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Post by ʙᴜᴍʙʟᴇʙᴇᴇ » on Jan 24, 2019 11:45:54 GMT -5
i agree with rain, especially on the prefix thing ^.^’ i think i’m going to limit prefixes and stuff myself in shadow, only to avoid confusion on my part, since i already have one pair of a prefix
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Post by lazy penguin on Jan 24, 2019 16:55:07 GMT -5
ok big response incoming
see i really, really, don't want to assign just a random number to limit apprentices because that really doesn't take in a lot of information. i feel like you're overlooking the fact- that any character takes a lot of effort to develop and evolve- its just that apprentices have a goal for this, while time can be more arbitrary for older characters. having a set number of apprentices also means that you have a set number of mentors- which can also limit character growth in older characters. giving a cat an apprentice to handle is really a fundamental type of development in warriors so i really don't want to limit that as a resource either. there's also the issue of first come, first serve. so like- if someone wants to join as like 5 apprentices in one clan- there's nothing really stopping them from doing that. plus- let's say we have a couple joiners who are very active and deserving of an apprentice role, but they can't have one because they joined later in the rp. that's kinda unfair isn't it? like, i agree that there needs to be some limitation, but i'm very much opposed to a solid number. i would suggest doing something more ratio based instead? like four every 3 warrior/deputy/med/leader in a clan, there's one apprentice spot? so that it would keep growing and spaces would be made available as more and more people joined.
i agree with most of the queens/kit stuff, except for that brief statement about genetics. as someone who doesn't know a lot about cat genetics- and really doesn't have time to spend looking it up for every character, a rule stating that "genetics should fit" is a huge turn-off. like, i would doubt myself so much, i would end up not joining. and i know others feel the same way. so like, i really don't want to harm the joining count with something that's not even followed in the books. we can ask them to "consider genetics" and like follow it to at least like- no solid ginger cats, or say that male tortoiseshells should be sterile- but like, giving them two parents and asking them to come up with a character that fits exactly into their genetic code is not a great idea to me.
tbh my stance on half-clan kits was pretty much unless it's for plot reasons- don't join as a half-clan cat. like- if two cats hook up in rp and have kits- then those will be half-clan and they'll be chill. but if the only reason for your cat to be half-clan is that you want them to be half-clan, its not a good enough reason. we can have a cooldown on half-clan relationships, if you want to limit them that way tho.
just going to response to the rules analysis here too: no gender preference for the medicine cat! i'm fine working with sentences, that makes sense! also, i'm down with the post layout thing- but i'd rather keep it more vague that openly listing regulations.
i don't think i'll change the deletion process rn, but i'll keep what you said in mind in case it becomes an issue. and yeah definitely on the hiatus stuff- they should let us know beforehand how long they plan on leaving- and if they don't know I'm down with the 2-week process. alright- i'll add that to the prefix rule then!
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 19:09:42 GMT -5
For the queens and genetics, I use a generator that helps me with my cats. I suggested it because I've seen it be a common pet peeve. Some pairings will have a lot of options while some won't. My main stance is to prevent a situation like Thunder. With his parents being gray and he being ginger, that doesn't make sense, even for Warriors standards which usually combines coloring, has the litter or litters be a copy of their parent, or they take coloring from a close relative (Jayfeather has gray relatives on both sides). Like Sparkpelt with Squirrelflight and Bramblestar with Tigerstar. It technically does limit, but if we provide resources, we can ensure confidence. However, I'm also open to using more "traditional Warriors" genetics as long as it isn't like Thunder. So a pairing like SorrelxBracken could have some limits in a way, but we can have a pairing like FirexSand have possibilities other than ginger of we know some kin.
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Post by lazy penguin on Jan 24, 2019 19:45:33 GMT -5
See but people on fanclans do follow basic genetics though. Like I've never ever ran into someone who tries to stretch genetics more than they do in the books. I really don't think we need to state it unless we were going to be super critical when it came to genetics. And also- generators can take a lot if fun out of the heart of designing a character. Like, it just takes away the creative aspect unless you truly had no idea for a character design.
And like, sorry if this offends anyone, but I always found restricting designs to be a little ridiculous. I mean, what difference does it make if the kit if two grey cats had ginger fur? It doesn't define the character. It doesn't make them a mary-sue or a perfect character. It is literally harmless. If someone has a badass design for a character, why not let them have it? And if your argument is realism, I don't understand why your stressing physical appearance out of all things? Like stress character deaths, starvation, diseases, all things that might actually affect the plot. But character designs? Do they really matter that much?
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 20:04:01 GMT -5
But I really don't want a cat that someone used some art generator to make, either. I do want some sense of genetics, and it honestly bugs me if we don't do some kind of regulation. In addition, if we relax on character designs to where we don't care, that can make some think we will be lax with character deaths and things that do affect the plot.
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Post by mimikyutie on Jan 24, 2019 20:22:26 GMT -5
I'm just adding my two cents on cat realism, my rule of thumb is generally if you can't find a real life picture of a cat that looks like your character, then you should probably change the appearance up.
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Post by Phoenixstar on Jan 24, 2019 21:43:01 GMT -5
I agree with Penguin, you cant get too realistic with warriors or there'd be no warriors, since feral cats often never help out other feral cats in the wild, and Cats have more than one mate and never have the mate round after that, Warriors does stretch somethings, but thats why its a fantasy book, so my 2 cents as well is keep to natural colours but dont stress on colourings, if you stress genetics make sure its something you actually need, example
A Windclan cat having large paws because they have some Thunderclan Descent, Split faces or Chimera, and stuff born purely out of genetics.
Also, we arent provided with an entire family tree, so you cant really pull a "you cant ave the cat not be similar to i parents" idea because genetics don't work like that, many colourings are recessive and some more dominant than others, somewhere there could have been a recessive gene and we all know most clan cats are related, so its possible for many recessive genes get passed around.
Just let roleplayers have fun with the fantasy cat series where cats have powers, and see dead cats.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 22:21:27 GMT -5
It may be a fantasy series and have unrealistic elements, but the Erins have established some sense of realism. I don't really like the idea of "free for all." Plus, some people will probably want to have specific breeds. Are we going to say no to them because it borders on realistic, as some breeds have very defining features? I say if we don't have a family history, they should at least look like the parent. Especially, if we're not going to go for straight genetics. It's not as limiting as some would say, in addition, as while you may not be able to have a ginger cat be the kit of a gray cat, does that ginger cat really need that gray cat to be a parent? People come up with a lot of variations of characters ranging from multiple names, to different gender versions, and design versions. I don't see why it is free when we can come up with something. And really, the genetics thing can come into a side plot, as if one kit doesn't look like the father or they don't look like the father at all and look like another tom, then it cause some interesting drama. With "free for all" you can't do that.
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Post by mimikyutie on Jan 24, 2019 22:26:30 GMT -5
That could still work in a free for all.
"Hey, this kit looks suspiciously like this other tom"
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 22:35:06 GMT -5
That could still work in a free for all. "Hey, this kit looks suspiciously like this other tom" Not really? It feels cheaper compared to having genetics. I really don't want to feel like I have to accept someone that wants to be related to my cat and has no real resemblance. That also assumes something about someone else's character. If I could, I'd have family trees lined out for every cat, but that'd be way too many characters and I don't want someone to assume something about my character just so they can have a specific character. That's just one example.
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Post by mimikyutie on Jan 24, 2019 22:36:40 GMT -5
Also, if it's too strict, it might intimidate people who want to join tbh, and multi-clans need a decent amount of members to thrive.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 22:39:16 GMT -5
With the activity of Fan Clans, I'm more worried about the activity of members over the number. In addition, we're kind of pretty relax. The only thing that is "strict" is the prefix rule, which I think limits more than genetics as the genetics thing can encourage a nice little challenge. I can also see someone being more upset about a name instead of a physical design of a character due to some simple, easy, and nice prefixes possibly being taken and some prefixes being too "out there" to accept. I have seen people decide to no longer join a Clan not because of their design, but because of a name. The only time it was over a design because of the cat being a specific breed that is not common in that area and with them being more wild cat than domestic cat.
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Post by mimikyutie on Jan 24, 2019 22:41:47 GMT -5
Limiting genetics and forcing family trees is pretty intimidating.
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Post by ʙᴜᴍʙʟᴇʙᴇᴇ » on Jan 24, 2019 22:42:52 GMT -5
speaking for myself, i agree with rain. genetics is important - and maybe being a tiny bit lax on genetics is fine, but a 'free for all' often leads to cats/litters that physically would not happen, even as far as we've seen in the books. it might be intimidating, but to some so is a (insert number) sentence limit. or a "have this many cats before this cat can be made" rule, or a "no more than this number of prefixes" rule. any single rule we've already come up with could be intimidating - but we've all used them anyways, yeah?
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Post by -` percy ´- .✫ 🌊 on Jan 24, 2019 22:43:40 GMT -5
Maybe we could just link a genetics website in the threads?? Maybe it can only apply to litters of kits, since that's the only time it'll really be needed???
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Post by mimikyutie on Jan 24, 2019 22:44:23 GMT -5
Maybe encouraged but not forced?
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Post by -` percy ´- .✫ 🌊 on Jan 24, 2019 22:48:35 GMT -5
Maybe encourged to at least make the kits look like the parents if they really do not want to use the genetics calculator, we really cannot make them.
but if two gray tabbies have kittens, it wouldn't make sense for them to have a ginger kitten. it just wouldn't make sense
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 22:48:45 GMT -5
Maybe encouraged but not forced? Honestly, if I have the option, I'm going to want more genetically accurate cats of some kind over people being allowed to ignore a request. It's not like we're going to force specifics such as tabby markings, sizes, and eye colors, but colors and if they have white. And it isn't like we have to have a brown tabby x brown tabby pairing and no other. Some combinations allow for more diversity than others.
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Post by Phoenixstar on Jan 24, 2019 22:51:40 GMT -5
and only enforced if you are linked with another roleplayers cat family wise? if you are relating your own cats then it wouldn't matter as you would know all the genetics, and if you have kits they should resemble the parents and if you variate then you gotta make or show another character w/ the character and the other person would have to agree, so lots of planning would be need, even that might scare off younger, newer roleplayers.
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Post by ʙᴜᴍʙʟᴇʙᴇᴇ » on Jan 24, 2019 22:56:57 GMT -5
okay here's the thing - literally if someone was worried about genetics we could help them? it's not like we would expect them to figure everything out on their own. you don't necessarily have to make a new cat in order to mention them in family history? two of my characters have previous family, and that family could be used as reason for variation in coloring
and all they'd have to do is ask? if anything, we could say "hey - that coat color doesn't match those parents. maybe is there a family member that they look like? or is that dad not the dad?" or something like that. like - it's not that complicated?
sorry if i sound rude i'm in a lowkey irritable headspace right now and i don't intend to come off mean
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 22:59:39 GMT -5
If you have a gray cat and a ginger cat and they're yours and they're siblings, then chances are they come from a tortie/dilute tortie or a patched tabby or some other willing variation that allows that. If you don't have the parents listed, then okay, I can't make an argument and you're good. However, if you're going to be the kit of my cat and my cat's mate is a certain color and I have used a generator and the kit doesn't match, then I'm going to ask it be changed. Kits don't have to resemble a parent if we use a generator and you have the option. It's not a big discussion that needs to happen, and communication can help with better bonding. A role-play that has decent structure will most likely attract role-players over one that is a bit loose. We need a strong foundation and with how relaxed we are with some things, especially activity because requiring to be on too much can kill over "hey, we ask you use genetics, we can help you with that with this." If we have "free for all" genetics, then I think we should have a more loose prefix rule and a stricter apprentice rule. I'm going to reiterate the idea that having set genetics can help creativity. Duskstar may be the father of Skunkpaw and Springpaw, right? Well, if his mate was black & white, blue & white, calico/tortie, or dilute calico/dilute tortie, then they fit. The only two variations that don't mix are cream and white and red and white. I was looking for different tabbies that could result in their design and I was really wanting a brown tabby. Well, knowing that it could possibly not happen because I have to use a generator, I had a back-up character in mind. I don't think that's too much to ask the other way around or if a cat has a set parent.
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Post by -` percy ´- .✫ 🌊 on Jan 24, 2019 23:03:56 GMT -5
It's literally only going to be used for litters that come from queens too, so i don't understand why it can't be a rule? Or at least a very lenient rule where it isn't required, but it's very looked towards and we want some realism
Like we can literally help them. There are online calculators for this. We can give them the links, or Rain (or myself, but i'm not the best with it) could literally do the genetics ourselves. I know that if my cats have kits, i want them to at least be semi accurate..
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Post by Phoenixstar on Jan 24, 2019 23:08:00 GMT -5
Well i personally am just gonna stand neutral, but if this becomes a rule i will have to review some relations that i have with other roleplayers, If it becomes a rule then i too cna do the genetics, as i study them in my free time as i find them very interesting.
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Post by Phoenixstar on Jan 24, 2019 23:08:52 GMT -5
Well i personally am just gonna stand neutral, but if this becomes a rule i will have to review some relations that i have with other roleplayers, If it becomes a rule then i too cna do the genetics, as i study them in my free time as i find them very interesting.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 23:10:34 GMT -5
I mean, chances are, I'm going to have to change some of my cats around. I did that when I noticed some prefixes I was hoping for were taken. You just adapt to the situation.
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Jan 24, 2019 23:17:19 GMT -5
Yo, off-topic, but I was wanting to see if Ross, Drea, Kale, and Peng were chill with Duskstar maybe losing his memory for a short time or maybe lost his memory already for a short period to where he forgets his kits? Maybe that sparks a little romantic conflict between his ex mate and current mate? (if he still has her) It'd be short and he'd either learn about what happened or regain his memory after some event like maybe saving Springpaw? If you are okay with him being the dad, Peng.
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Post by ʙᴜᴍʙʟᴇʙᴇᴇ » on Jan 24, 2019 23:27:01 GMT -5
i'm definitely okay with it and i want springpaw to suffer once he finds out who his dad is and realizes he doesn't remember him c:< c:<
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Post by -` percy ´- .✫ 🌊 on Jan 25, 2019 0:15:47 GMT -5
I am on that boat- i love the thought and making characters suffer bc maplepaw will be so upset
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Post by ʙᴜᴍʙʟᴇʙᴇᴇ » on Jan 25, 2019 0:25:01 GMT -5
oh shoot i gotta add leafpaw to my list xD
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Post by lazy penguin on Jan 25, 2019 15:46:59 GMT -5
yo, i'm chill with dusk being the dad, just with the memory thing you need a good reason for it that like, makes sense within the realms of the rp.
i'm going to respond to everything else in a separate post!
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