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Post by mymerlincat on Apr 9, 2020 15:28:27 GMT -5
It kind of bothered me that Lionblaze became deputy. He really didn't deserve to be named deputy IMO, especially so soon after killing Harestar. I get why he was battling him, but I don't know, this just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I would've expected him to have learned after the Russetfur incident, but even if he didn't kill Harestar, I still wouldn't have wanted him to be deputy. Though I really don't know who I'd pick instead since my other top choice (Rosepetal) was killed. Maybe Molewhisker?
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 9, 2020 15:32:25 GMT -5
I mean, it's not that he DOESN'T deserve to be deputy. His past kills don't really have anything to do with his worthiness. He's definitely not my top pick. That would have been Rosepetal.
Now? Molewhisker, Mousewhisker, or Lilyheart would all be interesting choices. I don't think Lionblaze is the worst thing ever, it's just heavy nepotism
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 15:33:52 GMT -5
My first choice would have been Molewhisker, but I don't think Lionblaze is a bad choice. He's a hardworking, loyal warrior, who went through A LOT of things in his youth, and persevered through them all. Maybe he does tend to act before he thinks, but he has a really good heart, and he's better than a lot of other cats they could have chosen.
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Post by dragonfruit on Apr 9, 2020 15:36:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. It’s not that he doesn’t deserve to be deputy, but there are certainly better choices, especially so soon after Harestar died. Bristlefrost would be a good option imo.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 9, 2020 15:36:23 GMT -5
My first choice would have been Molewhisker, but I don't think Lionblaze is a bad choice. He's a hardworking, loyal warrior, who went through A LOT of things in his youth, and persevered through them all. Maybe he does tend to act before he thinks, but he has a really good heart, and he's better than a lot of other cats they could have chosen. Yeah. I don't think he makes a terrible deputy, so long as someone like Squirrelflight is leader since she's a very thoughtful cat, but I hope he doesn't became a leader. I feel like he's too dopey to be a good leader.
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Post by ᏞᎪᎠᎽ Ꮎf fᎪᏁᎠᎾms ミ☆ on Apr 9, 2020 15:36:41 GMT -5
im just waiting for someone in thunderclan to call them out for nepotism at this point...i've been saying for a while, imagine a thunderclan villain who has a grudge against firestar's linage simply because of this nepotism. don't other bloodlines deserve greatness too? etc.
i have no idea who else could have been chosen, but i like the idea of lilyheart being deputy. any younger cat would have been a better choice in comparison, but i think molewhisker would have been too soon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 15:37:49 GMT -5
My first choice would have been Molewhisker, but I don't think Lionblaze is a bad choice. He's a hardworking, loyal warrior, who went through A LOT of things in his youth, and persevered through them all. Maybe he does tend to act before he thinks, but he has a really good heart, and he's better than a lot of other cats they could have chosen. Yeah. I don't think he makes a terrible deputy, so long as someone like Squirrelflight is leader since she's a very thoughtful cat, but I hope he doesn't became a leader. I feel like he's too dopey to be a good leader. True, he's good deputy material, but I'm not sure about leader, it would be interesting to see though I guess
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 9, 2020 15:37:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. It’s not that he doesn’t deserve to be deputy, but there are certainly better choices, especially so soon after Harestar died. Bristlefrost would be a good option imo. I disagree about Bristlefrost, at least for now. She's too naive, passive, and young to be an effective deputy, plus her clan likely doesn't trust her 100% considering everything. A senior warrior who has had an apprentice is a much better option
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Post by sorethroat on Apr 9, 2020 15:38:09 GMT -5
I don’t like that he is deputy but the cat has only claimed three lives and two—if not all—of them were on accident. Other than that he’s a good warrior, the problem is that there should be a side character that got the role of deputy and maybe the shot at being leader, because all this confirms is that unless you had a POV at some point and were involved in the plot, you don’t matter in ThunderClan.
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Post by dragonfruit on Apr 9, 2020 15:50:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. It’s not that he doesn’t deserve to be deputy, but there are certainly better choices, especially so soon after Harestar died. Bristlefrost would be a good option imo. I disagree about Bristlefrost, at least for now. She's too naive, passive, and young to be an effective deputy, plus her clan likely doesn't trust her 100% considering everything. A senior warrior who has had an apprentice is a much better option True, but she is learning from her mistakes, and has proven to be cooperative and quick witted. Despite not even having an apprentice, she handled the pressure of deputyship well considering her age, the entire arc is really helping develop her character. Edit because I just realised half of my post was cropped off. In fairness, she’s still young and less experienced, but she does have potential to be a decent deputy.
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Apr 9, 2020 16:29:19 GMT -5
I don't really mind it, and I think part of the reason for why Squirrelflight chose him was not only because of their personal connection, but he might also have been the only eligible cat she trusted enough to stand by her side at the time of making her decision.
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Post by Owl on Apr 9, 2020 16:51:31 GMT -5
i feel like squirrelflight chose lionblaze because of their close familiarity, her firstborn son, adopted or otherwise. obviously a lot has been going down, so she probably went for a cat she felt comfortable with.
my choice for potential deputies either goes to cats i think have good leadership skills (rosepetal, molewhisker during the avos quest,) or cats where i simply just think they're neat. (lilyheart, bristlefrost, etc.) ivypool is a top contender for me as well, though i'm not really sure where to box her in, it's been too long since i read oots. lionblaze doesn't really hit either of these marks for me. his most interesting conflict was when he was struggling with his aggression and overwhelming strength. this could have been cool to see on a leader, but we've had so many overbearing, aggressive leaders as of late that i'm just tired of it.
he's got a sturdy head on his shoulders, and maybe some leadership potential, but i just can't see him make a compelling character while in a position of power. knowing the erins, they'll either suck what's left of his personality out entirely and make him a bramblestar 2.0, or he'll get the tigerheartstar in lost stars treatment
i'd rather see lionblaze grow into the gentle giant warrior type, kind of like whitestorm.
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Post by Woofzie on Apr 9, 2020 17:00:31 GMT -5
Tbh he is more worth of the deputy position than Rosepetal, IMO. She was always much more headstrong and had more aggressive than Lionblaze ever was.
I don't mind him being deputy. Honestly he deserves it and the only reason Squirrelflight chose him over Bristlefrost was because she is, indeed, too young for the position, but Squirrelflight hinted that Bristle has a good chance to be the next ThunderClan deputy/leader.
Lionblaze has matured, even for a background character and that shows in small scenes trough the books and with his actions. He's not even my favorite character, but I won't deny he is one of the best options right now in ThunderClan.
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Post by Moonblazer on Apr 9, 2020 17:03:43 GMT -5
I’m not the happiest about it. It makes sense based on her familiarity with him, but at the same time there are other cats that would make for more interesting deputies in my opinion. Molewhisker is still my top choice at the moment, but Ivypool and later down the line Bristlefrost would also be nice, when she’s more prepared and mentored an apprentice.
I don’t hate Lionblaze at all, but he just bores me.
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Post by kinkajou on Apr 9, 2020 17:06:49 GMT -5
Nah he's lame
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Post by Haze on Apr 9, 2020 17:15:48 GMT -5
To be honest in Thunderclan in the moment of decision did not have any other decent option, and for more that it pains me to write... he was indeed the most qualified for the position there, because the clan really lacks competent cats.
At least Lionblaze in TBC is not as potato as he was when being the point of view. I hope that Bristlefrost become the next deputy when she is ready and eventually leader.
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Post by Redstorm on Apr 9, 2020 18:14:05 GMT -5
He seemed like the safe pick especially after all that happened.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Apr 9, 2020 18:28:56 GMT -5
He seemed like the safe pick especially after all that happened. This.
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Post by Mayflower on Apr 9, 2020 18:49:19 GMT -5
I don't like that he's deputy. It isn't that I hate Lionblaze (I disliked him throughout OOTS, but he's improved in AVOS and TBC) or anything, but I genuinely just doesn't see him as leader or deputy material, whether he's the "safe" choice or not. It doesn't help that it was also extremely predictable. Many people in the fandom have been saying over the years that he's going to be deputy as soon as Squirrelflight got into the leader position (temporary leader in this case, but y'all catch my drift), so that doesn't help, either, because we saw it coming. The fact that it did actually happen makes it so boring and a little irritating. I wanted another sidelined character to be deputy, like what we had with Crowfrost, Cloverfoot, Harestar, etc. I even loved when fake!Bramblestar made Berrynose deputy, because who expected that? And the results were interesting. We got a lot of action from it.
I mean, I get that it makes sense for a leader to choose a cat that they know well and are close to, but I think I'm just tired of the favoritism at this point.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 9, 2020 18:55:57 GMT -5
Another thing that might make Lionblaze a good deputy for Squirrelflight right now is that, when she reveals it's Ashfur, Lionblaze knows Ashfur intimately and knows what he's capable of. He was literally trained by Ashfur so he'd know his fighting style and stuff.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Apr 9, 2020 19:23:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't say he's undeserving. We don't know the personalities of many of the cats, so there aren't any clear candidates that come to mind for deputy and I think Lionblaze is a safe choice considering the mess ThunderClan is right now, especially since Squirrelflight knows that he will side with her no matter what in this mess.
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Post by Neekwanakwaki (Cloud) on Apr 9, 2020 22:47:15 GMT -5
He may be a "safe" choice, but he's awfully boring.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 10, 2020 0:49:28 GMT -5
Lionblaze killing Harestar might actually be an endorsement of him. Bear in mind that because of Harestar's death and revival, the battle was stopped and Windclan was put on their side. Even if he didn't plan for it to work out that way, Lionblaze ended up being practically responsible for stopping the battle. That'll give him lots of credit and endorsement for the job to others.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 10, 2020 9:26:16 GMT -5
The irony about ThunderClan's nepotism is that it was only really called out once, out of spite, by Ashfur of all people, lol.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 10, 2020 9:59:47 GMT -5
The irony about ThunderClan's nepotism is that it was only really called out once, out of spite, by Ashfur of all people, lol. That word is being used a lot, and it doesn't really make any sense in that context. The problem with nepotism is that incompetent people get promoted. Well then, who is more qualified than Lionblaze in the clan right now? Rosepetal is dead, Spotfur disobeyed orders and acted recklessly, Ivypool didn't show much initiative in this arc, and Molewhisker did nothing in this arc. I can't think of any other deputy prospects aside from Bristlefrost, but Bristlefrost wasn't happy with the job to begin with and it would probably look pretty bad if she was kept in her deputy position given to her by the ghost. Lionblaze also has the advantage over most of these of being completely trustworthy because of being labeled as a codebreaker, and thus having zero reason to conspire with the impostor unlike any others who may have been faking it from an in-universe perspective. Lionblaze really is one of the best choices, there's no nepotism about it. You can blame the writing for giving him more of an expanded role, but that's a separate issue from nepotism, and in fact directly contradicts it because the very reason for that expansion of a role is probably to make him worthy as a deputy in actions. If there was a better option than Lionblaze, I have yet to hear it.
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Post by *Ottersplash* on Apr 10, 2020 13:20:35 GMT -5
The irony about ThunderClan's nepotism is that it was only really called out once, out of spite, by Ashfur of all people, lol. That word is being used a lot, and it doesn't really make any sense in that context. The problem with nepotism is that incompetent people get promoted. Well then, who is more qualified than Lionblaze in the clan right now? Rosepetal is dead, Spotfur disobeyed orders and acted recklessly, Ivypool didn't show much initiative in this arc, and Molewhisker did nothing in this arc. I can't think of any other deputy prospects aside from Bristlefrost, but Bristlefrost wasn't happy with the job to begin with and it would probably look pretty bad if she was kept in her deputy position given to her by the ghost. Lionblaze also has the advantage over most of these of being completely trustworthy because of being labeled as a codebreaker, and thus having zero reason to conspire with the impostor unlike any others who may have been faking it from an in-universe perspective. Lionblaze really is one of the best choices, there's no nepotism about it. You can blame the writing for giving him more of an expanded role, but that's a separate issue from nepotism, and in fact directly contradicts it because the very reason for that expansion of a role is probably to make him worthy as a deputy in actions. If there was a better option than Lionblaze, I have yet to hear it. This is true. The other options, like Rosepetal (Stemleaf acted too aggressively this time), were killed off in the battle. And we've seen very little Thunderclan response to impostor other than cringing Sparkpelt MAY have worked, but once again. That falls into 'nepotism'. I'd say Twigbranch but she's...she's sweet but I don't think she's a good choice as she is right now, despite her loyalty to Thunderclan being unquestionable
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Apr 10, 2020 15:21:03 GMT -5
In terms of the situation the characters are in, yes. He’s an experienced warrior who has also remained unquestionably loyal throughout it all. Not to mention he’s also good in battle, and things will inevitably come to that. As others have mentioned, there’s a lack of capable picks right now, with people either being killed off or otherwise unable to qualify. So Lionblaze was one of the few they have.
My main problem with it though is that this comes after every single fanfiction and their dog made him deputy and sometimes leader. It got annoying seeing him in that position, especially when most fan fiction authors didn’t even consider anyone else (and the fanfictions weren’t anywhere close to the situation the books are currently in, so lack of options is not a factor). It’s more of a bad coincidence than anything else, and I’m interested to see how the actual books handle it. I don’t think it will be a permanent thing, especially considering how much attention Bristlefrost is getting. It’s interesting, because the best warrior story I ever read (echoes of the war) didn’t have lionblaze anywhere near leadership or as deputy, instead focusing on him as the parent of the main character in that series. So I only hope that making him a temporary deputy doesn’t mess up his character...
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 10, 2020 18:40:08 GMT -5
The irony about ThunderClan's nepotism is that it was only really called out once, out of spite, by Ashfur of all people, lol. That word is being used a lot, and it doesn't really make any sense in that context. The problem with nepotism is that incompetent people get promoted. Well then, who is more qualified than Lionblaze in the clan right now? Rosepetal is dead, Spotfur disobeyed orders and acted recklessly, Ivypool didn't show much initiative in this arc, and Molewhisker did nothing in this arc. I can't think of any other deputy prospects aside from Bristlefrost, but Bristlefrost wasn't happy with the job to begin with and it would probably look pretty bad if she was kept in her deputy position given to her by the ghost. Lionblaze also has the advantage over most of these of being completely trustworthy because of being labeled as a codebreaker, and thus having zero reason to conspire with the impostor unlike any others who may have been faking it from an in-universe perspective. Lionblaze really is one of the best choices, there's no nepotism about it. You can blame the writing for giving him more of an expanded role, but that's a separate issue from nepotism, and in fact directly contradicts it because the very reason for that expansion of a role is probably to make him worthy as a deputy in actions. If there was a better option than Lionblaze, I have yet to hear it. I was referring to back when Ashfur accused bs toward Firestar, Leafpool, and Squirrelflight when Bramblestar was made deputy despite not qualifying for it.
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Post by Uмвяᴀ on Apr 10, 2020 18:44:28 GMT -5
That word is being used a lot, and it doesn't really make any sense in that context. The problem with nepotism is that incompetent people get promoted. Well then, who is more qualified than Lionblaze in the clan right now? Rosepetal is dead, Spotfur disobeyed orders and acted recklessly, Ivypool didn't show much initiative in this arc, and Molewhisker did nothing in this arc. I can't think of any other deputy prospects aside from Bristlefrost, but Bristlefrost wasn't happy with the job to begin with and it would probably look pretty bad if she was kept in her deputy position given to her by the ghost. Lionblaze also has the advantage over most of these of being completely trustworthy because of being labeled as a codebreaker, and thus having zero reason to conspire with the impostor unlike any others who may have been faking it from an in-universe perspective. Lionblaze really is one of the best choices, there's no nepotism about it. You can blame the writing for giving him more of an expanded role, but that's a separate issue from nepotism, and in fact directly contradicts it because the very reason for that expansion of a role is probably to make him worthy as a deputy in actions. If there was a better option than Lionblaze, I have yet to hear it. I was referring to back when Ashfur accused bs toward Firestar, Leafpool, and Squirrelflight when Bramblestar was made deputy despite not qualifying for it. Ashfur accused Leafpool of faking a sign from StarClan to get her brother-in-law the deputy position. She didn't.
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Post by vectoring34 on Apr 10, 2020 18:56:14 GMT -5
That word is being used a lot, and it doesn't really make any sense in that context. The problem with nepotism is that incompetent people get promoted. Well then, who is more qualified than Lionblaze in the clan right now? Rosepetal is dead, Spotfur disobeyed orders and acted recklessly, Ivypool didn't show much initiative in this arc, and Molewhisker did nothing in this arc. I can't think of any other deputy prospects aside from Bristlefrost, but Bristlefrost wasn't happy with the job to begin with and it would probably look pretty bad if she was kept in her deputy position given to her by the ghost. Lionblaze also has the advantage over most of these of being completely trustworthy because of being labeled as a codebreaker, and thus having zero reason to conspire with the impostor unlike any others who may have been faking it from an in-universe perspective. Lionblaze really is one of the best choices, there's no nepotism about it. You can blame the writing for giving him more of an expanded role, but that's a separate issue from nepotism, and in fact directly contradicts it because the very reason for that expansion of a role is probably to make him worthy as a deputy in actions. If there was a better option than Lionblaze, I have yet to hear it. I was referring to back when Ashfur accused bs toward Firestar, Leafpool, and Squirrelflight when Bramblestar was made deputy despite not qualifying for it. But this implies there's a history of nepotism to begin with, and Brambleclaw being named as such was not nepotism. I don't believe he should have been made deputy, but he was made one due to Leafpool's sign, not due to any favoritism. It wasn't nepotism then and it's not nepotism now.
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