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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 21:50:31 GMT -5
That's the word I've been forgetting. Conscience. You say God gave us all consciences, but in my opinion, humans developed a moral compass and a conscience over time. Many of theose basic laws are necessary to our survival. Okay, so before consciences were around, it was fine to **** someone? Of course not. Before consciences were around, people weren't able to **** anyone because either they didn't exist, or they were at a very primitive state. If there was a time where humans were that primitive and unthinking, then **** probably wasn't a thing since the act wouldn't have had any sort of significance or meaning to them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 21:57:49 GMT -5
Judaism was once polytheistic, but overtime the God Yahweh, who was basically Semitic Aries, became the sole God of Judaism, and then became peaceful. Um... Judaism did come from the Ancient Semitic religions, particularly Canaanite, which did worship Yahweh. But I don't think Judaism itself was ever polytheistic... it became Judaism due to their monotheism. Unless I'm mistaken.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 21:59:26 GMT -5
Okay, so before consciences were around, it was fine to **** someone? Of course not. Before consciences were around, people weren't able to **** anyone because either they didn't exist, or they were at a very primitive state. If there was a time where humans were that primitive and unthinking, then **** probably wasn't a thing since the act wouldn't have had any sort of significance or meaning to them. Interesting... this would actually be compatible with Christianity, in a sense; when the first humans were created, there was no evil; Adam and Eve knew not between right and wrong. Only when evil came into the world through man did God write the law on the hearts of man.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Sept 3, 2016 22:04:14 GMT -5
Judaism was once polytheistic, but overtime the God Yahweh, who was basically Semitic Aries, became the sole God of Judaism, and then became peaceful. Um... Judaism did come from the Ancient Semitic religions, particularly Canaanite, which did worship Yahweh. But I don't think Judaism itself was ever polytheistic... it became Judaism due to their monotheism. Unless I'm mistaken. I did say it was Semetic. This video makes a great summary about it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 22:04:18 GMT -5
Of course not. Before consciences were around, people weren't able to **** anyone because either they didn't exist, or they were at a very primitive state. If there was a time where humans were that primitive and unthinking, then **** probably wasn't a thing since the act wouldn't have had any sort of significance or meaning to them. Interesting... this would actually be compatible with Christianity, in a sense; when the first humans were created, there was no evil; Adam and Eve knew not between right and wrong. Only when evil came into the world through man did God write the law on the hearts of man. ............. You're joking. You agree?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 22:36:22 GMT -5
Interesting... this would actually be compatible with Christianity, in a sense; when the first humans were created, there was no evil; Adam and Eve knew not between right and wrong. Only when evil came into the world through man did God write the law on the hearts of man. ............. You're joking. You agree? In that sense, yes. It's interesting to note that Satan did not lie to Eve when he deceived her.
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 22:42:07 GMT -5
Guys, I'm sorry. I have pretty much doomed this thread. Please understand that I love everyone. I don't know how well I get this across in my posts, but I am never angry when I respond to anyone. I would make it clear if I were. I try so hard to make my points rational and understandable, but I cannot do this when people make assumptions. God forbid I hate anyone. There is no room in the heart of a Christian for the hatred of any person! If I felt hatred, I would fall on my face and repent. I know I do not hate, but how can I make them believe it? I can't. I don't know how. And no, I'm not a victim. At all. I don't claim to be one. I'm just sorry for quite possibly ruining such a good thing. Zero fault of your own. I'll say it again: you were standing up for your beliefs in a perfectly respectful manner, and people took it as hateful. You weren't being homophobic, and far as I can tell, you weren't arguing that gay people's rights should be restricted or anything. People get butthurt over the stupidest things sometimes. You haven't doomed this thread; if people decide not to come here because "le homophobes", ok, cool, have a nice life. I assume you're also referencing that cancerous "homophobes who use christianity as an excuse" thread. The "discussion" in that thread was stupid and mostly consisted of people accusing other people of being hateful for their opinions. I wish everyone would just shut up about this. Yes, most Christians disagree with homosexuality. No, that doesn't mean that we're trying to restrict you from being gay or "living the gay lifestyle" or basically doing whatever you want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. No, it doesn't mean that we want you to stop talking about being gay to protect our precious Christian minds. No, it doesn't mean that we don't love and respect gay people. No, we're not homophobic for disagreeing with homosexuality, because news flash: disagreement does not mean that we're trying to stop gay people from being gay and living however they want. The truth is that I really don't care if you're gay. Seriously. Yes, what a notion. I may not believe that homosexuality is right in God's eyes, but guess what- I don't care in the slightest if you are gay and choose to partake in homosexuality activity. But when you start misrepresenting my faith, spewing nonsense about how disagreement = hatred, accusing people of being homophobes for the stupidest of reasons, and slandering my friends for daring to express their opinion on a public forum- that's when I start caring. Ok my rant is over now. I'd really prefer that everyone just stop talking about this, but hey apparently it's an issue for some reason, and I guess needs to be addressed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 22:45:17 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better. Hopefully we can all get past this.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 22:48:08 GMT -5
Um... Judaism did come from the Ancient Semitic religions, particularly Canaanite, which did worship Yahweh. But I don't think Judaism itself was ever polytheistic... it became Judaism due to their monotheism. Unless I'm mistaken. I did say it was Semetic. This video makes a great summary about it. This is interesting, thank you for sharing. I just bought a book today about Jewish culture and history, so I may come across this again. After watching the video, I think it's important to note that the Jews themselves say that their ancestors pre-Abraham were idol-worshipers. The Passover Seder meal service states (reading from the Hagadah): "In the beginning our ancestors were idol worshippers, but God brought us to His service." Several stories from the Book of Kings, and later, show that the worship of idols continued. An example is the story of Elijah versus the false prophets of Baal. The essence of Judaism is monotheism - even if not all early Israelites followed this. The Hebrew Prophets condemned them for these false beliefs. It's not unreasonable, though, to assume that before the OT was written, polytheism was a prominent belief system.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 3, 2016 22:48:23 GMT -5
reading over the last page, here's my input in objective morality: How is it that non-theists can still hold similar moral beliefs to theists? How do people just /know/ something is wrong? Consciences. It's that simple. God gave us all a moral compass in the form of a conscience to guide us into understanding right from wrong.
That's the word I've been forgetting. Conscience. You say God gave us all consciences, but in my opinion, humans developed a moral compass and a conscience over time. Many of theose basic laws are necessary to our survival. yep. Catholics (and I think most Christians) would agree that while God gave us consciences, its is up to us to develop them. They can be influenced by our settings, in which case we call it an corrupt conscience. To some degree we need others to teach us right from wrong. That's why you hear stories of individuals who grew up wild and have no qualms with things like murder and cannibalism because they were never given any reason to think otherwise (and, as you have said, a lot of it has to do with social pressure and expectations). I'm sure part of it is instinct too. But again, that doesn't contradict a religious standpoint on objective morality.
Everyone thinks their version of morality is the correct one. Otherwise people wouldn't follow their morality, it'd be a living oxymoron. Think of it as thus: every church believes their interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. Now, an agnostic might say that they don't know for sure, that they have a vague belief in a higher being but aren't concerned with being religious. They may claim that they think all religions have some truth to them-- but this does not, as one might think, break the "my morality is right" mold we all share. Because that agnostic still thinks their philosophy (that all religions have some truth) is correct, and therefore believe is right. It's a bit circular, but the point stands.
The question then raised is who is most correct? There can only be one correct philosophy / moral direction. Again going back to the aforementioned paradox, even saying "there's more than one correct philosophy" is a self-acclaimed philosophy in itself. Only one can be correct, or at least more correct than the other. That's where existential questions come in.
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 22:48:57 GMT -5
Also, my spiritual gift is memeing
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 3, 2016 22:57:12 GMT -5
I love it when non-Christian people think they know more about my own religion than me. That's sarcasm, in case anyone's wondering.
I don't get the disagreement = hate thing. At all. Probably 95% of this site disagrees with my Catholic beliefs-- does that mean they hate me? Of course not-- at least, I hope not. I also don't agree with recreational drugs, per-marital sex, birth control, or just lying. That doesn't mean I hate people who do drugs, have p-m sex, use bc, or lie. I know their argument is that it's different because it's something they can't change about themselves. But I don't get how that makes it different, seeing as it's the action and not the being we disagree with. The whole thing is just full of irrational emotions. It speaks directly to my rant last week about this generation being hyper-sensitive to possibly personal attacks and assuming everything has some sinister message under it.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 3, 2016 22:58:11 GMT -5
Also, my spiritual gift is memeing never stop Tre you are a breath of air on these forums
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:02:22 GMT -5
I agree with this generation being too hyper-sensitive. But then again, I get offended at like nothing so xD
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 23:02:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Splintercat . I appreciate it. Like you, I'm generally apathetic and quiet on this issue unless explicitly asked my opinion. The only reason I posted on that thread in the first place is because OP used a verse from the Bible - upon which I base my beliefs - in an attempt to refute a topic the Bible is very clear on. The notion that "disagreement is automatically hatred" is illogical. But, for the sake of this thread (and because it never leads to anything good), I've decided to stop posting on the subject altogether (unless the discussion is taking place here). Yeah I totally understand. I try to avoid those types of conversations, but I get pissed whenever someone tries to misrepresent the Bible or Christianity and can't help but go "um 'scuse me but you're like super frickin wrong", and usually wind up making things worse. Luckily I missed all of the threads on the issue by several hours, so I didn't jump into the fray and screw things over more.
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 23:03:11 GMT -5
Also, my spiritual gift is memeing never stop Tre you are a breath of air on these forums
Dank you ❤️
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 23:12:32 GMT -5
I love it when non-Christian people think they know more about my own religion than me. That's sarcasm, in case anyone's wondering.
I don't get the disagreement = hate thing. At all. Probably 95% of this site disagrees with my Catholic beliefs-- does that mean they hate me? Of course not-- at least, I hope not. I also don't agree with recreational drugs, per-marital sex, birth control, or just lying. That doesn't mean I hate people who do drugs, have p-m sex, use bc, or lie. I know their argument is that it's different because it's something they can't change about themselves. But I don't get how that makes it different, seeing as it's the action and not the being we disagree with. The whole thing is just full of irrational emotions. It speaks directly to my rant last week about this generation being hyper-sensitive to possibly personal attacks and assuming everything has some sinister message under it. Absolutely. The argument works both ways. I'll use a simple example I used in a PM earlier (which still has not been refuted): If you have a friend who likes a TV show that you don't like, and they say it's awesome and you say 'no, it's not,' does that mean you hate them? Absolutely not. Can you still be their friend without necessarily agreeing every time they talk about how amazing the show is? Of course. Now, if you try and force them not to watch the show, or insult them for having 'such a stupid and wrong opinion,' then you're in the wrong. It is fine to disagree. It is not fine to try and force others to disagree. LOOK AT YOUR RANK YOU'RE A DANK WARRIOR ok ahem sorry (edit: ah I see you've already discovered this. Congratulations, I salute you and your dank rank.) Yeah you're right. That analogy's great. I think most people aren't understanding that (a) we don't actually care whether you partake in homosexual activity or not, we just disagree with it, and ( we don't believe that just being attracted to the opposite gender is sinful; you're right, that's not something you can control. We believe that acting on that attraction is sinful. Again, we don't actually care whether you do or not, and we aren't going to force you to stop, and we don't hate you.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:13:59 GMT -5
DANK WARRIORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Sept 3, 2016 23:16:47 GMT -5
i would literally never notice the secret ranks if someone didn't actively point them out to me every time they happened
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:20:13 GMT -5
i would literally never notice the secret ranks if someone didn't actively point them out to me every time they happened ikr
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:23:26 GMT -5
i will never understand how people can make jokes about selling their souls and worshipping the devil without feeling uncomfortable like i feel weird typing that
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 23:28:42 GMT -5
i will never understand how people can make jokes about selling their souls and worshipping the devil without feeling uncomfortable like i feel weird typing that I'm with you on that. I saw a post on another website about some guy who dressed up as Satan and went to a Halloween party with a clipboard and a bunch of contracts he made, and he kept asking people to sign over their souls. I mean it was a joke but he got like 50 signers. I'd be like heck nah I'm staying way away from that
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:29:03 GMT -5
i've joked about selling my soul (to school lol) but yeah the devil worshipping comments and jokes make me squirm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:34:17 GMT -5
i will never understand how people can make jokes about selling their souls and worshipping the devil without feeling uncomfortable like i feel weird typing that I'm with you on that. I saw a post on another website about some guy who dressed up as Satan and went to a Halloween party with a clipboard and a bunch of contracts he made, and he kept asking people to sign over their souls. I mean it was a joke but he got like 50 signers. I'd be like heck nah I'm staying way away from that oh yikes
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:34:24 GMT -5
I agree with you guys on the disagreement vs hate thing, and also the devil thing.
It always made me super uncomfortable when people dressed up as Satan for halloween. I know it's not supposed to mean anything, but anything that portrays Satan in a light hearted joking manner always makes me really uncomfortable and I don't like it at all. I feel like that's not something that should be joked about, but that's just me
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:34:33 GMT -5
i've joked about selling my soul (to school lol) but yeah the devil worshipping comments and jokes make me squirm. i probably have to tbh but like devil worshipping yikes
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Post by Splintercat on Sept 3, 2016 23:36:36 GMT -5
i've joked about selling my soul (to school lol) but yeah the devil worshipping comments and jokes make me squirm. Yeah, I've even got Christian friends who joke about being demon-possessed and even devil worship and stuff, and I'm just like "how are you ok with saying that". I'd just feel really weird saying something like that. Also, these three kids tried to play "Charlie, Charlie" in the middle of Bible class at my school one time. We'd been talking about demons and not screwing around with that sort of thing for a few weeks prior, so the teacher was pretty furious.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:38:03 GMT -5
Anything having to do with demons or Satan creeps me out and I've never understood how people can take those things so lightly
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:38:59 GMT -5
i've joked about selling my soul (to school lol) but yeah the devil worshipping comments and jokes make me squirm. i probably have to tbh but like devil worshipping yikes yeah anything like that makes me uncomfortable
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:40:13 GMT -5
i've joked about selling my soul (to school lol) but yeah the devil worshipping comments and jokes make me squirm. Yeah, I've even got Christian friends who joke about being demon-possessed and even devil worship and stuff, and I'm just like "how are you ok with saying that". I'd just feel really weird saying something like that. Also, these three kids tried to play "Charlie, Charlie" in the middle of Bible class at my school one time. We'd been talking about demons and not screwing around with that sort of thing for a few weeks prior, so the teacher was pretty furious. oh creepy man sometimes people just don't understand the power of all that stuff eugh it's making me creeped out xDD
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