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Post by asrise on Jul 7, 2024 12:52:04 GMT -5
As a preface:
This is not excuse for how Lizardstripe treated Brokenkit and her own litter. I stand by the the statement that she should never have been a mother.
However, I think Lizardstripe is more complex than most people give her credit for. I've heard people say that she should have gone to the dark forest, or that she was as bad as Rainflower, but this just isn't the case in my opinion. While she is awful to her kits, it's because she didn't want them at all, not just because she felt like tormenting little children.
Multiple times, Lizardstripe is unhappy about the idea of becoming a nursery queen, and wishes she could have continued being a warrior, even when others congratulate her for having kits. It's also implied in Yellowfang's Secret that she was pressured into having kits with Mudclaw, which contributes to her dislike of her own children.
Given all that, is it a surprise that she reacts badly when Raggedstar pushes his own child into her care? It must have felt very similar to Mudclaw's actions, and on top of that, she is kept in the dark about anything besides the fact that it is Raggedstar's kit, so she must have thought that she was being used. (Which she was, by the way).
I think that Lizardstripe should have been given the opportunity to pass her kits down to another warrior more willing to take care of them, like Hollyflower, but her background isn't really expanded on enough for this to happen.
So, these are my thoughts about Lizardstripe and why I can't bring myself to hate her as much as a cat like Rainflower. I think the fandom as a whole has neglected to actually look at the events behind her actions, and she deserves a more nuanced opinion. Once again, I want to repeat that she was absolutely a bad mother, and it wouldn't be inaccurate to call her a bad cat, given how she took out her anger on kits. But she wasn't awful without reason.
What are your thoughts about Lizardstripe?
Edit: I am in no way justifying Lizardstripe's actions. She's an awful cat. I'm more saying that this is a cycle of abuse kind of case, not just that Lizardstipe is evil.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Jul 7, 2024 13:05:04 GMT -5
It's not that the fandom doesn't understand her behavior, it's that any reasoning behind it hardly matters when she starts taking her frustrations out on children. That usually tends to shut any further discussion on possible nuance right up. As if her resentment towards the kits wasn't bad enough, it's mentioned that she'd nip Brokenkit and deprive him of milk! It also probably doesn't help that Lizardstripe was already a bit of a bully even before this.
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on Jul 7, 2024 13:09:53 GMT -5
These are basically my exact thoughts on her too tbh. There's something to be said for the implied pressure on queens in WC as a whole to have kits overall honestly, and I don't thinks it's fair to paint Lizardstripe out as Exactly Like Rainflower when there's a significant difference between the two of them.
To a lesser extent I think Pinenose later on also seems a tiny bit similar. I feel very bad for her And Violetkit in that scenario.
Edit just in case because I can see people going "omg so you think she's right???" despite the entire thread saying "the way she treated her kits was still wrong": yeah I mean the way she treated her kits was still wrong
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Post by kitters on Jul 7, 2024 16:48:35 GMT -5
Yo where's the abortion berry in these books.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jul 7, 2024 22:30:37 GMT -5
At the very least, it made her a more complex/interesting antagonist than the usual "they're evil just because" drivel we often get.
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Post by Jayie on Jul 8, 2024 1:57:19 GMT -5
I absolutely agree she was put in a shitty situation. But I cannot have any sympathy for her anymore once she started being actively abusive to her own children, and the child put into her care. No, she didnโt want them and should never have been forced to have them, but that doesnโt give her any right to take her anger about that out on them. I donโt blame anyone for thinking she should have gone to the Dark Forest - abusive is evil.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Jul 8, 2024 4:38:24 GMT -5
One of the few she-cats to not actually want kids and they made her abuse a child. Incredibly poor representation, I have no idea why they chose to do that
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Post by ๐ฑ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ on Jul 8, 2024 5:00:34 GMT -5
As others have already said it better than I ever could, my sympathy is with Lizardstripe regarding her being pressured into having kits by Clan society despite not wanting them herself, which is an unfortunate situation for her to be in for sure. But that sympathy for her ends when it comes to the abuse she put her kits and Brokenkit through in turn. No amount of reasoning there is for her actions justifies the child abuse she inflicted on them. It's merely an explanation for her behaviour but not an excuse.
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