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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 14, 2024 5:22:59 GMT -5
I thought it would be fun to make a small compilation but I know I'm forgetting a lot, I'd appreciate your contribution!
The ones I think of off the top of my head:
- Kate thought that Graystripe and Crowfeather would choose their first loves, Silverstream and Feathertail, over Millie and Leafpool in StarClan. => This turned out to be doubly false in "A Light in the Mist". Graystripe devotes time to his two mates, but seems to favor Millie in absolute terms (especially in the last chapter). As for Crowfeather, he doesn't say a word to Feathertail, who also ignores him (it's almost an inconsistency for me, I don't see these two ignoring each other like that at all but that's not the subject); on the other hand, the WindClan warrior shows himself very close to Leafpool as soon as he finds her.
- In a script called "After Sunset, We Need to Talk", it is said that Crowfeather and Nightcloud had several kits. Kate and Vicky both refuted the information, saying that the couple had only one kit. => However, in "Crowfeather's Trial", Nightcloud was indeed expecting three kits: two died during the birth, Breezepelt is the only survivor.
- Vicky confirmed that Deadfoot died during the battle against BloodClan. => We do however see Deadfoot in "The Heart of a Warrior". Additionally, Crowfeather recalls in "Crowfeather's Trial" that his father was always busy as a deputy when he was a kit. If Deadfoot had truly disappeared in "The Darkest Hour", Crowfeather would never have known him.
- Kate claimed that Sol's origins and background would never be revealed, that the mystery would remain about what he experienced before joining the Clans and after leaving them; according to her, it would have spoiled an "essential part of his nature". => However, we discovered the story of his origins and a large part of his past in "SkyClan and the Stranger".
- According to Vicky, Cinderpelt was "much older" than Littlecloud, which would explain why he didn't fall in love with her (I don't see why it would be a problem given all the couples we've seen throughout the saga, but whatever). => Except that Littlecloud is not younger than Cinderpelt: he is at least the same age as her! This is something that can be noticed in the allegiances of "Into the Wild", as well as in the book "Fire and Ice".
- Vicky was convinced that we wouldn't see Ashfur again after Arc 4, that he would stay quietly at StarClan without making a fuss since deep down, he wasn't a "bad cat". => Ashfur became the main antagonist of Arc 7.
- Kate thought that it was unlikely that Mapleshade would reappear in the saga after Arc 4, since a new editorial team was starting to work on WC. => However, we find Mapleshade in Arc 7 from the fifth book.
Do you know of any others?
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Post by 𓆩♡𓆪Moonshine𓆩♡𓆪 on Oct 14, 2024 7:14:49 GMT -5
I remember one of the authors saying that the leader after Firestar would be someone unexpected, implying that it wasn't going to be Bramblestar.
I know they were aiming for Bramblestar to leave the clan out of fear of being like his father and for Squirrelflight to take leadership, but that never panned out and Bramblestar ended up being leader anyway.
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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 14, 2024 7:41:44 GMT -5
I remember one of the authors saying that the leader after Firestar would be someone unexpected, implying that it wasn't going to be Bramblestar. I know they were aiming for Bramblestar to leave the clan out of fear of being like his father and for Squirrelflight to take leadership, but that never panned out and Bramblestar ended up being leader anyway. Oh yeah, I remember that! The editor was right to dissuade Vicky. I'm not a fan of Bramblestar, but he had already proven his loyalty to ThunderClan countless times when he became leader. It would have been interesting if he gave up his ambition and the deputy position in Arc 2, but having him leave after Arc 4 made no sense. And making Squirrelflight the leader is really not a surprise, I think everyone would have seen it coming
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Post by wygolvillage on Oct 14, 2024 8:10:33 GMT -5
The "Moon name" thing.
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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 14, 2024 8:19:51 GMT -5
What is this? When they said "Moon" was a special word and it shouldn't be used in any warrior's name?
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Post by wygolvillage on Oct 14, 2024 8:45:17 GMT -5
What is this? When they said "Moon" was a special word and it shouldn't be used in any warrior's name? Yeah.
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on Oct 14, 2024 9:57:48 GMT -5
I remember one of the authors saying that the leader after Firestar would be someone unexpected, implying that it wasn't going to be Bramblestar. I know they were aiming for Bramblestar to leave the clan out of fear of being like his father and for Squirrelflight to take leadership, but that never panned out and Bramblestar ended up being leader anyway. I was disappointed that he became leader. Only for poor Bramble to be so traumatized that he has to step down and Squirrel takes the leadership
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Post by wygolvillage on Oct 14, 2024 10:09:16 GMT -5
I like the idea of Bramble leaving a LOT. Like a lot, a lot. And maybe he could reappear later as a mysterious and traumatized wanderer and a sort of legendary figure. His arc could conclude with him battling by the side of the Clans one last time and dying in battle, his last sentiments being that the Clans really were his family in the end.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Oct 14, 2024 11:00:11 GMT -5
I like the idea of Bramble leaving a LOT. Like a lot, a lot. And maybe he could reappear later as a mysterious and traumatized wanderer and a sort of legendary figure. His arc could conclude with him battling by the side of the Clans one last time and dying in battle, his last sentiments being that the Clans really were his family in the end. I like the idea of Brambleclaw dying in battle because he’s constantly trying to move past his family’s legacy. And what by the way to do that than to die a legendary hero and be immortalized for it? I could possibly see the trauma getting to be too much to him and stepping down if it was really bad, but unfortunately there’s not a lot of buildup to that. I think the way I just described would be the only way to make someone other than him leader realistically, but it would probably leave a bad taste in people’s mouths. That would be a lot of development for a character only to take it away at the last second and without warning. I also kind of wanted Hollyleaf to become leader. It would’ve made sense with her realizing that the ambition to climb up to the top did not mean feverishly following the code. She would’ve been a bit similar to Firestar as well, seeing as he broke the code several times when he realized that it would otherwise put someone else in danger. And the scene where she and Ashfur forgive each other would’ve come much earlier. I almost wish there would’ve been a healthy relationship between those two where Ashfur got over her foster mother and they became mates instead (it might have happened if Hollyleaf Found out before the fire scene and her mental breakdown, confronting him about it). It might’ve been a bit odd, but there’s age gaps before. Honestly, Hollyleaf was done well for what she was, but I feel like literally getting away with murder her made her a massive contradiction. It’s hinted that if it was the only thing she did she probably wouldn’t have made it to StarClan anyway. More on the topic, one that always bothered me was that originally it was stated Tigerclaw’s mentor was in StarClan and would’ve loved to give him a life. Not only did this not happen, but it was confirmed that mentor was always in the Dark Forest. The whole thing about Bluestar exposing his crimes and chasing him out was a joke too. It always really frustrated me because I thought that would be an interesting dynamic of a mentor that was noble and honorable versus an apprentice that was anything but or twisted what that meant and how someone might feel, even if they were gone by the time that apprentice was older. Bonus points if he gave someone like Squirrelstar and Bramblestar a life and expressed guilt over what happened, or even the idea of you can’t control everything or letting others make their own choices no matter what those might be (with proper advice, of course). But alas, that never occurred and it really feels like wasted potential.
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Post by tumblepaw on Oct 14, 2024 12:32:04 GMT -5
I remember the authors kept making so many claims about who the dads were of the TPB kits and apprentices, minus Goldenflower’s and Willowpelt’s litters… or third litter in Willowpelt’s case and second in Goldenflower’s. At one point Kate claimed Whitestorm was Cinderpelt’s dad!
We didn’t get more concrete answers until years after the first arc was written. Some of the solutions aren’t great though.
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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 15, 2024 2:32:48 GMT -5
I remember the authors kept making so many claims about who the dads were of the TPB kits and apprentices, minus Goldenflower’s and Willowpelt’s litters… or third litter in Willowpelt’s case and second in Goldenflower’s. At one point Kate claimed Whitestorm was Cinderpelt’s dad! We didn’t get more concrete answers until years after the first arc was written. Some of the solutions aren’t great though. Completely agree. Making Whitestorm the father of Brindleface's kits IN ADDITION to Willowpelt's kits was a truly terrible idea for 4 reasons: 1) More inbreeding 2) They made Brindleface Whitestorm's adopted sister 3) Whitestorm wasn't any closer to Ashpaw and Fernpaw than that, honestly. He was a considerate and nice guy to everyone. 4) Who sees Whitestorm chaining mates, even to strengthen ThunderClan? Not me. I just don't understand this choice. The only option that was worse than him was Lionheart, because he already had 4 kits with Frostfur. Making Swiftpaw the son of Goldenflower wasn't the best idea either. It confused a lot of people, who thought he was also a son of Tigerclaw. Same, who had the disastrous idea of making Brindleface and Frostfur sisters? Then making Dustpelt their brother? Making Spottedleaf, explicitly designated as a young medicine cat, the litter sister of Redtail, explicitly described as a veteran? The authors could have been so much more organized, rigorous and creative. Since Bluestar says in the first book that ThunderClan lacks warriors, why not have created many more cats for the prequels and the family tree to avoid inbreeding? Why not have welcomed / housed more rogues and loners, knowing that in "Yellowfang's Secret" (Russetfur, Boulder) and "Tallstar's Revenge" (literally a summer ClubMed for rogues) it was not particularly a problem? It's such a shame, so much wasted potential.
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Post by Flamefrost on Oct 15, 2024 5:08:26 GMT -5
I remember the authors kept making so many claims about who the dads were of the TPB kits and apprentices, minus Goldenflower’s and Willowpelt’s litters… or third litter in Willowpelt’s case and second in Goldenflower’s. At one point Kate claimed Whitestorm was Cinderpelt’s dad! We didn’t get more concrete answers until years after the first arc was written. Some of the solutions aren’t great though. Honestly I try to head canon that Whitestorm was the ADOPTIVE father of Brindleface’s kits, and that she had kits with an unknown tom outside the Clans. Kind of like a Thrushpelt situation. In general I’d like to think the majority of the kits/apprentices in the first arc were secretly fathered outside the Clan, and that it was a bit of a “don’t ask don’t tell”. Maybe it happened due to the famine in Sunstars era that led some cats to secretly eat Twoleg food/scraps and maybe “befriend” some rogues along the way.
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Aroace
🎃ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ👻
does the candy hunting remind anyone else of cookie clicker? no… just me? okay.
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Post by 🎃ᦓρ꠸ᥴꫀᠻꪖꪀᧁ👻 on Oct 15, 2024 20:59:24 GMT -5
I remember the authors kept making so many claims about who the dads were of the TPB kits and apprentices, minus Goldenflower’s and Willowpelt’s litters… or third litter in Willowpelt’s case and second in Goldenflower’s. At one point Kate claimed Whitestorm was Cinderpelt’s dad! We didn’t get more concrete answers until years after the first arc was written. Some of the solutions aren’t great though. Honestly I try to head canon that Whitestorm was the ADOPTIVE father of Brindleface’s kits, and that she had kits with an unknown tom outside the Clans. Kind of like a Thrushpelt situation. In general I’d like to think the majority of the kits/apprentices in the first arc were secretly fathered outside the Clan, and that it was a bit of a “don’t ask don’t tell”. Maybe it happened due to the famine in Sunstars era that led some cats to secretly eat Twoleg food/scraps and maybe “befriend” some rogues along the way. I always liked the idea that Darkstripe was the father of the kits and basically abandoned them and their mother.
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maggotpaw
named my son maggotkit because i hate him
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Post by maggotpaw on Oct 15, 2024 22:13:33 GMT -5
Honestly I try to head canon that Whitestorm was the ADOPTIVE father of Brindleface’s kits, and that she had kits with an unknown tom outside the Clans. Kind of like a Thrushpelt situation. In general I’d like to think the majority of the kits/apprentices in the first arc were secretly fathered outside the Clan, and that it was a bit of a “don’t ask don’t tell”. Maybe it happened due to the famine in Sunstars era that led some cats to secretly eat Twoleg food/scraps and maybe “befriend” some rogues along the way. I always liked the idea that Darkstripe was the father of the kits and basically abandoned them and their mother. I know a lot of the fandom loves this headcanon, but I still prefer Whitestorm being the biological father of Ashfur and Ferncloud. Lots of people love WhiteWillow and dislike the idea of Whitestorm taking two mates in such short succession, but I'd sooner remove the like one? WhiteWillow moment in TPB and give the Sorreltail/Rainwhisker/Sootfur litter a different father. I just really like the idea of Ashfur having biological relation to Goosefeather, Bluestar, and Thistleclaw. And most importantly, I like Ashfur having a good/respectable father to further highlight how he contrasts with Brambleclaw.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 15, 2024 22:34:35 GMT -5
I feel like most things the authors say get proven wrong later once enough time has passed.
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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 16, 2024 3:15:11 GMT -5
I feel like most things the authors say get proven wrong later once enough time has passed. There have still been many statements that have proven to be true / partially true. Some readers tend to reject all of their statements, even when they make sense and are even very probable. I will of course mention the famous double death of Spottedleaf. The authors (I don't remember which ones) had declared that she had disappeared for good so that Firestar would never have to choose between Sandstorm and her. So yes, it is unfair and cruel to Sandstorm. Yes, the message is absolutely awful. But I am always perplexed when I see fans say that it makes no sense and that it should not be considered canon. Firestar was written throughout the saga to never completely give up on Spottedleaf. This has always been very clear, in my eyes at least it is obvious. I honestly don't understand how someone can read "Firestar's Quest", "The Last Hope" and "Bramblestar's Storm" and then claim that Firestar had gotten over his feelings for Spottedleaf. There's ambiguity in all of Firestar's thoughts about Spottedleaf, the narrative always suggests that their relationship is more than just friendly. Honestly, why would they have Spottedleaf die off for good, right before Firestar dies himself, if the writers didn't honestly think he might have been hesitant between her and Sandstorm? Spottedleaf is literally the only StarClan warrior to disappear for good in Arc 4. Still, I think it was a terrible idea to have Spottedleaf die off for good. Spottedleaf, Firestar, and Sandstorm should have ended up in StarClan, Firestar should have given up on Spottedleaf (perhaps realizing that his feelings for her were just a fantasy, fueled by the impossibility of their relationship). I'm relieved they didn't do the same thing with Silverstream/Millie/Graystripe or Feathertail/Crowfeather/Leafpool. Anyway, all this is to say that some statements have been proven true, but many readers simply refuse to accept them because they don't like them.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Oct 16, 2024 10:40:16 GMT -5
I feel like most things the authors say get proven wrong later once enough time has passed. There have still been many statements that have proven to be true / partially true. Some readers tend to reject all of their statements, even when they make sense and are even very probable. I will of course mention the famous double death of Spottedleaf. The authors (I don't remember which ones) had declared that she had disappeared for good so that Firestar would never have to choose between Sandstorm and her. So yes, it is unfair and cruel to Sandstorm. Yes, the message is absolutely awful. But I am always perplexed when I see fans say that it makes no sense and that it should not be considered canon. Firestar was written throughout the saga to never completely give up on Spottedleaf. This has always been very clear, in my eyes at least it is obvious. I honestly don't understand how someone can read "Firestar's Quest", "The Last Hope" and "Bramblestar's Storm" and then claim that Firestar had gotten over his feelings for Spottedleaf. There's ambiguity in all of Firestar's thoughts about Spottedleaf, the narrative always suggests that their relationship is more than just friendly. Honestly, why would they have Spottedleaf die off for good, right before Firestar dies himself, if the writers didn't honestly think he might have been hesitant between her and Sandstorm? Spottedleaf is literally the only StarClan warrior to disappear for good in Arc 4. Still, I think it was a terrible idea to have Spottedleaf die off for good. Spottedleaf, Firestar, and Sandstorm should have ended up in StarClan, Firestar should have given up on Spottedleaf (perhaps realizing that his feelings for her were just a fantasy, fueled by the impossibility of their relationship). I'm relieved they didn't do the same thing with Silverstream/Millie/Graystripe or Feathertail/Crowfeather/Leafpool. Anyway, all this is to say that some statements have been proven true, but many readers simply refuse to accept them because they don't like them. I hated that reason as well. Moving on from Spottedleaf makes sense when Sandstorm and Firestar were still alive (and she even approves of him doing that). But when they’re all dead there’s no reason he couldn’t have loved them both. It’s clear he had a relationship with both of them, so there’s no reason why they couldn’t have been all together in death. It’s the same with other relationships that had this happen. Just because someone moved on from a dead love to get together with someone else that’s still alive doesn’t mean that they would magically stop loving the person that died or otherwise have fond memories of them. And if everyone is together after they die, there’s no reason that they couldn’t all live together and understand each other’s choices. The idea of choosing someone after everyone dies is just done poorly, especially when it doesn’t seem to be a problem if at least one of the pair is alive provided the person that is living can still function. I might be more annoyed because I had family that remarried when spouses passed away unexpectedly and it was clear they loved both even though they kept going. So there would’ve been no choice between one or the other in their minds and memories because the only plausible choice was both. But that’s just my own personal experience; who knows what the authors were thinking about this.
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Post by pouetfairy on Oct 17, 2024 2:50:20 GMT -5
There have still been many statements that have proven to be true / partially true. Some readers tend to reject all of their statements, even when they make sense and are even very probable. I will of course mention the famous double death of Spottedleaf. The authors (I don't remember which ones) had declared that she had disappeared for good so that Firestar would never have to choose between Sandstorm and her. So yes, it is unfair and cruel to Sandstorm. Yes, the message is absolutely awful. But I am always perplexed when I see fans say that it makes no sense and that it should not be considered canon. Firestar was written throughout the saga to never completely give up on Spottedleaf. This has always been very clear, in my eyes at least it is obvious. I honestly don't understand how someone can read "Firestar's Quest", "The Last Hope" and "Bramblestar's Storm" and then claim that Firestar had gotten over his feelings for Spottedleaf. There's ambiguity in all of Firestar's thoughts about Spottedleaf, the narrative always suggests that their relationship is more than just friendly. Honestly, why would they have Spottedleaf die off for good, right before Firestar dies himself, if the writers didn't honestly think he might have been hesitant between her and Sandstorm? Spottedleaf is literally the only StarClan warrior to disappear for good in Arc 4. Still, I think it was a terrible idea to have Spottedleaf die off for good. Spottedleaf, Firestar, and Sandstorm should have ended up in StarClan, Firestar should have given up on Spottedleaf (perhaps realizing that his feelings for her were just a fantasy, fueled by the impossibility of their relationship). I'm relieved they didn't do the same thing with Silverstream/Millie/Graystripe or Feathertail/Crowfeather/Leafpool. Anyway, all this is to say that some statements have been proven true, but many readers simply refuse to accept them because they don't like them. I hated that reason as well. Moving on from Spottedleaf makes sense when Sandstorm and Firestar were still alive (and she even approves of him doing that). But when they’re all dead there’s no reason he couldn’t have loved them both. It’s clear he had a relationship with both of them, so there’s no reason why they couldn’t have been all together in death. It’s the same with other relationships that had this happen. Just because someone moved on from a dead love to get together with someone else that’s still alive doesn’t mean that they would magically stop loving the person that died or otherwise have fond memories of them. And if everyone is together after they die, there’s no reason that they couldn’t all live together and understand each other’s choices. The idea of choosing someone after everyone dies is just done poorly, especially when it doesn’t seem to be a problem if at least one of the pair is alive provided the person that is living can still function. I might be more annoyed because I had family that remarried when spouses passed away unexpectedly and it was clear they loved both even though they kept going. So there would’ve been no choice between one or the other in their minds and memories because the only plausible choice was both. But that’s just my own personal experience; who knows what the authors were thinking about this. I totally agree with you, I also think that no one should have to choose the spouse they loved the most in heaven, especially when it was death that separated you and without it, you might have stayed together for the rest of your lives. However, I have mixed feelings about the Spottedleaf/Firestar/Sandstorm case. I agree with your reasoning, but I definitely don't think it's fair to put Spottedleaf on the same level as Sandstorm. In her place, I would find it very insulting. The irrational attraction and obsession that Spottedleaf and Firestar have for each other is not healthy; I find their pairing very interesting for all that it represents, but I think it was essential to put an end to it. However, I agree with you about Graystripe/Millie/Silverstream and Feathertail/Crowfeather/Leafpool. Silverstream and Feathertail were more than just "childish crushes" on their mates, it still blows my mind when I read that.
One died giving birth to her mate's children, the other sacrificed herself to save the life of the one she loves. One thought about joining ThunderClan to be with her spouse ; the other argued that once the Clans moved, nothing would be the same and her relationship would be fine. The idea of having to choose between your mates in these two circumstances is appalling, especially when you consider that Crowfeather and Graystripe never stopped mourning them.
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Post by wheeledwarrior on Oct 17, 2024 11:58:42 GMT -5
I hated that reason as well. Moving on from Spottedleaf makes sense when Sandstorm and Firestar were still alive (and she even approves of him doing that). But when they’re all dead there’s no reason he couldn’t have loved them both. It’s clear he had a relationship with both of them, so there’s no reason why they couldn’t have been all together in death. It’s the same with other relationships that had this happen. Just because someone moved on from a dead love to get together with someone else that’s still alive doesn’t mean that they would magically stop loving the person that died or otherwise have fond memories of them. And if everyone is together after they die, there’s no reason that they couldn’t all live together and understand each other’s choices. The idea of choosing someone after everyone dies is just done poorly, especially when it doesn’t seem to be a problem if at least one of the pair is alive provided the person that is living can still function. I might be more annoyed because I had family that remarried when spouses passed away unexpectedly and it was clear they loved both even though they kept going. So there would’ve been no choice between one or the other in their minds and memories because the only plausible choice was both. But that’s just my own personal experience; who knows what the authors were thinking about this. I totally agree with you, I also think that no one should have to choose the spouse they loved the most in heaven, especially when it was death that separated you and without it, you might have stayed together for the rest of your lives. However, I have mixed feelings about the Spottedleaf/Firestar/Sandstorm case. I agree with your reasoning, but I definitely don't think it's fair to put Spottedleaf on the same level as Sandstorm. In her place, I would find it very insulting. The irrational attraction and obsession that Spottedleaf and Firestar have for each other is not healthy; I find their pairing very interesting for all that it represents, but I think it was essential to put an end to it. However, I agree with you about Graystripe/Millie/Silverstream and Feathertail/Crowfeather/Leafpool. Silverstream and Feathertail were more than just "childish crushes" on their mates, it still blows my mind when I read that.
One died giving birth to her mate's children, the other sacrificed herself to save the life of the one she loves. One thought about joining ThunderClan to be with her spouse ; the other argued that once the Clans moved, nothing would be the same and her relationship would be fine. The idea of having to choose between your mates in these two circumstances is appalling, especially when you consider that Crowfeather and Graystripe never stopped mourning them.
I think you’re right in that case. What most likely would’ve happened was that they probably wouldn’t have stayed together. I think this would’ve been the case even if the rules were bent so Spottedleaf and Firestar could be together. They probably would’ve been friends, but that’s probably as far as it would’ve went. Come to think of it, Warriors has never had a pairing where someone had a spouse, that spouse died, they remarried, and the spouses were on equal footing. It would’ve been interesting if that happened. The closest I think to that was Palebird, but we don’t see much of the second marriage because Tallstar has grown up and has other duties. I was wondering if we would see something similar with Cloudtail even though both potential spouses were still alive (since polygamy exists to some extent in the series and it’s at least tolerated), but that never happened. The closest thing to that is Willowpelt and possibly Goldenflower (which also assumes her first mate died), but we never see the logistics of that or the relationships to know what’s going on. There’s also Blackstar, but one parent cheated on the other so I don’t count that. Same thing with Appledusk.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Oct 18, 2024 23:29:42 GMT -5
I feel like most things the authors say get proven wrong later once enough time has passed. There have still been many statements that have proven to be true / partially true. Some readers tend to reject all of their statements, even when they make sense and are even very probable. ope I meant my comment as a joke, sorry if that wasn't clear. but it does feel sometimes like if you wait long enough then a lot of "word of god" statements get proven wrong in this series - part of the hazards of having multiple ghostwriters with conflicting conceptions of the world and characters.
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