Tigerheart *spoilers for TaS*

Tigerheart trained Sleekwhisker and also temporarily mentored Lionpaw.

I'm neutral on Tigerheart as deputy. He was pretty immature in OotS and is clearly still in love with Dovewing, but we don't see him too often either, especially after OotS, so he could've been maturing in the background for all we know.

I personally think he'd be an Ok deputy. Warriors don't have to have perfect love-lives to know how to keep a clan in control and order cats around. Reedfeather, Raggedstar, Bluestar, and plenty of other deputies have shown that it's possible to meet the needs of the clan- even if their personal lives are in chaos.

Now, leader? Well... compared to most of ShadowClan, he's better than Sunstar, but I don't think he has what it takes... yet, to become leader. Maybe this whole situation of seeing his clan fall to pieces will make him focus a little less on Dovewing and a little more on his own clanmates.

He's still immature even now, considering him and Dovewing arguing in TAS.

But the reason why was obvious??

Tigerheart wanted to stay in a relationship with her, but Dovewing didn't feel the same by the end of the arc. She eventually realized that yes she did still love him and couldn't move on, but just because she loved him doesn't mean they can just get back together. They're both loyal to their clans, and they're both from different ones at that. Then again, Tiger is probably not that loyal considering he still wanted to get back together with her.

And how does she not give him a chance in DW's when she's not even at the gathering period? It was Ivypool that defended her, and she was right, what Dovewing did was none of Tigerheart's business now that they weren't together anymore. And the scene with Shrewfoot doesn't count, it's inconsistent since Shrewfoot was supposed to be dead.

She didn't pretend not to notice him, she just didn't want to face him, how would you feel if your ex kept blatantly staring at you. He stared so much that Bramblestar even noticed, and thought something was up. And how did the fight with the badgers not mean anything? She literally broke up with Bumblestripe following that, because she probably realized that yeah she's not gonna be able to fall out of love with Tigerheart.

From what I gathered Dovewing was trying to speak about something important involving the crisis at hand to Tigerheart, but because of their past relationship, Tigerheart was being bratty toward her. Correct me if I'm wrong about this. But Tigerheart needs to get over himself, that scene pretty much proves he hasn't matured at all, despite it being moons since their breakup.

Last time I checked, she made it clear that things were over. So it's no longer his business who she decides to be with after they've broken up. It's Tigerheart's fault anyways, that they broke up, because Dovewing couldn't trust him, he betrayed her trust in the first place. How can he expect to be in a relationship with her if there's no mutual trust in the first place.

She didn't want to be friends, so what? She doesn't owe him anything, because again, how can she be friends with him when she can't trust him? Besides, you're supposed to put your clan over out clan friendships anyways. And what aboue Sedgewhisker? Dovewing and her were friends on the jouney but after it was over she was hostile towards her. Also I doubt they would have stayed as just friends, Tiger and Dove, Tiger would just try to convince her to go out with him again, like he has tried before.

It did come to a resolution, they broke up. That was that, and Dovewing made it 100% clear to Tigerheart, there's nothing else between them. Just because he didn't agree with it doesn't mean it isn't a resolution, relationships need to be MUTUAL, and have to be in AGREEMENT, and if it's one-sided it will not work out. Yes Dovewing loves Tigerheart, but she can't trust him because used her for information, and held her sister hostage, not to mention kept it a secret that he's a Dark Forest Trainee. And so what if the prophecy is over? That doesn't mean she can suddenly jump into his arms, again, DIFFERENT CLANS.

The scene with Shrewfoot does not count because Shrewfoot was supposed to be DEAD. It is inconsistent with the plotline, and can not be seen as viable, that's like saying, oh Firestar was in DW's so what he says goes, no it doesn't, cause he's dead. Just because they were in a past relationship doesn't mean Dovewing is obligated to be his friend, be with him in general, let alone address their relationship status. When Dovewing came to Tigerheart, this is MOONS AFTER what took place in DW's and BrS, let alone when they broke up even before that. Tigerheart has shown no real maturity because of how he behaved in such a bratty way when Dovewing was trying to address the CRISES AT HAND, not their past relationship. There's a time and a place for that, and Tigerheart, again, was just being a brat.

“I don’t know.” Dovewing’s paws pricked.
“We can have one more night together, can’t we?” Tigerheart pleaded.
“No, we can’t.” Pain stabbed at Dovewing’s chest. “I have to concentrate on the prophecy! There’s a battle coming.” A lump rose in her throat. “I don’t know who to trust anymore!”
Tigerheart shot to her side, pressing close. “You can always trust me.” The warm scent of him made her shake. “I love you!” he breathed.
Dovewing wrenched herself away. “This isn’t the time.” She shook her head. “I have a battle to fight.” She met his gaze. “So do you.”
“What about afterward?” he murmured.
“There will be four Clans again.” Dovewing shut her eyes tight. “You’ll belong to ShadowClan and I’ll belong to ThunderClan, and … and maybe that’s how it should be.”
Tigerheart stabbed the earth with his claws. “You can give me up so easily?”
Dovewing shook her head. “There’s nothing easy about this,” she hissed. “How can you be more worried about us, with everything that’s going on? You know what’s happening better than most cats!” It was as if she was looking at him for the first time: a ShadowClan cat, and a Dark Forest warrior. A cat who thought her powers were cool, but had no idea how important the prophecy was. What am I doing?

Tigerheart understood loud and clear that Dovewing was ending things, even you as the reader understood she just broke up with him. Just because they broke up didn't mean he liked that, either way it still happened. There is no AFTERWARD, there is nothing. At the time she couldn't trust him, he used her before, and then she found out he was training with the Dark Forest cats. She made her decision that their relationship WOULD NOT work out, and it's true. If anyone wasn't taking it seriously, it was Tigerheart.



Yes Dovewing was naieve to tell him about the herbs, but she was an apprentice at the time, she was young, and did stupid things. It doesn't change that Tigerheart betrayed her trust and took her sister hostage. Also Tigerheart is no better, he was telling Dovewing information as well, it's just that Dovewing didn't take advantage of him because of it.

“There’s no time tonight.” Tigerheart sighed. “Blackstar’s sending out extra patrols at moonhigh and dawn.”
Dovepaw tipped her head. “Why?”
“We’re hunting for herbs as well as prey.”
“Is Littlecloud worse?”
“Yes.” His belly growled. “And the Clan’s getting hungry.”
Dovepaw pressed her cheek against Tigerheart’s. ThunderClan was lucky that whitecough hadn’t turned to greencough. “I wish I could help.” She pictured Jayfeather’s fat clumps of juicy herbs growing by the Twoleg nest, protected from the ice by heaps of bracken. “But Jayfeather’s made sure no one can take leaves from his herb patch.”
Tigerheart pricked his ears. “Herb patch?”
“The plants he’s been nursing since greenleaf.”
“He’s been growing herbs?” Dovepaw drew away, surprised. “I thought you knew.” She frowned. “Isn’t that why ShadowClan wanted our territory?”
Tigerheart stared at her. “We never wanted ThunderClan territory.”
“But Ivy—” Dovepaw stopped herself. There was no need for Tigerheart to hear about Ivypaw’s dream. “I thought that’s why we had the battle.”
“It was Firestar who wanted territory,” Tigerheart meowed. “He asked for the clearing back.”
Dovepaw shifted her paws. Only because Ivypaw persuaded him to. She shook out her pelt. She didn’t want to argue with Tigerheart. The battle was over.
“Never mind.”
“But Jayfeather has herbs.” Tigerheart leaned closer. “Which herbs?”
“Just some tansy.” The words felt sticky on her tongue. She couldn’t lie to Tigerheart, but it felt disloyal to tell him about Jayfeather’s precious supply. “A bit of catmint.”

There was a misunderstanding, because Tigerstar tricked Ivypaw, to tell Firestar about ShadowClan, and the herbs got brought up. Also you can clearly see where Tigerheart is goading information out of her even though she says Never Mind.



But trust WAS THE ISSUE. It was the first time, and it is again the second time.


Dovepaw scowled at him. “You told Blackstar about Jayfeather’s herbs!” He gazed steadily back at her without saying anything. “How could you?” Dovepaw wailed. “If Sandstorm dies, it’ll be your fault!”
“But Littlecloud’s sick.”
“So is Sandstorm!”
“Not with greencough.” Dovepaw’s rage grew. Tigerheart sounded so reasonable. Didn’t he understand what he’d done? Tigerheart stroked her flank with his tail, and she flinched.
He frowned. “If Jayfeather were a true medicine cat, he would have given us the herbs.”
“He has to put his own Clanmates first!”
Tigerheart tipped his head to one side. “So do I.”
Dovepaw felt sick. She wanted this conversation to stop now, but she had to know.
“Even above me?”
Tigerheart’s tail quivered. “I didn’t mean it like that.” His amber eyes grew round. “I just—”
Dovepaw cut him off, her mew barely a whisper. “I think you did.” She turned and padded away. “I think that’s exactly what you meant.”

The second time was a realization if anything. There was a war on the horizon, she had a prohecy to fulfill, and Tigerheart was not only from a different clan, but also a Dark Forest Trainee. It was hard for her to trust him, even after the herb incident.



She had obvious trust issues with him prior to this.



And that was then, this is now. That friendship obviously didn't lead to anything good, hence the two break ups and annoying tension. Forbidden relationships don't work out unless one cat moves to another cat's clan.



But again, the Warrior Code still says that your own clan duties have to be put first. A harmless friendship between Tiger and Dove would have been fine. But it got to the point of romance, sneaking out to meet one another, and lying to their clanmates. That isn't harmless.


But we're talking about relationships. If you no longer wanted anything to do with your EX after breaking up with them, that's your decision. Once a romantic relationship is no longer mutual, things are done and over with. Tigerheart blatantly staring her down was just low key creepy, and suspicious to Bramblestar. Dovewing was in a stressful situation, and had to put her clan first. She made that clear to Tigerstar after their final break up, and that there wouldn't be an afterward between them. He understood they broke up, but he didn't want to give up on her. I don't even like Dovewing that much, but I find her decision to be understandable.

Basically what your saying is because one cat that is incositently mention to be alive in the chapter when a gathering takes place means the gathering didn't happen at all. I highly doubt that that is the case, the gathering still happened Shrewfoot just wasn't there which means Dovewing say Tigerheart at a gathering talking to a cat and still didn't talk to him.

Yes the seen is inconsistent, considering Shrewfoot, was again, supposed to be DEAD. But also so what if she's jealous? We all know she still liked Tigerheart at the time? What's your point? She simply ignored it and moved on afterward, not letting it consume her thoughts. And she was actually GLAD that ShadowClan had forgiven him and that he had a better life with them now. You also need to take into consideration that this took place literally right after the final battle, in the plotline. Bumblestripe and her don't become official mates until BrS, she just chose him by the end of the Last Hope.



She already made it said they needed to put their clans first, even if she wasn't specific, Tiger did get the memo, and didn't like it is all. Just because he didn't like it, doesn't mean he didn't understand what she meant bye it. Also she isn't obligated to be his friend, have you considered that she didn't want anything else more to do with her former love interest from another clan, because she might possibly give in and things could get worse from there?



Tigerheart being immature and putting their relationship first when he wants to, on his own time, over any current crisis, isn't new. Just shows how bratty he was and still is.



How was Dovewing stringing Bumblestripe along? You're not using the term properly. Dovewing went into a relationship with Bumblestripe, because she wanted to move on, there was an instance when she saw that they could be mates, and have a future together. A proper real one, unlike with Tigerheart, that wasn't in secret, or her betraying her clan. She gave the relationship a try, but you can't help who you love. Stringing him along would have been her KNOWING she couldn't get over Tigerheart, but STAYING with him anyways, without ANY INTENTION of getting over Tigerheart IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'm kinda sick of people claiming she strung him along, it's like Squirrel and Ash all over again. Dovewing's feelings for Tigerheart weren't unresolved, you're also not using that word correctly either, it would be unresolved if she was uncertain about her feelings in the first place. But she wasn't. She was aware she had feelings for Tigerheart, and wanted to move on from them, but when she realized she couldn't she decided it was best to break things off with Bumblestripe. She tried to love Bumblestripe, she tried to make their relationship work, but it didn't. No, getting back with Tigerheart WILL NOT RESOLVE ANYTHING. Dovewing loves him, he loves her, but she knows they can't be together, and Tigerheart won't accept that because he's an immature brat, more immature than Dovewing.

This is why I say Dovewing is better on her own, single. Like dumb toms just need to lay off from her.

But what else is there to talk about? What exactly? If she blurted out that she still loved him too, how is that going to help? What I don't want, and I really mean it, is for them to suddenly jump back into a relationship. Imo, the only way it will work out is if one decides to move to the other's clan. But since both are putting their clans first, it's not going to work out.

She didn't want to be with him before, but then took him into consideration. So no that's not stringing him along. How is her seeing them possibly having a future together, stringing him along?? Her feelings can change, she gave Bumblestripe and her relationship a chance, because she felt that they could work out. But in the end she was wrong, and decided to end things.

Squirrelflight WASN'T sure about how she felt about Ashfur UNTIL she was sure about how she felt about Brambleclaw.

The thing is, how exactly would you think this whole thing be resolved?? Like there's no real possibility, like I said, the only way is if Dove leaves Thunder, or Tiger leaves Shadow. Or both no longer love one another, period.

You keep blaming her for everything that went wrong in the relationship, which imo is just unfair. Tigerheart needs to learn how to separate his problems with his clan, and his personal relationships. He didn't have to act friendly, he just needed to listen to vital information for the sake of his clan and her own. So yeah, he's a jerk and a brat.

When did I say Dovewing was perfect though? I hate her as a character and blame her just as much as I blame Tigerheart. But she doesn't owe him or Bumblestripe anything, she isn't obligated to return their feelings or jump into a relationship with them. Just like how Squirrelflight wasn't obligated to offer Ashfur any type of friendship, let alone return his feelings.

Tigerheart was the one that blurted out he loved her, he's always trying to pursuade her to do things, and get informatin out of her on some instances. No one is saying Dove is perfect, it's just that Tiger wasn't innocent either. You can't excuse him for everything he's also done during their relationship as well. Just because he was a warrior does't mean he was mature, or good willed, let alone trustworthy.

BUT SHE DID TELL HIM THEY COULDN'T BE TOGETHER. He just wasn't happy about this decision. She told him there's no afterward, they're from different clans, it won't work out, but he just didn't like that. The only way this would be resolved is if he accepted that she no longer wanted to be in a relationship with him and move on. Just like how Dovewing tried to move on, but she's not read to yet. And he did tell her how he felt, he told her he loved her in a feat to make her stay with him.

And no one is telling you to like or dislike her, I'm sick of people thinking that she-cats owe toms anything. And if that's not your intention, sorry, but you're definitely giving off that vibe through what you're replying. And no, toms don't owe she-cats anything either, but Tigerheart needs to stop making everything about HIMSELF and think more about his CLAN for once. The world doesn't revolve around his fail romantic relationship with Dovewing, the same goes for Dove even, she just realized this sooner than him is all.

I think Tigerheart should just take initiative and drink bleach already. He is clearly serving no positive purposes to the plot at all. His creeping on Dovewing feels just like a desperate attempt to act as plot filler, trying to continue the terrible drama that we all had to suffer in Omen of the Stars. Besides I really don't want him to be the next leader, nobody needs a second Tigerstar.

I don't understand the point you are even trying to make.


All of my post have been about why I feel Tigerheart has no obligation to be nice to Dovewing. Why his resentment is understandable. People have said he's a jerk for growling at her. Why is he obligated to be nice to her? As I've mentioned Dovewing never offered friendship and they've barely spoken over the last several moons. So why is he supposed to be nice to her? Why was she even surprised that he growled at her to begin with? 

I never said they needed to be together. I never said Tigerheart never did  anything wrong. I did say the likely reason neither could move on properly was because they ended their relationship poorly and because they never had a proper talk is likely why he still has that resentment.

I never said she-cats owed toms anything, What reason does Tigerheart have to be nice to Dovewing? He was civil that's all that was need. He didn't need to agree with everything she said and he certainly didn't have to be nice to her. Especially since they're from different Clans and ShadowClan has always shown hostility to ThunderClan.

And I can read just fine the Capslock isn't needed.

Like I've said repeatedly I have my opinion it isn't changing and you putting everything in bold caps doesn't come across as emphasizing it comes across as Yelling. Or like I'm to stupid to understand what is being written. I understand just fine what is being said I just don't agree with it which is why I said I'm tired of going in circles and to agree to disagree because nothing you say is making me change my mind. You have your opinion I have mine.

An honestly the fact you keep trying to shove your opinion down my throat instead of agree to disagree comes off as you beig arrogant and needing to always be right.

If that in't what your trying to do then sorry but that's what it's coming off as.

I mentioned it the first time on the post with all the yellow writing. Then again on the post below it.

And I kept responding because you kept tagging me or quoting me in your posts and none of those were to say Fine we'll agree to disagree just to continue arguing about a point that neither party planed to budge on.

But you know what I'm done posting on this thread. It's not worth continuing posting because clearly this is just an argument waiting to happen.  


I'm out