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Post by Hollyfall on Apr 26, 2024 14:41:51 GMT -5
What characters do you think or have seen that have received a level of vitriol that's disproportionate to what they actually do or deserve? I'm not saying they're unworthy of criticism at all of course, just that the level of hate is unwarranted.
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Post by dandelions on Apr 26, 2024 16:02:57 GMT -5
I don't think this is true anymore, but Leafpool. I remember after the release of Squirrelflight's Hope when she was newly dead, the level of celebration for her death/disdain for her character in some corners of the fandom really surprised me.
Also, Mistystar. Her biggest crimes I can remember are demoting Mothwing (which was bad, but pretty quickly made right, and I think the lifetime of trust between them after that makes it a moot point by now), and sticking around for so long that people got tired of her. Otherwise she was a pretty generic leader from what I remember, though I did like her more in her earlier appearances. (Edit: somehow I completely forgot what she does during TBC, which in my opinion is much more worthy of criticism)
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Apr 26, 2024 18:58:08 GMT -5
I always say her on these sort of threads but def Spottedleaf
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Post by mintleaf2 on Apr 26, 2024 19:58:29 GMT -5
Squilf for me - she’s hotheaded and rash but I don’t think she’s really that bad. She’s absolutely made bad decisions but she’s just not as evil and irredeemable as I think she can be made out to be. I actually always kinda liked that she had such a strong personality and didn’t just blend in with a lot of other characters. I totally get not liking her, I just don’t think she’s that bad.
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Post by cygna on Apr 26, 2024 20:47:26 GMT -5
Ivypool - She doesn't owe Dovewing anything, whether that be forgiveness, a relationship, etc. Dovewing is entitled to doing what she wants with her life, Ivypool is entitled to cutting her sister out of hers.
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Post by Nettle on Apr 27, 2024 18:34:39 GMT -5
I could make a list that goes from Australia to England, but I'll narrow it down.
Spottedleaf - Her relationship with Firepaw was seen as forced and gross, but that was bad writing, not making her a bad character.
Ivypool. - My favorite all-time character. Don't see why she received much hate apart from the fact she went to the dark forest, which I argue she took no part in, as she was quite obviously manipulated.
Brambleclaw. - I'm just going to say it- he was never abusive. It's not like I'm saying that because I like him, because I actually don't.
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Post by Viperstrike on Apr 27, 2024 21:01:35 GMT -5
Dovewing. She’s a little ditzy and bad at making decisions, but I think she’s pretty harmless and doesn’t deserve the hate she gets. Daisy. I don’t know if people still hate her, but I remember back in the day a ton of people wanting her to die because she was “useless” and “annoying.” I’ve personally always liked her. Spottedleaf, for the same reason Spicefang gave.
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Post by stormshade1 on Apr 28, 2024 10:33:43 GMT -5
Ferncloud. Ferncloud died because of the warriors fans who said she was too lazy and always stayed in the nursery and never did anything useful. So during the Great battle, the Erins killed her off to show that she could fight as ferociously as any warrior.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 28, 2024 19:35:48 GMT -5
Nightheart - I've seen people argue it's just a writing issue, but then others say they just down right don't like him because he's supposedly "misogynistic". I understand the writing criticism, but he seems to get a ridiculous amount of a beating over it, like we get it already. And he's accused of being misogynistic just because the characters that are most notably antagonistic towards him were Squirrelflight, Sparkpelt, and Finchlight.
Bramblestar - He gets treated no differently than a Dark Forest villain, which is nuts to me. He was never abusive, and I'm honestly tired of people making Squirrelflight out to be an angel. Or ignoring that they had a good relationship until POT. Also, in comparison to a lot of other leaders, Bramblestar did much better considerably.
Ivypool - She doesn't owe Dovewing anything, and honestly, I find it ironic how Dovewing is behaving now in the current books. People say that Ivypool was terrible as an apprentice, but that's just that, she was a kid. And she's matured since, has been promoted to deputy, has a family of her own, and has suffered true grief.
Daisy - One of the most significant members of the clan, she literally helped raised generations and has suffered so much already. She's not "useless" and I'm tired of people thinking she's a pushover, as if she wasn't slamming DF cats in face during the great battle.
Bumblestripe - Literally him just having feelings for another cat got him a ton of backlash, and accusations of being "Ashfur 2.0" when in reality he was just a socially awkward guy that didn't know he was constantly being compared to another tom for years. He wanted to make a relationship work, and was used out of convenience.
Nightcloud - She got treated like the "other woman" for years, and it was annoying to see people accuse her of being manipulative, abusive, and just as bad as Crowfeather. It was never an equal blame situation. He neglected their kit, and used her, despite how much she was willing to give him. She ended up even being the mature one of the two as well, and deserved better.
Breezepelt - I think it's beating a dead horse at this point. He has one of the better redemptions in warriors, and killing him off would have made him less compelling as a character imo. He's a father with to litter of kits and has shown how much he's changed in the current arc, even if his relationship with his own father, or others, hasn't been fully repaired.
Leopardstar - Her actions were almost just as bad as Blackstar, but he gets more of the benefit of the doubt and praise in the community over Leopardstar. When Leopard had an entire book that explained her actions (not excuse them), while Blackstar was just a lackie that did what he was told. I like them both, but the disparity of their treatment is a bit ridiculous. She was even able to hold her clan together with and iron will after the first arc, and made up for her actions as an inexperienced young leader, but even that's still not enough.
Mapleshade - I don't care if you dislike her, or have criticism toward her. But it doesn't sit right with me when people are quick to villainize her pre-exile, before she descended into madness by grief to avenge her kits. None of the other cats involved are without sin, and Mapleshade and her kits should have never been treated the way they were in the first place.
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Post by moongloweevee on Apr 28, 2024 21:25:27 GMT -5
Maplefrost- I would agree with you there with Breezepelt but one thing that will never sit right with me is the fact neither Jayfeather or Poppyfrost speak up about the time he almost murdered both of them at the moonpool (and Poppyfrost was pregnant with kits at the time). It's nice that he's a redeemed character but I wish the writers would remember that scene and make him make amends for it.
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Post by iceheart on Apr 28, 2024 23:00:50 GMT -5
Spottedleaf & Bumblestripe
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Apr 29, 2024 16:35:39 GMT -5
Maplefrost- I would agree with you there with Breezepelt but one thing that will never sit right with me is the fact neither Jayfeather or Poppyfrost speak up about the time he almost murdered both of them at the moonpool (and Poppyfrost was pregnant with kits at the time). It's nice that he's a redeemed character but I wish the writers would remember that scene and make him make amends for it. Imo it's just as much as a dead horse as people that constantly claim that Bramblestar never told anyone the truth about him training in the DF, and that supposedly makes him a hypocrite, only to have it casually confirmed that he did tell other cats (almost 20 years later) as of the ASC arc. Breezepelt, Jayfeather and Poppyfrost having any type of "closure scene" would only serve as fanservice, and wouldn't seem genuine at all, or redundant at this point. If it had happened in CT, or even like after the DF battle, sure, I could see it, but at this point, not so much. Everyone already knew Breezepelt was a traitor by the end of the DF battle, everyone already knew he did terrible things while the DF manipulated him, and even his own clan and father wanted him dead at one point. They also weren't quick to forgive him either, because they have reminded him of his actions a few times since. So it's not like his behavior was brushed under the rug, it's just that the particular moment with Poppy and Jay has become an irrelevant writing point, or falls under the other situations. I just think people using it to discredit Breezepelt's entire redemption arc are a bit nonsensical imo.
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Post by Birdskip on Apr 29, 2024 16:39:16 GMT -5
Squirrelflight for sure.
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Post by Chicken on Apr 29, 2024 21:03:06 GMT -5
Stick from SkyClan's Destiny. He's not the nicest of guys, but he's not evil either. He's just a leader trying to do what's best for his group, it's understandable why he'd be worried about Red being with Harley, he's part of the group who already seriously injured some cats in Stick's group, didn't some of them die? idr. Now, here's his daughter, who he's been raising as a single father basically sleeping with the enemy, so yeah, I think it's completely understandable. Outside of SkyClan's Destiny he's shown to help the protagonist cats a couple of times, so I don't get all the hate, it seems like I'm the only person who even likes him too
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Apr 29, 2024 21:43:26 GMT -5
Stick from SkyClan's Destiny. He's not the nicest of guys, but he's not evil either. He's just a leader trying to do what's best for his group, it's understandable why he'd be worried about Red being with Harley, he's part of the group who already seriously injured some cats in Stick's group, didn't some of them die? idr. Now, here's his daughter, who he's been raising as a single father basically sleeping with the enemy, so yeah, I think it's completely understandable. Outside of SkyClan's Destiny he's shown to help the protagonist cats a couple of times, so I don't get all the hate, it seems like I'm the only person who even likes him too I also liked Stick. I thought he was a compelling character with how his external and internal struggles vied with each other.
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Post by moongloweevee on Apr 29, 2024 21:56:47 GMT -5
Maplefrost- I would agree with you there with Breezepelt but one thing that will never sit right with me is the fact neither Jayfeather or Poppyfrost speak up about the time he almost murdered both of them at the moonpool (and Poppyfrost was pregnant with kits at the time). It's nice that he's a redeemed character but I wish the writers would remember that scene and make him make amends for it. Imo it's just as much as a dead horse as people that constantly claim that Bramblestar never told anyone the truth about him training in the DF, and that supposedly makes him a hypocrite, only to have it casually confirmed that he did tell other cats (almost 20 years later) as of the ASC arc. Breezepelt, Jayfeather and Poppyfrost having any type of "closure scene" would only serve as fanservice, and wouldn't seem genuine at all, or redundant at this point. If it had happened in CT, or even like after the DF battle, sure, I could see it, but at this point, not so much. Everyone already knew Breezepelt was a traitor by the end of the DF battle, everyone already knew he did terrible things while the DF manipulated him, and even his own clan and father wanted him dead at one point. They also weren't quick to forgive him either, because they have reminded him of his actions a few times since. So it's not like his behavior was brushed under the rug, it's just that the particular moment with Poppy and Jay has become an irrelevant writing point, or falls under the other situations. I just think people using it to discredit Breezepelt's entire redemption arc are a bit nonsensical imo. That's actually a fair point, thank you for that perspective on the matter.
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Post by Chicken on Apr 29, 2024 22:17:13 GMT -5
Stick from SkyClan's Destiny. He's not the nicest of guys, but he's not evil either. He's just a leader trying to do what's best for his group, it's understandable why he'd be worried about Red being with Harley, he's part of the group who already seriously injured some cats in Stick's group, didn't some of them die? idr. Now, here's his daughter, who he's been raising as a single father basically sleeping with the enemy, so yeah, I think it's completely understandable. Outside of SkyClan's Destiny he's shown to help the protagonist cats a couple of times, so I don't get all the hate, it seems like I'm the only person who even likes him too I also liked Stick. I thought he was a compelling character with how his external and internal struggles vied with each other. It's awesome to see another person who likes him lol, that's true, it's also interesting to think about how he must feel like I don't think many characters in the series could feel as tragic as accidentally killing their own child, who they spend their whole lives protecting, it's like his fear ended up being the cause of one of his major fears, it's kind of like the self fulfilling prophecy, I think it's interesting
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