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Post by *Faith* on Aug 23, 2018 16:21:41 GMT -5
So let's see:
The book is post DS. They already took the oath. Doesn't explain why only Breezepelt was there in that scene though. At least they remembered the others for this book.
Only a moon had past since the battle. Cherryfall and Molewhisker are still apprentices. (They were announced at the same Gathering as Larkwing and Crouchfoot)
Lilyheart and Seedpaw are apprentices, while Snowbush, Dewnose and Ambermoon are still listed as kits.
Sedgewhisker and Icewing aren't listed as queens. Dawnpelt still is though.
I hope they show the flood. I'm still curious if any WC cats died. I wonder if we'll see Crowfeather get Fernstripe as an apprentice in the book. I'm also excited to see more of Featherpelt. And Heathertail is his former apprentice, so I would like to see them interact a little.
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 23, 2018 16:22:57 GMT -5
Since Whiskernose retired early because of injuries, I wonder if Rushtail did as well.
Hazeltail, Toadstep and Icecloud are already dead.
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 23, 2018 16:30:08 GMT -5
If Bramblestar can get away with never telling Squirrelflight about training in Hell and actively considering whether or not to kill her father then Crowfeather can get away with what he did. It would not surprise me at all if he and Nightcloud got back together. Well that's true lol, but Squirrelflight and Brambleclaw at least had a loving relationship to go back to; Crowfeather and Nightcloud never had that as far as we know so it doesn't make much sense to me for them to want to be together...given what we have so far I'm suspecting it will happen, but I'm hoping it doesn't.
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Post by Kibui on Aug 23, 2018 17:38:21 GMT -5
I hope they show the flood. I'm still curious if any WC cats died. I wonder if we'll see Crowfeather get Fernstripe as an apprentice in the book. I'm also excited to see more of Featherpelt. And Heathertail is his former apprentice, so I would like to see them interact a little. I might remember this wrong but wasn't WindClan not affected (or barely affected) by the flood because their high territory?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 23, 2018 17:39:52 GMT -5
No they were? Cause I remember in BrS it's noted how skinny they were getting, Squirrelflight patrol even caught some of them trespassing and chased them off. Heck, Crowfeather was one of the cats if I remember correctly?
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Aug 23, 2018 18:18:55 GMT -5
No they were? Cause I remember in BrS it's noted how skinny they were getting, Squirrelflight patrol even caught some of them trespassing and chased them off. Heck, Crowfeather was one of the cats if I remember correctly? Yeah, I think so, 'cause Bramblestar's patrol appeared later and they worked together to remove the log or something that was being used as a bridge for the WindClan cats. Hilariously, I'm pretty sure the WindClan patrol had the gall to stand in their territory and be butthurt that they were chased off territory that they were trespassing on...I can't remember if they said anything, but it was still funny that they had the nerve to look pissed.
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 23, 2018 18:20:21 GMT -5
I hope they show the flood. I'm still curious if any WC cats died. I wonder if we'll see Crowfeather get Fernstripe as an apprentice in the book. I'm also excited to see more of Featherpelt. And Heathertail is his former apprentice, so I would like to see them interact a little. I might remember this wrong but wasn't WindClan not affected (or barely affected) by the flood because their high territory? It's been a while since I've read BrS, but I believe they were. They were trespassing on TC and were quite skinny. Hootpaw mentioned something about how prey was hard to come by and the white birds were all they had. (I think they were Seagulls, but I don't remember now)
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 23, 2018 18:26:26 GMT -5
I might remember this wrong but wasn't WindClan not affected (or barely affected) by the flood because their high territory? It's been a while since I've read BrS, but I believe they were. They were trespassing on TC and were quite skinny. Hootpaw mentioned something about how prey was hard to come by and the white birds were all they had. (I think they were Seagulls, but I don't remember now) It was large white birds from the Sundrown Place iirc. So definitely Seagulls as you usually see those flying over oceans.
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Bisexual
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 23, 2018 19:10:19 GMT -5
Nightcloud is just as abusive... She literally unsheathed her claws, dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool, while Crowfeather defends himself ws a retort... yet I see no one attacking her for this... just wanted to point that out.. I'm not looking for a debate lol. Because apparently only Crowfeather is abusive and neglectful. I mean, that's the logic of a lot of people. Pretty sad people are trying to excuse Nightcloud clawing and dragging her mate away because of jealousy issues. If I did that to my boyfriend, I'd be given absolute hell for it. Yet no one bats an eye. Honestly pisses me off.
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Post by Smokyyy on Aug 23, 2018 22:07:52 GMT -5
Yessss
cant wait for my theories to be shot out of the sky
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Post by Smokyyy on Aug 23, 2018 22:31:20 GMT -5
Ok. In my opinion. That sample was amazing!
I'm happy that the Erins talked about Ash being his mother. Being it was never really stated.
Im hoping soo dearly for a Breezepelt redemption. And for Breeze and Crow to make up, bc unlike a lot of people, I like them a lot. The tunnel incident sounds interesting. The moments where it hinted at Crow and Night getting back together is ehh. I'm unsure about how I feel about that. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
Hoping for more HeatherxBreeze.
I had high hopes for this SE honestly, being is that I am of the small percentage of ppl who like Crow. I think my hopes are higher now
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 23, 2018 23:15:20 GMT -5
I'm happy that the Erins talked about Ash being his mother. Being it was never really stated. Ashfoot being Crowfeather's mother has been stated ever since TNP. This is just the first time it's been stated since that arc, and also the first time where it mentions Deadfoot being his father, even if it's not by name.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 24, 2018 8:32:25 GMT -5
No they were? Cause I remember in BrS it's noted how skinny they were getting, Squirrelflight patrol even caught some of them trespassing and chased them off. Heck, Crowfeather was one of the cats if I remember correctly? Yeah, I think so, 'cause Bramblestar's patrol appeared later and they worked together to remove the log or something that was being used as a bridge for the WindClan cats. Hilariously, I'm pretty sure the WindClan patrol had the gall to stand in their territory and be butthurt that they were chased off territory that they were trespassing on...I can't remember if they said anything, but it was still funny that they had the nerve to look pissed. That's actually true as well I think? It was, ironically, Crowfeather too, who was talking crap about his ex. lovers father, Firestar, and taunting ThunderClan for having kittypets on their patrol. While also telling them to stay on their side of the territory, I think once there was an incident involved them claiming clean water from another clan but I don't remember if that was WC or not. But yeah it's rather hypocritical on their part, especially when not long after that, they caught them trespassing. It was pretty satisfying reading about Squirrelflight giving a battlecry or something while chasing the cowards off, that she-cat is badass.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 24, 2018 8:48:14 GMT -5
Nightcloud is just as abusive... She literally unsheathed her claws, dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool, while Crowfeather defends himself ws a retort... yet I see no one attacking her for this... just wanted to point that out.. I'm not looking for a debate lol. Because apparently only Crowfeather is abusive and neglectful. I mean, that's the logic of a lot of people. Pretty sad people are trying to excuse Nightcloud clawing and dragging her mate away because of jealousy issues. If I did that to my boyfriend, I'd be given absolute hell for it. Yet no one bats an eye. Honestly pisses me off. So one incident, during a high tensions feud, suddenly makes Nightcloud as bad as her ex. Yes, let's ignore how Leafpool had to call out Crowfeather for watching his two sons beat the crap out of each other and not saying a single word. Or how it literally took a similar and worse incident, of one bashing the other's head and trying to kill him, for him to finally intervene?? Sorry but, no Nightcloud may not have handled situations right, but to claim she's abusive or just as bad as Crow, imo is nonsensical. Nightcloud, from what we know already, was the only one that was trying to make the relationship work. One incident of her dragging her mate from a she-cat that everyone in the entire forest knew he knocked up, isn't really the worse thing in the world. The last cat, and lol can't even stress that enough, the last cat he should even be near around that time was Leafpool, especially considering he threw her under the bus at the gathering not long before and claimed he had nothing to do with her. But then he's literally less than inches from her and talking about their past. The bigger irony was that he literally just proves, in that small conversation he has with Leafpool, that he's pretty much just being spiteful. Call Nightcloud jealous, sure, jealousy is a normal emotion, but Crow, on the other hand, was being downright spiteful, because of Leafpool choosing her clan over him. It wasn't even the first time either because there was a previous incident where he encourages his son, openly too, at a gathering, to hate cats with mixed blood, just to take a jab at Leafpool, who he knows has kittpet blood in her veins. WindClan knew Crow ran off, but they didn't know why, or with whom, most likely, and Nightcloud and he got together. It's obvious she tried to make it work, she thought Crow loved her, but in the end, he never loved her once. And obviously never loved their kid either, he outright verbally abuses his son, to the point that even the three, ironically, was glad that they had Bramblestar as a father over Crowfeather. Heck, there were even incidents where he just outright ignores Breezepelt, like he's not even there, he didn't even want to take his own kid with him to the mountains, all he cared about was seeing Feathertail's grave again. I don't know about you but seeing my father show more emotion over another she-cat from another clan that's dead, or another she-cat from another clan he had kits with, over my own biological mother, is messed up. Crowfeather even acknowledging his other kits over Breezepelt, more, before he even knew the truth, didn't help either. The only thing Nightcloud is guilty of is being a helicopter parent, and being jealous, and both are rightfully so. She became a helicopter parent cause Crowfeather was a crappy father and mate, and became jealous because Crowfeather used her, and their own kit, and never really loved them, or gave two mouse tails about them, he only used them to seem loyal. Yet he wonders why she left him and ignores him as if she has to acknowledge his existence like he didn't even have the decency to do with her or their child????? ?????? Compared to Crowfeather, Nightcloud's actions are 10x minimal. Nightcloud didn't betray her clan, twice. Nightcloud didn't run off and get their rival clan's medicine cat pregnant. Nightcloud doesn't have three kits in another clan (two now). Nightcloud didn't neglect her child to the point they grew up and hated them with a passion. Nightcloud didn't openly encourage her son to hate mixed blooded cats at gatherings. Nightcloud didn't show more attention to their other clan cats over their own current clan's offspring. Nightcloud didn't berate and verbally abuse her son. Nightcloud didn't throw their ex under the bus, and not give a care in the world when her children were trying to murder one another. Nightcloud wasn't the catalyst that led her son into being easy prey for the Dark Forest to influence. And before you say, I'm getting heated, or calm down, I'm not, and I'm fine. I just find things like this baffling. That people think Nightcloud is the spawn of a demon or something, and trying to make her out to be just as bad, if not worse, than Crow, when she's not. And about 90% of the problems caused by this family literally falls on Crow not being able to keep his pants on. And the few things she does do, she's literally demonized as the crazy ex, when in canon she's actually a well-respected WindClan warrior that others admire, great fighting and hunting skills, and is well built apparently. I mean it's not her fault that she wanted a family one day, and thought Crow liked her, but he only thought she was hot, was superficial, and was only using her and their son the whole time. The same cat that internally agreed that their son should be murdered and then is ??? about why he ended up the way he did. Yeah, I wonder why, hmm.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 24, 2018 9:44:43 GMT -5
But you're doing the same with Crowfeather? Nightcloud is neglectful as well. She is just as bad as Crowfeather. All three are to blame and it is more baffling and frustrating that some of Crowfeather's actions suddenly become inexcusable for no reason. Other cats have literally done what he did and no one bats an eye vut supports it. Double standards at its finest.
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on Aug 24, 2018 9:50:08 GMT -5
How is Nightcloud neglectful? What other cats?
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 24, 2018 10:05:34 GMT -5
But you're doing the same with Crowfeather? Nightcloud is neglectful as well. She is just as bad as Crowfeather. All three are to blame and it is more baffling and frustrating that some of Crowfeather's actions suddenly become inexcusable for no reason. Other cats have literally done what he did and no one bats an eye vut supports it. Double standards at its finest. When exactly has Nightcloud ever been neglectful? This is contradictory if you’re calling her a helicopter parent and coddling. That is the exact opposite of neglect. She protected her child, she does not envoke the same hatred that Breeze has for Crowfeather, who is literally neglectful. If she was as neglectful as Crowfeather, Breezepelt would hate her in the same manner, right? Nobody is saying any action is inexcusable. It’s not. But Crowfeather should not get any excuses as well. Forget Nightcloud and Breezepelt. Crowfeather’s actions need to be called out. He gets 0 excuses no matter how bad Nightcloud might have been. His actions ARE inexcusable, and the anger is at him for them. The actions of Breezepelt and Nightcloud have 0 effect on how Crowfeather’s actions are inexcusable. And as for other cats? I agree, elaborate and I will explain why I do not tolerate parental neglect from any cat, whether or not they are Crowfeather.
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Post by Jaysnow on Aug 24, 2018 10:13:35 GMT -5
I REALLY want to see these two scenes from Crowfeather’s pov:
• Jayfeather and his littermates telling him he’s their father •Hollyleaf revealing the truth at the Gathering
Please give us flashbacks of these Erins...please
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Post by Redwing on Aug 24, 2018 10:42:29 GMT -5
I love how a former background cat (Harespring/star) now gets a stoplight.
Oh, I still hate Nightcloud (since this is before AVoS)
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Post by Kibui on Aug 24, 2018 10:50:23 GMT -5
About the whole WindClan and BS's flood thing: I've just skimmed through the book and it's true that WindClan had trouble finding prey and that's why they chased seagulls but that was before the actual flood happened - when Hootpaw remarks that they need the birds the water was just a bit higher than usual and the wind was quite strong. When the actual storm happens (the one where ThunderClan had to evacuate its camp), Bramblestar remarks this: RiverClan has been completely flooded! he thought, every hair on his pelt rising in horror. WindClan should be okay, he added to himself as his gaze swept around to take in the moor. Their camp is pretty high up. His belly lurched when he turned to look out across ShadowClan territory. The flat area of pines was waterlogged, with only the top halves of the trees sticking up above the flood.
- page 135 So yes they did have trouble with the forerunners of the storm but it doesn't seem like their camp was affected by the rising water is what I'm getting at
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Bisexual
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 24, 2018 13:09:32 GMT -5
You can be neglectful by coddling and encouraging poor behavior. Nightcloud only ever got into Breezepelt once. She left the disciplinary actions to Crowfeather essentially making her the favorite parent and that's... Don't ever do that.
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Post by gonxkillua on Aug 24, 2018 13:16:35 GMT -5
I REALLY want to see these two scenes from Crowfeather’s pov: • Jayfeather and his littermates telling him he’s their father •Hollyleaf revealing the truth at the Gathering Please give us flashbacks of these Erins...please I want to read about his feelings over Hollyleaf's death from his Pov as well.
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Post by Jaysnow on Aug 24, 2018 13:20:35 GMT -5
I REALLY want to see these two scenes from Crowfeather’s pov: • Jayfeather and his littermates telling him he’s their father •Hollyleaf revealing the truth at the Gathering Please give us flashbacks of these Erins...please I want to read about his feelings over Hollyleaf's death from his Pov as well. Same
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 24, 2018 13:21:41 GMT -5
You can be neglectful by coddling and encouraging poor behavior. Nightcloud only ever got into Breezepelt once. She left the disciplinary actions to Crowfeather essentially making her the favorite parent and that's... Don't ever do that. When did it ever say once that she left it all to Crowfeather? She could have easily disciplined Breezepelt. And she has. In The Sight, when Thunderclan comes to help Windclan chase off the dogs, Breezepelt snaps that they don’t need Thunderclan’s help, but Nightcloud rebukes him and reminds him that it was Thunderclan’s help that prevented Heathertail from becoming injured. She’s not incapable of parenting. She was the only one actively doing parenting at that point. Maybe we’re not getting this because she’s a background character, and Crowfeather gets all the spotlight and so his words get to matter more, which sucks.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 24, 2018 13:25:36 GMT -5
You can be neglectful by coddling and encouraging poor behavior. Nightcloud only ever got into Breezepelt once. She left the disciplinary actions to Crowfeather essentially making her the favorite parent and that's... Don't ever do that. Your argument is nonsensical, no offense, but what are you trying to get at here? Neglect and coddling can't go in the same statement. To coddle means to treat in an indulgent or overprotective way. To neglect is the state or fact of being uncared for. Crowfeather neglected his son. In response to that, Nightcloud became a helicopter parent and coddled him. Coddling a child isn't inherently bad, because it's obvious it wasn't why Breezepelt turned out the way he did. He never blamed her, because she was trying to at least make up for how crappy of a father Crowfeather was, in her own position as a parent. You're making it seem like Nightcloud is the reason why Breezepelt turned to the Dark Forest, or that she had anything to do with that period?? When the blame was always obviously Crowfeather's fault. Breezepelt blamed him, Leafpool, and couldn't stand his half-siblings. Remember how Crowfeather, blatantly and openly encouraged his son to hate mixed blooded cats, hmm? Through the few times we've seen Nightcloud, before the incident at the gathering, we see her scold Breezepelt once for being ungrateful to Lionblaze, she's even seen comforting not just Breeze, but Lion as well after the incident. And graciously thanked Jay for saving her son. She wasn't leaving Crow to discipline him only, what proof do you even have of that?? Especially when she only wanted Crow to be more involved in his own sons life, again he didn't even want to bring him to the mountains, didn't even let him say goodbye to the others, rushed to get the mountains, took his irritation out on his son, and didn't give a crap about him in favor of mourning over a past dead lover??? All the while verbally abusing him or outright ignoring him in favor of other cats. I'm not saying it's bad to discipline a child, but there's a right way to do it, and a wrong way, and Crowfeather, unsurprisingly, did it the wrong way. And even after the secret got out, Night had to move into the position of DEFENDING her child. Because Crowfeather would cut him too short, and wouldn't have more faith in his own son. Even in the preview alone, when other cats were wishing death upon Breezepelt, but even they knew how wrong they were to say such things after they realized Crowfeather heard them. Crow even thought how wrong it was himself, and yet, despite that STILL agreed with them??? ???? "So I agreed with my other associates that my son should die, honestly how did my son end up the way he did, I know I neglected him, and we had a strained relationship, but it's totally all his mother's fault, she was loving him way too much."
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 24, 2018 14:44:06 GMT -5
Hm, I just thought of something. If Onestar made Harespring, who was a DF trainee, deputy to make a point, I wonder if Tigerheart is going to do something similar. Make one of Darktail's supporters in ShC deputy to make a point. As long as it's not Scorchfur, I'll be alright.
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#a3c5e6
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 24, 2018 15:15:13 GMT -5
Hm, I just thought of something. If Onestar made Harespring, who was a DF trainee, deputy to make a point, I wonder if Tigerheart is going to do something similar. Make one of Darktail's supporters in ShC deputy to make a point. As long as it's not Scorchfur, I'll be alright. With how much nepotism there is in the Clans, I wouldn't be surprised if he chose Juniperclaw as his deputy.
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Bisexual
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 24, 2018 17:38:35 GMT -5
I'm not even going to bother replying because my mind isn't going to change on this matter. It's frustrating people sympathize with a cat like Breeze or Night. That's the end on this thread for me for a bit.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 24, 2018 17:44:26 GMT -5
It's frustrating people constantly demonize a she-cat that barely did anything wrong in comparison, and only tried to raise her son since the father was too much of a coward. It's frustrating that people don't like others wanting a cat to be redeemed without the influence of his crappy father, and the Dark Forest, over his shoulders. It's frustrating that Crowfeather gets babied in the fandom despite him blatantly neglecting his son, breaking the code twice, used his wife for a better social status in his clan, never really owned up to any of his actions, and is still nothing but a hypocritical, bigot, xenophobic, rude character with no real redeeming qualities, but thinks he deserves deputy just because his parents were actually good cats.
But hey, what can you do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 19:03:46 GMT -5
Sigh.
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