#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 6, 2018 18:48:45 GMT -5
What do you guys think?
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on May 6, 2018 18:59:49 GMT -5
he should have. forgiveness shouldn't have to equal getting back together.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 6, 2018 19:43:36 GMT -5
Squirrel deserved better than him from the start tbh, but I guess better her than trash like Jessy.
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Asexual
#ca55a0
Name Colour
Rανєη'ѕ ƑƖιgнт
Rebel Queen
Art by Nicoletta Baldari
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Post by Rανєη'ѕ ƑƖιgнт on May 6, 2018 20:44:29 GMT -5
Yes. Bramblestar definitely had a right to be mad at her, but being mean to her was uncalled for.
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Post by lollycat on May 6, 2018 21:05:01 GMT -5
Yes, Bramblestar should have forgiven Spuirreflight a lot sooner. But you know what there is still a big secret between them. He has never admitted to her about training with Tigerstar and Hawkfrost. What she did was out of love for her sister and the kits but why did Brambleclaw train with them when he knew what Tigerstar did?
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on May 6, 2018 21:12:32 GMT -5
He should have. Bramblestar is a massive hypocrite and Squirrelflight deserves better. You have little to no right to be angry when you're hiding a secret just as massive as your mate's. If Bramblestar had said anything about the DF, then maybe the DF wouldn't have had such a big following. The Clans would have been more cautious. |
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on May 6, 2018 22:53:03 GMT -5
Honestly he had every righr to be as angry as he was. If it was me I do t kbow that I would off been able to forgive for a mong time.
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Post by chimken nugget on May 6, 2018 23:35:24 GMT -5
He had the right to be angry for a while, but considering that he still hasn’t told Squirrelflight about the Dark Forest, he should have forgiven her much earlier in OoTS.
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on May 7, 2018 16:50:04 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I love Squirrelflight, but it was reasonable for Bramblestar to be angry. I mean, seriously? Finding out the cats you thought were your kits for a good portion of your life, actually aren't and you're just part of this scheme you never had a chance to agree too? If this happened to a person in this society, they'd probably stay angry their entire life. And - okay - maybe he was a little...unkind? He was never downright cruel to her. He just avoided her and contradicted her from time to time. I'm surprised people call him nasty and treat him awfully. Honestly, he reacted better than most cats would.
Sigh I wish Squirrelflight and Bramblestar didn't have to be dragged into this mess....
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Post by gonxkillua on May 7, 2018 16:53:31 GMT -5
You would Bramblestar would be more understanding of Squirrel motives. That she and leafpool just didn't want those kits to judge based on heritage like he was and were not trying to hurt him.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 16:58:41 GMT -5
Bramblestar is a massive hypocrite and I don't like him, but he had the right to be angry with her. She lied to him as well. He genuinely thought the Three were his kits. However I do agree it's pathetic he was angry for so long. He had the right to be mad, but shouldn't have held onto it for so long. But that's just me.
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on May 7, 2018 16:59:25 GMT -5
He should have. Bramblestar is a massive hypocrite and Squirrelflight deserves better. You have little to no right to be angry when you're hiding a secret just as massive as your mate's. If Bramblestar had said anything about the DF, then maybe the DF wouldn't have had such a big following. The Clans would have been more cautious.
I don't understand why he's a hypocrite. It is important to be honest in a relationship but look at it this way. Squirrelflight lied to him about who his children were for a long time. Bramblestar didn't tell her about his training in the Dark Forest for a short while. The difference is that while who Bramblestar's kits were was his business, the whole deal with the Dark Forest training, was not her business. It's a huge difference. It gives Bramblestar the right to keep it from her. I guess you could say he wasn't being honest with her but did it have anything to do with Squirrelflight? Would it change/play a big role in her life? It didn't, besides The Great Battle, which, honestly, affected everyone. I'd say Bramblestar didn't want her to see him as a villain or be worried about him committing a horrible crime. I think that's reasonable because for the past two books, she was wary of him and how he seemed every time the topic of being deputy was mentioned or how he was acting in general. He loved her and didn't want to lose her, so he didn't tell her. Was it wrong for him to distort how she saw him to his own benefit? I guess you could say so, yeah. But was it honestly a big deal? I disagree. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 17:03:15 GMT -5
I don't get why
He should have. Bramblestar is a massive hypocrite and Squirrelflight deserves better. You have little to no right to be angry when you're hiding a secret just as massive as your mate's. If Bramblestar had said anything about the DF, then maybe the DF wouldn't have had such a big following. The Clans would have been more cautious.
I don't why he's a hypocrite. It is important to be honest in a relationship but look at it this why. Squirrelflight lied to him about who his children were for a long time. Bramblestar didn't tell her about his training in the Dark Forest for a short while. The difference is that while who Bramblestar's kits were was his business, the whole deal with the Dark Forest training, was not her business. It's a huge difference. It gives Bramblestar the right to keep it from her. I guess you could say he wasn't honest but did it have anything to do with Squirrelflight? Would it change her life? Did it play a big role in her life? It didn't. I'd say Bramblestar didn't want her to see him as a villain or be worried about him committing a horrible crime. I think that's reasonable because for the past two books, she was wary of him and how he seemed every time the topic of being deputy was mentioned or how he was acting in general. He loved her and didn't want to lose her, so he didn't tell her. Was it wrong for him to distort how she saw him to his own benefit? I guess you could say so, yeah. But was it honestly a big deal? I disagree. Relationships are supposed to be built on trust. Squirrelflight may not have handled the situation right but he was dumb enough to fall for the Dark Forest, even though he experienced from his own eyes what his father has done. That's why we're harder on Bramblestar. He had a choice; she didn't. StarClan forced her to lie to them, and Leafpool dragged her into this mess. I think Bramblestar was too hard on her. She did what she thought was best, but what Bramblestar has done was foolish and broke the code by lying to his Clan. |
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on May 7, 2018 17:10:28 GMT -5
I don't get why
I don't why he's a hypocrite. It is important to be honest in a relationship but look at it this why. Squirrelflight lied to him about who his children were for a long time. Bramblestar didn't tell her about his training in the Dark Forest for a short while. The difference is that while who Bramblestar's kits were was his business, the whole deal with the Dark Forest training, was not her business. It's a huge difference. It gives Bramblestar the right to keep it from her. I guess you could say he wasn't honest but did it have anything to do with Squirrelflight? Would it change her life? Did it play a big role in her life? It didn't. I'd say Bramblestar didn't want her to see him as a villain or be worried about him committing a horrible crime. I think that's reasonable because for the past two books, she was wary of him and how he seemed every time the topic of being deputy was mentioned or how he was acting in general. He loved her and didn't want to lose her, so he didn't tell her. Was it wrong for him to distort how she saw him to his own benefit? I guess you could say so, yeah. But was it honestly a big deal? I disagree. Relationships are supposed to be built on trust. Squirrelflight may not have handled the situation right but he was dumb enough to fall for the Dark Forest, even though he experienced from his own eyes what his father has done. That's why we're harder on Bramblestar. He had a choice; she didn't. StarClan forced her to lie to them, and Leafpool dragged her into this mess. I think Bramblestar was too hard on her. She did what she thought was best, but what Bramblestar has done was foolish and broke the code by lying to his Clan.
It was a mistake but there was a part of him who wanted to believe there was a good side to his father. Unfortunately, he had to figure out the hard way it wasn't. He was naïve but he didn't lie to his Clan. He wanted to help them as deputy and he wrongly listened to his father to do this. Anyways, he made the right choice in the end.
Again, I love Squirrelflight and I don't really blame her as she was pressured into doing it, but Bramblestar's reaction was reasonable. He didn't know she was pressured, all he knew was that she didn't trust him enough to tell him the truth and felt like she had to lie to him to get him to play along. Again - not entirely true, but in his defense, he didn't know about StarClan's role in this. He probably should've given Squirrelflight a chance to explain, but he was grieving at the time and then he was too bitter and disgusted with her to even approach her again. It's true that Squirrelflight didn't deserve it, but I still think how Bramblestar reacted was justifiable.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 7, 2018 17:15:05 GMT -5
Haha...doesn't Bramblestar literally have a revelation and understands why Squirrel did what she did in BrS, which is why they ended up getting back together in the first place??? He was literally abusing his own power as leader just to save his sister in ShadowClan, despite her leader now appreciating their help, Dustpelt literally died for another Clan's sake, and ShadowClan were ungrateful furballs.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2018 17:18:54 GMT -5
While Bramblestar does have a right to be upset about Squirrelflight lying to him (especially when he thought that Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Hollyleaf were his own kids), him giving her the cold shoulder for a long time was pretty stupid. I'm not a fan of characters who let their grudge go on for too long.
In summation, I think Bramblestar could've fully listened to Squirrelflight and either work things out better (like with trust) if they want to be mates or be just friends and leave it at that.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 7, 2018 17:22:46 GMT -5
He was also obviously flaunting around with another she-cat while Squirrelflight was around. I also hated his last words to Jessy, it's like we could have been a thing, but I have to settle for my ex, deal. And I hate that. It's insulting to the she-cat that raised his kits, even if it wasn't biological.
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Post by mothsnap on May 7, 2018 17:27:13 GMT -5
Squirrelflight was really mean near the end of New Prophecy. As far as I'm concerned their whole relationship is one big mess. Squirrelflight getting with Ashfur was just as bad as Bramblestar wanted to get with Jessy as far as I'm concerned. I know that Ashfur is a part of the clan, but Squirrelflight didn't even like him at all at any point and was just trying to make Brambleclaw jealous and stick it up to him for no reason. I haven't read Bramblestar's Storm, but I hear it's pretty bad there as well. Squirrelflight was bad from the start so I'm more angry at her. Brambleclaw was cool at one point
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foxstep
loves squirrelflight way too much
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Post by foxstep on May 7, 2018 17:27:42 GMT -5
He was also obviously flaunting around with another she-cat while Squirrelflight was around. I also hated his last words to Jessy, it's like we could have been a thing, but I have to settle for my ex, deal. And I hate that. It's insulting to the she-cat that raised his kits, even if it wasn't biological.
I know I've been defending him this whole time, but I just can't forgive him for the thing with Jessy  But I like to pretend Bramblestar's Storm just never happened. The flood is never mentioned again, so 
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on May 7, 2018 17:34:47 GMT -5
He should have. Bramblestar is a massive hypocrite and Squirrelflight deserves better. You have little to no right to be angry when you're hiding a secret just as massive as your mate's. If Bramblestar had said anything about the DF, then maybe the DF wouldn't have had such a big following. The Clans would have been more cautious.
[...] It is important to be honest in a relationship but look at it this way. Squirrelflight lied to him about who his children were for a long time. Bramblestar didn't tell her about his training in the Dark Forest for a short while. The difference is that while who Bramblestar's kits were was his business, the whole deal with the Dark Forest training, was not her business. It's a huge difference. You're right, it is a huge difference, because technically the kits' reveal only affected their nuclear family. Well, them and Crow/Night/Breeze; the Clans did have issue with those three, but I'm ignoring them for this specific issue, and addressing this from Bramblestar's eyes about who lied. Squirrelflight's nuclear family that's affected is him, her, Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze, with Leafpool on the outskirts. Holly & Co. kinda did lie later when they found out and didn't tell him, but I give them no grief about that, and I don't think he's aware of that. So all in all, her secret caused a problem/web of lies for six cats. However, what he did in the Dark Forest and what he was planning with Tigerstar to do to commit treason had ripple effects that affected all the Clans, which also includes Squirrelflight, so that's a way bigger secret. The least he could do was share that with her and recognize how messed up that is. In his eyes, she didn't trust him -- well, he has as little trust in her. Honestly, his secret is way worse than hers, if you ask me. |
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Post by Brindlefern on May 7, 2018 17:46:28 GMT -5
Squirrelflight was really mean near the end of New Prophecy. As far as I'm concerned their whole relationship is one big mess. Squirrelflight getting with Ashfur was just as bad as Bramblestar wanted to get with Jessy as far as I'm concerned. I know that Ashfur is a part of the clan, but Squirrelflight didn't even like him at all at any point and was just trying to make Brambleclaw jealous and stick it up to him for no reason. I haven't read Bramblestar's Storm, but I hear it's pretty bad there as well. Squirrelflight was bad from the start so I'm more angry at her. Brambleclaw was cool at one point Ahaha... No.If anything, Ashfur was like a shoulder for Squirrelflight to lean on. She was going through relationship issues and went to him for comfort, because that's what friends do. And it was confirmed a loooong fricking time ago that she wasn't getting with him to "make Brambleclaw jealous". Why... is that even still being said? I'm honestly tired of seeing that still being said even after the authors said that wasn't what was going on in the slightest. =3= |
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Post by mothsnap on May 7, 2018 18:00:14 GMT -5
Squirrelflight was really mean near the end of New Prophecy. As far as I'm concerned their whole relationship is one big mess. Squirrelflight getting with Ashfur was just as bad as Bramblestar wanted to get with Jessy as far as I'm concerned. I know that Ashfur is a part of the clan, but Squirrelflight didn't even like him at all at any point and was just trying to make Brambleclaw jealous and stick it up to him for no reason. I haven't read Bramblestar's Storm, but I hear it's pretty bad there as well. Squirrelflight was bad from the start so I'm more angry at her. Brambleclaw was cool at one point Ahaha... No.If anything, Ashfur was like a shoulder for Squirrelflight to lean on. She was going through relationship issues and went to him for comfort, because that's what friends do. And it was confirmed a loooong fricking time ago that she wasn't getting with him to "make Brambleclaw jealous". Why... is that even still being said? I'm honestly tired of seeing that still being said even after the authors said that wasn't what was going on in the slightest. =3= And what was the problem that was happened that Squirrelflight needed the shoulder to cry on? Brambleclaw was criticizing her for being lazy and not doing work like the rest of the clan. Squirrelflight was criticizing Brambleclaw for not despising Hawkfrost who hadn't really done anything wrong at that point. Squirrelflight was also calling Brambleclaw "too ambitious" and "just like this father" with pretty much no provocation. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on May 8, 2018 10:51:54 GMT -5
When your mate trains with his father that is a mass murderer and hates your father in literal cat hell, considers killing your father so he can be leader for a second, and fails to inform the Clans leading to the loss of many Clanmates and the death of your "adoptive" daughter. But that's not any of your business. Same goes for Lionblaze. He's just as bad as his pathetic "adoptive" father. |
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Post by lollycat on May 8, 2018 21:21:21 GMT -5
In an earlier post I was down on Brambleclaw/star but I really like him and squirrelflight. They were meant to be together. They finally figured out what it means to be mates. I think squirrelflight figured it out first because of her dealings with Ashfur. Brambleclaw/star realized that his loyalty was with Squirrelflight when he was with Jessie. Brambleclaw/star and Squirrelflight will always love each other and will always be together. They are happy together.
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Post by Ligerfrost on May 10, 2018 12:13:54 GMT -5
Bramblestar and Squirrelflight DID NOT get back together at the end of The Last Hope. Bramblestar forgave her,but they weren't mates. They don't go back to being mates until the end of Bramblestar's Storm.So Bramblestar pursuing a different relationship was fine since he was not in a relationship. He and Squirrelflight went back to being friends.
I think the amount of time he spent angry was realistic and since no two people deal with a situation the exact same way I was no reason it needed to be shorter. He was civil but cold again understandable. I don't remember him going out of his way to make her miserable just that he distant and cold toward her.
They're relationship has always been heavily flawed. Beginning with the lack of trust between both cats. Squirrelflight couldn't trust Bramblestar not to become his father and Bramblestar couldn't trust her to not see his father in him. Which was a problem all through A New Prophecy. Squirrelflight practically accused Bramblestar of being disloyal in New Prophecy because he wanted to get to know Hawkfrost, who honestly hadn't done much of anything (at the time) to warrant such a response, it was the starting catalyst that broke them up the first time. Because their communication was poor and hot headed feelings got in the way. Ultimately they ended up hearing each other out later and realizing they both jumped the gun to quickly.
But they didn't really grow from that experience because the same problem was what broke them up a second time. Though Leafpool is more to blame for it happening due to her lack of trust for Bramblestar after seeing him in the Dark Forest. But Squirrelflight could have choose to go behind her sister's back and tell her mate the truth. If she really trusted him she should have been confident he would support her. Which is why Bramblestar took the lie so hard because after New Prophecy when they made up with each other they promised to trust each other more. Yes she was trying to protect him but they are suppose to share the same fire. Squirrelflight was always offended and angry whenever, Bramblestar or Ashfur tried to defend or protect her instead of working/fighting beside her, so why would Bramblestar have felt any less angry or offended that she tried to protect him instead of giving him the same courtesy?
As for training in the Dark Forest, Bramblestar time in the forest was short, and was not solely due to ambition but came from his desire to know more of his father and his loneliness in the Clan. Before the journey, his.friends appeared to be mainly Ashfur and Willowpelt's kits, Squirrelflight became his friend while they were on the journey. When the journey was over it appeared that Ashfur had gotten closer to Sootfur and.Rainwhisker and of course Sorreltail was pursuing a relationship with Brackenfur. Which meant that when Squirrelflight and Bramblestar split up Bramblestar lost almost all of his friends in ThunderClan as Squirrelflight had become his closest friend and he and Ashfur started to have tension between them..It made sense that he decided to focus on being the deputy. I wasn't too surprised that he was hopeful for his father to sincerely want to help him he a good warrior for ThunderClan again his knowledge of just how manipulative his father was was limited. He personally had only met his father twice and even Tawnypelt (at the time) Still respect their father even if she didn't trust him. Why did he never tell Squirrelflight? Honestly he likely thought she would think he was crazy or becoming corrupt. He may have thought Leafpool told her already since they tell each other everything. Or he may having even thought it wasn't important because it didn't truly effect anything. Many argue that it did matter because of what happened to Firestar but the Dark Forest was not needed for that to have happened, if they had found a way to meet in secret to spend time together in the living world and Hawkfrost became deluded into thinking Bramblestar.was juslik
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Post by Ligerfrost on May 10, 2018 12:20:36 GMT -5
cont... Just like him and set.the same trap up. It could have still happened even if they weren't meeting there.
the Dark Forest had no real influence in that scenario. I don't see him never mentioning it as him lying to her I see it as it didn't appear to be that important. He wasn't being corrupted by it so he didn't believe it needed to be brought up. The kits did effect him.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 10, 2018 12:35:15 GMT -5
Oh hey, great to see you again, Ligerfrost! Much as I don't like Jessy or her relationship with Bramblestar, I do agree that he wasn't really doing anything wrong by taking a liking to her. Squirrelflight was upset and I did feel bad for her, but she and Bramblestar only got back together at the end of BrS, so it's not like he was cheating on her or anything. As for him giving Squirrelflight the cold shoulder, I always found it annoying to read about (well, that and the poor communication they had), but I'm honestly just glad they made amends at all. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on May 10, 2018 12:37:55 GMT -5
Squirrelflight did have a right to know. Especially when it included her own father. Sorry, but Bramblestar is still a massive hypocrite and has no right to be angry considering he's hiding facts from his mate and mother to his kits. Squirrelflight had a legitimate reason while he was simply selfish. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on May 10, 2018 13:01:33 GMT -5
Squirrelflight did have a right to know. Especially when it included her own father. Sorry, but Bramblestar is still a massive hypocrite and has no right to be angry considering he's hiding facts from his mate and mother to his kits. Squirrelflight had a legitimate reason while he was simply selfish. Except Bramblestar was never told he would have to kill Firestar by Tigerstar. When Hawkfrost set the trap he realized that his father never changed and that Hawkfrost wasn't the cat he thought he was. Squirrelflight already knew he was seeing his brother so that was nothing knew and it wasn't Tigerstar's ghost that attacked Firestar it was Hawkfrost. Who ended up dying to Bramblestar there was nothing to tell her. He hadn't plotted to kill her father and until his brother trapped her father he didn't know that that was something he had to worry about. And even then he killed his brother and since Tawnypelt walked away and never looked back without anything happening to her he likely chose to do the same, he didn't believe his father could do anything from the Dark Forest. Also I don't remember fully if someone can find the quote it would be appreciated but If I recall Hawkfrost said it was a test but not that he had planned it with Tigerstar. It was approved by Tigerstar but He didn't planned it with him. I could be wrong but in any case . What happened with Firestar were the actions of Hawkfrost not the Dark Forest. He wasn't possessed, Tigerstar didn't do it if was Hawkfrost. |
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But I like to pretend Bramblestar's Storm just never happened. The flood is never mentioned again, so 
