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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 21:57:30 GMT -5
You know what I haven’t read a new warrior book in a while but I might actually get this one. me too!! i gave up the main series. im only here for the crowfeather SE now lmao ^Me. I legitimately think this book is hinting toward Nightcloud and Crowfeather getting back together. I really don't want that to be the case. I'd be fine with them being at peace with one another, but I don't think they should be mates.
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 22:07:00 GMT -5
Funny enough, and I know I'll probably be heavily disagreed with on this... but this is the one time in Warrors where I wouldn't mind if a couple got back together. I 'unno. I never hated them together. I disliked what they created (Breezepelt, because of how badly both screwed up), but as a couple, I didn't mind them much. Other couples getting back together like Squirrelflight and Bramblestar irked me, and I know Crowfeather and Nightcloud are arguably less healthier than those two, buuuttt...yeah. You didn't want SquirrelxBramble back together?! I don't really hate them together either, I find them interesting, but I don't really see why they should be mates, especially now that it's canon that Crowfeather never actually loved her. I find it very hard to see them being in a loving relationship. I'm also LeafxCrow trash so there's that.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 22, 2018 22:11:47 GMT -5
They better not be implying they'll get back together. I've been itching for Crow and Night to actually break up and it'd be annoying as all kitty hell for that to be thrown out just like that.
Again, there's no point if they don't even like each other anymore. They better fricking STAY split because that whole ordeal between them was unhealthy.
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 22:40:56 GMT -5
Well, I'm just basing this off of how he was talking about how hot she looked when they were hunting. But maybe that's just Crowfeather being himself.
Also, I was completely taken aback that they used the term "mated with" and I also kind of took this one line about Feathertail the wrong way: "She is so beautiful! I don't want to die before I get the chance to...." (Am I reading too much into this? I think I am.)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 22:42:42 GMT -5
I'm rather concerned about them re-entering a relationship as well. We always talk about how some cats are better off single (cough thornclaw) and Crowfeather and Nightcloud are the poster boys of cats who should never get back together. Sometimes, exes just need to stay exes, lol. I wouldn't mind if they were able to settle their differences and end up as friends, though.
I have absolutely no issue with Gorsetail wishing death on Breezepelt. Totally understandable. Love you for being brave enough to say it out loud. I'm also pleased to see Crowfeather lowkey agreeing with her. Gotta love some eff-ed up family dynamics. A father who secretly thinks his son should be dead, a son who hates his father with his entire being, and the divorced parents who can hardly speak to each other. Bring it on. I hope they make me severely uncomfortable.
Overall, I'm pleasantly surprised with what we've got so far. I was not expecting the prologue to be flashbacks to Feather and Leaf, and it was cool to see Feathertail's death from Crow's POV. The writing style feels a bit... weak. but as long as the story is good I can overlook that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 22:46:47 GMT -5
Well, I'm just basing this off of how he was talking about how hot she looked when they were hunting. But maybe that's just Crowfeather being himself. Also, I was completely taken aback that they used the term "mated with" and I also kind of took this one line about Feathertail the wrong way: "She is so beautiful! I don't want to die before I get the chance to...." (Am I reading too much into this? I think I am.) Nope, that line had me thinking in the wrong direction as well, lol. made me feel like a 12 year old, but I am what I am. They've used the "mated with" thing before, in Shattered Sky, when Onestar was talking about his affair with Smoke. Perhaps they're aware that most of the people who still read warriors are older audiences who have been reading the books for a long time, who knows
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 22, 2018 22:48:51 GMT -5
Well, I'm just basing this off of how he was talking about how hot she looked when they were hunting. But maybe that's just Crowfeather being himself. Also, I was completely taken aback that they used the term "mated with" and I also kind of took this one line about Feathertail the wrong way: "She is so beautiful! I don't want to die before I get the chance to...." (Am I reading too much into this? I think I am.) *SNERK*Nah I'm not surprised ya think that way, then again they went that far in AVoS when Onestar was telling his Darktail story. I was like "Ohoh Woah dang, getting explicit ain't it?" at first, but then I remembered they've been doing implications like that for a long while now (I still remember stuff like Birchfall and Whitewing "gossiping", and especially Dovepaw literally tuning out Bracken and Sorrel about to get down. LOL). So I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to just be all upfront about it at that point, seems like one of those things kids won't get, but adults surely will. Ya know like how other stuff suited for kids has the occasional adult joke slipped in, because it probably implies they're aware of the grown-up part of the fanbase now I think. I don't mind it, I mean, how else are kits gonna be made? Cuddling together? x3
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 22:55:11 GMT -5
Well, I'm just basing this off of how he was talking about how hot she looked when they were hunting. But maybe that's just Crowfeather being himself. Also, I was completely taken aback that they used the term "mated with" and I also kind of took this one line about Feathertail the wrong way: "She is so beautiful! I don't want to die before I get the chance to...." (Am I reading too much into this? I think I am.) Nope, that line had me thinking in the wrong direction as well, lol. made me feel like a 12 year old, but I am what I am. They've used the "mated with" thing before, in Shattered Sky, when Onestar was talking about his affair with Smoke. Perhaps they're aware that most of the people who still read warriors are older audiences who have been reading the books for a long time, who knows Wooo I'm not alone!! I felt so silly for giggling at it. Really?! That's so interesting. It's probably true that those reading the newer Warriors books are older now. I will say, though, that I was at my cousin's basketball game and I saw a kid who looked about 10-12 years old reading Dark River. If kids are reading the newer books, I'm just going to assume that for most, that sort of thing goes over their heads.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Aug 22, 2018 22:59:28 GMT -5
Gotta love some eff-ed up family dynamics. A father who secretly thinks his son should be dead, a son who hates his father with his entire being, and the divorced parents who can hardly speak to each other. Bring it on. I hope they make me severely uncomfortable. This made me laugh, because heck yeah. The dynamics are gonna be interesting, at the very least.
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Asexual
Mayflower
I am a Daisy and Ferncloud stan first, and a human being second
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Post by Mayflower on Aug 22, 2018 23:00:47 GMT -5
Funny enough, and I know I'll probably be heavily disagreed with on this... but this is the one time in Warrors where I wouldn't mind if a couple got back together. I 'unno. I never hated them together. I disliked what they created (Breezepelt, because of how badly both screwed up), but as a couple, I didn't mind them much. Other couples getting back together like Squirrelflight and Bramblestar irked me, and I know Crowfeather and Nightcloud are arguably less healthier than those two, buuuttt...yeah. You didn't want SquirrelxBramble back together?! I don't really hate them together either, I find them interesting, but I don't really see why they should be mates, especially now that it's canon that Crowfeather never actually loved her. I find it very hard to see them being in a loving relationship. I'm also LeafxCrow trash so there's that.Different strokes for different people I hate SquirrelBramble together. I actually don't like any ships with Crow, but for some odd reason, CrowNight is at the bottom of the list for the ones I dislike, if I had to number them (with LeafCrow at the top, unfortunately, then FeatherCrow).
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 23:02:08 GMT -5
Well, I'm just basing this off of how he was talking about how hot she looked when they were hunting. But maybe that's just Crowfeather being himself. Also, I was completely taken aback that they used the term "mated with" and I also kind of took this one line about Feathertail the wrong way: "She is so beautiful! I don't want to die before I get the chance to...." (Am I reading too much into this? I think I am.) *SNERK*Nah I'm not surprised ya think that way, then again they went that far in AVoS when Onestar was telling his Darktail story. I was like "Ohoh Woah dang, getting explicit ain't it?" at first, but then I remembered they've been doing implications like that for a long while now (I still remember stuff like Birchfall and Whitewing "gossiping", and especially Dovepaw literally tuning out Bracken and Sorrel about to get down LOL). So I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to just be all upfront about it at that point, seems like one of those things kids won't get, but adults surely will. Ya know like how other stuff suited for kids has the occasional adult joke slipped in, because it probably implies they're aware of the grown-up part of the fanbase now I think. I don't mind it, I mean, how else are kits gonna be made? Cuddling together? x3 Wow. I have to go and read this whole Onestar thing now. That's so funny. I remember that BrackenxSorrel moment vividly, lol, and a few other parts that made me go "Uhhh....?" (Not to mention Bluestar's Prophecy) I honestly don't mind it either, but I always find it funny when the Erins throw it in.
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Post by hieveryone on Aug 22, 2018 23:05:19 GMT -5
You didn't want SquirrelxBramble back together?! I don't really hate them together either, I find them interesting, but I don't really see why they should be mates, especially now that it's canon that Crowfeather never actually loved her. I find it very hard to see them being in a loving relationship. I'm also LeafxCrow trash so there's that.Different strokes for different people I hate SquirrelBramble together. I actually don't like any ships with Crow, but for some odd reason, CrowNight is at the bottom of the list for the ones I dislike, if I had to number them (with LeafCrow at the top, unfortunately, then FeatherCrow). Whelp, we'll just agree to disagree, ha. If they do put CrowxNight back together, though, I think there needs to be some serious buildup/reconciliation. And I would appreciate a lot of flashbacks detailing exactly how their relationship went down in the first place (it's such a mystery!!).
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 22, 2018 23:51:02 GMT -5
*KICKS DOWN A DOOR*
HELLO YES??? I CAME FOR THAT CONTENT!
Okay but seriously, so far I'm liking it.
> Nightcloud being shown as an amazing and beautiful hunter, and respected member of the clan like she deserves. (You missed out on all of that Crowfeather, smh) Glad they're over, hope she finds someone else that will put her first instead.
> Crow's pov is already irritating. Like did you seriously agree with other cats, inwardly, about wanting your son to be iced. What the heck?? You really wanna know why your son is the way he is hunh??? HM>??? I wonder why???????
> Real talk, I wasn't ready for that prolouge. Feathertail's death still shook me.
> HARESPRING HARESPING HARESPRING <3
> I'm glad at least Heather hangs out with Breeze, considering the rest of his clanmates want him to conveniently "disappear".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 23:54:07 GMT -5
I feel like I'm the only person who just wanted to read the book because it's Crowfeather's PoV, I really couldn't care less for the other cats.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 23, 2018 0:00:25 GMT -5
I would have preferred Harespring's pov, because I know Crow's is mostly a sob story (lol and behold they started with it right off the bat too) and he'll pretty much either play dumb at why things are the way they are or blame everyone else. Oof.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 5:47:01 GMT -5
I don't think Crowfeather should be blamed for Breezepelt's actions. While Crowfeather wasn't a very good father, he certainly wasn't that bad to warrent what Breezepelt did. Breezepelt was an adult when he chose to make the choices he did. He was old enough to understand the consequences of his actions, and he didn't care. Just because someone has neglectful parents growing up doesn't excuse the poor choices they decide to make on their own as adults. Also, not to mention if all of Breezepelt's behavior is because of Crowfeather, then why didn't Breezepelt take his anger out on Crowfeather? I know it was mentioned in the books, but it was never acted on. I feel like if all of this was because Crowfeather neglected him as a child that Breezepelt would try to take his anger out on Crowfeather personally instead of targeting random cats who had nothing to do with the situation. Even in the final battle Breezepelt is more worried about getting revenge against Lionblaze who did nothing to him besides exist and be his half brother than he is Crowfeather. He doesn't even fight against his father when Crowfeather pulls him off Lionblaze, and then he runs away. Honestly I always got the interrpretation that Breezepelt acted out because he didn't like that Crowfeather was the three's father. As soon as he found that out, that's when he started acting out and they were already his target. He tries to kill Jayfeather, gloats over Hollyleaf's death, and then in TLH when Breeze tries to kill Lion, Ivy asks him if he really wants to fight for Brokenstar. Breeze says this isnt about Broken, but that the three should have never been born. Why would he feel so strongly about this and say this is his reasoning if it's really because of Crowfeather? Crowfeather didn't raise them so I know it isn't a jealousy thing. Also going back to what I said earlier, if it was about Crowfeather then why didn't Breezepelt confront him? All he says is that he thought his father hated him, but he never blames him or really says anything else and instead just runs away. I feel like Breezepelt should have tried to get his revenge on Crowfeather in that moment if all of it was because of him Honestly, I don't think Crowfeather is even neglectful. There's almost no scene with Crowfeather in Power of Three and Omen of the Stars where Breezepelt isn't also present. Honestly, I'd say Crowfeather has the most interaction with his son, then any other father in the series, even those who are considered good. Personally, I say the problem lays within the fact the family is too dysfunctional, unable to give each other space and just can't stop arguing. I agree that you on fact Breezepelt's main aim was the three and never really Crowfeather. The Dark Forest purposefully exaggerating it to manipulate him. As for Breezepelt himself, I feel like he used Crowfeather as an excuse/scapegoat, for himself and others to target anyone he wishes. Putting the blame on Crowfeather, so he doesn't need to feel guilty/reasonable for it later on.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 6:02:40 GMT -5
WHY DID I THINK IT WAS A NOVELLA THIS WHOLE TIME AND NOT A FRICKING SE IM SO DUMB
but hey,, I think we have a SE from every clan now We're had Super Editions for all the Clans since 2013.
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Post by briarfrost on Aug 23, 2018 8:37:43 GMT -5
I don't think Crowfeather should be blamed for Breezepelt's actions. While Crowfeather wasn't a very good father, he certainly wasn't that bad to warrent what Breezepelt did. Breezepelt was an adult when he chose to make the choices he did. He was old enough to understand the consequences of his actions, and he didn't care. Just because someone has neglectful parents growing up doesn't excuse the poor choices they decide to make on their own as adults. Also, not to mention if all of Breezepelt's behavior is because of Crowfeather, then why didn't Breezepelt take his anger out on Crowfeather? I know it was mentioned in the books, but it was never acted on. I feel like if all of this was because Crowfeather neglected him as a child that Breezepelt would try to take his anger out on Crowfeather personally instead of targeting random cats who had nothing to do with the situation. Even in the final battle Breezepelt is more worried about getting revenge against Lionblaze who did nothing to him besides exist and be his half brother than he is Crowfeather. He doesn't even fight against his father when Crowfeather pulls him off Lionblaze, and then he runs away. Honestly I always got the interrpretation that Breezepelt acted out because he didn't like that Crowfeather was the three's father. As soon as he found that out, that's when he started acting out and they were already his target. He tries to kill Jayfeather, gloats over Hollyleaf's death, and then in TLH when Breeze tries to kill Lion, Ivy asks him if he really wants to fight for Brokenstar. Breeze says this isnt about Broken, but that the three should have never been born. Why would he feel so strongly about this and say this is his reasoning if it's really because of Crowfeather? Crowfeather didn't raise them so I know it isn't a jealousy thing. Also going back to what I said earlier, if it was about Crowfeather then why didn't Breezepelt confront him? All he says is that he thought his father hated him, but he never blames him or really says anything else and instead just runs away. I feel like Breezepelt should have tried to get his revenge on Crowfeather in that moment if all of it was because of him Honestly, I don't think Crowfeather is even neglectful. *twitches* I'm just gonna copy + paste something else I wrote on this: I also think people are too quick to write off how terrible a dad Crowfeather really is. It's not just fan interpretation; when all three of the PoT protagonists comments on him being horrible, it's kinda hammering in that he is. Like 'stern' would be scolding your son when he does things wrong, but also guiding him to do right. The kind of dad you groan about because he's super strict, but know he has your best interests at heart. Constantly doubting your son's ability to do stuff (like a simple barrier check), never showing pride when he does things right (the pigeon in Eclipse), being overall unenthusiastic about his presence (saying "well I GUESS he has to come"), and putting him down instead of trying to explain ("you'll never understand loyalty", or how about just saying WHY you should help again)? That's not stern, that's outright negligent of his job as a father and role model. Abusive at worst.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 8:54:04 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think Crowfeather is even neglectful. *twitches* I'm just gonna copy + paste something else I wrote on this: I also think people are too quick to write off how terrible a dad Crowfeather really is. It's not just fan interpretation; when all three of the PoT protagonists comments on him being horrible, it's kinda hammering in that he is. Like 'stern' would be scolding your son when he does things wrong, but also guiding him to do right. The kind of dad you groan about because he's super strict, but know he has your best interests at heart. Constantly doubting your son's ability to do stuff (like a simple barrier check), never showing pride when he does things right (the pigeon in Eclipse), being overall unenthusiastic about his presence (saying "well I GUESS he has to come"), and putting him down instead of trying to explain ("you'll never understand loyalty", or how about just saying WHY you should help again)? That's not stern, that's outright negligent of his job as a father and role model. Abusive at worst. But my point still stands, out of all the things he is, Neglectful isn't one of them. In fact it's the complete opposite, they can't seem to get away from each other.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Aug 23, 2018 9:12:50 GMT -5
Ya know, verbal abuse is still abuse, so is neglect, another form of abuse, and the fact that it was proven in canon Crowfeather and Breezepelt had a strained relationship time and time again, didn't help. Yeah, Breeze turned out to be a crappy kid when he was older, but Crow has zero excuses for how he treated his son, a blank slate at the time when he was a kit. The preview doesn't even hide that at. Crow never loved Night, doubt he loved his own son, and only used them both to be loyal. It's one thing to do it to Nightcloud, but Breeze was innocent, and it's obvious that affected him when he was older. Children are very impressionable and can be molded by older people around them along with their environment. Breezepelt heavily blames Crowfeather for their screwed up family situation, he's not wrong either, and thus it was easy for the DF to influence him later on. Taking advantage of his hatred for his father and fueling it. If Crowfeather was even half the father that Bramblestar was, yeah and I don't even like Bramble, then maybe his kid wouldn't have turned out so messed up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 9:18:03 GMT -5
Nightcloud is just as abusive... She literally unsheathed her claws, dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool, while Crowfeather defends himself ws a retort... yet I see no one attacking her for this... just wanted to point that out.. I'm not looking for a debate lol.
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Post by Moonblazer on Aug 23, 2018 9:34:36 GMT -5
Nightcloud is just as abusive... She literally unsheathed her claws, dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool, while Crowfeather defends himself ws a retort... yet I see no one attacking her for this... just wanted to point that out.. I'm not looking for a debate lol. Not debating, but while she could have handled it better, Nightcloud’s actions are still faarrrr less abusive than Crowfeathers. She clawed Crowfeather away from an enemy cat once, while Crowfeather continually and canonically neglected and abused their kit, never loved her once, and still has not taken any responsability for it. I’m not excusing Nightcloud, but she is nowhere near as abusive as Crowfeather.
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Post by briarfrost on Aug 23, 2018 9:39:42 GMT -5
Nightcloud is just as abusive... She literally unsheathed her claws, dragging Crowfeather away from Leafpool, while Crowfeather defends himself ws a retort... yet I see no one attacking her for this... just wanted to point that out.. I'm not looking for a debate lol. Not debating, but while she could have handled it better, Nightcloud’s actions are still faarrrr less abusive than Crowfeathers. She clawed Crowfeather away from an enemy cat once, while Crowfeather continually and canonically neglected and abused their kit, never loved her once, and still has not taken any responsability for it. I’m not excusing Nightcloud, but she is nowhere near as abusive as Crowfeather. Also, it's not the focus of the discussion, which is about Crowfeather's abusive/neglectful behavior towards his son. That's why no one brought it up.
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Post by briarfrost on Aug 23, 2018 9:42:34 GMT -5
*twitches* I'm just gonna copy + paste something else I wrote on this: I also think people are too quick to write off how terrible a dad Crowfeather really is. It's not just fan interpretation; when all three of the PoT protagonists comments on him being horrible, it's kinda hammering in that he is. Like 'stern' would be scolding your son when he does things wrong, but also guiding him to do right. The kind of dad you groan about because he's super strict, but know he has your best interests at heart. Constantly doubting your son's ability to do stuff (like a simple barrier check), never showing pride when he does things right (the pigeon in Eclipse), being overall unenthusiastic about his presence (saying "well I GUESS he has to come"), and putting him down instead of trying to explain ("you'll never understand loyalty", or how about just saying WHY you should help again)? That's not stern, that's outright negligent of his job as a father and role model. Abusive at worst. But my point still stands, out of all the things he is, Neglectful isn't one of them. In fact it's the complete opposite, they can't seem to get away from each other. Not doing his job as a father is entirely what neglectful is. Being physically around his son doesn't matter if he's not emotionally there for him, or constantly verbally berating/abusing him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 9:44:57 GMT -5
I mean right off the bad I don't know I guess I'm ok with them getting back together but... I just can't really see it as "getting back together" when it's obvious they were never really together in the first place, they just used each other. And if they were to officially try to be an actual couple and not just together for practical reasons they'd have to start at square one again, which obviously won't happen unless a, b, c, d, e, and z - Breezepelt - happen.
With them possibly getting back together this isn't like Bramblestar and Squirrelflight where the elephant in the room was clear: Bramblestar's stubbornness to acknowledge that he still loves Squirrelflight. Everything else was fixed/fixable- they were on good social terms again especially since she was deputy, their adopted kits were clan heroes and one was off starting his own family and, obviously, Bramblestar had gotten what he always wanted- leadership. Crowfeather has just gotten snubbed by a dark forest trainee and it even says most of the WindClan cats were surprised.
So yeah, I'm just worried it's either going to be too rushed or not make any sense considering all the obstacles they have, and things have to go really well for it to do so. Yes, Crowfeather is obviously going to become deputy relatively soon, and Breezepelt is going to get preoccupied with his mate and kits and assumably move on... but there are so many other things in the way it just doesn't feel right.
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Post by vectoring34 on Aug 23, 2018 9:47:43 GMT -5
If Bramblestar can get away with never telling Squirrelflight about training in Hell and actively considering whether or not to kill her father then Crowfeather can get away with what he did. It would not surprise me at all if he and Nightcloud got back together.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 23, 2018 9:56:47 GMT -5
I've kinda just accepted that Crowfeather is just not dad material at all at his point. I mean his POV does show he has some "internal demons" about it all, and while I don't agree with him silently agreeing with others that Breezepelt should be dead, the guy at least has the decency, or what little left thereof, to be bothered by what they're saying in the first place.
Honestly, until I get a PDF of the full book I can't be certain how he'll handle the situation. But I've always just came to the conclusion long ago that he is forever just a bitter guy who's emotionally distant from his son (I like to imagine it's out of fear of growing too attached in case he loses someone he cares about again, if his history is any indication) and it's coming back to bite him in the tail or something. Crowfeather's always been a mystery when it came to his Windclan family, at least considering we're always in the perspective of TC, and was kinda stagnant in the third and fourth arcs as a character. If we're lucky he might actually get some much needed development, but as of now it's hard to judge.
And as for the SE seeming short, IIRC that seems like near standard length. CP is 35 chapters, FQ is 40, SD is 35, BS is 35, MFV is 36... So CT being 34 is only just one below what is probably the minimum of SE chapters, but it's still near the minimum length. I guess it just depends on how much for the plot they've put in plus any filler stuff with that. So I'm fine with the length it has on that note.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2018 10:12:42 GMT -5
Yeeeesh, this topic went from people who were happy about the sample to debates about whether Crow is a bad dad or not.
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Post by Brindlefern on Aug 23, 2018 10:22:53 GMT -5
Yeeeesh, this topic went from people who were happy about the sample to debates about whether Crow is a bad dad or not. What'd ya expect in a book about Crowfeather? I saw it coming honestly. I'm still antsy to read it tho, simply because it does seem like it'd be somewhat interesting. (Also I want more Featherpaw, she's a bean)
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