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Post by Blackstar on Sept 8, 2016 22:13:52 GMT -5
In sales numbers and popularity I mean. Does anyone have information on this?
And possible reasons why it's going downhill if it is?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 22:15:43 GMT -5
Without looking at numbers or anything, I'd say it is. Warriors is an old series, and the earlier series were better. The original people that fell in love with Warriors back when they were 8 or so are now in high school and college.
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Post by mEmE on Sept 8, 2016 22:34:46 GMT -5
The Orignal Saga was really good.
The New Prophecy was not too bad.
Power of Three went a huge downward spiral.
Omen of the Stars was plain garbage.
Dawn of the Clans was excellent.
Vision of Shadows has yet to be determined.
Like the guy above me said. Most people that liked Warriors when it was at its prime are now probably adults, or in college/university. The problem is that the quality went down. You cannot read power of three or omen of the stars without reading the first series, because the characters in the 3rd and 4th arc were so terrible it made it really difficult to care much about them, thus showcasing Warriors as a story that is running out of ideas and is slowing dying out.
Dawn of the Clans was technically a reboot in my opinion. And a great one at that, it is possibly the only standalone series where it can provoke an emotional response without requiring previous knowledge of the warriors plot, after all it was a prequel.
Dawn of the Clans made me love warriors again, and the reintroduction of SkyClan in Vision of Shadows is lifting my interest in the arc, hopefully after the disastrous results of what was supposed to be finale, we can see the Warriors series bring itself up again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 22:49:41 GMT -5
The Orignal Saga was really good. The New Prophecy was not too bad. Power of Three went a huge downward spiral. Omen of the Stars was plain garbage. Dawn of the Clans was excellent. Vision of Shadows has yet to be determined. Like the guy above me said. Most people that liked Warriors when it was at its prime are now probably adults, or in college/university. The problem is that the quality went down. You cannot read power of three or omen of the stars without reading the first series, because the characters in the 3rd and 4th arc were so terrible it made it really difficult to care much about them, thus showcasing Warriors as a story that is running out of ideas and is slowing dying out. Dawn of the Clans was technically a reboot in my opinion. And a great one at that, it is possibly the only standalone series where it can provoke an emotional response without requiring previous knowledge of the warriors plot, after all it was a prequel. Dawn of the Clans made me love warriors again, and the reintroduction of SkyClan in Vision of Shadows is lifting my interest in the arc, hopefully after the disastrous results of what was supposed to be finale, we can see the Warriors series bring itself up again. Exactly what I was going to comment. original series- amazing and imaginative (more "realistic" cat actions i guess?) the new prophecy- not as amazing as the original series, but it's still a good read (has its ups and downs more frequently than the original series too) Power of three- this is where i feel like things got out of hand, especially with super powers coming into play and starclan not acting like starclan anymore. this has more downs than ups imo Omen of the stars- like you said, pure and utter garbage. character decisions and plot points made me wanna throw away all my books. it's also written VERY differently which made it even MORE unenjoyable Dawn of the clans- my most hated series ever, but even i can admit this was written BEAUTIFULLLY!!! the only problem i have with it is that it's MY personal opinon that the characters and actions were stupid, but it doesnt change how it was beautfully and cleverly written.
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Post by 𝕡𝕖𝕡𝕡𝕖𝕣𝕞𝕚𝕟𝕥 on Sept 9, 2016 5:36:54 GMT -5
Probably. This seems to be the general consensus in the fandom about each arc:
The Prophecies Begin - great series, beautifully written.
The New Prophecy - not as good, still decent.
Power of Three - the series starts heading downhill.
Omen of The Stars - the worst, most likely due to the dumb plot twists and character choices.
Dawn of the Clans - depends who you ask; some love it, some hate it. well written with less mistakes, though the romantic arcs were admittedly awful.
A Vision of Shadows - too early to make any judgment, I think it's decent, judging by what we've seen, maybe better than TNP.
PoT and OoTS probably turned a lot of fans off.
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Post by nem on Sept 9, 2016 6:02:10 GMT -5
Yes. Everyone gave up on Omens of the Stars, Power of Three and Bramblestar's Storm.
I tried to reread the Power of Three arc and Omens of the Stars arc, I'm having a hard time getting through Outcast.
I really liked the first arc. I have a hard time liking the New Prophecy, the Power of Three and Omens of the Stars to be honest.
I like Dawn of the Clans, though Path of Stars was completely spoiled for me so I lost interested. Plus, I couldn't get my hands on a copy of it and I wasn't caught up when the whole book was released by accident.
I don't like a Vision of Shadows that much. The names are horrible and I dislike our two main Point of View characters.
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Sept 9, 2016 7:33:11 GMT -5
As someone who has been on the forums for six years I would say the viewership definitely wet down. It may sound arrogant, but by the time Fading Echoes and Night whispers were released, I knew oots would be bad. I was still marginally surprised about how bad it actually was because I didn't expect the writers to **** up Ivypool so royally, but still not surprised. The plot moved like a snail, we weren't learning anything, and the sideplots were hijacking the main plot. Not everyone registered the series' fate so when The Last Hope was released there was huge fan rage. Everyone was mad about something. Then Yellowfang's Secret was released and the fans were even more angry because it effectively ruined a fan favourite character (even though oots got there first). I know a lot of people who stopped reading the series after Yellowfang's secret, including myself. Yellowfang's secret and The Last Hope killed the series. Learning the next series would be about the beginning of the clans made people think the writers were out of ideas.
The fact oots was so bad leaves a bad taste in peoples mouth. Pot doesn't really stand on its own. Though it has a lot of good elements, like good characters, its plot has barely any cohesion. The closest thing we have is the prophecy but its just sort of there. nothing is done with it. We only see side plots whether it be greencough, heathertail, the ancients, cinderheart, windclan aggression, sol, tigerstar, leafxcrow, or Hollyleaf's corruption. The prophecy is the only thing that gives pot any cohesion and nothing plot worthy happens with it. Its just there. You have to read oots to get any fullfillment from pot. However oots gives us two protagonists that are not remotely as interesting as Hollyleaf was, a plot that completely negates the series canon, more starclan than any of us want at this point, under utilized protagonists (lionblaze), and really awful villians.
Is it any surprise the veiwings went down?
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Holly Snow
My full names are Hollyleaf;) and Snowwing™
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Post by Holly Snow on Sept 9, 2016 7:34:40 GMT -5
I tried to reread the Power of Three arc and Omens of the Stars arc, I'm having a hard time getting through Outcast. its ok, everyone has a hard time getting through Outcast. Just relish in the fact Eclipse is better.
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Post by Blackstar on Sept 9, 2016 19:27:51 GMT -5
I just remember back in 2007-2009 that everyone was talking about it. I guess everything was just rushed after that point because I don't remember them coming out as fast as they are now. I would have been fine if they ended the plot with the cats from the forest after the second series and made the whole third series as a standalone one but with the same core idea where the three cats have the same powers and personalities. Also why is Omen of the Stars so bad? I only read the first two books but the end of the second was really good.
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Post by Yoshimi on Sept 9, 2016 19:37:37 GMT -5
I always thought people were discovering the books. Due to the fan animations on youtube.
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Post by mEmE on Sept 9, 2016 20:03:25 GMT -5
I just remember back in 2007-2009 that everyone was talking about it. I guess everything was just rushed after that point because I don't remember them coming out as fast as they are now. I would have been fine if they ended the plot with the cats from the forest after the second series and made the whole third series as a standalone one but with the same core idea where the three cats have the same powers and personalities. Also why is Omen of the Stars so bad? I only read the first two books but the end of the second was really good. Omen of the Stars is bad because it has honestly a very purposely dragged out plot, and the subplots itself were garbage. The character developments were also garbage, in the first arcs. I cared a lot about Firestar and all of his friends, as well all the clanmates. I also cared a lot about Gray Wing and his accompanies. Also the group that went on the journey in the New Prophecy. It actually mattered to me if those characters died. I remember tearing up a little reading Gray Wings death in Path of Stars. However, all the supposed character development in Power of Three started going downhill. I really didn't like any of the three, I also found it really hard to care about background characters. In the first series, we all knew who the background characters were. Mousefur, Runningwind, Brindleface, Willowpelt, we knew all of them and probably even knew a bit of their personalities. In Power of three and going, I found it REALLY difficult to care even a single bit about any of the background characters, mainly because there are too many and too many irrelevant to the plot. Omen of the stars was honestly the first time when I actually wanted the main character died a slow painful death. Dovewing was so god damn annoying I really wanted to run into the book and rip out her intestines. The books made really hate the characters a lot, and the Last Hope was so poorly written, I wanted to chuck my copy out the window. The logic of the arc was also really flawed. Really? Like dead spirit cats fighting living cats? Who in the hell would be inbred enough to think of such a stupid idea. And the fact that dead cats can die a second time really ticked me the f*ck off. Spottedleaf's death was also completely unnecessary and also had a lame reason for it to happen. Also at that point I also wanted the stupid ex-medicine cat to die, what a god damn disgrace of a character. All in all, if you liked it, good for you, but I will never be able to enjoy the arc as much as the 1st 2nd or the prequel arc
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Sept 9, 2016 20:10:35 GMT -5
The logic of the arc was also really flawed. Really? Like dead spirit cats fighting living cats? Who in the hell would be inbred enough to think of such a stupid idea. And the fact that dead cats can die a second time really ticked me the f*ck off. Spottedleaf's death was also completely unnecessary and also had a lame reason for it to happen. Also at that point I also wanted the stupid ex-medicine cat to die, what a god damn disgrace of a character. Yeah that bugged be as well.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2016 20:22:34 GMT -5
I just remember back in 2007-2009 that everyone was talking about it. I guess everything was just rushed after that point because I don't remember them coming out as fast as they are now. I would have been fine if they ended the plot with the cats from the forest after the second series and made the whole third series as a standalone one but with the same core idea where the three cats have the same powers and personalities. Also why is Omen of the Stars so bad? I only read the first two books but the end of the second was really good. The reason OOTS is so hated goes all the way back to The New Prophecy. In this arc, it's established that the Dark Forest has started training cats. This continues into POT, and that's where things go south. Instead of finishing up the Dark Forest arc in POT, the Erins drag it out for tweleve books total (more, if you count TNP). And much like POT, the Erins waste the storyline on pointless garbage that contributes nothing to the overall plot. It's just filler. The very first book in the series, The Fourth Apprentice, is a good example of this. The only thing this book adds to the plot is the introduction of Dovewing's powers and giving a reason for Ivypool to join the Dark Forest. The rest of the book is complete filler that does nothing for the overall plot, and is soon forgotten by the characters. This goes on for every book almost. Instead of focusing on the really important things that should matter, the Erins shove it to the side and give it rushed screen time, while focusing most of the series on the filler stuff that doesn't matter. Dovewing's love life, Briarlight, the drought, Flametail, the Tribe, Cinderpelt/Cinderheart, etc are all things that could have been cut out and would have affected little to nothing. Also, the characters are boring. As much as I like Dovewing, she's not interesting enough to carry the plot. so instead all of her screen time is devoted to filler. Ivypool is a disaster, and her drama with Dovewing is nothing new. It just took up screen time, and all her Dark Forest scenes went no where. It just showed some cats fighting, and that's really it. Lionblaze was annoying, because all he focused on was Cinderheart. Jayfeather was probably the only character who did something important, but that's not really saying much considering he too was involved in a lot of filler. And then the end was so rushed. We spent tweleve+ books leading up to a very anticlimactic battle. It lasted only a couple of chapters, and the deaths were rushed. Brokenstar was killed in literally one second, by Yellowfang jumping on him and just snapping his neck like a mouse. All the other villains died the same way, as did the heros. And Firestar's death was so confusing some fans still don't understand how he died.
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Post by Dancing_Totodile on Sept 9, 2016 20:27:57 GMT -5
I just remember back in 2007-2009 that everyone was talking about it. I guess everything was just rushed after that point because I don't remember them coming out as fast as they are now. I would have been fine if they ended the plot with the cats from the forest after the second series and made the whole third series as a standalone one but with the same core idea where the three cats have the same powers and personalities. Also why is Omen of the Stars so bad? I only read the first two books but the end of the second was really good. The reason OOTS is so hated goes all the way back to The New Prophecy. In this arc, it's established that the Dark Forest has started training cats. This continues into POT, and that's where things go south. Instead of finishing up the Dark Forest arc in POT, the Erins drag it out for tweleve books total (more, if you count TNP). And much like POT, the Erins waste the storyline on pointless garbage that contributes nothing to the overall plot. It's just filler. The very first book in the series, The Fourth Apprentice, is a good example of this. The only thing this book adds to the plot is the introduction of Dovewing's powers and giving a reason for Ivypool to join the Dark Forest. The rest of the book is complete filler that does nothing for the overall plot, and is soon forgotten by the characters. This goes on for every book almost. Instead of focusing on the really important things that should matter, the Erins shove it to the side and give it rushed screen time, while focusing most of the series on the filler stuff that doesn't matter. Dovewing's love life, Briarlight, the drought, Flametail, the Tribe, Cinderpelt/Cinderheart, etc are all things that could have been cut out and would have affected little to nothing. Also, the characters are boring. As much as I like Dovewing, she's not interesting enough to carry the plot. so instead all of her screen time is devoted to filler. Ivypool is a disaster, and her drama with Dovewing is nothing new. It just took up screen time, and all her Dark Forest scenes went no where. It just showed some cats fighting, and that's really it. Lionblaze was annoying, because all he focused on was Cinderheart. Jayfeather was probably the only character who did something important, but that's not really saying much considering he too was involved in a lot of filler. And then the end was so rushed. We spent tweleve+ books leading up to a very anticlimactic battle. It lasted only a couple of chapters, and the deaths were rushed. Brokenstar was killed in literally one second, by Yellowfang jumping on him and just snapping his neck like a mouse. All the other villains died the same way, as did the heros. And Firestar's death was so confusing some fans still don't understand how he died. Yep.
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