|
Post by Woofzie on Oct 19, 2016 4:26:50 GMT -5
Spied? Where and when? She discovered so much information in the DF and actually never said anything to anyone. I find Dovewing and Jayfeather more useful, tbh.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 19, 2016 4:58:45 GMT -5
So I accidentaly deleted my post up there. Like I said, I have to reread OOTS.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 6:07:24 GMT -5
I don't know what was stated in the original post, but I feel like Ivypool recieves too much credit. She never really did anything so I don't understand why she is praised so much. She never told any information, and she never bothered teaching battle moves until the very second before the battle. If she and the others had informed the leaders long before, the Clans could have been more prepapred and perhaps more lives could have been saved.
Ivypool was as good as a spy as Briarlight is good at running. She's not.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 19, 2016 6:32:50 GMT -5
I don't know what was stated in the original post, but I feel like Ivypool recieves too much credit. She never really did anything so I don't understand why she is praised so much. She never told any information, and she never bothered teaching battle moves until the very second before the battle. If she and the others had informed the leaders long before, the Clans could have been more prepapred and perhaps more lives could have been saved. Ivypool was as good as a spy as Briarlight is good at running. She's not. I actually posted this topic before thinking about it, and now I want to delete it. But I can't.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 19, 2016 12:07:27 GMT -5
Dovewing didn't do crap, though. Why give her credit for nothing? Jayfeather and Ivypool did the most.
|
|
|
Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Oct 19, 2016 13:59:21 GMT -5
Jayfeather kept the prophecy regarding the Fourth secret until StarClan forced him to confess, but I never see anyone bashing him for it. Then again, he was the most helpful out of all of the protagonists, aside from that incident.
Ivypool shouldn't have withheld so much valuable information, but she had her reasons. Not good reasons, but reasons.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 19, 2016 14:02:41 GMT -5
Ivypool gets way too much credit already.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 19, 2016 14:14:12 GMT -5
Dovewing didn't do crap, though. Why give her credit for nothing? Jayfeather and Ivypool did the most. Maybe not during the battle, but Dovewing actually did do a lot for her Clan. Using her powers, she was one of the best hunters in the Clan, was the one who spotted the beavers and discovered that they were the ones who were causing the drought, saved many of her Clanmates by reporting that a beech tree was about fall, saved Icecloud when the latter fell down one of the tunnels, and managed to find out where Sorreltail was when the latter was giving birth. She also managed to see and hear all the way to the Dark Forest and reported what they were up to.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 14:44:43 GMT -5
Dovewing didn't do crap, though. Why give her credit for nothing? Jayfeather and Ivypool did the most. Maybe not during the battle, but Dovewing actually did do a lot for her Clan. Using her powers, she was one of the best hunters in the Clan, was the one who spotted the beavers and discovered that they were the ones who were causing the drought, saved many of her Clanmates by reporting that a beech tree was about fall, saved Icecloud when the latter fell down one of the tunnels, and managed to find out where Sorreltail was when the latter was giving birth. She also managed to see and hear all the way to the Dark Forest and reported what they were up to. Which is funny because it was Ivypool's job to report the Dark Forest, not Dovewing. Ivypool didn't do jack squat for her "spying". I don't understand why people are mad at Dovewing for looking out into the Dark Forest, and blaming her because Ivypool was getting hurt. Ivypool couldn't even escape the Dark Forest at this point. That isn't her sister's fault. And Ivypool should have been reporting news like she promised, but she didn't. And even if she did, it was at the last minute, right before the battle. Nice timing, Ivyfool. Your sister did the job for you and it wasn't even her responsibility.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 19, 2016 15:17:10 GMT -5
I don't count the beavers, no one should really. And she wouldn't be that good of a hunter without her powers. If she was so worried about Ivypool, why not try to hear into it?
Ivypool could have also held back information to find more. Plus she could have been given false information and if it was found out what she told the Three was false, she'd be in trouble either way. I don't get why people try to defend Dumbwing with the little stuff. Ivypool changed the right by convincing the Thunder trainees to fight for the Clans.
Dumbwing still didn't do that much. Not going to change my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 15:59:28 GMT -5
I don't count the beavers, no one should really. And she wouldn't be that good of a hunter without her powers. If she was so worried about Ivypool, why not try to hear into it?
Ivypool could have also held back information to find more. Plus she could have been given false information and if it was found out what she told the Three was false, she'd be in trouble either way. I don't get why people try to defend Dumbwing with the little stuff. Ivypool changed the right by convincing the Thunder trainees to fight for the Clans.
Dumbwing still didn't do that much. Not going to change my mind. Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's.
|
|
|
|
Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Oct 19, 2016 18:16:32 GMT -5
At least Ivypool had SOME reason to withhhold information. She was afraid; she knew what the Dark Forest was capable of. For instance, after Beetlewhisker was brutally killed, she, Breezepelt, and Applefur where told this.
Brokenstar wasn't referring to the Clans themselves, only the Dark Forest trainees. However, Ivypool had experienced firsthand their newfound ability to travel through Clan territory. She probably connected the dots and figured that this would apply if she informed ThunderClan of the happenings in the Dark Forest, even more severely. Ivypool didn't know the full extent of the Dark Forest's magic, and she figured that there was a chance they could find out somehow.
Ivypool had another reason for not revealing which Clan cats were training in the Forest:
As stated here, Ivypool was hesitant to spill the beans, because she didn't want to falsely condemn her own Clanmates, her friend, and her father. Obviously, this decision was extremely risky, but it was also understandable. Heck, Jayfeather even defended her position!
In my opinion, Ivypool shouldn't have held back so much information, but her motivations and reasons were understandable and valid.
|
|
|
Post by Windspirit14 on Oct 19, 2016 18:25:04 GMT -5
I think all of them are overrated, but they all did something.
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 19, 2016 20:21:45 GMT -5
The thing is though, Dovewing couldn't do the majority of those things if not for her powers.
On the other hand Ivypool's job as a spy, literally the whole point, was to find out their plans. A lot of people seem to forget that they didn't reveal their plans until the last second. And the whole time she was there she did try to figure it out, like the time she tried to spy on the upper cats and their meetings, or when she went to see the map they drew in the ground. She also kept trying to gain their trust so they'd let her in on their plans, and had to prove herself constantly until they trusted her. Even when they chose the four cats to lead the living cats, they still didn't tell them their plans. And when they did find out, Beetlewhisker was murdered. Ivypool was putting her life in danger every time she went to that place, even though she didn't want to go back after finding out the horrible truth about those cats. It wasn't her idea to spy, let alone show any desire either. When she did find out their plans, like everyone else, she warned the clan asap. But she didn't tell who the other trainees were, I personally also agree with her on this. Because cats like Lionblaze were calling them traitors without even knowing everything about their situation.
|
|
|
Post by tiger beetle on Oct 19, 2016 20:28:40 GMT -5
I feel like
the fandom is split between people who give Ivypool too much credit and people who give her no credit at all
I think her general decision to continue training, see who was there, find out important plans, etc. was on the right track, and that it took a decent amount of bravery to at least try to not be sucked into it all; I think she did sacrifice (at the very least) her sense of personal safety, and I can see why she wouldn't tell them who the other trainees were, considering she fell for it too at one point
but on the other hand, although she did try very hard to keep it secret that she was officially spying on them, she really didn't do much at all to try to find out their plans; she never tried to show off, get in good with Hawkfrost as a full warrior, anything like that, and I think she should at least have tried to show her other Clanmates the special fighting moves and (once they were practicing them) "invent" the way to defend against them when they are used against her in a sparring match*
so…I think she deserves a little credit for what she wanted to do, the effort it took to keep her head and remain loyal to ThunderClan, and the fact that she at least managed to turn most of the trainees back to the Clans right at the very end, but I feel like most of the people who do give her credit give her way more than she's earned?
*like… Ivypool shows them a DF move under the pretense of showing off her skill they have a sparring session a cat uses the move on Ivypool Ivypool defends against it, thereby demonstrating how without outright teaching them
|
|
|
Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Oct 19, 2016 21:58:41 GMT -5
I feel like the fandom is split between people who give Ivypool too much credit and people who give her no credit at all I think her general decision to continue training, see who was there, find out important plans, etc. was on the right track, and that it took a decent amount of bravery to at least try to not be sucked into it all; I think she did sacrifice (at the very least) her sense of personal safety, and I can see why she wouldn't tell them who the other trainees were, considering she fell for it too at one point but on the other hand, although she did try very hard to keep it secret that she was officially spying on them, she really didn't do much at all to try to find out their plans; she never tried to show off, get in good with Hawkfrost as a full warrior, anything like that, and I think she should at least have tried to show her other Clanmates the special fighting moves and (once they were practicing them) "invent" the way to defend against them when they are used against her in a sparring match* so…I think she deserves a little credit for what she wanted to do, the effort it took to keep her head and remain loyal to ThunderClan, and the fact that she at least managed to turn most of the trainees back to the Clans right at the very end, but I feel like most of the people who do give her credit give her way more than she's earned? *like… Ivypool shows them a DF move under the pretense of showing off her skill they have a sparring session a cat uses the move on Ivypool Ivypool defends against it, thereby demonstrating how without outright teaching them But she did. Remember when she wanted to be invited to their meetings, and even after she proved herself, they told her no. Mapleshade even got in her face about it, and how she still didn't trust her. So yeah Ivypool did go out of her way to try and impress them and prove that she was worthy enough, heck she killed Antpelt twice to get their trust.
|
|
|
Post by tiger beetle on Oct 19, 2016 22:26:22 GMT -5
guess I forgot that scene; sorry
I remember the bit about trust with Antpelt but I thought that was more of a sudden "hey we want you to do this for us" thing so I'm also sorry if I was wrong about that
I still feel like most people who give her credit tend to give her more than she earned, but like I said I do think she deserves more than nothing
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 19, 2016 23:09:33 GMT -5
I don't count the beavers, no one should really. And she wouldn't be that good of a hunter without her powers. If she was so worried about Ivypool, why not try to hear into it?
Ivypool could have also held back information to find more. Plus she could have been given false information and if it was found out what she told the Three was false, she'd be in trouble either way. I don't get why people try to defend Dumbwing with the little stuff. Ivypool changed the right by convincing the Thunder trainees to fight for the Clans.
Dumbwing still didn't do that much. Not going to change my mind. Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's. But without Dumbwing's powers, she couldn't do have the crap she did. This is exactly why people side with Ivypool. Dumbwing supporters shove her accomplishments in their faces and act like she's done so much she deserves a medal. In reality, she couldn't do anything without her powers. Ivypool did more than Dumbwing. She actually rallied trainees together and risked her life. I'm referring to Maplefrost's post now since it also includes other thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 23:19:48 GMT -5
Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's. But without Dumbwing's powers, she couldn't do have the crap she did. This is exactly why people side with Ivypool. Dumbwing supporters shove her accomplishments in their faces and act like she's done so much she deserves a medal. In reality, she couldn't do anything without her powers. Ivypool did more than Dumbwing. She actually rallied trainees together and risked her life. I'm referring to Maplefrost's post now since it also includes other thoughts. Look, we aren't going to agree with anything, you don't like Ivypool, and I don't like Dovewing. May we end it by agree to disagree? I had a huge fight with my family just now and I am stressed out and I do not want to argue about this further, especially since I know that we will not agree to anything.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 23:20:36 GMT -5
Oops, I mean I don't like Ivypool, and you don't like Dovewing... man this is really getting to me.
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 19, 2016 23:47:58 GMT -5
But without Dumbwing's powers, she couldn't do have the crap she did. This is exactly why people side with Ivypool. Dumbwing supporters shove her accomplishments in their faces and act like she's done so much she deserves a medal. In reality, she couldn't do anything without her powers. Ivypool did more than Dumbwing. She actually rallied trainees together and risked her life. I'm referring to Maplefrost's post now since it also includes other thoughts. Look, we aren't going to agree with anything, you don't like Ivypool, and I don't like Dovewing. May we end it by agree to disagree? I had a huge fight with my family just now and I am stressed out and I do not want to argue about this further, especially since I know that we will not agree to anything. Go take a break. Read a book or something. I hope you feel better soon, Aqua.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 23:50:56 GMT -5
Look, we aren't going to agree with anything, you don't like Ivypool, and I don't like Dovewing. May we end it by agree to disagree? I had a huge fight with my family just now and I am stressed out and I do not want to argue about this further, especially since I know that we will not agree to anything. Go take a break. Read a book or something. I hope you feel better soon, Aqua. I may animate. Thanks for respecting me about it though, even if our argument was a little tense and we're completely insulting our favorite characters, lol. I thought it was a little amusing tbh when we called Dovewing "Dumbwing" and Ivypool "Ivyfool".
|
|
Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
|
Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 19, 2016 23:58:55 GMT -5
Go take a break. Read a book or something. I hope you feel better soon, Aqua. I may animate. Thanks for respecting me about it though, even if our argument was a little tense and we're completely insulting our favorite characters, lol. I thought it was a little amusing tbh when we called Dovewing "Dumbwing" and Ivypool "Ivyfool". Well, it was going nowhere and I didn't want to add onto more stress.
Once I saw you called Ivypool "Ivyfool" I decided to pull the same. xD Good luck with animating, it's difficult.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 20, 2016 0:01:05 GMT -5
I don't count the beavers, no one should really. And she wouldn't be that good of a hunter without her powers. If she was so worried about Ivypool, why not try to hear into it?
Ivypool could have also held back information to find more. Plus she could have been given false information and if it was found out what she told the Three was false, she'd be in trouble either way. I don't get why people try to defend Dumbwing with the little stuff. Ivypool changed the right by convincing the Thunder trainees to fight for the Clans.
Dumbwing still didn't do that much. Not going to change my mind. Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's. But if your sister would finally notice you and suddenly would be called by someone higher ranked, wouldn't you be kind of mad as well? I mean your sister goes away every time you want to talk to her. I find it pretty hypocritical saying Ivypool's pov is cliché and not that good, wen Dumbwing who you are defending has about 0 character traits. Like what can you say about her personality? More mature way? Trying to use the biggest force of the world you are in and getting exiled is more mature way?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:04:17 GMT -5
Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's. But without Dumbwing's powers, she couldn't do have the crap she did. This is exactly why people side with Ivypool. Dumbwing supporters shove her accomplishments in their faces and act like she's done so much she deserves a medal. In reality, she couldn't do anything without her powers. Ivypool did more than Dumbwing. She actually rallied trainees together and risked her life. I'm referring to Maplefrost's post now since it also includes other thoughts. What difference does it make if she has powers or not? She still saved so many lives with them, and that's the whole point And that's why she was given them in the first place. The prophecy was made so the Clans could be saved and that's what she did. I don't deny that the Three were overhyped and could have done more in the battle, but the things Dovewing did outside the battle were still important nonetheless and it doesn't matter if her powers helped her or not. And I don't disgree that Dovewing is a poorly developed character. But in terms of the plot she did more than Ivypool when it comes to saving the Clans. What did Ivypool do besides go to the Dark Forest and learn battle moves? Nothing, really. People don't think Ivypool deserves credit because she waited until the very last second. She spent the first three books defending the Dark Forest, and then when she finally realized they were bad she still did nothing until half way through the Last Hope. Sure, she agreed to spy, but spying doesn't do anything if you don't give any information out. The Clans could have been preparing for this battle since Sign of the Moon, possibly even Night Whispers. They could have been so well prepared for this battle if they had just know better. So many lives could have been saved if she had actually done what she was supposed to do and speak up sooner. Honestly all Ivypool did was trick the Dark Forest into trusting her by doing everything they wanted, and then she turned on them in battle just like many of the Dark Forest trainee cats did.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:14:45 GMT -5
Dovewing just didn't save lives from the beavers, though. She saved lives of other cats too. -She saved Icecloud - She saved more cats from being crushed by the tree I know there are more, but I can't really remember right now. My mind's blank. But Dovewing did try to hear her sister out. However, every time she did, she was called by Lionblaze and Firestar. And when she tried to return to her sister, Ivyfool ignored her. Yes, Ivyfool ignored HER. Dovewing actually wanted them to be friends; she begged Jayfeather to tell her sister about the prophecy but he said no. She tried to be close to her sister and she was worried. Why do you think they argued a lot? Because she was worried about Ivypool being in the Dark Forest. She even said to Jay and Lion that she isn't stopping Ivypool because she might get found out, but because she'll get killed. Ivyfool is overrated. We also try to look at other's POV instead of Ivyfool's. That's why we defend Dovewing over "little things" because people tend ignore people's POVs if they feel sorry enough for the other character. Ivyfool is overrated, with cliché jealousy development. We had so many cats already who went through jealousy. While Ivyfool's development was okay, she could have been written better. There are so many characters who went through jealousy like Princess Luna from MLP:FiM. I am comparing her because her story is very similar compared to the Warriors story. But at least Luna handled it in a more mature way, while Ivyfool was just unbearable. You just have to look from all POVs, not just Ivyfool's. But if your sister would finally notice you and suddenly would be called by someone higher ranked, wouldn't you be kind of mad as well? I mean your sister goes away every time you want to talk to her. I find it pretty hypocritical saying Ivypool's pov is cliché and not that good, wen Dumbwing who you are defending has about 0 character traits. Like what can you say about her personality? More mature way? Trying to use the biggest force of the world you are in and getting exiled is more mature way? I am done arguing about this.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:15:32 GMT -5
And no I wouldn't, because I don't care about popularity, I only care that they're friends with me, don't compare my feelings to a fictional character's, please.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 20, 2016 0:16:19 GMT -5
But without Dumbwing's powers, she couldn't do have the crap she did. This is exactly why people side with Ivypool. Dumbwing supporters shove her accomplishments in their faces and act like she's done so much she deserves a medal. In reality, she couldn't do anything without her powers. Ivypool did more than Dumbwing. She actually rallied trainees together and risked her life. I'm referring to Maplefrost's post now since it also includes other thoughts. What difference does it make if she has powers or not? She still saved so many lives with them, and that's the whole point And that's why she was given them in the first place. The prophecy was made so the Clans could be saved and that's what she did. I don't deny that the Three were overhyped and could have done more in the battle, but the things Dovewing did outside the battle were still important nonetheless and it doesn't matter if her powers helped her or not. And I don't disgree that Dovewing is a poorly developed character. But in terms of the plot she did more than Ivypool when it comes to saving the Clans. What did Ivypool do besides go to the Dark Forest and learn battle moves? Nothing, really. People don't think Ivypool deserves credit because she waited until the very last second. She spent the first three books defending the Dark Forest, and then when she finally realized they were bad she still did nothing until half way through the Last Hope. Sure, she agreed to spy, but spying doesn't do anything if you don't give any information out. The Clans could have been preparing for this battle since Sign of the Moon, possibly even Night Whispers. They could have been so well prepared for this battle if they had just know better. So many lives could have been saved if she had actually done what she was supposed to do and speak up sooner. Honestly all Ivypool did was trick the Dark Forest into trusting her by doing everything they wanted, and then she turned on them in battle just like many of the Dark Forest trainee cats did. But there were valid reasons for her not to spill the information. She was scared for her own life, and that Lionblaze and the rest will call everyone traitors. She wanted to protect her clanmates in a way, and she did spill the information after all. She just had bad timing.
|
|
|
Post by pastelpills on Oct 20, 2016 0:16:49 GMT -5
And no I wouldn't, because I don't care about popularity, I only care that they're friends with me, don't compare my feelings to a fictional character's, please. [brSorry I guess?
|
|