean much when a lot of it is self inflicted. She supported all of them, so most of it's really her own fault that she sided with them. Fighting over a border is not the same thing as fighting in self defense. Fighting in self defense is stuff like when Shadowclan raids Thunderclan's very camp under Brokenstar or when Windclan and Riverclan were trying to drive Thunderclan away from the lake in the Power of Three. That's a case where there's a legitimate danger. The border fight with Russetfur and Firestar, however, was over a piece of prey poor territory that was nigh meaningless. Killing over such a thing is worthless. If it was a matter of caution, then Russetfur could have just said so. Instead she makes snide comments about him not being clanborn and it's made abundantly clear that she's not doing it because of that rather than fear of being hurt. If they really couldn't help him, why not just move on with their patrol and say "not my problem" instead of sitting there creepily staring at a kit screaming in pain? If they had moved on with their patrol it'd be reprehensible but understandable, instead she just stands there without a hint of expression like she's a sociopath. Rules don't cancel each other out, no, but it's made very clear that escorting to another clan's camp is nothing special. It's sanctioned by leaders multiple times and always happens peacefully. If they weren't taking enjoyment watching, why were they just standing there? He's holding up their patrol and there's no logical reason to stand there if they can't help him. Even if they didn't know how to help(and this is very sketchy to me since just biting his tail off is not an idea that takes a genius to be implemented), standing around making smug comments instead of getting on with their patrol puts them in a horrible light. Also, blaming a kit while he's suffering and dying is quite the massive stretch to avoid putting any kind of moral weight on Russetfur. So it's excusable for her to follow the code of the leader's word is law under other tyrannical leaders, but not in the case where TC invaded their territory and she was fighting under the command of her current leader, Blackstar? Especially considering it was both her and Rowanclaw fighting by Blackstar's side in that battle? Also, she's not wrong, Berrynose isn't clanborn, and at the time, wasn't actually a fully-fledged clan cat either. That was kinda the whole point of Daisy character arc, and how Cloudtail was trying to convince her to stay because TC needed new kits, while also being oblivious to her feelings for him. Also, imo, leaving him there, would have been much worse than staying there? If a fox had come in their absence and killed Berrynose, I know for a fact more people would call Russetfur and her patrol outright monsters and blame them for his death. But that's not what happened, instead, they stayed, and waited for a patrol to get their kit they were supposed to be keeping an eye on in the first place. I'm trying to figure out if you're implying if it would have been better than they just abandoned him there all together, or not? The ones they were making snide comments toward, other than stating the obvious facts and truths, was toward TC's patrol, are you really that surprised? Especially considering ThunderClan and ShadowClan, of all clans, never had the best relationship, especially from the start of the series. And even then, do you really think it would have been the best idea for a bunch of ShadowClan cats, who were strangers to Berrynose at the time, to chew through the tail of a kitten on ThunderClan territory...?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 23, 2018 6:15:28 GMT -5
So I decided to re-read it, lol, honestly, compared to the rest of her patrol, who shared the same mindset, Russetfur barely said much. She only pointed out that ShadowClan doesn't associate with kittypets, and then talks about how they have enough sense to avoid the fox traps. Meanwhile, when Stormfur comes over to them and argues, it's Cedarheart and Oakclaw that verbally rip into him about him being a deserter and also Half-Clan, and also repeating how they don't do the whole kittypet spiel, etc.
Russetfur herself used to be a rogue, not a kittypet, and honestly, there are obvious differences between rogues, kittypets, and loners even. They're not the same, nor are they categorized as such, they're just cats outside the clan.
Something else that's pretty interesting, when Russetfur, Oakclaw, Cedarheart and Rowanclaw take a patch of territory and challenge ThudnerClan, Firestar's patrol shows up with reinforcements. And the first thing Firestar does is literally battle screech before attacking Russetfur and biting into her throat. It's also noted that when she retreats she has blood around her throat, oh the irony...
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Dec 23, 2018 8:45:40 GMT -5
Just because she was defending territory doesn't mean she can kill whoever she wants. It's still wrong. If we want to use that logic, then Lionblaze was justified in almoat killing Crowfeather, right? Because he was defending his Clan and territory, right? Wrong.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 24, 2018 17:51:13 GMT -5
Just because she was defending territory doesn't mean she can kill whoever she wants. It's still wrong. If we want to use that logic, then Lionblaze was justified in almoat killing Crowfeather, right? Because he was defending his Clan and territory, right? Wrong. It's ironic you use that example, considering people HAVE defended Lionblaze over that situation. But imo I don't think it's comparable considering Crowfeather isn't a leader for one, and two, he technically went out of his way to isolate Heathertail during that fight and forced her to talk. While Crowfeather, upon finding him, demanded to know what he did, during that situation, they weren't even among all the fighting and mess going on around them. There have been cases where cats have died in scuffles or all-out battles, for example back in WindClan civil war. This all really comes down to morals, and obviously, the clans have different levels of morals in what they find morally right or not. It's not black and white as some of you may think.
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Post by vectoring34 on Dec 24, 2018 19:10:12 GMT -5
Just because she was defending territory doesn't mean she can kill whoever she wants. It's still wrong. If we want to use that logic, then Lionblaze was justified in almoat killing Crowfeather, right? Because he was defending his Clan and territory, right? Wrong. It's ironic you use that example, considering people HAVE defended Lionblaze over that situation. But imo I don't think it's comparable considering Crowfeather isn't a leader for one, and two, he technically went out of his way to isolate Heathertail during that fight and forced her to talk. While Crowfeather, upon finding him, demanded to know what he did, during that situation, they weren't even among all the fighting and mess going on around them. There have been cases where cats have died in scuffles or all-out battles, for example back in WindClan civil war. This all really comes down to morals, and obviously, the clans have different levels of morals in what they find morally right or not. It's not black and white as some of you may think. Is murder=bad really that gray of a topic? For the record, while Lionpaw attacking Crowfeather so brutally is not a good thing, this was during an attack to the heart of their camp with intent to drive them off the lake. There’s an actual case for self defense present unlike Russetfur choosing to die on a hill of prey poor border territory that’s useless to all involved.
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Post by scint on Dec 24, 2018 22:18:34 GMT -5
I dislike her, but I can see both sides to the Berrykit/Firestar thing as well.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Dec 24, 2018 22:19:41 GMT -5
It shouldn't matter if Firestar is a leader, as for all ShadowClan could know, that's Firestar's last life. That's it for him if it is. I don't like people thinking that just because a leader has nine lives, they're more expendable when a change in leadership could drastically change things. They are as equally valued as their warriors. Their nine lives balance out the fact that they are a leader, because people will gun for a leader to lower morale. In the end, it's still wrong for Russetfur to do what she did. She intentionally killed Firestar, while her death was an accident. She broke the code, as her life wasn't in danger, just a scrap of bad land. It wasn't self-defense.
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Post by gonxkillua on Dec 25, 2018 1:26:56 GMT -5
I dont like becuse of howv she didnt help.Berrykit its made worst when its reveled she was a kittypet herself
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 8:25:31 GMT -5
i thought she was a rogue?? She used to be.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 25, 2018 8:54:29 GMT -5
It's ironic you use that example, considering people HAVE defended Lionblaze over that situation. But imo I don't think it's comparable considering Crowfeather isn't a leader for one, and two, he technically went out of his way to isolate Heathertail during that fight and forced her to talk. While Crowfeather, upon finding him, demanded to know what he did, during that situation, they weren't even among all the fighting and mess going on around them. There have been cases where cats have died in scuffles or all-out battles, for example back in WindClan civil war. This all really comes down to morals, and obviously, the clans have different levels of morals in what they find morally right or not. It's not black and white as some of you may think. Is murder=bad really that gray of a topic? For the record, while Lionpaw attacking Crowfeather so brutally is not a good thing, this was during an attack to the heart of their camp with intent to drive them off the lake. There’s an actual case for self defense present unlike Russetfur choosing to die on a hill of prey poor border territory that’s useless to all involved. If you want to be more technical about it, they weren't even in the camp when that situation happened, also Firestar sent out several patrols into the territory to make sure WindClan was gone. They were invading cats, that did attack their camp, yes, but the situation with Lionblaze did not happen in the said camp, and happened on the outer territory. Which, imo, is no different than ShadowClan, and how they were defending their own territory against invading ThunderClan cats. The value of the said territory doesn't change the fact of which side is fighting on defense or not. And yes, murder is a gray topic, that's why the court system exist irl. Take Hollyleaf for example, I've seen both sides of the argument about whether her actions to kill Ashfur were justifiable or not. Especially when it was premeditated, she went out of her way, planned his death, and killed him in cold blood. Was Ashfur threatening to tell everyone the truth about their lineage to all of the clans? Yes, but that wasn't enough to warrant outright murdering him, and blind sighting him no less. Did he previously threaten their lives before? Yes, but Hollyleaf killing him wasn't even in response to that, but more so to him potentially spilling their family secrets. Was Hollyleaf justifiable in killing Ashfur, was it really her call to make, or should they have abided by the warrior code and be punished accordingly? These are all questions that can be clashed based on morals of one's own personal opinions. Even more so considering Hollyleaf herself tells the truth, making her killing Ashfur pointless, and then later threatens to kill her own mother, before running away and avoiding any type of consequence dished out from her clan. Like Leafpool, her punishment was self-brought, and she could have return back to face the music ages ago after her recovery, but she didn't, and only returned finally when a cat recognized her. And then upon her return, her actions were still covered up, as Brambleclaw out right lied for her, helping her practically get away with murder. Which imo, wasn't the best, considering she was racked with guilt over her actions in the first place, and it greatly affected her. So I'll ask again, was Hollyleaf justifiable in killing Ashfur? That's really down to your own personal opinion, and it's not as black and white as you think when it revolves around that certain circumstance. Just like how Russetfur taking one of Firestar's lives in defense of protecting her territory from invading cats isn't as black and white either. Or Lionblaze, going out of his way to attack Heathertail, forcing information from her, and then almost killing her mentor, whom is later confirmed to be his father, isn't as black and white, as well. A justifiable murder, by definition, is considered "a non-criminal homicide ruling, usually committed in self-defense or in defense of another, exists under law. A homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime." Also, you need to differentiate morals and ethics here, whereas ethics is simply what is deemed right and wrong, which in this case would be the warrior code, morals are more about your own personal opinions regarding what you deem is right and wrong. So whereas Russetfur isn't ethically wrong to defend her territory in such a way, you personally think it's morally wrong because you don't agree with it, which is perfectly fine.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 25, 2018 9:00:47 GMT -5
It shouldn't matter if Firestar is a leader, as for all ShadowClan could know, that's Firestar's last life. That's it for him if it is. I don't like people thinking that just because a leader has nine lives, they're more expendable when a change in leadership could drastically change things. They are as equally valued as their warriors. Their nine lives balance out the fact that they are a leader, because people will gun for a leader to lower morale. In the end, it's still wrong for Russetfur to do what she did. She intentionally killed Firestar, while her death was an accident. She broke the code, as her life wasn't in danger, just a scrap of bad land. It wasn't self-defense. They're given 9 lives for a reason, to serve their clan with each one, if he wanted to give his last life invading another clan's territory, wouldn't that be his problem? Cats die in battle, regardless. Also, calling the territory a scrap of bad land doesn't diminish the actions of ThunderClan who went out of their way to cross the border and try to steal territory that didn't belong to them in moons. It's no different than how Russetfur tried to steal territory from ThunderClan before and was justifiably beaten for it, Firestar literally went for her throat first thing upon arriving, and she luckily escaped from him before retreating.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 25, 2018 9:07:32 GMT -5
i thought she was a rogue?? A rogue, by warrior cats definition, is basically a stray, that isn't associated with the clans, nor kittypet life, not all the cats outside of the clan are painted under the same brush. Some are loners, some are rogues that detached from groups, some are just basic kittypets that live with humans. I personally don't understand why people always bring up Russetfur being a non-clan cat when it comes to the Berrykit case, especially considering Berrynose was a kittypet, while she herself was a rogue. And none of the clans are innocent when it comes to kittypet discrimination, especially when it's in the code itself, lol.
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Russetfur
Dec 25, 2018 9:23:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Moonblazer on Dec 25, 2018 9:23:31 GMT -5
i thought she was a rogue?? A rogue, by warrior cats definition, is basically a stray, that isn't associated with the clans, nor kittypet life, not all the cats outside of the clan are painted under the same brush. Some are loners, some are rogues that detached from groups, some are just basic kittypets that live with humans. I personally don't understand why people always bring up Russetfur being a non-clan cat when it comes to the Berrykit case, especially considering Berrynose was a kittypet, while she herself was a rogue. And none of the clans are innocent when it comes to kittypet discrimination, especially when it's in the code itself, lol. I thought Berrynose was a loner. I know they got fed sometimes by twolegs, but wasn’t Daisy never a kittypet? Maybe I forgot...
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Dec 25, 2018 9:31:32 GMT -5
A rogue, by warrior cats definition, is basically a stray, that isn't associated with the clans, nor kittypet life, not all the cats outside of the clan are painted under the same brush. Some are loners, some are rogues that detached from groups, some are just basic kittypets that live with humans. I personally don't understand why people always bring up Russetfur being a non-clan cat when it comes to the Berrykit case, especially considering Berrynose was a kittypet, while she herself was a rogue. And none of the clans are innocent when it comes to kittypet discrimination, especially when it's in the code itself, lol. I thought Berrynose was a loner. I know they got fed sometimes by twolegs, but wasn’t Daisy never a kittypet? Maybe I forgot... The whole premise of Daisy's character was basically her leaving the farm because the twolegs were going to take her kits. Although I guess narratively it's confusing in Daisy's case, because you could classify her as a loner, since she is an outdoor cat, but at the same time she was referred to and categorized as a kittypet by other clan cats on numerous occasions. Maybe she was simply considered one because she lived under the roof of a structure made by humans, even if she's actually a loner? At the same time, whether she is a loner or a kittypet, that's not exactly a rogue. And at the time the whole situation happened, she wasn't really part of ThunderClan yet either, she was on the fence about the whole thing. Also when offered to join the Clan, Smoky, declined and said something along the lines of being unable to imagine himself living in the wild.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2018 11:05:51 GMT -5
A rogue, by warrior cats definition, is basically a stray, that isn't associated with the clans, nor kittypet life, not all the cats outside of the clan are painted under the same brush. Some are loners, some are rogues that detached from groups, some are just basic kittypets that live with humans. I personally don't understand why people always bring up Russetfur being a non-clan cat when it comes to the Berrykit case, especially considering Berrynose was a kittypet, while she herself was a rogue. And none of the clans are innocent when it comes to kittypet discrimination, especially when it's in the code itself, lol. I thought Berrynose was a loner. I know they got fed sometimes by twolegs, but wasn’t Daisy never a kittypet? Maybe I forgot... He was a loner according to TC PoVs. Nearly done rereading Sunset
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