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I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Aug 22, 2018 18:37:34 GMT -5
Also, Nightcloud ignoring Crowfeather's praise reminded me of that time Crowfeather didn't praise Breezepaw way back in Eclipse. Literally the first thing that came to mind when I read that! They have quite a few throwbacks here (like remembering Deadfoot and Ashfoot were Crowfeather's parents), and I wonder if that was intentional. It actually made me laugh, tbh, because of how offended he is lol
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 18:41:11 GMT -5
I don't think Crowfeather should be blamed for Breezepelt's actions. While Crowfeather wasn't a very good father, he certainly wasn't that bad to warrent what Breezepelt did. Breezepelt was an adult when he chose to make the choices he did. He was old enough to understand the consequences of his actions, and he didn't care. Just because someone has neglectful parents growing up doesn't excuse the poor choices they decide to make on their own as adults. Also, not to mention if all of Breezepelt's behavior is because of Crowfeather, then why didn't Breezepelt take his anger out on Crowfeather? I know it was mentioned in the books, but it was never acted on. I feel like if all of this was because Crowfeather neglected him as a child that Breezepelt would try to take his anger out on Crowfeather personally instead of targeting random cats who had nothing to do with the situation. Even in the final battle Breezepelt is more worried about getting revenge against Lionblaze who did nothing to him besides exist and be his half brother than he is Crowfeather. He doesn't even fight against his father when Crowfeather pulls him off Lionblaze, and then he runs away. Honestly I always got the interrpretation that Breezepelt acted out because he didn't like that Crowfeather was the three's father. As soon as he found that out, that's when he started acting out and they were already his target. He tries to kill Jayfeather, gloats over Hollyleaf's death, and then in TLH when Breeze tries to kill Lion, Ivy asks him if he really wants to fight for Brokenstar. Breeze says this isnt about Broken, but that the three should have never been born. Why would he feel so strongly about this and say this is his reasoning if it's really because of Crowfeather? Crowfeather didn't raise them so I know it isn't a jealousy thing. Also going back to what I said earlier, if it was about Crowfeather then why didn't Breezepelt confront him? All he says is that he thought his father hated him, but he never blames him or really says anything else and instead just runs away. I feel like Breezepelt should have tried to get his revenge on Crowfeather in that moment if all of it was because of him I agree with this. Even though Crowfeather's not a good dad, Breezepelt should take some blame for the bad things he's done.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Aug 22, 2018 18:42:26 GMT -5
I just wish we could all agree that both Nightcloud and Crowfeather are to blame for how Breezepelt turned out. It's how he was raised, but after he turned into an adult, he was then responsible for himself afterwards. Crowfeather not being around at first made Nightcloud think he'd NEVER want to come around, but we have seen in the earlier books that Crowfeather tried to be there for Breezepaw at least once, and Nightcloud physically did not LET HIM HELP or come near their son. By Nightcloud keeping Crowfeather away, she was able to fill Breezepelt with misunderstandings and ill words which conditioned Breezepelt to think even worse than he already might have been on his own opinions.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 18:43:06 GMT -5
I don't think Crowfeather should be blamed for Breezepelt's actions. While Crowfeather wasn't a very good father, he certainly wasn't that bad to warrent what Breezepelt did. Breezepelt was an adult when he chose to make the choices he did. He was old enough to understand the consequences of his actions, and he didn't care. Just because someone has neglectful parents growing up doesn't excuse the poor choices they decide to make on their own as adults. Also, not to mention if all of Breezepelt's behavior is because of Crowfeather, then why didn't Breezepelt take his anger out on Crowfeather? I know it was mentioned in the books, but it was never acted on. I feel like if all of this was because Crowfeather neglected him as a child that Breezepelt would try to take his anger out on Crowfeather personally instead of targeting random cats who had nothing to do with the situation. Even in the final battle Breezepelt is more worried about getting revenge against Lionblaze who did nothing to him besides exist and be his half brother than he is Crowfeather. He doesn't even fight against his father when Crowfeather pulls him off Lionblaze, and then he runs away. Honestly I always got the interrpretation that Breezepelt acted out because he didn't like that Crowfeather was the three's father. As soon as he found that out, that's when he started acting out and they were already his target. He tries to kill Jayfeather, gloats over Hollyleaf's death, and then in TLH when Breeze tries to kill Lion, Ivy asks him if he really wants to fight for Brokenstar. Breeze says this isnt about Broken, but that the three should have never been born. Why would he feel so strongly about this and say this is his reasoning if it's really because of Crowfeather? Crowfeather didn't raise them so I know it isn't a jealousy thing. Also going back to what I said earlier, if it was about Crowfeather then why didn't Breezepelt confront him? All he says is that he thought his father hated him, but he never blames him or really says anything else and instead just runs away. I feel like Breezepelt should have tried to get his revenge on Crowfeather in that moment if all of it was because of him Oh no, I’m not blaming him for Breezepelt’s actions, not most of them, I’m blaming him for his own actions, for his own horrible actions that he has never gotten crap for. I always believed Breezepelt’s actions and lack of harm against Crowfeather was his intense desire to finally recieve attention from the one cat he wanted it from the most. Whether it be negative or positive attention, either is better than no attention at all. Clearly the neglect was bad enough to twist him that much. If he was not striving for attention, he indeed would have just attacked Crowfeather. Breezepelt clearly protected and defended Nightcloud because she at least treated him like her child and not like nothing at all. Again, Breezepelt gets no excuses from me. His actions were bad, and while I want a redemption for him, I know he’ll never be able to truly wipe his slate away. But my anger is pointed at Crowfeather not taking any responsability for his blatant actions.
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 22, 2018 18:53:15 GMT -5
Also, Nightcloud ignoring Crowfeather's praise reminded me of that time Crowfeather didn't praise Breezepaw way back in Eclipse. Literally the first thing that came to mind when I read that! They have quite a few throwbacks here (like remembering Deadfoot and Ashfoot were Crowfeather's parents), and I wonder if that was intentional. It actually made me laugh, tbh, because of how offended he is lol I'm probably the most amazed that they remembered Deadfoot was his father because it was never even stated in the books. Never! It was confirmed in outside media. Wasn't Vicky the only one who said that Deadfoot was the father? I don't remember about Kate and Cherith.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 22, 2018 18:54:35 GMT -5
Literally the first thing that came to mind when I read that! They have quite a few throwbacks here (like remembering Deadfoot and Ashfoot were Crowfeather's parents), and I wonder if that was intentional. It actually made me laugh, tbh, because of how offended he is lol I'm probably the most amazed that they remembered Deadfoot was his father because it was never even stated in the books. Never! It was confirmed in outside media. Wasn't Vicky the only one who said that Deadfoot was the father? I don't remember about Kate and Cherith. Yeah, she confirmed it in a fan letter. I was pleasantly surprised too.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 18:56:56 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I agree. The nod to Dead and Ash being Crow’s parents was really cool!
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Post by Basement Cat on Aug 22, 2018 19:06:00 GMT -5
I don't get it. It isn't an all-or-nothing scenario. Crowfeather isn't solely to blame, Nightcloud isn't solely to blame, and Breezepelt isn't solely to blame. Crowfeather isn't cat Satan, Nightcloud isn't innocent and blameless, and Breezepelt isn't an innocent misunderstood cat.
They are all generally garbage cats who had a garbage family life and act like garbage. It is a family of terrible cats who have issues.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 22, 2018 19:11:11 GMT -5
I'm kinda getting sick of the Crowfeather blame and hate to be honest. He's not that bad, Nightcloud is to blame for stuff, too. Breezepelt is mostly to blame. Not like it's his own choice to fight with dead cats that are fine with genocide and kit-killing.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 22, 2018 19:12:49 GMT -5
Another valid point to bring up is that cats in prior books literally mated to just have their own family, how is Crowfeather so bad for this? We haven't really seen from a WindClan POV how things went down, but no, let's throw hate onto Crowfeather.
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Post by Sundance on Aug 22, 2018 19:12:58 GMT -5
It just pisses me off that Crowfeather is questioning how he raised such a bad kit but still does not fess up or act upon his neglect! And if parents wished their kids death for every malicious action they did, then nothing will get solved and nobody will receive the help they need. You guys can have your opinions, but I stand by mine, that wishing death doesn’t make you any better than someone else who wished death. Again, I excuse none of Breezepelt’s actions, but at the same time Crowfeather thinking his son deserves death rather than trying to even understand or strive to demand why Breezepelt did what he did shows his awful actions. Of course, I have to read more to make full opinions, but I don’t find them wishing Breezepelt death in such a way, mostly Crowfeather inwardly thinking that he possibly should, to be good at all. That’s just what I think. I know neither of us are likely to budge on this, and that's perfectly alright! But I can't help but reply because, holy smokes, there's a lot to unpack here. :-P "Wishing death doesn’t make you any better than someone else who wished death."Breezepelt attempted murder multiple times, and was perfectly on board with the idea of committing mass genocide. He's not on the same playing field as those WindClan warriors who offhandedly wished a badger would kill him, nor would their words constitute a threat, in my opinion. One is decidedly worse to me. To the point where it makes the other justifiable. Who wants someone who could be a threat to others lives hanging around? "Crowfeather thinking his son deserves death rather than trying to even understand or strive to demand why Breezepelt did what he did shows his awful actions."Understanding a would-be murderers thought process doesn't negate from, nor change, what they did. And, in any case, "daddy issues" isn't an excuse for fighting alongside hell. He wanted to be a part of that, felt it was right. And that goes beyond reason. Seems pretty cut-and-dry to me. I don't see what there is for Crowfeather to learn there. He's already acknowledged that he's failed as a father. Breezepelt, as an independent, fully-functioning adult, needs to take accountability for his actions more than anyone else. "Crowfeather couldn’t suppress a gasp of shock. Great StarClan, are they featherbrained? He wasn’t sure that he trusted Breezepelt, but he couldn’t believe he had heard a cat wishing death upon a warrior from her own Clan."
^^ These lines also make me think that Crowfeather doesn't believe that Breezepelt deserves to die.
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Post by Sundance on Aug 22, 2018 19:18:15 GMT -5
I don't get it. It isn't an all-or-nothing scenario. Crowfeather isn't solely to blame, Nightcloud isn't solely to blame, and Breezepelt isn't solely to blame. Crowfeather isn't cat Satan, Nightcloud isn't innocent and blameless, and Breezepelt isn't an innocent misunderstood cat. They are all generally garbage cats who had a garbage family life and act like garbage. It is a family of terrible cats who have issues. AMEN. :-P
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 19:20:50 GMT -5
I'm kinda getting sick of the Crowfeather blame and hate to be honest. He's not that bad, Nightcloud is to blame for stuff, too. Breezepelt is mostly to blame. Not like it's his own choice to fight with dead cats that are fine with genocide and kit-killing. We’ll just have to agree to disagree, because I get sick of Nightcloud hate and Crowfeather sympathy, but I know I can’t change opinions, so yeah ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6575102/images/RCFqazfvhbMAeE5hIhD3.gif)
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 19:21:26 GMT -5
I don't get it. It isn't an all-or-nothing scenario. Crowfeather isn't solely to blame, Nightcloud isn't solely to blame, and Breezepelt isn't solely to blame. Crowfeather isn't cat Satan, Nightcloud isn't innocent and blameless, and Breezepelt isn't an innocent misunderstood cat. They are all generally garbage cats who had a garbage family life and act like garbage. It is a family of terrible cats who have issues. I suppose I can at least agree somewhat to this. For me, it’s Crow or all of them, really, in terms of blame.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Aug 22, 2018 19:22:36 GMT -5
I'm kinda getting sick of the Crowfeather blame and hate to be honest. He's not that bad, Nightcloud is to blame for stuff, too. Breezepelt is mostly to blame. Not like it's his own choice to fight with dead cats that are fine with genocide and kit-killing. We’ll just have to agree to disagree, because I get sick of Nightcloud hate and Crowfeather sympathy, but I know I can’t change opinions, so yeah ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6575102/images/RCFqazfvhbMAeE5hIhD3.gif) My issue is that a majority put it all on Crowfeather and put Nightloud on a pedestal.. Like.. She hasn't admitted fault when she is to blame as well while Crowfeather has. They used each other, end of story. It's been strongly hinted. She's being petty and it's pathetic.
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Post by ~Ƈαммι-`ღ´- on Aug 22, 2018 19:25:49 GMT -5
Dovewing- green eyes. Oh boy. Beetlewhisker is finally gone. Those editors just have to trade one problem for another to tick off the fandom, don't they... :/
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~Ƈαммι-`ღ´-
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Post by ~Ƈαммι-`ღ´- on Aug 22, 2018 19:28:59 GMT -5
Thought I was the only one who noticed that. Nope, noticed as well. TS is the shortest one and from Amazon standards, CT is about the same length. It's a shame. Hopefully SH isn't as short. Maybe they're getting shorter 'cause they're running out of good ideas o-o I wonder tho, are these really Super Editions anymore when they're becoming only as long as the main books? XD
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Post by Sundance on Aug 22, 2018 19:30:53 GMT -5
Dovewing- green eyes. Oh boy. Beetlewhisker is finally gone. Those editors just have to trade one problem for another to tick off the fandom, don't they... :/ They like to keep us on our toes!
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 22, 2018 19:33:01 GMT -5
I remember when Toadstep wished death on TC's former DF trainees in Dovewing's Silence. I was pretty angry at him. The only difference here if that they fought for TC, while Breezepelt fought for the DF.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 19:42:05 GMT -5
I remember when Toadstep wished death on TC's former DF trainees in Dovewing's Silence. I was pretty angry at him. The only difference here if that they fought for TC, while Breezepelt fought for the DF. That's true. Those cats in ThunderClan were already willing to make up for what they did (and helping fight against the Dark Forest was a pretty good start), and they still gave them heck.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 19:47:33 GMT -5
I just hope they give more spotlight on Breezepelt and Harespring. Crowfeather I could care less about, but those two interest me.
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Post by chimken nugget on Aug 22, 2018 19:48:35 GMT -5
FINALLY
And the best part.... FORMER MATE!!!
Dovewing's eyes are listed as green.
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 22, 2018 19:49:09 GMT -5
I kind of wish that the book will tell us who Featherpaw's parents and littermates are (if she has any). But I doubt it will happen. I headcanon her and Hootpaw as littermates due to both having a gray pelt. As for parents:
Whiskernose and Whitetail are elders (not to say it's impossible since both retired after OOTS)
Larkwing and Crouchfoot are new warriors.
Heathertail doesn't give birth to her kits for a while. On Kate's Blog it's stated that Breezepelt is the father of her kits. I hope we see their kits in the book, even if it's just in the manga.
Emberfoot and Sedgewhisker are the parents of Fernstripe. I'm not sure if they are actually Larkwing's parents or not. That's up for interpretation. Though Larkwing has a brown pelt like Sedgewhisker. Actually, so does Oatpaw. And Emberfoot has a gray pelt. Hm.
The only black cats are Nightcloud and Breezepelt and neither one is Slightpaw's parent. (That's pretty obvious to me)
You know... Weaselfur has a ginger pelt like Crouchfoot. Unless the book says otherwise, I now headcanon him as Crouchfoot's father.
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 22, 2018 19:50:31 GMT -5
I just hope they give more spotlight on Breezepelt and Harespring. Crowfeather I could care less about, but those two interest me. Yeah, I'd love to learn more about Harespring. I really love his character in AVOS.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Aug 22, 2018 19:55:07 GMT -5
Emberfoot and Sedgewhisker are the parents of Fernstripe. I'm not sure if they are actually Larkwing's parents or not. That's up for interpretation. Though Larkwing has a brown pelt like Sedgewhisker. They were confirmed to be Larkwing's parents when Kate posted the first draft of the TAQ allegiances. Has this been done away with or something?
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Post by Katanaheart on Aug 22, 2018 19:58:37 GMT -5
Crowfeather is actually pretty logical, after all wouldn’t you want a would-be murderer dead, but not by your own hands? As if fate just took care of them, so they wouldn’t be around to harm someone else? Crowfeather isn’t exactly seeing him as his son with agreeing to that viewpoint. That in itself is a big problem. He doesn’t see him as a son. I don’t think he ever did. Yet he wonders why he failed in fatherhood. Maybe because he thinks thoughts like these rather than wondering what he can do to actually be a father for once in his life. He fails as a father, and now he’s agreeig that a badger come along and get rid of his failure instead of actually doing something that could actually help. I’m fine if people are fine with Crowfeather thinking his son deserves death, but it is not ever going to be okay to me. It’s not like Crowfeather told Breezepelt to go join the Dark Forest and attack the Clans. And likely parents that either thought they were in the right with raising their kids, no matter how well they actually did, will always have thoughts like this. (Frankly it’s rather interesting to hear of that view point for once, things I read rarely include it. But parents in similar veins to Crowfeather with terrible children, tend to blame themselves and think such thoughts. Again, they usually see themselves as in the “right,” I’m not excusing Crowfeather’s neglect here, merely point out his thought process to blame himself with a horrible child, is pretty realistic.) And it’s not getting rid of “my failure,” it is getting rid of a “dangerous person that would rather have had everyone wiped out and even willingly helped with such a cause,”
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Post by *Faith* on Aug 22, 2018 20:03:24 GMT -5
Emberfoot and Sedgewhisker are the parents of Fernstripe. I'm not sure if they are actually Larkwing's parents or not. That's up for interpretation. Though Larkwing has a brown pelt like Sedgewhisker. They were confirmed to be Larkwing's parents when Kate posted the first draft of the TAQ allegiances. Has this been done away with or something? No, it hasn't changed or anything. But I'm pretty sure Kate was referring to her as one of the kits Sedgewhisker was pregnant with in Bramblestar's Storm, which really throws me off. I'm just a little confused about it.
Larkwing was even listed as an apprentice in the Thunder and Shadow allegiances.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 22, 2018 20:04:33 GMT -5
That in itself is a big problem. He doesn’t see him as a son. I don’t think he ever did. Yet he wonders why he failed in fatherhood. Maybe because he thinks thoughts like these rather than wondering what he can do to actually be a father for once in his life. He fails as a father, and now he’s agreeig that a badger come along and get rid of his failure instead of actually doing something that could actually help. I’m fine if people are fine with Crowfeather thinking his son deserves death, but it is not ever going to be okay to me. It’s not like Crowfeather told Breezepelt to go join the Dark Forest and attack the Clans. And likely parents that either thought they were in the right with raising their kids, no matter how well they actually did, will always have thoughts like this. (Frankly it’s rather interesting to hear of that view point for once, things I read rarely include it. But parents in similar veins to Crowfeather with terrible children, tend to blame themselves and think such thoughts. Again, they usually see themselves as in the “right,” I’m not excusing Crowfeather’s neglect here, merely point out his thought process to blame himself with a horrible child, is pretty realistic.) And it’s not getting rid of “my failure,” it is getting rid of a “dangerous person that would rather have had everyone wiped out and even willingly helped with such a cause,” And it’s realistic for the neglected child to be extremely messed up and do extreme measures to gain attention from their abusing parent, but that does not gain any reasoning for Breezepelt for many people. Crowfeather is still preferring death for his kit rather than attempting to parent or speak to his child who he blatantly neglected. Our opinions clearly aren’t going to change, so we can only agree to move on at this point, I believe.
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Post by Katanaheart on Aug 22, 2018 20:07:21 GMT -5
It’s not like Crowfeather told Breezepelt to go join the Dark Forest and attack the Clans. And likely parents that either thought they were in the right with raising their kids, no matter how well they actually did, will always have thoughts like this. (Frankly it’s rather interesting to hear of that view point for once, things I read rarely include it. But parents in similar veins to Crowfeather with terrible children, tend to blame themselves and think such thoughts. Again, they usually see themselves as in the “right,” I’m not excusing Crowfeather’s neglect here, merely point out his thought process to blame himself with a horrible child, is pretty realistic.) And it’s not getting rid of “my failure,” it is getting rid of a “dangerous person that would rather have had everyone wiped out and even willingly helped with such a cause,” And it’s realistic for the neglected child to be extremely messed up and do extreme measures to gain attention from their abusing parent, but that does not gain any reasoning for Breezepelt for many people. Crowfeather is still preferring death for his kit rather than attempting to parent or speak to his child who he blatantly neglected. Our opinions clearly aren’t going to change, so we can only agree to move on at this point, I believe. That is most likely the best arrangement then.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 22, 2018 21:31:21 GMT -5
Featherpaw/pelt's a cutie. I really want to see more of her now.
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