#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 4, 2016 10:30:02 GMT -5
Apparently Russetfur never had any kits.
"I can already tell you that Russetfur didn't have kits at all and I know you don't like this thought. She was a very determined warrior and deputy and had no time to take care of kits.
I know we saw that both is possible when Squirrelflight had kits and still took care of her duties, but as we know that is more of an exception that does not often happen.
Female deputys and leaders are normally not supposed to have kits."
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Post by pastelpills on Oct 4, 2016 11:06:44 GMT -5
I dont like RussetXBlack anyways, even though I would wish Russetfur was mother.
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Post by *Faith* on Oct 4, 2016 11:17:38 GMT -5
Both Squirrelflight and Leafstar were exceptions to this rule. But, yeah. I wonder if Blackstar ever fathered had any kits then. She only said that Russetfur was never a mother, not that Blackstar was never a father. People will just have to pick a new mate. Or there are always fan fictions as well. XD
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Post by nem on Oct 4, 2016 12:28:58 GMT -5
Someone here has a headcanon that Snowbird and Ratscar are the son and daughter of Blackstar.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 4, 2016 12:33:38 GMT -5
Someone here has a headcanon that Snowbird and Ratscar are the son and daughter of Blackstar. Yeah, I've noticed that theory on other websites too, like deviantart for instance. |
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Post by kinkajou on Oct 4, 2016 16:34:02 GMT -5
Well that doesn't confirm BlackxRusset was never a thing
I ship it but I can not see Russetfur being a queen. She kinda seems like the type who doesn't like kits too much
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Post by andy on Oct 4, 2016 16:44:19 GMT -5
I don't really mind that Russetfur didn't have kits, but the "she-cats that are deputies and leaders aren't supposed to have kits" thing is incredibly stupid and sexist.
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Post by Cloudshadow on Oct 4, 2016 17:09:37 GMT -5
I don't really mind that Russetfur didn't have kits, but the "she-cats that are deputies and leaders aren't supposed to have kits" thing is incredibly stupid and sexist. It's not really sexist, it's a matter of practicality. Males don't have to take time out to care for their kits, therefore can have kits while deputy or leader. She-cats generally need to spend most of their time caring for their kits at least until they are weaned. Sure another queen can help but most she-cats will want to raise their own kits, that's kind of the point of having them- being able to care for them and be involved not just watch from afar. I find this unspoken rule to make plenty of sense. I was never really fond of the BlackstarcRussetfur ship, I saw them as strongly playonic friends. They've been through a lot together and are more sole mates in a different sense. I also never saw Russetfir as a cat to have kits. |
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Post by andy on Oct 4, 2016 17:25:27 GMT -5
I don't really mind that Russetfur didn't have kits, but the "she-cats that are deputies and leaders aren't supposed to have kits" thing is incredibly stupid and sexist. It's not really sexist, it's a matter of practicality. Males don't have to take time out to care for their kits, therefore can have kits while deputy or leader. She-cats generally need to spend most of their time caring for their kits at least until they are weaned. Sure another queen can help but most she-cats will want to raise their own kits, that's kind of the point of having them- being able to care for them and be involved not just watch from afar. I find this unspoken rule to make plenty of sense. I was never really fond of the BlackstarcRussetfur ship, I saw them as strongly playonic friends. They've been through a lot together and are more sole mates in a different sense. I also never saw Russetfir as a cat to have kits. I think you've entirely missed the point of them being a Clan and are instead thinking about a mother with her own kittens on her own- and even then she can hunt away from them and still care for them. A Clan in warrior cats is like a family, and I see no reason why a mother needs to raise her kits like a loner with a family to support and help her. Because she is in a Clan, while she preforms her deputy or leader duties someone can be looking after her kits. And eventually the kittens wont even NEED constant supervision, especially if they're exploring the camp, where there are plenty of adults to keep an eye on them. They don't need constant coddling once they're big enough, and until they're big enough the Clan can help them. More specifically, other queens and she-cats who might find an interest. It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help. The deputy or leader could certainly take a "maternity leave" while the kittens still need milk and intense care, but even then when they aren't nursing, she could attend to her duties if she's needed. You're implying to me that a woman that has a job should not have children because of said job, which I find sexist. I'm very sorry if I'm harsh, really, I'm just tired of seeing this rule get approved of. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bluestar's Prophecy, and another reason why I don't like Erin Hunter. |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 4, 2016 17:32:16 GMT -5
Well that doesn't confirm BlackxRusset was never a thing I ship it but I can not see Russetfur being a queen. She kinda seems like the type who doesn't like kits too much Yeah, I know, and I'm not saying that it was never a thing, I'm saying they just never had any kits, or at least Russetfur didn't. But I agree, I can't see her as a queen either. |
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Post by Cloudshadow on Oct 4, 2016 18:53:09 GMT -5
It's not really sexist, it's a matter of practicality. Males don't have to take time out to care for their kits, therefore can have kits while deputy or leader. She-cats generally need to spend most of their time caring for their kits at least until they are weaned. Sure another queen can help but most she-cats will want to raise their own kits, that's kind of the point of having them- being able to care for them and be involved not just watch from afar. I find this unspoken rule to make plenty of sense. I was never really fond of the BlackstarcRussetfur ship, I saw them as strongly playonic friends. They've been through a lot together and are more sole mates in a different sense. I also never saw Russetfir as a cat to have kits. I think you've entirely missed the point of them being a Clan and are instead thinking about a mother with her own kittens on her own- and even then she can hunt away from them and still care for them. A Clan in warrior cats is like a family, and I see no reason why a mother needs to raise her kits like a loner with a family to support and help her. Because she is in a Clan, while she preforms her deputy or leader duties someone can be looking after her kits. And eventually the kittens wont even NEED constant supervision, especially if they're exploring the camp, where there are plenty of adults to keep an eye on them. They don't need constant coddling once they're big enough, and until they're big enough the Clan can help them. More specifically, other queens and she-cats who might find an interest. It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help. The deputy or leader could certainly take a "maternity leave" while the kittens still need milk and intense care, but even then when they aren't nursing, she could attend to her duties if she's needed. You're implying to me that a woman that has a job should not have children because of said job, which I find sexist. I'm very sorry if I'm harsh, really, I'm just tired of seeing this rule get approved of. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bluestar's Prophecy, and another reason why I don't like Erin Hunter. I'm well aware that the Clan is a big family that helps each other out and I never stated a mother has to raise her litter by herself. In the clans other queens always help out but helping out and putting most of the kittens care onto another queen is different. You are suggesting other cats take care of the kits while the she-cat is busy with her deputy/leadership duties but these duties aren't just organising patrols, talking to warriors in camp, etc. They involve going out on daily patrols, possibly being away for hours in there is a conflict, etc. Daily warrior duties that take up most of a cats time during the day and when she gets back in the evening she is going to be tired and need her rest if she has to keep up this lifestyle- a rest that is going to be interrupted if she has to care for her kits throughout the night. I just see it as a bit of an overload of work and stress on the she-cat. Sure, she can minimise the number of patrols she goes on and such to rest/care for the kittens but then is she fulfilling her duty to the Clan fully if she's committed to keeping her position? There may be another cat that can do the job better or to the full capacity while she is in the nursery. In the world of warriors kits are almost always under supervision, even when exploring the camp to ensure they don't get under any cats paws and make sure they stay out of trouble or run off after a patrol. It shouldn't be the warriors, medicine cats or apprentices job to do this, they're out doing their own duties. The elders could fill this though. "It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help." I think you're going a bit far here. A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice. Maternity leave would mean they are not fulfilling their duty to the clan by being there at all times. They have to treat their clan as their kits and be ready to take action at all times. Not to mention they wouldn't be as physically fit for a while after kitting. Woman in the real world DO take a break from work after they've had a child- maternity leave- so that they can care for their baby when it needs it most (most of the time anyway). Once the baby is okay to be looked after by someone else they return to their job. In the warriors world that maternity leave is the 6 moons the offspring are kits. This "maternity leave" can be altered since kits develop faster than human babies which is fine but for those few moons the queen is likely to spend most of her time caring for the kits and not doing her duties. (sorry if I sound a bit repetitive, I'm tired :/) |
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Post by andy on Oct 4, 2016 19:16:46 GMT -5
I think you've entirely missed the point of them being a Clan and are instead thinking about a mother with her own kittens on her own- and even then she can hunt away from them and still care for them. A Clan in warrior cats is like a family, and I see no reason why a mother needs to raise her kits like a loner with a family to support and help her. Because she is in a Clan, while she preforms her deputy or leader duties someone can be looking after her kits. And eventually the kittens wont even NEED constant supervision, especially if they're exploring the camp, where there are plenty of adults to keep an eye on them. They don't need constant coddling once they're big enough, and until they're big enough the Clan can help them. More specifically, other queens and she-cats who might find an interest. It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help. The deputy or leader could certainly take a "maternity leave" while the kittens still need milk and intense care, but even then when they aren't nursing, she could attend to her duties if she's needed. You're implying to me that a woman that has a job should not have children because of said job, which I find sexist. I'm very sorry if I'm harsh, really, I'm just tired of seeing this rule get approved of. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bluestar's Prophecy, and another reason why I don't like Erin Hunter. I'm well aware that the Clan is a big family that helps each other out and I never stated a mother has to raise her litter by herself. In the clans other queens always help out but helping out and putting most of the kittens care onto another queen is different. You are suggesting other cats take care of the kits while the she-cat is busy with her deputy/leadership duties but these duties aren't just organising patrols, talking to warriors in camp, etc. They involve going out on daily patrols, possibly being away for hours in there is a conflict, etc. Daily warrior duties that take up most of a cats time during the day and when she gets back in the evening she is going to be tired and need her rest if she has to keep up this lifestyle- a rest that is going to be interrupted if she has to care for her kits throughout the night. I just see it as a bit of an overload of work and stress on the she-cat. Sure, she can minimise the number of patrols she goes on and such to rest/care for the kittens but then is she fulfilling her duty to the Clan fully if she's committed to keeping her position? There may be another cat that can do the job better or to the full capacity while she is in the nursery. In the world of warriors kits are almost always under supervision, even when exploring the camp to ensure they don't get under any cats paws and make sure they stay out of trouble or run off after a patrol. It shouldn't be the warriors, medicine cats or apprentices job to do this, they're out doing their own duties. The elders could fill this though. "It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help." I think you're going a bit far here. A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice. Maternity leave would mean they are not fulfilling their duty to the clan by being there at all times. They have to treat their clan as their kits and be ready to take action at all times. Not to mention they wouldn't be as physically fit for a while after kitting. Woman in the real world DO take a break from work after they've had a child- maternity leave- so that they can care for their baby when it needs it most (most of the time anyway). Once the baby is okay to be looked after by someone else they return to their job. In the warriors world that maternity leave is the 6 moons the offspring are kits. This "maternity leave" can be altered since kits develop faster than human babies which is fine but for those few moons the queen is likely to spend most of her time caring for the kits and not doing her duties. (sorry if I sound a bit repetitive, I'm tired :/) In no way does the deputy or leader queen have to do her full work load if it stressed her out and interrupts her care for her kits, I never said she had to attend to her usual warrior duties daily as well, I was saying this to imply the she-cat is a deputy or leader doing deputy or leader duties. the patrolling and hunting duties are not deputy duties, they are warrior duties, which YES, a deputy and a leader are warriors, but they have their own specific duties. You're implying that only deputies do this, and you're also making assumptions that there might be a conflict, which yes, there certainly could be, but that does not mean that there will be. If she'll be tired out from patrolling and hunting all day, she doesn't need to do it all day. It's that simple. It's not as if she can't leave a patrol to go back. I doubt the Clan would mind, they know she has kits to look after. The kits certainly do need an eye kept on them, and that's what I said. The cats in camp would make sure to check where they are every now and then if they're outside. If there are warriors in camp that are off duty and not sleeping, I don't see why they should have a problem with watching over them? So could apprentices and medicine cats. They aren't all constantly working 24/7. Everyone gets a break. It's not that taxing to glance around for the children every now and then. The queen deputy/leader doesn't need to be replaced if she can still properly give commands to her Clan. She only needs to be assisted. It's not that hard to get a fellow senior warrior to help her with her duties if she gets busy at some point, she doesn't need to step down and give up her position. "A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice." She certainly can make her own choice, but if she's making such a choice, why... exactly... is she in a Clan if she wants to raise them by herself? It doesn't make any sense. This Clan is your family, they're taking care of you and hunting for you already. Why would you not want them to help you with your kittens? Sounds selfish and stupid to me. I'm not saying the Queen should be working all day every day right after she has her kittens, I'm saying as long as she's fit and the kittens don't need to be nursed, she should be able to commit to her deputy or leader duties just fine. That would probably be after maybe a couple to three months of more care for her kittens, which then a senior warrior would probably do her duties more than her. After that they would be more of assistance when she is not available. Also yeah, human mothers do take breaks from work to care for her baby, but even then there are daycares and babysitters in the end if she has to go back to work, and plus human babies are pathetic and can't do anything for themselves for a very long time. Such fools. (eh it's fine, I'm just sorry if I'm a bit too aggressive.. ^^  |
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Post by pastelpills on Oct 5, 2016 1:49:58 GMT -5
I don't really mind that Russetfur didn't have kits, but the "she-cats that are deputies and leaders aren't supposed to have kits" thing is incredibly stupid and sexist. Same goes for medicine cats. Vicky said "some toms could get away with it" |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 2:05:43 GMT -5
blackstar's gay anyway
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Post by kinkajou on Oct 5, 2016 5:45:31 GMT -5
I don't really mind that Russetfur didn't have kits, but the "she-cats that are deputies and leaders aren't supposed to have kits" thing is incredibly stupid and sexist. Same goes for medicine cats. Vicky said "some toms could get away with it" I think the reason for that is they're not the ones who carry kits around for a few moons and give birth and stuff. Not that they're more allowed or something. It's just easier to hide |
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Post by pastelpills on Oct 5, 2016 6:58:08 GMT -5
Same goes for medicine cats. Vicky said "some toms could get away with it" I think the reason for that is they're not the ones who carry kits around for a few moons and give birth and stuff. Not that they're more allowed or something. It's just easier to hide I guess. But Leafpool and Yellowfang managed to hide it. |
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Post by Ligerfrost on Oct 5, 2016 9:02:33 GMT -5
It's not really sexist, it's a matter of practicality. Males don't have to take time out to care for their kits, therefore can have kits while deputy or leader. She-cats generally need to spend most of their time caring for their kits at least until they are weaned. Sure another queen can help but most she-cats will want to raise their own kits, that's kind of the point of having them- being able to care for them and be involved not just watch from afar. I find this unspoken rule to make plenty of sense. I was never really fond of the BlackstarcRussetfur ship, I saw them as strongly playonic friends. They've been through a lot together and are more sole mates in a different sense. I also never saw Russetfir as a cat to have kits. I think you've entirely missed the point of them being a Clan and are instead thinking about a mother with her own kittens on her own- and even then she can hunt away from them and still care for them. A Clan in warrior cats is like a family, and I see no reason why a mother needs to raise her kits like a loner with a family to support and help her. Because she is in a Clan, while she preforms her deputy or leader duties someone can be looking after her kits. And eventually the kittens wont even NEED constant supervision, especially if they're exploring the camp, where there are plenty of adults to keep an eye on them. They don't need constant coddling once they're big enough, and until they're big enough the Clan can help them. More specifically, other queens and she-cats who might find an interest. It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help. The deputy or leader could certainly take a "maternity leave" while the kittens still need milk and intense care, but even then when they aren't nursing, she could attend to her duties if she's needed. You're implying to me that a woman that has a job should not have children because of said job, which I find sexist. I'm very sorry if I'm harsh, really, I'm just tired of seeing this rule get approved of. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bluestar's Prophecy, and another reason why I don't like Erin Hunter. It's not against the rules for a female leader or deputy to have kits. However it's preferred they have them before they become a leader/deputy. The truth is that if there are permanent queens in the Clans then it wouldn't be a problem for female leaders or deputies to have kits. But I believe the reason they don't just have a temporary deputy is for stability. Kits still needed to be watched. And because permanent queen isn't an official rank in the Clans there is no guarantee that someone is there to watch the kits and kits get into everything. Even older kits will still get into trouble if someone isn't keeping an eye on them. In the past even with other cats watching the kits, kits have gotten into trouble. And even if a queen is available there isn't a guarantee that the kits will get all the attention they need. Lizardstripe is the prime example of a queen who wanted to turn down a leader's kits and was forced to care them and she abused Brokenkit (despite the fact he was the leader's son). The other thing is that she-cats who actually wanted kits wanted to care for them. If they couldn't care for them because of an illness or an injury that was one thing but they actually wanted to take care of their kits. The main reason why most she-cats who want the deputy position don't want kits is because they can be a distraction and it's unfair to the kits to be raised by everyone else instead of their mother. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2016 9:13:18 GMT -5
Always so determined to crush our dreams
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Oct 5, 2016 10:09:31 GMT -5
Always so determined to crush our dreams Yep. |
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Oct 5, 2016 12:20:25 GMT -5
On the bright side, Su did say that Blackstar did have a mate and kits of his own and that we would find out who they are soon.
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Asexual
Sootfeather
Now a BNHA addict. Mina Ashido is the best girl and I will fight you all on that.
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Post by Sootfeather on Oct 5, 2016 12:23:14 GMT -5
On the bright side, Su did say that Blackstar did have a mate and kits of his own and that we would find out who they are soon. For me, it's either Russetfur or single so I'm gonna pretend that he's mates with Russetfur. I take everything Su says with a grain of salt since the whole Brightflower incident. |
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Oct 5, 2016 12:27:55 GMT -5
I'm more unhappy with how unacceptable it seems to be with having a female deputy or leader having kits of their own at that time.
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Post by Bramblestar on Oct 5, 2016 13:04:01 GMT -5
I'm well aware that the Clan is a big family that helps each other out and I never stated a mother has to raise her litter by herself. In the clans other queens always help out but helping out and putting most of the kittens care onto another queen is different. You are suggesting other cats take care of the kits while the she-cat is busy with her deputy/leadership duties but these duties aren't just organising patrols, talking to warriors in camp, etc. They involve going out on daily patrols, possibly being away for hours in there is a conflict, etc. Daily warrior duties that take up most of a cats time during the day and when she gets back in the evening she is going to be tired and need her rest if she has to keep up this lifestyle- a rest that is going to be interrupted if she has to care for her kits throughout the night. I just see it as a bit of an overload of work and stress on the she-cat. Sure, she can minimise the number of patrols she goes on and such to rest/care for the kittens but then is she fulfilling her duty to the Clan fully if she's committed to keeping her position? There may be another cat that can do the job better or to the full capacity while she is in the nursery. In the world of warriors kits are almost always under supervision, even when exploring the camp to ensure they don't get under any cats paws and make sure they stay out of trouble or run off after a patrol. It shouldn't be the warriors, medicine cats or apprentices job to do this, they're out doing their own duties. The elders could fill this though. "It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help." I think you're going a bit far here. A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice. Maternity leave would mean they are not fulfilling their duty to the clan by being there at all times. They have to treat their clan as their kits and be ready to take action at all times. Not to mention they wouldn't be as physically fit for a while after kitting. Woman in the real world DO take a break from work after they've had a child- maternity leave- so that they can care for their baby when it needs it most (most of the time anyway). Once the baby is okay to be looked after by someone else they return to their job. In the warriors world that maternity leave is the 6 moons the offspring are kits. This "maternity leave" can be altered since kits develop faster than human babies which is fine but for those few moons the queen is likely to spend most of her time caring for the kits and not doing her duties. (sorry if I sound a bit repetitive, I'm tired :/) In no way does the deputy or leader queen have to do her full work load if it stressed her out and interrupts her care for her kits, I never said she had to attend to her usual warrior duties daily as well, I was saying this to imply the she-cat is a deputy or leader doing deputy or leader duties. the patrolling and hunting duties are not deputy duties, they are warrior duties, which YES, a deputy and a leader are warriors, but they have their own specific duties. You're implying that only deputies do this, and you're also making assumptions that there might be a conflict, which yes, there certainly could be, but that does not mean that there will be. If she'll be tired out from patrolling and hunting all day, she doesn't need to do it all day. It's that simple. It's not as if she can't leave a patrol to go back. I doubt the Clan would mind, they know she has kits to look after. The kits certainly do need an eye kept on them, and that's what I said. The cats in camp would make sure to check where they are every now and then if they're outside. If there are warriors in camp that are off duty and not sleeping, I don't see why they should have a problem with watching over them? So could apprentices and medicine cats. They aren't all constantly working 24/7. Everyone gets a break. It's not that taxing to glance around for the children every now and then. The queen deputy/leader doesn't need to be replaced if she can still properly give commands to her Clan. She only needs to be assisted. It's not that hard to get a fellow senior warrior to help her with her duties if she gets busy at some point, she doesn't need to step down and give up her position. "A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice." She certainly can make her own choice, but if she's making such a choice, why... exactly... is she in a Clan if she wants to raise them by herself? It doesn't make any sense. This Clan is your family, they're taking care of you and hunting for you already. Why would you not want them to help you with your kittens? Sounds selfish and stupid to me. I'm not saying the Queen should be working all day every day right after she has her kittens, I'm saying as long as she's fit and the kittens don't need to be nursed, she should be able to commit to her deputy or leader duties just fine. That would probably be after maybe a couple to three months of more care for her kittens, which then a senior warrior would probably do her duties more than her. After that they would be more of assistance when she is not available. Also yeah, human mothers do take breaks from work to care for her baby, but even then there are daycares and babysitters in the end if she has to go back to work, and plus human babies are pathetic and can't do anything for themselves for a very long time. Such fools. (eh it's fine, I'm just sorry if I'm a bit too aggressive.. ^^;) She-cats still can't perform their duties (when taking care of their kits) at the same frequency as their male counterparts, no matter how you look at it. This whole argument was brought up in Moth Flight's Vision and was settled in there. A female cat is going to be under constant pressure taking care of their regular duties and kits, to the point where they can't perform their job as they should. Some can handle it, like Squirrelflight, they are the exception to the rule though (she was very experienced by that time). Others, like Leafpool, left the clan without a medicine cat (Brightheart does not count) for a moon because she was going to have kits. If a male medicine cat were in Leafpool's position, he wouldn't have needed to abandon his duties. This all applies to leaders and deputies the same, if not more. Both positions are stressful already, and even male cats (Pinestar) have been shown to crack under the stress. "She certainly can make her own choice, but if she's making such a choice, why... exactly... is she in a Clan if she wants to raise them by herself? It doesn't make any sense. This Clan is your family, they're taking care of you and hunting for you already. Why would you not want them to help you with your kittens? Sounds selfish and stupid to me." Because they are her kittens, she can decide who will have any influence on them and who won't. Whitestorm would have been an absolutely different cat if Thisteclaw had ended up parenting him instead of Bluefur after Snowfur died. Raising kits for someone else is so different from simply hunting for them that they shouldn't be compared. What can sound selfish and stupid to someone can appear as an excellent idea to someone else. |
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Oct 5, 2016 14:01:36 GMT -5
Same goes for medicine cats. Vicky said "some toms could get away with it" I think the reason for that is they're not the ones who carry kits around for a few moons and give birth and stuff. Not that they're more allowed or something. It's just easier to hide Where is that even said anyway? |
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Post by andy on Oct 5, 2016 14:54:08 GMT -5
I think you've entirely missed the point of them being a Clan and are instead thinking about a mother with her own kittens on her own- and even then she can hunt away from them and still care for them. A Clan in warrior cats is like a family, and I see no reason why a mother needs to raise her kits like a loner with a family to support and help her. Because she is in a Clan, while she preforms her deputy or leader duties someone can be looking after her kits. And eventually the kittens wont even NEED constant supervision, especially if they're exploring the camp, where there are plenty of adults to keep an eye on them. They don't need constant coddling once they're big enough, and until they're big enough the Clan can help them. More specifically, other queens and she-cats who might find an interest. It would be incredibly selfish and stupid of a queen not to accept help. The deputy or leader could certainly take a "maternity leave" while the kittens still need milk and intense care, but even then when they aren't nursing, she could attend to her duties if she's needed. You're implying to me that a woman that has a job should not have children because of said job, which I find sexist. I'm very sorry if I'm harsh, really, I'm just tired of seeing this rule get approved of. It's one of the reasons I don't like Bluestar's Prophecy, and another reason why I don't like Erin Hunter. It's not against the rules for a female leader or deputy to have kits. However it's preferred they have them before they become a leader/deputy. The truth is that if there are permanent queens in the Clans then it wouldn't be a problem for female leaders or deputies to have kits. But I believe the reason they don't just have a temporary deputy is for stability. Kits still needed to be watched. And because permanent queen isn't an official rank in the Clans there is no guarantee that someone is there to watch the kits and kits get into everything. Even older kits will still get into trouble if someone isn't keeping an eye on them. In the past even with other cats watching the kits, kits have gotten into trouble. And even if a queen is available there isn't a guarantee that the kits will get all the attention they need. Lizardstripe is the prime example of a queen who wanted to turn down a leader's kits and was forced to care them and she abused Brokenkit (despite the fact he was the leader's son). The other thing is that she-cats who actually wanted kits wanted to care for them. If they couldn't care for them because of an illness or an injury that was one thing but they actually wanted to take care of their kits. The main reason why most she-cats who want the deputy position don't want kits is because they can be a distraction and it's unfair to the kits to be raised by everyone else instead of their mother. I don't see why you've responded to my older post and talked about things that I've already gone over. It's definitely not a rule because if it was we'd be seeing it all the time. As I've said before, warriors, apprentices, and medicine cats that are in camp and not sleeping are perfectly capable of watching kits. It's not that taxing to check where the kittens are every now and then, and through all my time of reading there's always someone in camp. If the Clan does have permanent queens, then they can do it! Elders can, too. They don't need to hunt for the Clan anymore, and they stay in camp all the time. Lizardstripe was a bad mother, but she wasn't even a deputy or leader. I'm talking about deputy and leader mothers. There is also no guarantee that the mother will be bad like her, and I never even talked about a she-cat adopting kits, just the Clan helping her care for them. A deputy or leader she-cat that wanted kits can still preform at least her basic duties, I've not said that she needs to be hunting and patrolling with her Clan constantly, because it's her own personal choice if she actually wants to patrol and hunt. She can still leave the nursery and assign patrols or talk to cats. It's not that hard. The basic leader and deputy jobs aren't so hard that you can't raise your kits right. It won't hurt their life if you're not there constantly before they're made apprentices. I certainly was fine even after my mother started to work again. |
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Post by andy on Oct 5, 2016 15:03:34 GMT -5
In no way does the deputy or leader queen have to do her full work load if it stressed her out and interrupts her care for her kits, I never said she had to attend to her usual warrior duties daily as well, I was saying this to imply the she-cat is a deputy or leader doing deputy or leader duties. the patrolling and hunting duties are not deputy duties, they are warrior duties, which YES, a deputy and a leader are warriors, but they have their own specific duties. You're implying that only deputies do this, and you're also making assumptions that there might be a conflict, which yes, there certainly could be, but that does not mean that there will be. If she'll be tired out from patrolling and hunting all day, she doesn't need to do it all day. It's that simple. It's not as if she can't leave a patrol to go back. I doubt the Clan would mind, they know she has kits to look after. The kits certainly do need an eye kept on them, and that's what I said. The cats in camp would make sure to check where they are every now and then if they're outside. If there are warriors in camp that are off duty and not sleeping, I don't see why they should have a problem with watching over them? So could apprentices and medicine cats. They aren't all constantly working 24/7. Everyone gets a break. It's not that taxing to glance around for the children every now and then. The queen deputy/leader doesn't need to be replaced if she can still properly give commands to her Clan. She only needs to be assisted. It's not that hard to get a fellow senior warrior to help her with her duties if she gets busy at some point, she doesn't need to step down and give up her position. "A queen should be allowed to raise the kit the way she wants as long as it doesn't affect the kit negatively, even if that involves raising them by herself with little to no help from others. That's her choice." She certainly can make her own choice, but if she's making such a choice, why... exactly... is she in a Clan if she wants to raise them by herself? It doesn't make any sense. This Clan is your family, they're taking care of you and hunting for you already. Why would you not want them to help you with your kittens? Sounds selfish and stupid to me. I'm not saying the Queen should be working all day every day right after she has her kittens, I'm saying as long as she's fit and the kittens don't need to be nursed, she should be able to commit to her deputy or leader duties just fine. That would probably be after maybe a couple to three months of more care for her kittens, which then a senior warrior would probably do her duties more than her. After that they would be more of assistance when she is not available. Also yeah, human mothers do take breaks from work to care for her baby, but even then there are daycares and babysitters in the end if she has to go back to work, and plus human babies are pathetic and can't do anything for themselves for a very long time. Such fools. (eh it's fine, I'm just sorry if I'm a bit too aggressive.. ^^ She-cats still can't perform their duties (when taking care of their kits) at the same frequency as their male counterparts, no matter how you look at it. This whole argument was brought up in Moth Flight's Vision and was settled in there. A female cat is going to be under constant pressure taking care of their regular duties and kits, to the point where they can't perform their job as they should. Some can handle it, like Squirrelflight, they are the exception to the rule though (she was very experienced by that time). Others, like Leafpool, left the clan without a medicine cat (Brightheart does not count) for a moon because she was going to have kits. If a male medicine cat were in Leafpool's position, he wouldn't have needed to abandon his duties. This all applies to leaders and deputies the same, if not more. Both positions are stressful already, and even male cats (Pinestar) have been shown to crack under the stress. "She certainly can make her own choice, but if she's making such a choice, why... exactly... is she in a Clan if she wants to raise them by herself? It doesn't make any sense. This Clan is your family, they're taking care of you and hunting for you already. Why would you not want them to help you with your kittens? Sounds selfish and stupid to me." Because they are her kittens, she can decide who will have any influence on them and who won't. Whitestorm would have been an absolutely different cat if Thisteclaw had ended up parenting him instead of Bluefur after Snowfur died. Raising kits for someone else is so different from simply hunting for them that they shouldn't be compared. What can sound selfish and stupid to someone can appear as an excellent idea to someone else. But her regular duties are hunting and patrolling. While I doubt actual feral mother cats patrol their territories, they definitely leave to hunt for periods of time. But in a Clan, the deputy or leader can certainly preform her basic deputy and leader duties. I've not said that she HAS to commit to every single part of her job, as a warrior AND deputy/leader when she has kids, because I do know that that is way too hard. She can choose what she wants to do, and if I was a deputy/leader mother, I'd probably get bored sitting around and watching my kids all day. In Moth Flight's Vision, the medicine cat reason was brought up and settled, not the deputy and leader she-cat reason. Medicine cats have a more serious duty and are expected more of certain things. They have a better reason for she-cats AND toms not to have kittens. Medicine cats are completely different from deputies and leaders. They have to constantly be ready to care for cats in their Clan in sickness and injury, which would really take up their time. Leaders and deputies just have to give the Clan orders. How can she decide who influences them when they choose who they want to be with? How can she choose how to raise them when they're in a huge CLAN of cats that all live and work together already? The kittens choose what they want to be in the end, and the mother can't really control her kid, especially once they're an apprentice and aren't around her at all times. The thought of being forced to be around specific people bothers me very much. |
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Post by Basement Cat on Oct 5, 2016 16:23:03 GMT -5
I'm cool with this. I headcanon Russetfur as straight-ace anyways.
Although I'm not sure sure about Blackstar's mate. I'm guessing Kinkfur. I'm probably way off.
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Post by nem on Oct 5, 2016 16:32:12 GMT -5
I'm cool with this. I headcanon Russetfur as straight-ace anyways. Although I'm not sure sure about Blackstar's mate. I'm guessing Kinkfur. I'm probably way off. New headcanoned family tree!11 Blackstar + Kinkfur = Snowbird, Ratscar, Sparrowtail, Dewkit, Mistcloud Snowbird + Boulder = Nightwing, Wildfur Nightwing + Smokefoot = Talonpaw, Smokepaw (Jr.) Snowbird + Scorchfur = Cloverfoot, Rippletail, Grassheart, Beenose, Yarrowleaf, Bluebellkit Grassheart + Sparrowtail = Needletail |
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