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Post by Shrike on Jun 5, 2017 22:55:54 GMT -5
personally, i don't care at all one way or another
people wanna do it out of support? hell yeah go for it m'dude
i'm not gonna nitpick people who are just doing what they believe is a kind show of support for the community, yannow?
so i'm all for it ยฏ\_(ใ)_/ยฏ
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 5, 2017 23:36:57 GMT -5
I think that the whole "'opressed' minorities need spotlight and recognition" completely defeats the entire thing the people who say this stand for. You seem to be standing for equality clearly, but despite that, you are trying to give lgbt+ more recognition than straight and cis people. In other words, you are trying to give them more privileges. That doesn't seem equal to me at all. Equality works in both ways.
It's the same as when feminists say that men should always agree with them and such, because they feel 'threatened' when a man disagrees. It completely defeats what they stand for.
You won't achieve equality by giving one side more privileges than the other one. You are treating lgbt+ as something that needs more recognition. If you really want equality, then treat it as if it was a completely normal thing that doesn't need spotlight or recognition.
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Post by December on Jun 5, 2017 23:56:53 GMT -5
Me: You know, I don't personally think straight people need to display pride flags as allies, but I suppose they're not harming anyone.
The Heterosexuals: Um sweaty it's not true justice unless we ALL get it. :/ You gays don't get to be special if you want REAL equality. Where's MY ally flag?
Me: Wow, I can't believe it's All Straights are Cancelled Month already!
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Post by Gengar on Jun 6, 2017 0:05:19 GMT -5
thats tru.
being an ally isn't about getting recognized for said support of LGBTQ+
that said, can't exactly force anyone not to put a flag on their profile.
but if you're identifying other LGBTQ+ people with it, you could also see allies using it as like "hey I'm a safe person to talk to about your sexuality" |
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Post by Gengar on Jun 6, 2017 0:11:04 GMT -5
opacity: 1
edit: I meANT 0 |
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Post by December on Jun 6, 2017 0:11:21 GMT -5
thats tru.
being an ally isn't about getting recognized for said support of LGBTQ+
that said, can't exactly force anyone not to put a flag on their profile.
but if you're identifying other LGBTQ+ people with it, you could also see allies using it as like "hey I'm a safe person to talk to about your sexuality" Fair, but why would I rather talk to a straight person about my sexuality when there are plenty of forumers who aren't straight and would be better able to relate to my experiences? |
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 6, 2017 0:13:31 GMT -5
Me: You know, I don't personally think straight people need to display pride flags as allies, but I suppose they're not harming anyone. The Heterosexuals: Um sweaty it's not true justice unless we ALL get it. :/ You gays don't get to be special if you want REAL equality. Where's MY ally flag? Me: Wow, I can't believe it's All Straights are Cancelled Month already! If you're refering to me, I'm not hererosexual. I'm saying all I did as apart of lgbt+. |
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Post by December on Jun 6, 2017 0:14:39 GMT -5
Me: You know, I don't personally think straight people need to display pride flags as allies, but I suppose they're not harming anyone. The Heterosexuals: Um sweaty it's not true justice unless we ALL get it. :/ You gays don't get to be special if you want REAL equality. Where's MY ally flag? Me: Wow, I can't believe it's All Straights are Cancelled Month already! If you're refering to me, I'm not hererosexual. I'm saying all I did as apart of lgbt+. Multiple posts expressed similar sentiments, so no, it wasn't one individual person. I didn't mean to come across like I was invalidating your identity or anything, though. |
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Post by Gengar on Jun 6, 2017 0:14:58 GMT -5
thats tru.
being an ally isn't about getting recognized for said support of LGBTQ+
that said, can't exactly force anyone not to put a flag on their profile.
but if you're identifying other LGBTQ+ people with it, you could also see allies using it as like "hey I'm a safe person to talk to about your sexuality" Fair, but why would I rather talk to a straight person about my sexuality when there are plenty of forumers who aren't straight and would be better able to relate to my experiences? touche.
I meant it more of a "talk about it around them"
or if you just have a problem and they're your friend?
there could be many situations
plus, I mean, I'm all for more pretty rainbows everywhere |
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 6, 2017 0:17:44 GMT -5
If you're refering to me, I'm not hererosexual. I'm saying all I did as apart of lgbt+. Multiple posts expressed similar sentiments, so no, it wasn't one individual person. I didn't mean to come across like I was invalidating your identity or anything, though. My point was that I don't see why LGBT+ should be treated as anything special. Because, if you want equality, then why don't you treat LGBT+ and non-LGBT+ equally? I'm not invalidating anything, I just want an explanation. |
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Post by Gengar on Jun 6, 2017 0:24:17 GMT -5
Multiple posts expressed similar sentiments, so no, it wasn't one individual person. I didn't mean to come across like I was invalidating your identity or anything, though. My point was that I don't see why LGBT+ should be treated as anything special. Because, if you want equality, then why don't you treat LGBT+ and non-LGBT+ equally? I'm not invalidating anything, I just want an explanation. i don't know if this would be December 's response, but a big reason for pride month in general is that heteronormativity is still really rampant. celebrating and recognizing LGBTQ+ people can help lessen that, to an extent. another reason is to boost awareness. I'm sad to say that a lot of people still don't know about sexualities other than gay and straight, or etc. having the flags might encourage people to be like "hey, what's that flag mean?" and look it up or ask and become more informed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 0:25:45 GMT -5
I just want at least one month to my little gay self. I don't wanna see any "good uwu ally" straighties for once.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 0:27:13 GMT -5
Also like if you're cishet I'm.. not going to listen to your opinion on using the rainbow flag as a "support" one. Thanks.
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Post by December on Jun 6, 2017 0:30:40 GMT -5
Multiple posts expressed similar sentiments, so no, it wasn't one individual person. I didn't mean to come across like I was invalidating your identity or anything, though. My point was that I don't see why LGBT+ should be treated as anything special. Because, if you want equality, then why don't you treat LGBT+ and non-LGBT+ equally? I'm not invalidating anything, I just want an explanation. LGBT people didn't choose to be different, though. That's my thing. We were branded as "other," and we've responded by learning to celebrate that in the face of our oppression. And the thing is, dropping "special" stuff like pride won't change the fact that consensual activity between two people of the same gender is punishable by death in seven countries and illegal in general in around seventy. It won't change the fact that trans women are about 4.3 times as likely to get murdered as their cis counterparts. It won't change the fact that seventeen states don't protect LGBT people from any kind of discrimination, and many others don't consistently protect people based on orientation and gender identity. It won't change the fact that LGBT youth are at a heightened risk for homelessness, substance abuse problems, and suicide. I could go on, but I'm tired, and you get it, so I won't. The point is, if we stop celebrating our identities, the world isn't going to magically stop mistreating us. It's not. So to answer your question, we're not standing in our own way when it comes to equality, and we never have been. |
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 6, 2017 0:56:44 GMT -5
My point was that I don't see why LGBT+ should be treated as anything special. Because, if you want equality, then why don't you treat LGBT+ and non-LGBT+ equally? I'm not invalidating anything, I just want an explanation. LGBT people didn't choose to be different, though. That's my thing. We were branded as "other," and we've responded by learning to celebrate that in the face of our oppression. And the thing is, dropping "special" stuff like pride won't change the fact that consensual activity between two people of the same gender is punishable by death in seven countries and illegal in general in around seventy. It won't change the fact that trans women are about 4.3 times as likely to get murdered as their cis counterparts. It won't change the fact that seventeen states don't protect LGBT people from any kind of discrimination, and many others don't consistently protect people based on orientation and gender identity. It won't change the fact that LGBT youth are at a heightened risk for homelessness, substance abuse problems, and suicide. I could go on, but I'm tired, and you get it, so I won't. The point is, if we stop celebrating our identities, the world isn't going to magically stop mistreating us. It's not. So to answer your question, we're not standing in our own way when it comes to equality, and we never have been. I see your point. However, what WILL it change? I'm not saying drop your pride, but why shouldn't straight people have their 'pride' too? When someone says that they are proud to be heterosexual, they are branded as homophobic. Again I don't mind LGBT+ pride or pride flags, but if LGBT+ is allowed to have them, cis and straight people should to. |
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Post by December on Jun 6, 2017 0:59:38 GMT -5
LGBT people didn't choose to be different, though. That's my thing. We were branded as "other," and we've responded by learning to celebrate that in the face of our oppression. And the thing is, dropping "special" stuff like pride won't change the fact that consensual activity between two people of the same gender is punishable by death in seven countries and illegal in general in around seventy. It won't change the fact that trans women are about 4.3 times as likely to get murdered as their cis counterparts. It won't change the fact that seventeen states don't protect LGBT people from any kind of discrimination, and many others don't consistently protect people based on orientation and gender identity. It won't change the fact that LGBT youth are at a heightened risk for homelessness, substance abuse problems, and suicide. I could go on, but I'm tired, and you get it, so I won't. The point is, if we stop celebrating our identities, the world isn't going to magically stop mistreating us. It's not. So to answer your question, we're not standing in our own way when it comes to equality, and we never have been. I see your point. However, what WILL it change? I'm not saying drop your pride, but why shouldn't straight people have their 'pride' too? When someone says that they are proud to be heterosexual, they are branded as homophobic. Again I don't mind LGBT+ pride or pride flags, but if LGBT+ is allowed to have them, cis and straight people should to. Okay, let me ask you this: what have cishet people done to be proud of? And by that I mean like, collectively, as a group. What have they faced? What have they overcome? What justifies giving them a flag, other than the vague notion of being "nice" and "fair"? The flags symbolize struggle as much as they symbolize joy. We have them because we earned them, because we fought for them, because we had to be proud to survive. But cishets have always survived - at least concerning their gender/sexuality, anyway. |
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 6, 2017 1:00:08 GMT -5
My point was that I don't see why LGBT+ should be treated as anything special. Because, if you want equality, then why don't you treat LGBT+ and non-LGBT+ equally? I'm not invalidating anything, I just want an explanation. i don't know if this would be December 's response, but a big reason for pride month in general is that heteronormativity is still really rampant. celebrating and recognizing LGBTQ+ people can help lessen that, to an extent. another reason is to boost awareness. I'm sad to say that a lot of people still don't know about sexualities other than gay and straight, or etc. having the flags might encourage people to be like "hey, what's that flag mean?" and look it up or ask and become more informed. Like I said before, pride flags and such are completely fine. But they shouldn't be a privilege only LGBT+ people have. |
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Post by pastelpills on Jun 6, 2017 1:02:39 GMT -5
I see your point. However, what WILL it change? I'm not saying drop your pride, but why shouldn't straight people have their 'pride' too? When someone says that they are proud to be heterosexual, they are branded as homophobic. Again I don't mind LGBT+ pride or pride flags, but if LGBT+ is allowed to have them, cis and straight people should to. Okay, let me ask you this: what have cishet people done to be proud of? And by that I mean like, collectively, as a group. What have they faced? What have they overcome? What justifies giving them a flag, other than the vague notion of being "nice" and "fair"? The flags symbolize struggle as much as they symbolize joy. We have them because we earned them, because we fought for them, because we had to be proud to survive. But cishets have always survived - at least concerning their gender/sexuality, anyway. As someone who hasn't come out yet, I suppose I don't know the struggle you're talking about, however, I do have homophobic grandparents so I can relate. My point is, you are acting like LGBT+ makes you something more. At the end of the day, I see it as we are all humans, and you probably think I'm against equality or something, when I'm really not. Let's agree to disagree? |
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Post by December on Jun 6, 2017 1:08:30 GMT -5
Okay, let me ask you this: what have cishet people done to be proud of? And by that I mean like, collectively, as a group. What have they faced? What have they overcome? What justifies giving them a flag, other than the vague notion of being "nice" and "fair"? The flags symbolize struggle as much as they symbolize joy. We have them because we earned them, because we fought for them, because we had to be proud to survive. But cishets have always survived - at least concerning their gender/sexuality, anyway. As someone who hasn't come out yet, I suppose I don't know the struggle you're talking about, however, I do have homophobic grandparents so I can relate. My point is, you are acting like LGBT+ makes you something more. At the end of the day, I see it as we are all humans, and you probably think I'm against equality or something, when I'm really not. Let's agree to disagree? I mean, I'm really not acting like anything. All I'm saying is that LGBT people have faced things that cishets haven't, which is, at this point, just a fact. I'm sure I could pull one of the local WCF homophobes on here, and they would at least agree to that. I'm chill with dropping it, because I think your mindset and my mindset aren't even remotely compatible here, tbh. I'm looking big picture, historical context, social status, oppressive systems, and you're looking at like, whose feelings are hurt by not getting a flag. I'm not really sure we're gonna see eye-to-eye. For the record, I think it's fine to personally not see your orientation as an important part of your identity, but it's important to a lot of people - on both sides of the issue. I didn't really choose to be passionate about something as mundane as liking girls, but when there are literally people out there who hate me for it and want me to get hurt because of it? Idk, it caught my interest. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:14:52 GMT -5
LGBT people didn't choose to be different, though. That's my thing. We were branded as "other," and we've responded by learning to celebrate that in the face of our oppression. And the thing is, dropping "special" stuff like pride won't change the fact that consensual activity between two people of the same gender is punishable by death in seven countries and illegal in general in around seventy. It won't change the fact that trans women are about 4.3 times as likely to get murdered as their cis counterparts. It won't change the fact that seventeen states don't protect LGBT people from any kind of discrimination, and many others don't consistently protect people based on orientation and gender identity. It won't change the fact that LGBT youth are at a heightened risk for homelessness, substance abuse problems, and suicide. I could go on, but I'm tired, and you get it, so I won't. The point is, if we stop celebrating our identities, the world isn't going to magically stop mistreating us. It's not. So to answer your question, we're not standing in our own way when it comes to equality, and we never have been. I see your point. However, what WILL it change? I'm not saying drop your pride, but why shouldn't straight people have their 'pride' too? When someone says that they are proud to be heterosexual, they are branded as homophobic. Again I don't mind LGBT+ pride or pride flags, but if LGBT+ is allowed to have them, cis and straight people should to. Straight (or more specifically, cis straights) people shouldn't have "pride" because they're not oppressed. They're not killed simply for existing. They're not denied jobs just because they're not cishet. You get the point. You don't need to be "proud" of being hetero. You'd think not being a minority group would be good enough for the cishets but they gotta go ahead and say they belong in our Pride. |
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Post by Aku on Jun 6, 2017 1:33:36 GMT -5
I see your point. However, what WILL it change? I'm not saying drop your pride, but why shouldn't straight people have their 'pride' too? When someone says that they are proud to be heterosexual, they are branded as homophobic. Again I don't mind LGBT+ pride or pride flags, but if LGBT+ is allowed to have them, cis and straight people should to. Straight (or more specifically, cis straights) people shouldn't have "pride" because they're not oppressed. They're not killed simply for existing. They're not denied jobs just because they're not cishet. You get the point. You don't need to be "proud" of being hetero. You'd think not being a minority group would be good enough for the cishets but they gotta go ahead and say they belong in our Pride. Wait, hold up. I have yet to see a cis straight person say they belong in our pride. They just want to also take pride in their sexuality, based on what I've seen, and that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Everyone should have the right to take pride in their sexuality regardless of what past experiences they've had for their sexuality. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:37:15 GMT -5
Straight (or more specifically, cis straights) people shouldn't have "pride" because they're not oppressed. They're not killed simply for existing. They're not denied jobs just because they're not cishet. You get the point. You don't need to be "proud" of being hetero. You'd think not being a minority group would be good enough for the cishets but they gotta go ahead and say they belong in our Pride. Wait, hold up. I have yet to see a cis straight person say they belong in our pride. They just want to also take pride in their sexuality, based on what I've seen, and that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Everyone should have the right to take pride in their sexuality regardless of what past experiences they've had for their sexuality. Do they really need to show their "pride" in our pride month? They have the other 11 months. |
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Post by Aku on Jun 6, 2017 1:50:53 GMT -5
Wait, hold up. I have yet to see a cis straight person say they belong in our pride. They just want to also take pride in their sexuality, based on what I've seen, and that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Everyone should have the right to take pride in their sexuality regardless of what past experiences they've had for their sexuality. Do they really need to show their "pride" in our pride month? They have the other 11 months. If you're referring to people wanting straight flags/sashes then it's probably because they were introduced this month so the topic is still very fresh. As stated above, I haven't seen a single straight cis person who wanted to "hijack" our pride month. All I've seen are people who would also like to take pride in themselves or show support for us and I have no problem with that. Also, I genuinely don't understand what you mean by "pride." Could you please clarify a bit more? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:52:34 GMT -5
That escalated quickly 2
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:54:41 GMT -5
Do they really need to show their "pride" in our pride month? They have the other 11 months. If you're referring to people wanting straight flags/sashes then it's probably because they were introduced this month so the topic is still very fresh. As stated above, I haven't seen a single straight cis person who wanted to "hijack" our pride month. All I've seen are people who would also like to take pride in themselves or show support for us and I have no problem with that. Also, I genuinely don't understand what you mean by "pride." Could you please clarify a bit more? If they really wanted to "show support" for us they'd let us have a single month. Every "straight pride/ally" flag is essentially just "I desperately want to seem like I'm a good ally!! Give me points for doing the bare minimum!!" And I'm not gonna clarify when you keep on using the term yourself. Why explain something you clearly already know about. Also.. "pride in themselves"... can the straights just shut up for once fjdksfjksd |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:55:22 GMT -5
Thank you for your unneeded commentary! I appreciate it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:57:39 GMT -5
Thank you for your unneeded commentary! I appreciate it. You are forever welcome! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 1:59:15 GMT -5
Thank you for your unneeded commentary! I appreciate it. You are forever welcome! No problem! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 2:00:58 GMT -5
No it's my pleasure! Never challenge the master of sarcasm} |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 2:02:04 GMT -5
No it's my pleasure! Never challenge the master of sarcasm} But I must show my gratitude! |
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