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Post by Pixie on Apr 29, 2024 17:09:57 GMT -5
Justified. Firestar was just trying to do right by his Clan. Separating cats, I feel like, could hardly be considered a harsh judgement.
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Post by Whispering Willow on Apr 30, 2024 16:32:36 GMT -5
With 16 votes for Justified and 6 votes for Unjustified, Firestar is Justified!
Next scenario: Spotfur: In Spotfur’s Rebellion, Spotfur decides to lead a rebellion against the Impostor. She and Stemleaf realize that Bramblestar is not behaving like himself and grow unhappy with the way the Impostor treats the Clan, and so they gather cats from all of the Clans to discuss the issue and eventually try to kill Bramblestar. Was Spotfur justified in organizing and initiating a rebellion?
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 1, 2024 16:34:25 GMT -5
With 17 votes for Justified and 0 votes for Unjustified, Spotfur is Justified!
Next scenario: Nightheart: In Sky, Nightheart decides to join ShadowClan. He feels that he doesn’t belong in ThunderClan, as he thinks that he can’t live up to Firestar’s legacy and that he shouldn’t have to. He also feels that some cats, such as Squirrelflight, Sparkpelt, and Finchlight, are too harsh on and unkind to him, especially when he fails his warrior assessment a few times and after he rejects the original warrior name of Flameheart. He develops a crush on Sunbeam and chooses to join ShadowClan to be with her. Was Nightheart justified in leaving ThunderClan?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 1, 2024 16:40:42 GMT -5
Generally, I'd say justified, but because of how everything about his initial arc was executed, I'm honestly leaning towards no.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on May 1, 2024 22:59:56 GMT -5
Justified. They did treat him poorly, regardless if they seemed OOC. It was written that way, and that's the way it was. Nightheart had every right to feel the way he did.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 2, 2024 4:12:55 GMT -5
Neither, cause I don't think he needed justification at all. Even if he wasn't being treated poorly (even though it was OOC), he could move Clans and I'd have no issue with it, and this comes from someone who HATES Nightheart. I don't see the issue with wanting to be in a different Clan and I don't really see it as betrayal
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Post by Pixie on May 2, 2024 6:23:09 GMT -5
I think Nightheart’s justified due to personal autonomy. Even if he was treated well, it would’ve been justified for him to leave ThunderClan. As long as his choice didn’t hurt anybody (long term), it’s fine.
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Post by wygolvillage on May 2, 2024 7:45:37 GMT -5
Nightheart is justified. Cats should simply be allowed to make their own decisions and find themselves on their own terms. In my ideal world cats would be able to switch clans every week if they felt like it. Choosing his own name was awesome too! I really like that we have a character unafraid to express his own autonomy, and I think framing that autonomy as a "betrayal" of sorts is kind of.... I dunno, weird? Choosing your own name and taking issue with how you are treated isn't a betrayal.
I think the way his arc was resolved (with him and his mother meeting each other half-way) earned back any good will I might have lost during earlier books.
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on May 2, 2024 9:10:05 GMT -5
with nigthheart specifically the only thing he can ever be justified in is dying if we're lucky enough
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Post by moongloweevee on May 2, 2024 9:24:57 GMT -5
Nightheart is justified. Cats should simply be allowed to make their own decisions and find themselves on their own terms. In my ideal world cats would be able to switch clans every week if they felt like it. Choosing his own name was awesome too! I really like that we have a character unafraid to express his own autonomy, and I think framing that autonomy as a "betrayal" of sorts is kind of.... I dunno, weird? Choosing your own name and taking issue with how you are treated isn't a betrayal. I think the way his arc was resolved (with him and his mother meeting each other half-way) earned back any good will I might have lost during earlier books. Going to add onto this but legacy naming and expecting the person to be and act like their predecessor is a real thing and that's what Thunderclan essentially did to Flamepaw. They wanted him to be a cat who he couldn't be and he tried to make himself stand out but it ultimately fell on deaf ears. I went with justified with him because of it
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Post by 🎃👻 Slightdapple 👻🎃 on May 2, 2024 10:47:20 GMT -5
Justified. His kin did treat him poorly, and he made the decision to leave his Clan of his own autonomy.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 2, 2024 16:50:23 GMT -5
With 19 votes for Justified and 5 votes for Unjustified, Nightheart is Justified!
Next scenario: Stoneteller: In Moonrise, Stoneteller receives a sign from the Tribe of Endless Hunting that a silver cat would save them from Sharptooth. When Stormfur arrives, the Tribe is convinced that he is the silver cat, and Stoneteller refuses to allow him to leave until Sharptooth has been stopped. Was Stoneteller justified in preventing Stormfur from leaving?
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 2, 2024 18:35:22 GMT -5
Immediately I said unjustified when I read “Stoneteller” but after reading the scenario… id say he was justified.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on May 2, 2024 23:07:31 GMT -5
This is a hard one.
Keeping someone against their will is wrong, no matter what the reason. However, if Stormfur hadn't of stayed behind, the Tribe would've been obliterated. I understand Stoneteller's reasoning; he was fearful for his Tribe and their future.
I'm going to sit the vote out on this one. I think it's a mix of both.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 3, 2024 5:39:06 GMT -5
with nigthheart specifically the only thing he can ever be justified in is dying if we're lucky enough word 😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥 I'm so excited for the inevitable Nightheart death scene
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Post by Hollyfall on May 3, 2024 12:16:45 GMT -5
This is a difficult one! I think I'll have to go with justified since I guess you can argue the ends justify the means in this scenario. Keeping a cat against their will is wrong, but he wasn't doing it out of malicious intent.
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Post by Pixie on May 3, 2024 12:24:57 GMT -5
Saying justified bc utilitarianism lolol
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 3, 2024 16:43:27 GMT -5
With 8 votes for Justified and 9 votes for Unjustified, Stoneteller is Unjustified! This was a close one.
Next scenario: Storm: In The Sun Trail, Clear Sky’s mate, Storm, grows tired of Clear Sky’s aggressive methods of keeping his territory secure and of his overbearing coddling. She leaves Clear Sky’s camp while expecting his kits and moves to a Twoleg den, which later collapses and kills her and two of her kits. Was Storm justified in leaving Clear Sky’s camp?
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on May 4, 2024 0:28:36 GMT -5
Yes, yes, and yes. Storm had no reason to stay with someone as abusive as Clear Sky. Even if it ultimately ended in her death, she could've never known that would happen. She had every right to leave his ass behind.
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on May 4, 2024 1:02:23 GMT -5
With 8 votes for Justified and 9 votes for Unjustified, Stoneteller is Unjustified! This was a close one. Next scenario: Storm: In Thunder Rising, Clear Sky’s mate, Storm, grows tired of Clear Sky’s aggressive methods of keeping his territory secure and of his overbearing coddling. She leaves Clear Sky’s camp while expecting his kits and moves to a Twoleg den, which later collapses and kills her and two of her kits. Was Storm justified in leaving Clear Sky’s camp? I thought it was at the end of the Sun Trail? XD
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 4, 2024 8:48:34 GMT -5
With 8 votes for Justified and 9 votes for Unjustified, Stoneteller is Unjustified! This was a close one. Next scenario: Storm: In Thunder Rising, Clear Sky’s mate, Storm, grows tired of Clear Sky’s aggressive methods of keeping his territory secure and of his overbearing coddling. She leaves Clear Sky’s camp while expecting his kits and moves to a Twoleg den, which later collapses and kills her and two of her kits. Was Storm justified in leaving Clear Sky’s camp? I thought it was at the end of the Sun Trail? XD Yeah you're right oops
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 4, 2024 17:20:29 GMT -5
With 21 votes for Justified and 0 votes for Unjustified, Storm is Justified!
Next scenario: Sagewhisker: In Yellowfang’s Secret, Sagewhisker tells Yellowfang that she must be a medicine cat upon discovering Yellowfang’s ability to sense and feel others’ pain. Yellowfang initially resists due to wanting to be a warrior, but Sagewhisker points out that she cannot fight well while feeling the pain of others as well as her own. When she expresses fear that she will die before training an apprentice, Yellowfang finally agrees. Was Sagewhisker justified in pushing Yellowfang to become a medicine cat?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 4, 2024 17:25:02 GMT -5
Another toughie! While Sagewhisker's actions may have been good, even helping Yellowfang out in the long run, the way she went about it always came across as pretty manipulative to me.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 5, 2024 17:33:55 GMT -5
With 6 votes for Justified and 6 votes for Unjustified, Sagewhisker's judgment is Undecided.
Next scenario: Cinderpelt 2: In Twilight, Cinderpelt catches Leafpool in a forbidden meeting with Crowfeather. Leafpool says that Cinderpelt never wanted anything other than to be a medicine cat, and refuses to go home and end her meetings with Crowfeather. Cinderpelt attacks her in a rage. Was Cinderpelt justified in her response to Leafpool?
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on May 5, 2024 19:13:50 GMT -5
With 6 votes for Justified and 6 votes for Unjustified, Sagewhisker's judgment is Undecided. Next scenario: Cinderpelt 2: In Twilight, Cinderpelt catches Leafpool in a forbidden meeting with Crowfeather. Leafpool says that Cinderpelt never wanted anything other than to be a medicine cat, and refuses to go home and end her meetings with Crowfeather. Cinderpelt attacks her in a rage. Was Cinderpelt justified in her response to Leafpool? Now don't get me wrong, Leafpool said something terrible that really must've touched a nerve in her. But attacking someone, while understandable, is never justified.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 6, 2024 0:37:13 GMT -5
Justified.
I feel like this needs more context, considering she lunged at Leafpool for what she said, but Leafpool was able to just get away from her pretty easily. Leafpool quite literally accused her of being heartless and saying she couldn't possibly understand everything she was going through. Which to me, was such an ugly disrespectful thing to say to Cinderpelt of all cats. Especially because of who Leafpool's father is. Cinderpelt was more than too lenient with her at that point and gave her too many chances. And even afterward, Cinderpelt blamed herself for everything after Leafpool ran away. Cinderpelt knew her end was coming, but she was alright with accepting it, and letting Leafpool go. Imo she's too forgiving...
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Post by silverstarpenguin on May 6, 2024 0:58:02 GMT -5
I chose "unjustified" because I believe Cinderpelt cared for Leafpool more than her apprentice deserved and, instead of acting on instinct, should have warned her that there will be consequences or that she will tell Firestar. Although she was justified in showing Leafpool she was making a mistake, using her claws to make her feel sorry for it is not a good choice.
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Asexual
leafbush!
on thunder and shadow, yayaya
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Post by leafbush! on May 6, 2024 4:33:11 GMT -5
With 6 votes for Justified and 6 votes for Unjustified, Sagewhisker's judgment is Undecided. Next scenario: Cinderpelt 2: In Twilight, Cinderpelt catches Leafpool in a forbidden meeting with Crowfeather. Leafpool says that Cinderpelt never wanted anything other than to be a medicine cat, and refuses to go home and end her meetings with Crowfeather. Cinderpelt attacks her in a rage. Was Cinderpelt justified in her response to Leafpool? No, no she wasn't. There were many ways to handle this situation and she chose the wrong one. Attacking your own clanmate isn't very justified, is it? I get Leafpool was breaking both codes, (that being the warrior and medicine cat code) but still, that's no reason to attack a fellow ThunderClan member. Use that mouth of yours and start yapping instead, Cinderpelt!!
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 6, 2024 4:39:28 GMT -5
With 6 votes for Justified and 6 votes for Unjustified, Sagewhisker's judgment is Undecided. Next scenario: Cinderpelt 2: In Twilight, Cinderpelt catches Leafpool in a forbidden meeting with Crowfeather. Leafpool says that Cinderpelt never wanted anything other than to be a medicine cat, and refuses to go home and end her meetings with Crowfeather. Cinderpelt attacks her in a rage. Was Cinderpelt justified in her response to Leafpool? No, no she wasn't. There were many ways to handle this situation and she chose the wrong one. Attacking your own clanmate isn't very justified, is it? I get Leafpool was breaking both codes, (that being the warrior and medicine cat code) but still, that's no reason to attack a fellow ThunderClan member. Use that mouth of yours and start yapping instead, Cinderpelt!! But she did, like several times. The scene between them was the breaking point. Cinderpelt had tried to get Leafpool to focus on her duties, and noticed how much she was failing at them too. Even if she hadn't attacked Leafpool, I feel like she would have ran away regardless and abandoned her and the rest of her Clan.
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Asexual
leafbush!
on thunder and shadow, yayaya
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Post by leafbush! on May 6, 2024 5:29:53 GMT -5
No, no she wasn't. There were many ways to handle this situation and she chose the wrong one. Attacking your own clanmate isn't very justified, is it? I get Leafpool was breaking both codes, (that being the warrior and medicine cat code) but still, that's no reason to attack a fellow ThunderClan member. Use that mouth of yours and start yapping instead, Cinderpelt!! But she did, like several times. The scene between them was the breaking point. Cinderpelt had tried to get Leafpool to focus on her duties, and noticed how much she was failing at them too. Even if she hadn't attacked Leafpool, I feel like she would have ran away regardless and abandoned her and the rest of her Clan. Ok, you have a point there... Leafpool definitely would've ran away with Crowfeather. But she would've come back quicker, because shes so concerned about her medicine cat duties. Cinderpelt just gave her a reason to abandon them though. If it weren't for Midnight, she wouldn't have come back and Thunderclan would be... uhh... (insert picture of crowfood)
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