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Post by iceheart on May 1, 2024 23:37:00 GMT -5
AVOS tells us that Rowanstar is a weak leader. They tell us but they don't show us. TUG 2.0 tried to fix that problem by stating that his problem was... um... "giving apprentices to new warriors." Which is really funny, because some of the mentors included Tigerheart, Tawnypelt, and Snowbird. Alongside that, Twigbranch & Finleap literally get apprentices despite being brand new warriors. Fireheart and Graystripe got apprentices when they weren't even a year old. Honestly they could've tried to give Rowanstar a better excuse on why he was such a weak leader.
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Post by Katanaheart on May 1, 2024 23:41:45 GMT -5
Tigerheart’s first and only official apprentice was Sleekwhisker. Although we did see him showing some promise in one of the field guides with demonstrating some ShadowClan technique? I think it was hunting.
Snowbird ironically had no apprentices until she got Lioneye for a brief amount of time until she became sick from yellow cough. Tigerheart then took over for Lionpaw’s training, not that it would last very long until the Kin took over anyway.
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Post by Viperstrike on May 1, 2024 23:51:06 GMT -5
They did Rowanstar dirty. He deserved to be given a chance. I will always root for him in my heart. 😔
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 2, 2024 0:40:53 GMT -5
I love AVoS, but it really was incredibly weird in how it treated Rowanstar. The definition of wasted potential! I mean, he literally became leader during a flood and ThunderClan had to help his tail twice (three times if you count letting Leafpool stay to help Dawnpelt before he sent her away) in a short amount of time, I see no reason why they couldn't have let the events BrS had on him have consequences. At least acknowledge it!
For example, maybe they start to take ThunderClan's constant involvement as a sign that while Rowanstar had been a good deputy, he can't handle it on his own as leader. This slowly leads to resentment—especially from the younger warriors and elders—that the apprentices soon pick up on, and it's only during the scene where Needlepaw defends the Kin the first time that it all comes to a head, maybe it even causes some cats to leave earlier than they did it canon. He'd still be blameless for the most part, but tying it in with previously established events would've at least made more sense than the Clan resenting him for... valuing peace and appointing young warriors as mentors?
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the Erins just didn't know what to do with him, all because they couldn't wait to get to Tigerstar-senpai! That part in TUG feels especially tacked on! What's funny is that the apprentice thing makes even less sense because, fine, maybe it's just ShadowClan that doesn't tolerate it... except one of the last cats Blackstar made a mentor was Ferretclaw to Spikepaw; Ferretclaw didn't become a warrior until TFW and BrS is set a year later! And there's a chance the allegiances could've just been copy-pasted for the most part, but it only gets worse since he's also listed as Spikepaw's mentor in CT, which is set earlier.
Either way, Ferretclaw was also a young warrior with an apprentice, why is this a problem for ShadowClan now? It's not even the first time either, as Ivytail was an apprentice at the same time the Three were and her apprentice was Dawnpelt. I guess it's because Stonewing and Waspwhisker became mentors immediately after becoming warriors (as even Ferretclaw and Ivytail spent a few moons at just being warriors first), but even then, the wording in the books makes it sound like it's him making mentors out of new warriors at all that's the problem, even though it's clearly not unique to him, and it's not like Stonewing and Waspwhisker were the only mentors, either. Hell, neither of them even trained Needletail or Sleekwhisker—the most prominent members of the Kin—that was Tawnypelt and Tigerheart!
Oh jeez, that turned out longer than I intended! Sorry, I guess I have far more feelings on this than I'd initially thought! ^^"
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Post by valleylight on May 2, 2024 11:47:19 GMT -5
That’s such a strange reason for TUG to give for Rowanstar’s downfall. If anything, his problem was a complete lack of any care or intentionality towards younger cats. He failed to promote unity or mutual respect in ShadowClan. Whether by pride, lack of vision, or simple passivity, he allowed his Clan to become a toxic environment, rife with resentment between the generations and bereft of empathy for one another.
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Post by iceheart on May 2, 2024 14:36:15 GMT -5
Tigerheart’s first and only official apprentice was Sleekwhisker. Although we did see him showing some promise in one of the field guides with demonstrating some ShadowClan technique? I think it was hunting. Snowbird ironically had no apprentices until she got Lioneye for a brief amount of time until she became sick from yellow cough. Tigerheart then took over for Lionpaw’s training, not that it would last very long until the Kin took over anyway. the problem was it was "new warriors" specifically that TUG 2.0 stated what made him a weak leader. Tigerheart and Snowbird weren't new warriors at all.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 2, 2024 17:07:34 GMT -5
New warriors having apprentices was never a problem until it was Rowanstar. Then suddenly it was an issue. I believe it was common for new or relatively new warriors to get apprentices throughout the series, only an issue when they needed a reason to make the readers favor Tigerstar II over Rowanstar. Could Rowanstar have handled the situation a little better? Probably, but making new warriors mentors was not the primary reason why the apprentices rebelled.
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Post by Moonblazer on May 2, 2024 21:36:57 GMT -5
As stated above, it was absolutely just an excuse they gave so they could shoehorn Tigerheart into leadership. You'll notice many times that things that were perfectly acceptable from other leaders were suddenly unacceptable when Rowanstar did it. Rowanstar refused to invade or attack Skyclan and was seen as weak for it. He finally does what his Warriors want and goes to challenge Skyclan, and all of a sudden when Tigerheart says it's a bad idea, the Clan suddenly blames Rowanstar yet again for... something they literally wanted to do earlier in the book.
The irony being that Tigerheart then proceeds to treat Skyclan like garbage when he becomes leader, but that's totally cool, because it's him doing it and he does no wrong. Can you smell my sarcasm from a mile away? Because it's strong.
I stand firmly that nothing Rowanstar did was any worse than what other leaders have done, he just had the unfortunate fate of being in the way of Tigerheart being leader. Which sucks, because there goes a leader who wasn't a Tiger or Fire kin who had so much potential to be written in such an interesting way. I know I'm an annoying parrot repeating years worth of my rants here but. Yeah. He deserved sooooooooo much better.
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