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Ivy x Fern
Sept 12, 2017 16:46:04 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 16:46:04 GMT -5
The reason people judge them based on screentime is because it feels unrealistic and forced to others if we don't see them often enough together. A perfect example for this would be Blossom x Thorn. Besides the scenes from Dovewing's Silence, did we ever see them together in the Dark Forest much? No they were never together. We've seen them talking to each other about it, but we've never seen them have romantic feelings for each other. It's the same for Fire x Spotted, or Silver x Gray. The two couples hardly meet, they see each other once and suddenly they're in love? The Erins can't write romance. They're probably not even handling Fernsong right. He's literally there for Ivypool's love life, which is unnecessary because she doesn't need a mate to be happy. The only decent one that's actually well written is Fire x Sand, but even then that one feels a little forced. People especially feel like Fernsong is forced upon Ivypool because that's the only reason he exists. There's no other reason why he's there except for being a useless minor character. Ivypool doesn't need a mate, period. No one needs a mate, yet they have them. Just because they don't need one doesn't mean they shouldn't. And it isn't like she's unhappy without Fernsong. The only thing making her unhappy is TigerxDove, which is ten times more unnecessary than IvyxFern. I didn't even bring up Tiger x Dove, lol. And the Erins are only shoving romance down our throats so ThunderClan can keep growing. Which doesn't really seem fair, considering how many cats SC has left. The Erins cannot write romance. If they're going to have romance at all, at least write them correctly instead of making each couple forbidden or poorly written. Fernsong isn't handled right. He's a pointless background character ThunderClan doesn't need and only exists for Ivypool.
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Ivy x Fern
Sept 12, 2017 16:53:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 16:53:48 GMT -5
ThunderClan has too much author favoritism. Kits keep popping out, they have three medicine cats, for StarClan's sake, while ShadowClan is suffering with only just a few warriors. At least Dovewing is helping the Clan by giving up her kits, even if her choice of moving in was poor. I don't understand why the Erins give ShadowClan such a hard time while ThunderClan has it easy. ShadowClan needs kits more than ThunderClan. They'll just become like useless background characters. It's likely Ivypool will have kits with Fernsong, since Shadowkit had the vision. While it may not be confirmed, who else is silver and white? Sounds like Ivypool to me.
Again I don't even dislike Fern x Ivy, but it's another couple with kits added that isn't needed, and Ivypool is just fine on her own. The Erins just need to stop making females have babies, TC is fine. SC needs them more.
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Post by *Faith* on Sept 12, 2017 17:32:46 GMT -5
Well, Kate officially confirmed on her Blog that Ivypool will be getting a mate in DN. Not surprised it will be in a book she wrote. I can't wait to meet her kits, whenever they'll be born.
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Bisexual
#ffc5c5
Official Queen of Fan Clans
Name Colour
ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁
Official ThunderClan & ElmClan Leader
Easing back in
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Post by ʀᴀɪɴʟᴇᴀғ 🍁 on Sept 12, 2017 17:34:49 GMT -5
No one needs a mate, yet they have them. Just because they don't need one doesn't mean they shouldn't. And it isn't like she's unhappy without Fernsong. The only thing making her unhappy is TigerxDove, which is ten times more unnecessary than IvyxFern. I didn't even bring up Tiger x Dove, lol. And the Erins are only shoving romance down our throats so ThunderClan can keep growing. Which doesn't really seem fair, considering how many cats SC has left. The Erins cannot write romance. If they're going to have romance at all, at least write them correctly instead of making each couple forbidden or poorly written. Fernsong isn't handled right. He's a pointless background character ThunderClan doesn't need and only exists for Ivypool. You didn't need to? Yet TigerxDove is an example of unnecessary romance. I also brought it up because people assume having a mate will make her happy when she is already happy besides that. I think almost everyone is getting angry about the pairing just because of the poor independent she-cat = no mate/kits. Yeah, it's going to be a bit poorly written, but at least it isn't like BlossomxThorn. If a couple gets legit development, we can be happy about that instead of trying to tear it down.
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Post by kinkajou on Sept 12, 2017 18:31:12 GMT -5
Like...I see Sorreltail as a strong independent female and she had a mate and two litters
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 12, 2017 19:48:22 GMT -5
I am getting sick and tired of hearing "Oh em gee! This ship doesn't have ten books of development, it therefore sucks and must be bashed" over every bloody relationship in this series. Fern and Ivy are background characters. Note the word "background." As in, not the focus of the book. Not focus = romance not getting a lot of screen time. How about instead of judging ships by how much we see them, judge them on what we do see. And what we've seen are two cats who compliment each other nicely and seem to really love each other. The reason people judge them based on screentime is because it feels unrealistic and forced to others if we don't see them often enough together. A perfect example for this would be Blossom x Thorn. Besides the scenes from Dovewing's Silence, did we ever see them together in the Dark Forest much? No they were never together. We've seen them talking to each other about it, but we've never seen them have romantic feelings for each other. It's the same for Fire x Spotted, or Silver x Gray. The two couples hardly meet, they see each other once and suddenly they're in love? The Erins can't write romance. They're probably not even handling Fernsong right. He's literally there for Ivypool's love life, which is unnecessary because she doesn't need a mate to be happy. The only decent one that's actually well written is Fire x Sand, but even then that one feels a little forced. People especially feel like Fernsong is forced upon Ivypool because that's the only reason he exists. There's no other reason why he's there except for being a useless minor character. Ivypool doesn't need a mate, period. Again, they are background characters. They are not the focus of the books. Their relationships are not important in most cases. We do not need to see every single detail. In fact, we really don't need to see anything at all. There are much more important things that needed to be covered in the books, like the Darktail crisis for example? Why would the Erins spend half the book showing us every little of FernxIvy, TigerxDove, ThornxBlossom, etc when they aren't important? Not only is that a waste of pages, it would also mean that the Darktail crisis would be severely rushed or glossed over or TAS would be six hundred pages long. Now THAT would be bad writing. Not showing us needless details of romances not connected to the main plot. This applies to GrayxSilver especially. Not only does it involve two cats we don't have the POVs of, it is also a forbidden romance. In order for it to be "well developed" by your terms, Fireheart would have been following them around all of FAI and FOS. As I just explained with FernxIvy, it would be completely unnecessary as that wasn't the main plot line. We saw them meet, knew they were meeting in secret, Silverstream fell pregnant not long after and the kits were born. That's all we needed to see. The purpose of that relationship was to show the dangers of forbidden romances, and it did just that. I'll do the rest briefly. FirexSpotted wasn't true love, it was infatuation. Infatuation-on-sight is what actually happens when love on sight happens. True love can then develop from that. After TLH, both Thornclaw and Blossomfall became complete irrelevant to the series. I believe only saw both once or twice in the first two books of AVS. The first hint of their romance came in TLH when we saw them playing together. Roughly three years passed between TLH and their kits being born. THREE YEARS. They were together for at least three years before they had kits. How in the name of **** can anyone say that that ship is rushed??? That has to be one of the longest gaps between start of ship and kits we have ever had, if not the longest. Just because we didn't see it on page doesn't mean it wasn't developing. I-I am completely shocked that you could call FirexSand forced. WE HAD AN ENTIRE SERIES OF DEVELOPMENT. That was the best developed ship in the series. I am just so stunned that I don't even know where to begin with this. I will come back to this as need be. Lastly, what do you mean Ivypool doesn't need a mate? Having a mate doesn't change the fact that she is the most talented warrior ThunderClan has at the moment. Nor will having kits. She is and always has been a strong character that hasn't or doesn't need to lean on another one. That most certainly will not change. Especially with someone like Fernsong.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 12, 2017 20:25:02 GMT -5
I kind of agree with Mistybreeze here. For someone who has had the whole "show, don't tell" tip ingrained into my mind ever since I started writing, I'm okay with Ivy x Fern as a couple. Does Ivypool need a mate? No, not really. But I honestly don't really care for her character in general. So long as the Erins actually keep her in character after very likely giving her kits, then I don't mind. Besides, and I stated this before, I'd much rather have Ivypool be in a relationship with a new character than with someone she hardly interacted with from OotS. And at least the relationship is getting built up in a few scenes than not showing them together at all. And from what we've seen, I think it's cute. And like Poppy said, Fern x Ivy isn't the main focus, so it makes sense we aren't going to see them all that much, which is why I don't necessarily hate Gray x Silver or any of the background pairings (though my dislike for Gray x Silver in particular really has more to do with how the characters themselves were utilized, especially Silverstream since she honestly felt more like a plot device than an actual character). Another thing I'd like to point out is that TAQ and SS were written by Cherith while TS (and I think DN as well) was written by Kate, who has shown enthusiasm with shipping Fernsong and Ivypool. With this in mind, it makes sense why we've only seen Ivy x Fern hints in only one book so far. Yeah, I guess it's a little annoying that most cats in the series are getting mates, but there's nothing wrong with that either (still, it would be nice to have another cat who isn't interested in a mate at all, like Hollyleaf was).
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Ivy x Fern
Sept 12, 2017 20:42:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 20:42:35 GMT -5
The reason people judge them based on screentime is because it feels unrealistic and forced to others if we don't see them often enough together. A perfect example for this would be Blossom x Thorn. Besides the scenes from Dovewing's Silence, did we ever see them together in the Dark Forest much? No they were never together. We've seen them talking to each other about it, but we've never seen them have romantic feelings for each other. It's the same for Fire x Spotted, or Silver x Gray. The two couples hardly meet, they see each other once and suddenly they're in love? The Erins can't write romance. They're probably not even handling Fernsong right. He's literally there for Ivypool's love life, which is unnecessary because she doesn't need a mate to be happy. The only decent one that's actually well written is Fire x Sand, but even then that one feels a little forced. People especially feel like Fernsong is forced upon Ivypool because that's the only reason he exists. There's no other reason why he's there except for being a useless minor character. Ivypool doesn't need a mate, period. Again, they are background characters. They are not the focus of the books. Their relationships are not important in most cases. We do not need to see every single detail. In fact, we really don't need to see anything at all. There are much more important things that needed to be covered in the books, like the Darktail crisis for example? Why would the Erins spend half the book showing us every little of FernxIvy, TigerxDove, ThornxBlossom, etc when they aren't important? Not only is that a waste of pages, it would also mean that the Darktail crisis would be severely rushed or glossed over or TAS would be six hundred pages long. Now THAT would be bad writing. Not showing us needless details of romances not connected to the main plot. This applies to GrayxSilver especially. Not only does it involve two cats we don't have the POVs of, it is also a forbidden romance. In order for it to be "well developed" by your terms, Fireheart would have been following them around all of FAI and FOS. As I just explained with FernxIvy, it would be completely unnecessary as that wasn't the main plot line. We saw them meet, knew they were meeting in secret, Silverstream fell pregnant not long after and the kits were born. That's all we needed to see. The purpose of that relationship was to show the dangers of forbidden romances, and it did just that. I'll do the rest briefly. FirexSpotted wasn't true love, it was infatuation. Infatuation-on-sight is what actually happens when love on sight happens. True love can then develop from that. After TLH, both Thornclaw and Blossomfall became complete irrelevant to the series. I believe only saw both once or twice in the first two books of AVS. The first hint of their romance came in TLH when we saw them playing together. Roughly three years passed between TLH and their kits being born. THREE YEARS. They were together for at least three years before they had kits. How in the name of **** can anyone say that that ship is rushed??? That has to be one of the longest gaps between start of ship and kits we have ever had, if not the longest. Just because we didn't see it on page doesn't mean it wasn't developing. I-I am completely shocked that you could call FirexSand forced. WE HAD AN ENTIRE SERIES OF DEVELOPMENT. That was the best developed ship in the series. I am just so stunned that I don't even know where to begin with this. I will come back to this as need be. Lastly, what do you mean Ivypool doesn't need a mate? Having a mate doesn't change the fact that she is the most talented warrior ThunderClan has at the moment. Nor will having kits. She is and always has been a strong character that hasn't or doesn't need to lean on another one. That most certainly will not change. Especially with someone like Fernsong. Why in the heck are you getting so mad over this? You do realize these are fictional cats, right? They don't exactly exist. I will not step further into this if you're going to be angry with me for simply having an opinion.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 12, 2017 20:58:44 GMT -5
@aquathepiplup
Sorry. It was a combination of a rough day and irritation at constantly seeing the same exact argument when it comes to certain ships. Regardless of the reason, it was wrong of me and I apologize.
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Ivy x Fern
Sept 12, 2017 21:08:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 21:08:21 GMT -5
@aquathepiplup Sorry. It was a combination of a rough day and irritation at constantly seeing the same exact argument when it comes to certain ships. Regardless of the reason, it was wrong of me and I apologize. And I do understand, since I guess my own reasons were pretty ridiculous. I'm tired of being upset at small things all the time, so I'm just trying to avoid it now. Don't worry about it. You're cool. Let's just kindly agree to disagree. Face it; the Erins aren't really the best writers. I'm trying other books after the humiliation of the Tiger x Dove SE.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 13, 2017 12:33:45 GMT -5
I agree with Poppy as well. Now that everything has finally calmed down, I honestly have seen a lot of bashing toward this pairing as of late, when there really isn't anything to legitimately bash on it about? You can say, okay you prefer another pairing, that's fine, or you prefer Ivy single, also okay. But from what I've seen, Fern x Ivy is an okay and healthy relationship, it isn't abusive, it isn't between an apprentice or a warrior, etc. And they're second cousins, making them less than 1% related by blood, which is as good as you're gonna get in an isolated clan. And I'm pretty sure everyone is sick of forbidden romances at this point, the only way to avoid incest is through a forbidden romance though.
So really, statistically it comes down to the main arguments of people thinking an independent she-cat = no kits/no mate. The thing is, by definition independent, relationship wise, would mean not depending on another for livelihood or subsistence. However you can be happily independent and still be in a relationship, it's just like how people can still be interested in relationships, just not kits, or people can be interested in romance but they don't think about it much, etc. There will always be a solution in these type of situation. If there wasn't a healthy level of independence with both Ivy and Fern while they're in their relationship, they would just end up like Squirrel x Ash. Ashfur was overbearing, he didn't let Squirrelflight retain her independence, but Bramblestar did. This is why she chose him over Ashfur.
Ivy and Fern will still spend time on their own, still go on patrols with other cats, still hunt with other cats, still have an identity outside of being mates, they'll still be able to hunt for themselves, fight for themselves, and still have their own individual opinions. This is what it means to still have your own independence as a character, but also still be able to retain a relationship with another character. This is why people keep saying that as long as Fern and Ivy still retain their characters even after they end up in a relationship, then they'll just fine.
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Ivy x Fern
Sept 13, 2017 13:26:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Leafshine on Sept 13, 2017 13:26:20 GMT -5
There are so many strong she-cats with a mate and kits, see Squirrelflight, Tawnypelt, Ferncloud and Bluestar for example. But ThunderClan is too crowded already, they don't need more kits, especially not from Firestar's kin. The next arc will surely focus on Dovewing's and Ivypool's kits though, it was already implied that Shadowkit is special. Dovewings romance was expanded in detail, while Ivypool's relationahip was mentioned randomly in a few sentences from Alderhearts and Twigpaw's PoV. And now she is expecting kits.
While Dovewing showed interest in Tigerheart when she was still a paw, Ivy never was interested in a tom. Why should she be interested now? That somehow doesn't fit with her character from the fourth arc. Fernsong seems immature, he has no personality at all, but bonus points because he is Firestars kin.
Ivy x Fern were just flirting a bit, and didn't behave like true mate's. Blossom x Thorn was rushed too, they are background characters anyways, so who cares? But a former main character shouldnt get a romance like that imo. And was it even confirmed that Fernsong is her mate? I thought everything that was said outside the books is non canon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 13:34:22 GMT -5
There are so many strong she-cats with a mate and kits, see Squirrelflight, Tawnypelt, Ferncloud and Bluestar for example. But ThunderClan is too crowded already, they don't need more kits, especially not from Firestar's kin. The next arc will surely focus on Dovewing's and Ivypool's kits though, it was already implied that Shadowkit is special. Dovewings romance was expanded in detail, while Ivypool's relationahip was mentioned randomly in a few sentences from Alderhearts and Twigpaw's PoV. And now she is expecting kits. While Dovewing showed interest in Tigerheart when she was still a paw, Ivy never was interested in a tom. Why should she be interested now? That somehow doesn't fit with her character from the fourth arc. Fernsong seems immature, he has no personality at all, but bonus points because he is Firestars kin. Ivy x Fern were just flirting a bit, and didn't behave like true mate's. Blossom x Thorn was rushed too, they are background characters anyways, so who cares? But a former main character shouldnt get a romance like that imo. And was it even confirmed that Fernsong is her mate? I thought everything that was said outside the books is non canon. Kate hinted that Ivypool will be getting a mate, and it's pretty obvious that Ivy x Fern is a thing, considering the scenes we get. I still don't think it's necessary. I don't hate or dislike it, but it feels unfitting for Ivypool's character to me.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 13, 2017 13:47:05 GMT -5
There are so many strong she-cats with a mate and kits, see Squirrelflight, Tawnypelt, Ferncloud and Bluestar for example. But ThunderClan is too crowded already, they don't need more kits, especially not from Firestar's kin. The next arc will surely focus on Dovewing's and Ivypool's kits though, it was already implied that Shadowkit is special. Dovewings romance was expanded in detail, while Ivypool's relationahip was mentioned randomly in a few sentences from Alderhearts and Twigpaw's PoV. And now she is expecting kits. While Dovewing showed interest in Tigerheart when she was still a paw, Ivy never was interested in a tom. Why should she be interested now? That somehow doesn't fit with her character from the fourth arc. Fernsong seems immature, he has no personality at all, but bonus points because he is Firestars kin. Ivy x Fern were just flirting a bit, and didn't behave like true mate's. Blossom x Thorn was rushed too, they are background characters anyways, so who cares? But a former main character shouldnt get a romance like that imo. And was it even confirmed that Fernsong is her mate? I thought everything that was said outside the books is non canon. Ivy x Fern was hinted at by Kate, and it's pretty obvious that they're into each other. Also, some things to keep in mind is that not only is Ivypool a background character, but just because she never showed an interest in wanting a mate in OotS doesn't mean she was never interested in getting one at all. Random? Maybe. But having her get together with an older character would've been even more random than Ivy x Fern, and at least the relationship is being shown in small scenes. Also, I don't really see how Fernsong is immature.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 13, 2017 13:47:05 GMT -5
There are so many strong she-cats with a mate and kits, see Squirrelflight, Tawnypelt, Ferncloud and Bluestar for example. But ThunderClan is too crowded already, they don't need more kits, especially not from Firestar's kin. The next arc will surely focus on Dovewing's and Ivypool's kits though, it was already implied that Shadowkit is special. Dovewings romance was expanded in detail, while Ivypool's relationahip was mentioned randomly in a few sentences from Alderhearts and Twigpaw's PoV. And now she is expecting kits. While Dovewing showed interest in Tigerheart when she was still a paw, Ivy never was interested in a tom. Why should she be interested now? That somehow doesn't fit with her character from the fourth arc. Fernsong seems immature, he has no personality at all, but bonus points because he is Firestars kin. Ivy x Fern were just flirting a bit, and didn't behave like true mate's. Blossom x Thorn was rushed too, they are background characters anyways, so who cares? But a former main character shouldnt get a romance like that imo. And was it even confirmed that Fernsong is her mate? I thought everything that was said outside the books is non canon. I don't see how there's anything wrong with Ivypool not being interested in mates as a kit/apprentice, and while being more concerned about war and protecting her kin. Also yeah, she and Fernsong weren't acting like true mates, because they weren't mates yet. They were just flirting, and there's nothing wrong with that, flirting is usually to test waters, and if it leads to something more, than so be it. Also how is Fernsong immature. From the scenes we do have of him and Ivypool, she likes his company, likes how he talks around her. Fernsong is also shown to be a kind and caring cat, with a nice sense of humor, and looks out for younger cats like apprentices and kits, in a fatherly/friendly like manner. That's more character than most of the new background characters even have nowadays in TC.
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 13, 2017 14:10:51 GMT -5
I also personally think this whole pairing is a big ploy. It feels so unnecessary, but not to the point where the Erins shove it in our faces like with DovexTiger. But still, IvyxFern makes little sense to me, just like how DovexTiger never made sense in the first place (such as: why did they even bother meeting in the first place?).
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 13, 2017 14:40:53 GMT -5
Why should Ivypool getting a mate or not be determined by other cats being in relationships too? Let alone her own sister and her relationship problems.
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Post by Moonblazer on Sept 13, 2017 14:56:45 GMT -5
Fernsong seems far more mature, respectful, genuine and responsible with his clan and duties than Tigerheart or Dovewing, if we're bringing Dovewing's love-life in relation to Ivypool and Fernsong's. I mean, after all, it's so boring and dull when a cat with a respectful, kind and genuine personality gets along with a usually independent, troubled and rough-around-the-edges she-cat, in comparison to another forbidden relationship that led to two cats abandoning their clans, only to return with hardly any retribution, right?
Nah.
I've been waiting a long time for just a good, realistic, subtle and respectful ship like IvyXFern, and I'd like that "boring" ship 500 times better than the mess-ups and confusing and exhausting ships that have been cast at me. I'm lookin at you, DoveXTiger.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 13, 2017 19:59:27 GMT -5
Fernsong seems far more mature, respectful, genuine and responsible with his clan and duties than Tigerheart or Dovewing, if we're bringing Dovewing's love-life in relation to Ivypool and Fernsong's. I mean, after all, it's so boring and dull when a cat with a respectful, kind and genuine personality gets along with a usually independent, troubled and rough-around-the-edges she-cat, in comparison to another forbidden relationship that led to two cats abandoning their clans, only to return with hardly any retribution, right? Nah. I've been waiting a long time for just a good, realistic, subtle and respectful ship like IvyXFern, and I'd like that "boring" ship 500 times better than the mess-ups and confusing and exhausting ships that have been cast at me. I'm lookin at you, DoveXTiger. Hands down agree. I'm also totally fine with Ivypool ending up with a BG character period, which usually never happens with the other MC pairings in the main series. Firestar ended up with Sandstorm, who is one of the original apprentices form the very first series book. Even though Firestar was plain oblivious most of the time to Sand's feelings. And before all that Sand was one of Fire's bullies when he first joined, along side Dust, both of them were over excessively antagonistic toward him. Squirrelfligtht ended up with Bramblestar, and even Leafpool ended up with Crowfeather, one of the journeying cats, even though it was a forbidden relationship. Bramble and Squirrel had some issues too, on and off relationships. Jayfeather is only getting with Half-Moon after he dies, she's still a high leader type status, also she's a dead past spirit. Lionblaze got with Cinderheart, there was a whole drama surrounding the you're too special or I'm not special enough, on and off relationship because Cinderheart was like Cinderpelt's reincarnation but not really, the other option was a forbidden one with Heathertail, didn't work out. And even Hollyleaf has split decisions among the Erins on whether or not she and Fallen Leaves was a thing, he was the main spirit that we saw trapped in the caves too besides Rock. Dovewing had two love interest, being Bumblestripe, and actual okay character, and Tigerheart, but no surprise she ended up with the one in the forbidden romance before abandoning her clan for him as well, in the weirdest way possible. And now in AVoS, we haven't had any technical ones because of the POV's, Twig and Violet are too young, and Alder is a medicine cat. I guess you could say Needle and Rain, that didn't end well. And DoveTiger is a thing too...still. Fernsong is an actual okay character so far, and him and Ivy seem to enjoy one another's company. Fern x Ivy isn't forbidden, it's not ****phila, it's not abusive, nothing of the sort. There's no lies, no arguing, no trying to make one another jealous, none. They're two consenting adult cats that feel affection toward one another. Maybe it's just that readers are so used to more messed up in a sense relationships in this series that they consider it the norm, and see actual healthy okay pairings like Fern x Ivy, as boring. This also reminds me of the arguments between Thrush x Blue and Blue x Oak. People think Thrush is a boring character, when all he's been was nothing but a good friend to Bluestar, just because they prefer the Oak x Blue relationship, mostly because it's forbidden and mutual. Even if Blue x Thrush was one-sided romantically, they still had better chemistry as friends, which is important. If you're lover isn't your friend, what's the point of the relationship tbh? I'm happy to see Fern and Ivy get along so well, it just shows how good they'd be as mates too.
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Post by Owlmoon on Sept 14, 2017 12:34:38 GMT -5
Agreed, if it were up to me, she would be a single pringle forever, but a happy single pringle.
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Post by Lady of the Emblem on Sept 14, 2017 13:11:18 GMT -5
Agreed, if it were up to me, she would be a single pringle forever, but a happy single pringle. Yes, I agree too! Ivypool was perfectly fine by herself. She and Fernsong should stay just friends.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 14, 2017 18:25:05 GMT -5
Fernsong seems far more mature, respectful, genuine and responsible with his clan and duties than Tigerheart or Dovewing, if we're bringing Dovewing's love-life in relation to Ivypool and Fernsong's. I mean, after all, it's so boring and dull when a cat with a respectful, kind and genuine personality gets along with a usually independent, troubled and rough-around-the-edges she-cat, in comparison to another forbidden relationship that led to two cats abandoning their clans, only to return with hardly any retribution, right? Nah. I've been waiting a long time for just a good, realistic, subtle and respectful ship like IvyXFern, and I'd like that "boring" ship 500 times better than the mess-ups and confusing and exhausting ships that have been cast at me. I'm lookin at you, DoveXTiger. YES. YES YES YES. I absolutely love relationships like DustxFern and BrackenxSorrel for this very reason. Simple and sweet. This is how most relationships really should be in this series. Drama here and there is okay, but every single relationship? It gets to be tiresome and just plain annoying. Fernsong is kind, gentle, and patient. Ivypool is fiery, loyal, and energetic. They complete each other. There's no clashing personalities like with TigerxDove, no other love interests like with BramblexSquirrel. Realistically, there should be drama whatsoever with this ship.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 14, 2017 18:36:59 GMT -5
❅Maplefrost❅ About the last part, and this is just a personal opinion, but Thrushpelt would still be a boring character in my eyes even if you don't compare him to Oakheart. A good friend, yes, but still boring, at least to me anyway. I do agree with everything else you (and Moon and Poppy) said, though. Sometimes it's just nice having a drama-free relationship.
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Post by lilyshinemedicinecat on Sept 17, 2017 17:20:20 GMT -5
I completely agree that Ivy x Fern is not needed. Ivypool is a strong and independent cat. She can make her OWN happy ending by becoming leader. She would be a great leader, so she does not need a mate. I feel like she would be a far better leader than Squirrelflight. She does not need a mate to have a "happy ending". ShadowClan needs more kits, not ThunderClan! ThunderClan is overflowing and is literally about the size of all the other Clans COMBINED as of Shattered Sky. I am not saying that having kits means a she-cat can no longer be leader, but I just feel like having a mate does not mesh with Ivypool's character.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Sept 17, 2017 17:24:28 GMT -5
I completely agree that Ivy x Fern is not needed. Ivypool is a strong and independent cat. She can make her OWN happy ending by becoming leader. She would be a great leader, so she does not need a mate. She does not need a mate to have a "happy ending. Being strong and independent doesn't mean she can't have a mate, or be leader if she does get one. She can do both while still having a significant other.
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Post by lilyshinemedicinecat on Sept 17, 2017 17:27:03 GMT -5
I am not saying that having kits means a she-cat can no longer be leader, but I just feel like having a mate does not mesh with Ivypool's character.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 17, 2017 19:56:25 GMT -5
I am not saying that having kits means a she-cat can no longer be leader, but I just feel like having a mate does not mesh with Ivypool's character. But that's the thing, Fernsong does mesh with Ivypool. Quite well, might I add. She is a gifted warrior, loyal to the bone, and fiercely protective of those she cares about. Fernsong is loving, gentle, and nurturing. They sound like two halves of a very complex character. They really do complete each other. And that is what an ideal partner should do. In addition, Fernsong steps back and lets Ivypool take charge of things, as demonstrated in TAS. He lets Ivypool be Ivypool. And THAT is exactly what Ivypool needs in a mate. Not someone trying to protect her from Clan life, but one who lets her handle things that way she always has. That is why they work so well.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Sept 17, 2017 21:38:38 GMT -5
Also, I asked my mother, and she told me that yes, you can be in a marriage and still be independent. For example, handling your own finances, or hanging out with your own associates, and so on. Being in a relationship doesn't take away your independence. In fact, if you are in a relationship that tries to smother that in dependency, for example, Squirrelflight and Ashfur, or Dovewing and Bumblestripe, that relationship isn't healthy and will most likely fall apart. A relationship that too dependent on one another, and obsessively so, is also unhealthy. There has to be a compromise.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 21:48:09 GMT -5
I just wish they weren't having kits. It would be nice to see at least one main couple be happy together without kits.
Not to mention ThunderClan has way too many characters right now. They're quickly approaching 50 cats, which is way too many. The Erins aren't even using 95% of ThunderClan as it is, so I don't understand why they need to keep pumping more and more characters out.
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Post by Mistybreeze on Sept 17, 2017 21:55:12 GMT -5
I just wish they weren't having kits. It would be nice to see at least one main couple be happy together without kits. Not to mention ThunderClan has way too many characters right now. They're quickly approaching 50 cats, which is way too many. The Erins aren't even using 95% of ThunderClan as it is, so I don't understand why they need to keep pumping more and more characters out. I have a feeling that they are planning a massive purge. The Darktail plot will be wrapped up in DN and they will need some other conflict. What ever it is, it's probably going to kill a lot of characters.
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