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Post by 33503350aa on Jun 2, 2024 10:43:53 GMT -5
SPOILERS FOR TBC‼️❕‼️
I need to know the thought process that went into writing Darktails spirit death. It was honestly pathetic that he got beaten by cats like violetshine and needletail. He was beaten way too easily he didn’t even fight back which suprised me since he is superior than both of them. The writes basically brought him back to get destroyed by 2 she cats. Sorry for the rant but it’s just annoying that such a big character got beaten like that. He should’ve faced a better competitor such as Hawkwing or Onestar
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Jun 2, 2024 11:00:31 GMT -5
If Darktail had to be there at all, Onestar killed him once already, it would've just been redundant if he killed him again. Hawkwing would've worked too, but he wasn't SkyClan's representative, and given how affected Darktail's presence was on Needletail and Violetshine, it makes perfect sense why they were the ones to kill him again, never mind that he was very clearly outnumbered anyway.
Also, you don't have to worry about spoiler warnings, those are only for new books, and even then, it's only for a month.
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maggotpaw
named my son maggotkit because i hate him
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Post by maggotpaw on Jun 2, 2024 11:14:30 GMT -5
Is the issue that he got defeated by “2 she cats”?
I don’t see how Onestar on his own is any stronger (or less pathetic) than Violetshine + Needletail as a duo.
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Post by 33503350aa on Jun 2, 2024 11:55:53 GMT -5
Is the issue that he got defeated by “2 she cats”? I don’t see how Onestar on his own is any stronger (or less pathetic) than Violetshine + Needletail as a duo. I worded that horrible XD, I meant that he got defeated by “some cats” that aren’t that skilled. And I wouldn’t mind him losing to both of them, but it becomes a problem when he dosent even land one hit and just gets folded too easily
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Post by User33 on Jun 2, 2024 12:32:46 GMT -5
Onestar never struck me as a particularly good fighter.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 2, 2024 12:40:06 GMT -5
Is the issue that he got defeated by “2 she cats”? I don’t see how Onestar on his own is any stronger (or less pathetic) than Violetshine + Needletail as a duo. I worded that horrible XD, I meant that he got defeated by “some cats” that aren’t that skilled. And I wouldn’t mind him losing to both of them, but it becomes a problem when he dosent even land one hit and just gets folded too easily But Darktail was never a good fighter. He was just a bully who hid behind his gang and took advantage of foes who were weakened. The only cat he ever beat in a fair fight was Rain, and it's not like Rain was super strong or anything either. We saw that he lost several times to Onestar, with him only getting away because of Onestar's guilt over fathering him. Onestar even says in Onestar's Confession that Darktail doesn't have proper training to know many moves. It's not surprising that someone like him wouldn't do very well in a 2v1, and it's ironic in a way that the cat who relied on his gang who kill others ends up killed again by getting ganged up on by his victims.
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Post by 33503350aa on Jun 2, 2024 13:12:28 GMT -5
I worded that horrible XD, I meant that he got defeated by “some cats” that aren’t that skilled. And I wouldn’t mind him losing to both of them, but it becomes a problem when he dosent even land one hit and just gets folded too easily But Darktail was never a good fighter. He was just a bully who hid behind his gang and took advantage of foes who were weakened. The only cat he ever beat in a fair fight was Rain, and it's not like Rain was super strong or anything either. We saw that he lost several times to Onestar, with him only getting away because of Onestar's guilt over fathering him. Onestar even says in Onestar's Confession that Darktail doesn't have proper training to know many moves. It's not surprising that someone like him wouldn't do very well in a 2v1, and it's ironic in a way that the cat who relied on his gang who kill others ends up killed again by getting ganged up on by his victims. Darktail beat Onestar once but he drowned aswell. And in the beginning of SS, Onestar has him pinned down but he throws him off and pins him on the ground. Rain is a rogue and so is Darktail, don’t u think that aggressive cats like them haven’t fought often? Also it’s kinda an contradiction to Darktails character, he doesn’t value the weak so rain must have been somewhat strong. Not to mention that he obliterated Rowanstar in a 1v1 iirc. He dosent have cats do his dirty work all the time besides Tigerstar,Brokenstar,Hawkfrost,Slash,Scourge etc also have cats do their dirty work. Dosent mean they they can’t fight
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Post by 𓆩♡𓆪Moonshine𓆩♡𓆪 on Jun 2, 2024 14:10:19 GMT -5
Darktail was done dirty in the fact that he was killed off midway through AVoS and left us with boring filler for another 3 books.
He also kind of came out of nowhere in ALitM. No build up or anything?
Cats like Tigerstar, Hawkfrost and Ashfur were around for at least 5-6 books, why not Darktail?
Turns out, the readers were the ones done dirty all along!
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Jun 2, 2024 14:27:55 GMT -5
I worded that horrible XD, I meant that he got defeated by “some cats” that aren’t that skilled. And I wouldn’t mind him losing to both of them, but it becomes a problem when he dosent even land one hit and just gets folded too easily But Darktail was never a good fighter. He was just a bully who hid behind his gang and took advantage of foes who were weakened. The only cat he ever beat in a fair fight was Rain, and it's not like Rain was super strong or anything either. We saw that he lost several times to Onestar, with him only getting away because of Onestar's guilt over fathering him. Onestar even says in Onestar's Confession that Darktail doesn't have proper training to know many moves. It's not surprising that someone like him wouldn't do very well in a 2v1, and it's ironic in a way that the cat who relied on his gang who kill others ends up killed again by getting ganged up on by his victims. Not sure if it was a fair fight or not, but he killed Sharpclaw who is known to be strong.
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Post by 33503350aa on Jun 2, 2024 14:38:53 GMT -5
Darktail was done dirty in the fact that he was killed off midway through AVoS and left us with boring filler for another 3 books. He also kind of came out of nowhere in ALitM. No build up or anything? Cats like Tigerstar, Hawkfrost and Ashfur were around for at least 5-6 books, why not Darktail? Turns out, the readers were the ones done dirty all along! I mean it would’ve ruined the element of suprise. We as readers assume that after Darktails death in avos he would’ve been gone forever just like scourge (because of the whole, dosent believe in the starclan thing) The build up would’ve just ruined the shocking reveal
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Jun 2, 2024 19:11:15 GMT -5
Darktail was done dirty in the fact that he was killed off midway through AVoS and left us with boring filler for another 3 books. He also kind of came out of nowhere in ALitM. No build up or anything? Cats like Tigerstar, Hawkfrost and Ashfur were around for at least 5-6 books, why not Darktail? Turns out, the readers were the ones done dirty all along! I mean it would’ve ruined the element of suprise. We as readers assume that after Darktails death in avos he would’ve been gone forever just like scourge (because of the whole, dosent believe in the starclan thing) The build up would’ve just ruined the shocking reveal I think it was because it seemed so jarring and out of left field.
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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 2, 2024 20:59:05 GMT -5
But Darktail was never a good fighter. He was just a bully who hid behind his gang and took advantage of foes who were weakened. The only cat he ever beat in a fair fight was Rain, and it's not like Rain was super strong or anything either. We saw that he lost several times to Onestar, with him only getting away because of Onestar's guilt over fathering him. Onestar even says in Onestar's Confession that Darktail doesn't have proper training to know many moves. It's not surprising that someone like him wouldn't do very well in a 2v1, and it's ironic in a way that the cat who relied on his gang who kill others ends up killed again by getting ganged up on by his victims. Not sure if it was a fair fight or not, but he killed Sharpclaw who is known to be strong. Not remotely a fair fight. Darktail starts off the fight by trying to ambush him and failing at it, then Sharpclaw bloodies his face in the ensuing fight, at which point Darktail calls up Rain to and the pair kill Sharpclaw by doubleteaming him. It further solidifies that Darktail isn't on the level of a strong warrior, and has to rely on tricks and his gang to win against them. Onestar's Confession makes it clear that it that Darktail didn't beat Onestar in the lake, Onestar deliberately chose to drown him and drag him to the bottom in order to make sure Darktail died rather than letting him escape. As for the SS fight, Darktail doesn't pin Onestar down. All he does is knock him down and then threaten Onestar with his secret. Nice exploitation of Onestar's psychological weakness, but not much of a showing of skill or strength. Aggressive cats fight often, but just fighting a lot doesn't make them strong. Many warriors fight a lot yet aren't particularly above average in strength. Darktail might value strength, but what his standard is for strength when he's totally ignorant of many aspects of warrior culture is pretty suspect. To say nothing of the fact that what Darktail values more than strength is his goons being able to be bullied and cowed into submission. As to the fight with Rowanstar, the exact same chapter also describes Rowanstar as still weak from his illness, with his voice hoarse, ribs showing, and needing to rest. It's just another showing of Darktail proving himself to be a master of beating sick cats and little else. The difference between Darktail and most of those is that those actually DO win fights cleanly by themselves without their goons and are respected by strong peers as being top class fighters. Darktail IS quite similar to Brokenstar, who was also an unimpressive fighter who didn't win much of any fair fights himself.
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Jun 2, 2024 23:24:50 GMT -5
Darktail showing up in ALitM is pure fanservice and one of the dumber decisions the authors made in TBC. And that’s saying something.
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Jun 3, 2024 5:54:49 GMT -5
Not sure if it was a fair fight or not, but he killed Sharpclaw who is known to be strong. Not remotely a fair fight. Darktail starts off the fight by trying to ambush him and failing at it, then Sharpclaw bloodies his face in the ensuing fight, at which point Darktail calls up Rain to and the pair kill Sharpclaw by doubleteaming him. It further solidifies that Darktail isn't on the level of a strong warrior, and has to rely on tricks and his gang to win against them. [ Alright, thanks!
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Bisexual
#64C7FF
Name Colour
finland
Porgs are love
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Post by finland on Jun 3, 2024 8:06:32 GMT -5
My issues is him being killed off half way through A Vision of Shadows
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Post by 273637 on Jun 3, 2024 14:00:55 GMT -5
Not sure if it was a fair fight or not, but he killed Sharpclaw who is known to be strong. Not remotely a fair fight. Darktail starts off the fight by trying to ambush him and failing at it, then Sharpclaw bloodies his face in the ensuing fight, at which point Darktail calls up Rain to and the pair kill Sharpclaw by doubleteaming him. It further solidifies that Darktail isn't on the level of a strong warrior, and has to rely on tricks and his gang to win against them. Onestar's Confession makes it clear that it that Darktail didn't beat Onestar in the lake, Onestar deliberately chose to drown him and drag him to the bottom in order to make sure Darktail died rather than letting him escape. As for the SS fight, Darktail doesn't pin Onestar down. All he does is knock him down and then threaten Onestar with his secret. Nice exploitation of Onestar's psychological weakness, but not much of a showing of skill or strength. Aggressive cats fight often, but just fighting a lot doesn't make them strong. Many warriors fight a lot yet aren't particularly above average in strength. Darktail might value strength, but what his standard is for strength when he's totally ignorant of many aspects of warrior culture is pretty suspect. To say nothing of the fact that what Darktail values more than strength is his goons being able to be bullied and cowed into submission. As to the fight with Rowanstar, the exact same chapter also describes Rowanstar as still weak from his illness, with his voice hoarse, ribs showing, and needing to rest. It's just another showing of Darktail proving himself to be a master of beating sick cats and little else. The difference between Darktail and most of those is that those actually DO win fights cleanly by themselves without their goons and are respected by strong peers as being top class fighters. Darktail IS quite similar to Brokenstar, who was also an unimpressive fighter who didn't win much of any fair fights himself. Sure, Onestar deliberately drowned himself and Darktail but that was when he was far into the lake and knew that it had to go down one way or the other, prior to that they were relative in combat, neither was able to the defeat the other before it escalated. Now you do have a point that cats who fight often aren’t necessarily strong. But that could be said about anyone like Needletail for example. Not to mention that Darktail probably fought more often than cats that lived in his era. The experience difference could very much mean that he is above the average clan cat in terms of skill. My bad for going off topic but Brokenstar isn’t that weak, he may have lost to Yellowfang but we didn’t know the context, was he ambushed or not. Treating it like a fair fight wouldn’t be rational. The fact that he decimated Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud more than proves that he is capable of fighting. (Let’s also not forget that Firestar lost to Brokenstar when he was clearly holding back in TLH). In BLR and YS he beats Tallstar iirc. In conclusion Darktail has beaten Rain and was relative to Onestar. Don’t you think that he should’ve won when he was dealing with not so skilled opponents?
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Post by User33 on Jun 3, 2024 14:11:58 GMT -5
Not remotely a fair fight. Darktail starts off the fight by trying to ambush him and failing at it, then Sharpclaw bloodies his face in the ensuing fight, at which point Darktail calls up Rain to and the pair kill Sharpclaw by doubleteaming him. It further solidifies that Darktail isn't on the level of a strong warrior, and has to rely on tricks and his gang to win against them. Onestar's Confession makes it clear that it that Darktail didn't beat Onestar in the lake, Onestar deliberately chose to drown him and drag him to the bottom in order to make sure Darktail died rather than letting him escape. As for the SS fight, Darktail doesn't pin Onestar down. All he does is knock him down and then threaten Onestar with his secret. Nice exploitation of Onestar's psychological weakness, but not much of a showing of skill or strength. Aggressive cats fight often, but just fighting a lot doesn't make them strong. Many warriors fight a lot yet aren't particularly above average in strength. Darktail might value strength, but what his standard is for strength when he's totally ignorant of many aspects of warrior culture is pretty suspect. To say nothing of the fact that what Darktail values more than strength is his goons being able to be bullied and cowed into submission. As to the fight with Rowanstar, the exact same chapter also describes Rowanstar as still weak from his illness, with his voice hoarse, ribs showing, and needing to rest. It's just another showing of Darktail proving himself to be a master of beating sick cats and little else. The difference between Darktail and most of those is that those actually DO win fights cleanly by themselves without their goons and are respected by strong peers as being top class fighters. Darktail IS quite similar to Brokenstar, who was also an unimpressive fighter who didn't win much of any fair fights himself. Sure, Onestar deliberately drowned himself and Darktail but that was when he was far into the lake and knew that it had to go down one way or the other, prior to that they were relative in combat, neither was able to the defeat the other before it escalated. Now you do have a point that cats who fight often aren’t necessarily strong. But that could be said about anyone like Needletail for example. Not to mention that Darktail probably fought more often than cats that lived in his era. The experience difference could very much mean that he is above the average clan cat in terms of skill. My bad for going off topic but Brokenstar isn’t that weak, he may have lost to Yellowfang but we didn’t know the context, was he ambushed or not. Treating it like a fair fight wouldn’t be rational. The fact that he decimated Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud more than proves that he is capable of fighting. (Let’s also not forget that Firestar lost to Brokenstar when he was clearly holding back in TLH). In BLR and YS he beats Tallstar iirc. In conclusion Darktail has beaten Rain and was relative to Onestar. Don’t you think that he should’ve won when he was dealing with not so skilled opponents? I just want to point out about Firestar losing to Brokenstar: Firestar lost his footing against Brokenstar in TLH and flopped on the ground. From memory its implied that Brokenstar just kinda stood there like an idiot while the exchange between Sandstorm and Firestar about being on his last life was ushered out. Firestar's moment of falling to the ground doesn't lower his status of being a strong fighter nor does it boost Brokenstar's rating as a fighter in a overall sense. Since the initial clash between the two cats does not denote anything.
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Post by 273637 on Jun 3, 2024 15:18:43 GMT -5
Sure, Onestar deliberately drowned himself and Darktail but that was when he was far into the lake and knew that it had to go down one way or the other, prior to that they were relative in combat, neither was able to the defeat the other before it escalated. Now you do have a point that cats who fight often aren’t necessarily strong. But that could be said about anyone like Needletail for example. Not to mention that Darktail probably fought more often than cats that lived in his era. The experience difference could very much mean that he is above the average clan cat in terms of skill. My bad for going off topic but Brokenstar isn’t that weak, he may have lost to Yellowfang but we didn’t know the context, was he ambushed or not. Treating it like a fair fight wouldn’t be rational. The fact that he decimated Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud more than proves that he is capable of fighting. (Let’s also not forget that Firestar lost to Brokenstar when he was clearly holding back in TLH). In BLR and YS he beats Tallstar iirc. In conclusion Darktail has beaten Rain and was relative to Onestar. Don’t you think that he should’ve won when he was dealing with not so skilled opponents? I just want to point out about Firestar losing to Brokenstar: Firestar lost his footing against Brokenstar in TLH and flopped on the ground. From memory its implied that Brokenstar just kinda stood there like an idiot while the exchange between Sandstorm and Firestar about being on his last life was ushered out. Firestar's moment of falling to the ground doesn't lower his status of being a strong fighter nor does it boost Brokenstar's rating as a fighter in a overall sense. Since the initial clash between the two cats does not denote anything. He didn’t lose his balance because of that reason, it’s literally explained right after that it’s because Brokenstar is extremely strong. I migyy but have worded it wrong earlier but not only is he skilled in battle, he got the physical strength aswell. Anyways he has a ton of other feats so
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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 4, 2024 9:25:23 GMT -5
Not remotely a fair fight. Darktail starts off the fight by trying to ambush him and failing at it, then Sharpclaw bloodies his face in the ensuing fight, at which point Darktail calls up Rain to and the pair kill Sharpclaw by doubleteaming him. It further solidifies that Darktail isn't on the level of a strong warrior, and has to rely on tricks and his gang to win against them. Onestar's Confession makes it clear that it that Darktail didn't beat Onestar in the lake, Onestar deliberately chose to drown him and drag him to the bottom in order to make sure Darktail died rather than letting him escape. As for the SS fight, Darktail doesn't pin Onestar down. All he does is knock him down and then threaten Onestar with his secret. Nice exploitation of Onestar's psychological weakness, but not much of a showing of skill or strength. Aggressive cats fight often, but just fighting a lot doesn't make them strong. Many warriors fight a lot yet aren't particularly above average in strength. Darktail might value strength, but what his standard is for strength when he's totally ignorant of many aspects of warrior culture is pretty suspect. To say nothing of the fact that what Darktail values more than strength is his goons being able to be bullied and cowed into submission. As to the fight with Rowanstar, the exact same chapter also describes Rowanstar as still weak from his illness, with his voice hoarse, ribs showing, and needing to rest. It's just another showing of Darktail proving himself to be a master of beating sick cats and little else. The difference between Darktail and most of those is that those actually DO win fights cleanly by themselves without their goons and are respected by strong peers as being top class fighters. Darktail IS quite similar to Brokenstar, who was also an unimpressive fighter who didn't win much of any fair fights himself. Sure, Onestar deliberately drowned himself and Darktail but that was when he was far into the lake and knew that it had to go down one way or the other, prior to that they were relative in combat, neither was able to the defeat the other before it escalated. Now you do have a point that cats who fight often aren’t necessarily strong. But that could be said about anyone like Needletail for example. Not to mention that Darktail probably fought more often than cats that lived in his era. The experience difference could very much mean that he is above the average clan cat in terms of skill. My bad for going off topic but Brokenstar isn’t that weak, he may have lost to Yellowfang but we didn’t know the context, was he ambushed or not. Treating it like a fair fight wouldn’t be rational. The fact that he decimated Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud more than proves that he is capable of fighting. (Let’s also not forget that Firestar lost to Brokenstar when he was clearly holding back in TLH). In BLR and YS he beats Tallstar iirc. In conclusion Darktail has beaten Rain and was relative to Onestar. Don’t you think that he should’ve won when he was dealing with not so skilled opponents? So at best, Darktail is just evenly matched with Onestar. Do you think Onestar would have done any better if he was ganged up on by a pair of decent warriors? I don't think so. Brokenstar defeating Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud would be neat were it not for the fact that he had an advantage in both cases. Beetlewhisker was apparently so stupid he wasn't expecting a fight and Ferncloud had to try to maneuver herself to keep the kits safe at the same time as fighting him. Even if he didn't have an advantage, both are average fighters with no particular accomplishments to their name, so it's hard to use that to brag. Nor did he defeat Firestar, as pointed out by User33. Firestar simply slipped when he attacked him, with no mention of Brokenstar having anything to do with it. The way the scene plays out makes it seem more like it's just due to Firestar's own exhaustion after fighting for so long rather than anything Brokenstar did. As for Tallstar? Blackfoot's Reckoning shows Brokenstar performing his favorite technique of attacking someone from behind to beat Tallstar. All in all, he's a lot like Darktail. What I think is that a 2v1 is a difficult battle when facing even mostly average warriors, and Darktail has nothing to his name that would say he would have done well in that situation. Beating Rain and being even with Onestar isn't good enough to merit thinking of him as being that good.
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Post by dandelions on Jun 4, 2024 10:58:52 GMT -5
If he had to get a spirit death, I think Needletail and Violetshine were the most appropriate choices to take him down based on their personal history (Hawkwing would have made sense too, but since his conflict with Darktail was in a super edition and he's barely a character in the main series, I think the others take precedence). My main issue is that he showed up at all, they even have characters in-universe question how he's here and it gets hand-waved with vague Ashfur powers.
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Post by 273637 on Jun 5, 2024 5:46:26 GMT -5
Sure, Onestar deliberately drowned himself and Darktail but that was when he was far into the lake and knew that it had to go down one way or the other, prior to that they were relative in combat, neither was able to the defeat the other before it escalated. Now you do have a point that cats who fight often aren’t necessarily strong. But that could be said about anyone like Needletail for example. Not to mention that Darktail probably fought more often than cats that lived in his era. The experience difference could very much mean that he is above the average clan cat in terms of skill. My bad for going off topic but Brokenstar isn’t that weak, he may have lost to Yellowfang but we didn’t know the context, was he ambushed or not. Treating it like a fair fight wouldn’t be rational. The fact that he decimated Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud more than proves that he is capable of fighting. (Let’s also not forget that Firestar lost to Brokenstar when he was clearly holding back in TLH). In BLR and YS he beats Tallstar iirc. In conclusion Darktail has beaten Rain and was relative to Onestar. Don’t you think that he should’ve won when he was dealing with not so skilled opponents? So at best, Darktail is just evenly matched with Onestar. Do you think Onestar would have done any better if he was ganged up on by a pair of decent warriors? I don't think so. Brokenstar defeating Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud would be neat were it not for the fact that he had an advantage in both cases. Beetlewhisker was apparently so stupid he wasn't expecting a fight and Ferncloud had to try to maneuver herself to keep the kits safe at the same time as fighting him. Even if he didn't have an advantage, both are average fighters with no particular accomplishments to their name, so it's hard to use that to brag. Nor did he defeat Firestar, as pointed out by User33. Firestar simply slipped when he attacked him, with no mention of Brokenstar having anything to do with it. The way the scene plays out makes it seem more like it's just due to Firestar's own exhaustion after fighting for so long rather than anything Brokenstar did. As for Tallstar? Blackfoot's Reckoning shows Brokenstar performing his favorite technique of attacking someone from behind to beat Tallstar. All in all, he's a lot like Darktail. What I think is that a 2v1 is a difficult battle when facing even mostly average warriors, and Darktail has nothing to his name that would say he would have done well in that situation. Beating Rain and being even with Onestar isn't good enough to merit thinking of him as being that good. I already said that I meant that Brokenstar was just physically strong. And that’s why Firestar “slipped” and where did you the fact that he slipped due to exhaustion? It’s literally mentioned that it was because Brokenstar was physically superior. And I don’t think he was exhausted, he was => to Tigerstar. Again Brokenstar fought Tallstar in YS and it wasn’t an ambush at all. In Fire and ice Brokenstar seems to be equal to Fireheart “ Fireheart leaped straight for Brokenstar and grasped the dark brown tabby with his claws. Life as an outlaw had treated the former Clan leader harshly—Fireheart could feel the ribs of the flea-bitten tom beneath his fur. But Brokenstar was still strong. He twisted around and sank his teeth into Fireheart’s hind leg. Fireheart yowled and hissed with rage, but kept his grip. Brokenstar struggled forward, scrabbling with his paws on the frozen ground. Fireheart felt his claws raking along Brokenstar’s bony flanks as the rogue warrior ripped himself free.” I know that this isn’t much but multiple statements made by Fireheart suggests that he was a very skilled opponent. And as for Darktail, being evenly matched with Onestar is a pretty big feat since he is more skilled than the average warrior. And what makes needletail and Violetshine skilled exactly? I don’t recall them fighting much or against skilled opponents
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Post by vectoring34 on Jun 5, 2024 12:59:51 GMT -5
So at best, Darktail is just evenly matched with Onestar. Do you think Onestar would have done any better if he was ganged up on by a pair of decent warriors? I don't think so. Brokenstar defeating Beetlewhisker and Ferncloud would be neat were it not for the fact that he had an advantage in both cases. Beetlewhisker was apparently so stupid he wasn't expecting a fight and Ferncloud had to try to maneuver herself to keep the kits safe at the same time as fighting him. Even if he didn't have an advantage, both are average fighters with no particular accomplishments to their name, so it's hard to use that to brag. Nor did he defeat Firestar, as pointed out by User33. Firestar simply slipped when he attacked him, with no mention of Brokenstar having anything to do with it. The way the scene plays out makes it seem more like it's just due to Firestar's own exhaustion after fighting for so long rather than anything Brokenstar did. As for Tallstar? Blackfoot's Reckoning shows Brokenstar performing his favorite technique of attacking someone from behind to beat Tallstar. All in all, he's a lot like Darktail. What I think is that a 2v1 is a difficult battle when facing even mostly average warriors, and Darktail has nothing to his name that would say he would have done well in that situation. Beating Rain and being even with Onestar isn't good enough to merit thinking of him as being that good. I already said that I meant that Brokenstar was just physically strong. And that’s why Firestar “slipped” and where did you the fact that he slipped due to exhaustion? It’s literally mentioned that it was because Brokenstar was physically superior. And I don’t think he was exhausted, he was => to Tigerstar. Again Brokenstar fought Tallstar in YS and it wasn’t an ambush at all. In Fire and ice Brokenstar seems to be equal to Fireheart “ Fireheart leaped straight for Brokenstar and grasped the dark brown tabby with his claws. Life as an outlaw had treated the former Clan leader harshly—Fireheart could feel the ribs of the flea-bitten tom beneath his fur. But Brokenstar was still strong. He twisted around and sank his teeth into Fireheart’s hind leg. Fireheart yowled and hissed with rage, but kept his grip. Brokenstar struggled forward, scrabbling with his paws on the frozen ground. Fireheart felt his claws raking along Brokenstar’s bony flanks as the rogue warrior ripped himself free.” I know that this isn’t much but multiple statements made by Fireheart suggests that he was a very skilled opponent. And as for Darktail, being evenly matched with Onestar is a pretty big feat since he is more skilled than the average warrior. And what makes needletail and Violetshine skilled exactly? I don’t recall them fighting much or against skilled opponents It's not 'literally mentioned' that Brokenstar was stronger and that's why he slipped. The fact that Firestar has been fighting non-stop and Sandstorm's concern is over lack of lives though strongly lends itself to interpreting the problem is with Firestar, and not with Brokenstar. Brokenstar never fought Tallstar in YS either. Your description of Brokenstar being equal also shows Brokenstar doing little else but being able to flee from him. How is Onestar much more skilled than Violetshine or Needletail? He's never been some good fighter. I don't think Violetshine or Needletail are very strong either, but two averages against someone who is at best SLIGHTLY above average is never going to end well for the outnumbered party. What I will say though is the fact that Darktail couldn't even hold a weakened Needletail down by himself and needed Sleekwhisker to help in that endeavor doesn't help his case.
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Post by 2836373728 on Jun 7, 2024 15:38:22 GMT -5
I already said that I meant that Brokenstar was just physically strong. And that’s why Firestar “slipped” and where did you the fact that he slipped due to exhaustion? It’s literally mentioned that it was because Brokenstar was physically superior. And I don’t think he was exhausted, he was => to Tigerstar. Again Brokenstar fought Tallstar in YS and it wasn’t an ambush at all. In Fire and ice Brokenstar seems to be equal to Fireheart “ Fireheart leaped straight for Brokenstar and grasped the dark brown tabby with his claws. Life as an outlaw had treated the former Clan leader harshly—Fireheart could feel the ribs of the flea-bitten tom beneath his fur. But Brokenstar was still strong. He twisted around and sank his teeth into Fireheart’s hind leg. Fireheart yowled and hissed with rage, but kept his grip. Brokenstar struggled forward, scrabbling with his paws on the frozen ground. Fireheart felt his claws raking along Brokenstar’s bony flanks as the rogue warrior ripped himself free.” I know that this isn’t much but multiple statements made by Fireheart suggests that he was a very skilled opponent. And as for Darktail, being evenly matched with Onestar is a pretty big feat since he is more skilled than the average warrior. And what makes needletail and Violetshine skilled exactly? I don’t recall them fighting much or against skilled opponents It's not 'literally mentioned' that Brokenstar was stronger and that's why he slipped. The fact that Firestar has been fighting non-stop and Sandstorm's concern is over lack of lives though strongly lends itself to interpreting the problem is with Firestar, and not with Brokenstar. Brokenstar never fought Tallstar in YS either. Your description of Brokenstar being equal also shows Brokenstar doing little else but being able to flee from him. How is Onestar much more skilled than Violetshine or Needletail? He's never been some good fighter. I don't think Violetshine or Needletail are very strong either, but two averages against someone who is at best SLIGHTLY above average is never going to end well for the outnumbered party. What I will say though is the fact that Darktail couldn't even hold a weakened Needletail down by himself and needed Sleekwhisker to help in that endeavor doesn't help his case. Darktail not being able to hold down a weakened Needletail is simply an outlier. His strength has been shown multiple times. Like the time where Needletail threw herself at Darktail with full force and speed but he bearly moved. He got direct inverse over her in terms of physical capabilities. And the problem I got is that Darktail didn’t even raise a paw to defend himself. He just stood there and took it all. An attempt would have been better than nothing. That’s an awful way of killing a main villain, such an anticlimactic death. And Onestar does have decent skills, he has participated in multiple battles and he fought Mudclaw briefly iirc. Back to Brokenstar. He didn’t really flea, he was able to shake out a decently strong warrior while being malnourished, now that simply shows his strength not combat I know but like I said. Firestar has mentioned that Brokenstar was a extremely skilled warrior multiple times. Are we also gonna forget about how he beat Dustpelt while being blind? “He only wants cats to do his dirty work” he only does that when it’s necessary. He went out of his way to fight thunderclan in a extremely poor state. Also he did fight Tallstar briefly during an attack on windclan when he was a warrior iirc. I’m gonna have to check it out tho
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on Jun 7, 2024 15:53:46 GMT -5
i think the biggest key here is to just accept that kitty power scaling is silly very often
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Post by 283828192 on Jun 10, 2024 12:05:36 GMT -5
i think the biggest key here is to just accept that kitty power scaling is silly very often “Accept that kitty power scaling is silly” you’re acting like it’s objective. And it’s fictional characters not regular why wouldn’t there be scaling involved when speaking about how strong they are?
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Post by mintedstar/fur on Jun 10, 2024 19:07:05 GMT -5
Since [screenname with string of numbers] may read this here, you didn't respond to our PM about how many spam accounts you were making, so I just kicked all of them. :/ It doesn't have anything to do with the contents of this topic, I'm just pointing this note here as a reference if you try to come back. Just 1 account, as per our and PB rules, not 7+.
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