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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 29, 2024 21:47:06 GMT -5
I still wish they had at least given Splashtail a different name, and the fact that he's around the same age as both Rootspring and Nightheart doesn't help either, but I'm still going with him. I find him to be more entertaining than I did Hawkfrost.
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Post by wygolvillage on Mar 29, 2024 21:55:05 GMT -5
As of right now I prefer Splashtail because he has the advantage of both being a direct influence on a POV character as well as being an influence on the politics of the RiverClan (and the other Clans). It makes his impact within the story a lot more tangible and makes him a better villain, imo. It's about stakes. We see the effects of his actions much more directly than we do with Hawkfrost.
Hawkfrost influences the politics of the living Clans in TNP but isn't involved directly with a POV character to the extent that Splashtail is with Frostpaw (imagine TNP from the perspective of Mothwing, wouldn't that be cool? Like, I found Hawkfrost a super interesting antagonist in her novella just from the perspective shift); in OOTS he is a direct influence on a POV character but his influence over more tangible things in the Clans is lesser, so the stakes feel more low.
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Cold Pool
🌲miss the forest territories forever🌳
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Post by Cold Pool on Mar 29, 2024 22:50:21 GMT -5
Both are young villains from RiverClan origins. However, just in terms of characterization, I think Hawkfrost is one of the few villains who is truly politically astute, even more so than his father. Splashtail is more impetuous and and immature by comparison. His tyranny was more fear-based, unable to gain the conviction and support of others, and had no roots to rule for long. Of course I'm most likely biased by my love for Hawkfrost in saying this, and Splashtail is still an interesting villain overall, but there are still moments of his arrogant and mousebrain speeches that make me want to thump him.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Mar 29, 2024 23:05:46 GMT -5
Both are good, but I'm personally partial to Hawkfrost's more subtle style.
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Post by gilramanujan on Mar 29, 2024 23:41:32 GMT -5
I think I’m on the side that Splashtail is a better version than Hawkfrost because at least he’s an active threat to the clans while also having compelling rise to power. Which is more than I can say about Hawkfrost.
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Post by User33 on Mar 29, 2024 23:42:16 GMT -5
Hawkfrost. Not exactly fair due to personal bias. But that doesn't mean I dislike Splashtail
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Post by NightFrostSun on Mar 30, 2024 8:58:06 GMT -5
I have a love hate relationship with both I hate their actions but they are fabulous villains. I see Hawkfrost as more of a sociopath slowly corrupted by his father , where as I, see Splashtail as a full blown psychopath. He has no empathy and compassion whatsoever and he believes that he is the savior of the clans. I voted for Splashtail as he is definitely more evil a character.
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Post by Hollyfall on Mar 30, 2024 9:03:28 GMT -5
I don't hate Hawkfrost, but Splashtail has the benefit of being involved with a main character since book one and is overall better written imo. Given all that RiverClan has been through, I can definitely see someone like Splashtail able to rise to power. You see this numerous times in actual history too.
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Asexual
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Slightdapple
✨your local book nerd ✨
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Post by Slightdapple on Mar 30, 2024 10:12:52 GMT -5
Splashtail, he’s better written and has higher stakes than Hawkfrost, and he actually has a direct connection with one of the protagonists.
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Post by Rainfire on Mar 30, 2024 12:16:45 GMT -5
I don't really care about either of them, but I guess Splashtail, at least at the moment.
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Post by moongloweevee on Mar 30, 2024 12:48:34 GMT -5
Hawkfrost wasn't that threatening while he was alive. The only 2 memorable things he did while he was alive was stage a coup with Mudclaw and claim one of Firestar's lives before dying. While he was a spirit, only killed Hollyleaf before Bramble killed him.
Splashtail is a much more active cat who has killed and will kill if/when necessary (as seen as him trying to kill Frostpaw).
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Post by vectoring34 on Mar 30, 2024 13:32:44 GMT -5
Splashtail isn't that great but at least he has a cool impact on Frostpaw. Decaf Tigerstar over here by comparison is even less impressive
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Mar 31, 2024 0:01:07 GMT -5
Hawkfrost for me personally. I think Hawkfrost is better fleshed out in the Dark Forest though, but it's undeniable how much of an impact he had on both Bramblestar and Ivypool's lives, and I liked that. Splashtail may be scummy, and he treated Frostpaw terribly...but I don't think he's as manipulative as the books are making him out to be. And that it's a matter of RiverClan being too desperate + the other clan leaders acting like imbeciles right now. He's just one cat, with no lives...it's hard to believe anyone hasn't tried to deal with him yet. On top of that, he did pretty much just hijack Curlfeather's plans, and I found her to be more interesting as a villain overall.
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Post by iceheart on Mar 31, 2024 11:37:39 GMT -5
Hawkfrost. Splashtail is a literal child with no motivation whatsoever and isn't frightening in the least. At least Hawkfrost was a compelling antagonist.
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BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ
Villain Enjoyer
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Apr 1, 2024 7:30:13 GMT -5
Hawkfrost always and forever!
I do think he had quite a bit of wasted potential in TNP and they could've utilized him more as a character and antagonist/villain overall but he was great in OotS and utterly fantastic in both Mothwing's Secret as well as Winds of Change. He was more suave/subtle about his manipulation as well as more compelling about his motivation even though I understand the sentiment of him feeling like a less cool version of his daddy dearest.
Splashtail is fun but doesn't feel as competent as he seems to think he is. He reads as being quite full of himself while also being in over his head/out of his depth a bit in some scenes during Shadow and Thunder. Could be because of his age (the wiki lists him at 16 moons/1.33 years while Hawkfrost was 29 moons/2.42 years old at the time of his demise for comparison).
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Villain Enjoyer
Finally reading Wind!
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Post by BҽɾɾყႦʅσσɱ on Apr 1, 2024 8:16:44 GMT -5
Splashtail, he’s better written and has higher stakes than Hawkfrost, and he actually has a direct connection with one of the protagonists. Hawkfrost had connections with three protagonists from three different arcs in total although the one between him and his brother Brambleclaw was probably the biggest one. I get what you're trying to say though.
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Post by Jaysnow on Apr 1, 2024 18:12:42 GMT -5
At least Hawkfrost was a compelling antagonist. (With all due respect) In what world?
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Post by Whispering Willow on Apr 1, 2024 18:18:50 GMT -5
I personally find Splashtail a more compelling villain than Hawkfrost. I found Hawkfrost pretty forgettable on his own--the main thing that made him "memorable" was the fanbase and his connection to Brambleclaw. But you always knew Hawkfrost's motive was to follow in Tigerstar's pawsteps. Splashtail was a bit more mysterious initially and is more interesting to me, and his connection to Frostpaw is unique as far as Warriors villains go.
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Post by Sundance on Apr 1, 2024 23:03:23 GMT -5
Hawkfrost. Perhaps this is because of familiarity, as he's been such a prominent character for over a decade. Yet his death scene was just so iconic and his influence over and relationship with Ivypoool in the Dark Forest was compelling.
Splashtail is like an ant waiting to be crushed. He feels like a half fleshed out filler villain. Honestly, that's the trouble with Warriors having so many arcs, it becomes increasingly hard for antagonists to outdo each other and seem like a genuine threat. The Imposter set the bar high last arc. I don't see anything new or interesting about Splashtail. In fact the most interesting thing about Splashtail may be Curlfeather.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 2, 2024 19:30:32 GMT -5
At least Hawkfrost was a compelling antagonist. (With all due respect) In what world? Comes down to preference. I just don't see Splashtail to be as compelling personally compared to Hawkfrost, although I don't mind him either. Splashtail, in addition to his pretty hilarious name, isn't exactly doing anything new or innovating. On top that he's knowingly just making it easier for himself to get one-shot at some point. I also don't think he's as manipulative too, just that RiverClan is not in the best condition. They seem well aware that he's trashy, and so do the rest of the clans, it's just that they're desperate at this point. Which isn't a compliment to Splashtail's writing. He's only in power because of desperation.
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Post by lilythorn on Apr 2, 2024 20:08:18 GMT -5
Splashtail, easily. But I enjoy Hawkfrost as a character too.
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Post by iceheart on Apr 3, 2024 21:56:48 GMT -5
At least Hawkfrost was a compelling antagonist. (With all due respect) In what world? Um, the world that I live in. Spoilers for Wind: Splashtail is every generic cartoon villain ever. He has no reason for what he does. There's no motivation. He's wanted power since he was an apprentice? What apprentice doesn't want to be Clan leader? And Curlfeather suddenly knew that? And now he's leader of what, like 15 cats, and he keeps killing them? His reasoning is so pathetic. "I don't want to listen to StarClan." Okay...? Nobody's making you. You literally could have gotten your nine lives anyway - StarClan gives them to shitty leaders (Brokenstar, Tigerstar), and you'd live nine times. Podligt isn't an experienced medicine cat, if Splashtail got an infected wound it's joever for him.
The scene where he was standing in the middle of a rain-battered camp and he just kills Harelight really got me. He's got nothing to him. He's like a recent high school graduate who assassinated the vice president. He's not threatening or frightening. ThunderClan, SkyClan, WindClan, and ShadowClan could show up and beat them into submission - or even a single patrol from ThunderClan to dispose of Splashtail. He's not even manipulative and cunning in the way Hawkfrost was. Hawkfrost had a way with words and was able to manipulate everyone around him - faking the sign to get Mothwing to be the medicine cat, turning RiverClan against Stormfur by egging Stormfur on so Stormfur attacked him and making it seem like Stormfur was the wrong cat, using Blackclaw against Mistyfoot, making it seem like he was loyal to the Clan when he was plotting with Mudclaw, and he was a believable character. He genuinely does not seem like a villain, and in the end we find out he is and he was the entire time when we look back at the text.
Splashtail is a joke. He's nothing compared to Hawkfrost. There's nothing to him. Hawkfrost had the decency of being Tigerstar's son, having a sister who's a medicine cat, Brambeclaw being his half-brother, and had fleshed out relationships and was an actual threat. Even in the Dark Forest, he's still the same manipulative villain he always was. Splashtail isn't.
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Post by Jaysnow on Apr 4, 2024 13:51:10 GMT -5
(With all due respect) In what world? Um, the world that I live in. Spoilers for Wind: Splashtail is every generic cartoon villain ever. He has no reason for what he does. There's no motivation. He's wanted power since he was an apprentice? What apprentice doesn't want to be Clan leader? And Curlfeather suddenly knew that? And now he's leader of what, like 15 cats, and he keeps killing them? His reasoning is so pathetic. "I don't want to listen to StarClan." Okay...? Nobody's making you. You literally could have gotten your nine lives anyway - StarClan gives them to shitty leaders (Brokenstar, Tigerstar), and you'd live nine times. Podligt isn't an experienced medicine cat, if Splashtail got an infected wound it's joever for him.
The scene where he was standing in the middle of a rain-battered camp and he just kills Harelight really got me. He's got nothing to him. He's like a recent high school graduate who assassinated the vice president. He's not threatening or frightening. ThunderClan, SkyClan, WindClan, and ShadowClan could show up and beat them into submission - or even a single patrol from ThunderClan to dispose of Splashtail. He's not even manipulative and cunning in the way Hawkfrost was. Hawkfrost had a way with words and was able to manipulate everyone around him - faking the sign to get Mothwing to be the medicine cat, turning RiverClan against Stormfur by egging Stormfur on so Stormfur attacked him and making it seem like Stormfur was the wrong cat, using Blackclaw against Mistyfoot, making it seem like he was loyal to the Clan when he was plotting with Mudclaw, and he was a believable character. He genuinely does not seem like a villain, and in the end we find out he is and he was the entire time when we look back at the text.
Splashtail is a joke. He's nothing compared to Hawkfrost. There's nothing to him. Hawkfrost had the decency of being Tigerstar's son, having a sister who's a medicine cat, Brambeclaw being his half-brother, and had fleshed out relationships and was an actual threat. Even in the Dark Forest, he's still the same manipulative villain he always was. Splashtail isn't. I think Hawkfrost is about as interesting as cardboard and Splashtail is more interesting by default, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I didn't mean to disrespect you or anything by what I said so I do apologize if it came off like that.
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Post by Chicken on Apr 6, 2024 20:03:53 GMT -5
They're the same cat, Splashtail is just Hawkfrost reincarnated. Think about it, BristleFROST, FROSTpaw, it's all been leading up to this
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Apr 6, 2024 21:25:02 GMT -5
Is everyone forgetting that Hawkfrost was also very young just like splashtail? Also we never see Hawkfrost as leader and he’s just as manipulative as splashtail, so Hawkfrost probably would have acted like a paw patrol villain if he became leader too. Plus, Splashtail’s also manipulative. Like did we all forget Frostpaws arc in Thunder where she learned not to blame herself for falling for his manipulations? Idk, this might just be me.
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Post by کیوان on Apr 6, 2024 23:21:15 GMT -5
They're the same cat, Splashtail is just Hawkfrost reincarnated. Think about it, BristleFROST, FROSTpaw, it's all been leading up to this But Bristlefrost and Frostpaw were alive simultaneously at one point. I like the theory, though.
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𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 6, 2024 23:37:35 GMT -5
Is everyone forgetting that Hawkfrost was also very young just like splashtail? Also we never see Hawkfrost as leader and he’s just as manipulative as splashtail, so Hawkfrost probably would have acted like a paw patrol villain if he became leader too. Plus, Splashtail’s also manipulative. Like did we all forget Frostpaws arc in Thunder where she learned not to blame herself for falling for his manipulations? Idk, this might just be me. I actually think about this every time I think about Splashtail, because yeah, Hawkfrost was introduced as a new warrior when we first met him and it was immediately obvious (to me, at least) that he would become the main villain of the arc. I feel like what makes him and Splashtail different though is how Hawkfrost carries himself, if that makes sense? Also, just the arc doing weird things in hindsight, like Leopardstar appointing him as deputy in Mistyfoot's absence and no one finding this odd, even if it was just temporary. Meanwhile, Splashtail's young age is brought up constantly. And the more something is brought to your attention, the harder it becomes to ignore. That's the best way I can explain it, at least.
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