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Post by Known Troll Account on Aug 2, 2024 18:05:06 GMT -5
Hollypaw is annoying, but her actions were justified. Lionpaw kept breaking the warrior code and lying to his Clan.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Aug 3, 2024 19:30:51 GMT -5
I'd say justified. Lionpaw and Heatherpaw were breaking the code.
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Post by 🎃👻 Slightdapple 👻🎃 on Aug 5, 2024 21:10:37 GMT -5
Can’t vote in the poll anymore but I would say justified. It was never going to work out anyways.
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Post by Whispering Willow on Aug 6, 2024 10:09:10 GMT -5
Sorry this took so long. Expect updates to be less frequent than usual for a while. Job searching takes a lot of time and energy, on top of everything else. Also, sorry for subjecting you all to Bramblestar and Squirrelflight's petty squabbles lmao. With 12 votes for Justified and 1 vote for Unjustified, Hollypaw is Justified! Next scenario: Bramblestar 2: In Sky, Bramblestar finds out from Harestar—who made a comment about a vole (really a shrew) at the Gathering—and Nightheart that Squirrelflight took a secret patrol to WindClan to discuss the stolen vole. This angers Bramblestar, who, in retaliation, asks Nightheart to secretly get information from ShadowClan about Tigerstar’s plans through Sunbeam without telling Squirrelflight. Squirrelflight, however, finds out about this from Bayshine before Nightheart can carry out his orders, and the two mates argue. Was Bramblestar justified in trying to use Nightheart to get information from ShadowClan behind Squirrelflight’s back? Three scenes are provided below: Harestar's comment, Bramblestar's interactions with Nightheart, and Squirrelflight finding out about the secret mission. Harestar's comment: Bramblestar and Nightheart: Squirrelflight confronts Nightheart and Bramblestar:
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Post by kitters on Aug 6, 2024 19:54:59 GMT -5
The whole thing is so petty between both of them I genuinely don't understand what they love about each other and why they don't divorce. Bramblestqr clearly Joe bidening here and squirrelflights out here actively hating him
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 6, 2024 22:17:57 GMT -5
Just as Squirrelflight was wrong to go behind Bramblestar's back, he's wrong to go behind hers. The two need to either do some extensive couple therapy/communication, or break up for good.
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Post by Flamefrost on Aug 7, 2024 2:57:58 GMT -5
Justified
This one is tough. On one hand, Bramble and Squilf should break up as they bring out the worst in each other and frankly do not like each other. There clearly is no trust in the relationship. Let’s not forget that this starts with Squilf’s secret patrol, her lying to him, and him being humiliated at a Gathering. He has every right to be angry and not trust her.
That being said, I don’t have an issue with him doing a reconnaissance mission behind her back when said cat did the same thing for the entirety of his leadership. Squilf is a hypocrite for being mad lol which tbh is in character.
That, and Firestar got up to the same nonsense continuously too and we praised him for it, in fact Bramble himself was sent on one of them when Stormfur went to RiverClan. I feel like this is just a natural part of Clan life and I enjoy cats being nosy.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on Aug 7, 2024 3:24:36 GMT -5
Just as Squirrelflight was wrong to go behind Bramblestar's back, he's wrong to go behind hers. The two need to either do some extensive couple therapy/communication, or break up for good. i genuinely cannot understand why they got back together in the first place, it felt so out of the blue for me like after bramble's who super edition, the jessy thing, the sisters thing, the 10 gazillion arguments they've had, i do not understand what force is keeping them together actually i do !! it's the plot !! i don't see any chemistry between them at all and i think they'd both be better off on their own again but i don't think the writers will break them up again unfortunately
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 7, 2024 3:44:34 GMT -5
Just as Squirrelflight was wrong to go behind Bramblestar's back, he's wrong to go behind hers. The two need to either do some extensive couple therapy/communication, or break up for good. i genuinely cannot understand why they got back together in the first place, it felt so out of the blue for me like after bramble's who super edition, the jessy thing, the sisters thing, the 10 gazillion arguments they've had, i do not understand what force is keeping them together actually i do !! it's the plot !! i don't see any chemistry between them at all and i think they'd both be better off on their own again but i don't think the writers will break them up again unfortunately Tbh this also happens a lot irl. I know a few older couples that stay together, even though it's clear they need to break up (my grandparents). Younger couples do this too. I don't personally understand why. Maybe it's a trauma bond thing with Bramble and Squirrel. Idk at this point lol
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Post by Katanaheart on Aug 7, 2024 4:30:10 GMT -5
Bramblestar’s reconnaissance mission would have worked so well, too. Considering Tigerstar II would have looked like a hypocrite to turn Nightheart away after his own shenanigans with Dovewing.
But nope, Bayshine had to lick Squirrelflight’s paws and ruin everything about something that would have been super cool. (Extra drama to Nightheart unintentionally leading Sunbeam on and purposefully failing his final task.)
Plus Squirrelflight using their kin against Bramblestar again. (Sparkpelt, dear, lie to your father again so I can get away with being insubordinate again as I believe she was on this mission as well? And now Squirrelflight was using her grandson as another pawn to further her foolish goals.)
Fireheart never used Whitestorm or any of Bluestar’s former apprentices against Bluestar, herself. But Squirrelflight is more than ready to use her own children and grandchildren to buy her some time for her bad decision making.
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Post by asrise on Aug 7, 2024 7:33:05 GMT -5
Unjustified.
Just like Squirrelflight's decision, this is petty. But it's also stupid and unpopular.
What exactly makes Bramblestar think he can sneak two entire warriors into ShadowClan and talk to a bunch of cats there without seeming like they are snooping? Also, no. Tigerstar II would not let them do it because he would look like a hypocrite for not letting them. I don't think he of all cats cares about being seen as a hypocrite. Anyways, his plan would probably not work in the slightest because it's just way too obvious by nature, especially for a clan that is on edge as ShadowClan is at this point.
The fact that Bayshine refuses the plan is also pointing to it being unjustified. As I said in the last one, the clan isn't really on board with Bramblestar at all anymore, and this proves it. There's a reason why this scene exists, and it's to show that Squirrelflight has the backing from the clan to go behind Bramblestar's back but he does not have the same. So really, no one wants to do this except Nightheart, and that's because of his own feelings that Bramble is purposely playing into. (Yes, Bramblestar is also using his own kin to further his goals, just like Squirrelflight did.)
Why Squirrelflight and Bramblestar are even still together at this point is beyond me. I know they had to be together for the plot of TBC to even make a little bit of sense, but it makes it insincere when they are required to hate each other and argue constantly at the same time. They definitely are mutually weakening the clan by never agreeing on anything lol.
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Post by kitters on Aug 7, 2024 14:36:51 GMT -5
I mostly feel bad for all the clan cats who have to bear witness to their arguments every single time, like their fights HAVE to be public. The amount of times the clan has awkwardly sat and watched while they have yet another personal fight, only for them to notice and be embarrassed and say ",oh shit we shouldn't do this here" is TOOOO MUCH I just want one cat to tell them to get a room bc no one cares.
Its the equivalent of watching your parents fight in the kitchen as a child. Awkward upsetting and you wish they would do it while you were at school or asleep.
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Post by 𓆩♡𓆪Moonshine𓆩♡𓆪 on Aug 8, 2024 11:15:45 GMT -5
This was so hard to read through. From Bramblestar's questionable decision making to Squirrelflight making the whole of Thunderclan look stupid. It's just so damn sad that Bramblestar feels forced to scurry around everyone's backs like this because Squirrelflight can't deem him any respect. (Why does he need to get permission from her?) Regardless, I'm not sure if he was justified here; he just makes himself look petty. "I'm sorry, but there's not going to be a mission." I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were already leader miss deputy??? "Lol no, I don't care if you're leader, we're doing things my way now <3" Every time I read anything regarding Squirrelflight, I just get angrier.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Aug 9, 2024 17:42:34 GMT -5
I'll go with unjustified.
It just sounds so petty.
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Post by honeynectar on Aug 12, 2024 12:23:02 GMT -5
it would've been justified if he hadn't just done it to spite Squirrelflight..so unjustified
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Post by Whispering Willow on Aug 23, 2024 19:24:04 GMT -5
With 8 votes for Justified and 20 votes for Unjustified, Bramblestar is Unjustified! Sorry for the long wait. Because life is hectic and I can't promise a consistent schedule, and I noticed that there are more people joining the forums and some of them don't get to this until after the 48 hours are up, I'm going to leave these polls open for a week each until I can reach a consistent update schedule again. Another thing I wanted to quickly note, because I've seen it mentioned a few times in responses in the past: I know how the narrative presents some of these events, especially in particularly biased books like OC. The narrative likes to tell us what we should think sometimes and makes it clear how it wants us to respond. But the intention is for you guys to vote based on how you feel, not how the narrative tells you that you should feel. Next scenario (oh, look, it's this terrible awful good-for-nothing cat again): Onewhisker: In Onestar’s Confession, Onewhisker takes a kittypet, Smoke, as his first mate and has kits with her. One kit, Darkkit, survives. After deciding to take Whitetail as a mate instead, Onewhisker breaks up with Smoke and soon stops visiting her to hide his involvement with her. Once she has his kits, he begins to see her again, though he refuses to let her and her kits join WindClan. When she meets him for the last time, Smoke explains that her Twoleg has died and she and Darkkit have nowhere to go. Smoke asks him to at least take Darkkit to WindClan so that he can be a warrior, but Onewhisker refuses, and he ends up leaving the two of them behind with his Clan on the journey to the lake. Was Onewhisker justified in leaving his former mate and kit behind? Two scenes are provided below: the scene where Onewhisker breaks up with Smoke, and the scene where he rejects Darkkit. Breaking up with Smoke: Rejecting Darkkit:
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Post by 🎃👻 Slightdapple 👻🎃 on Aug 23, 2024 21:02:10 GMT -5
Unjustified. Like Violetpaw said in Shattered Sky he could’ve just pretended Darktail was an abandoned kit he found, if anything.
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Aug 23, 2024 21:03:25 GMT -5
Onewhisker is so unjustified here that it’s pretty irritating
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Aug 23, 2024 22:12:38 GMT -5
He's unjustified like all dead beat parents are.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Aug 24, 2024 19:23:33 GMT -5
Unjustified.
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Post by lightfur on Aug 26, 2024 9:34:03 GMT -5
Unjustified, I don't really need to explain why, and the narrative trying to justify it is just unnecessary.
Also, I have a few ideas for this myself that I wrote a few months back but never posted. Would anybody be interested in seeing them?
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Post by 𓆩♡𓆪Moonshine𓆩♡𓆪 on Aug 26, 2024 10:27:18 GMT -5
I can understand that Windclan is going through some seriously hard times; they can barely support themselves, are about to undergo a long journey to find a new home that will last who knows how long and the last thing they need is another mouth to feed.
But Onewhisker's rejection stems more from not wanting to take accountability than from concern...not exactly a justified perspective.
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Post by Whispering Willow on Aug 26, 2024 10:34:35 GMT -5
Unjustified, I don't really need to explain why, and the narrative trying to justify it is just unnecessary. Also, I have a few ideas for this myself that I wrote a few months back but never posted. Would anybody be interested in seeing them? You are more than welcome to offer up some ideas! Especially since I've done so many of these that my own ideas are becoming a bit scarce.
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Post by silverstarpenguin on Aug 26, 2024 11:23:24 GMT -5
There is no way Onewhisker could've been justified! There just isn't, because this was something moral, rather than a misunderstanding people can interpret.
Here's an idea I have: Was Feathertail justified in forgiving Leopardstar in A Shadow in RiverClan?
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maggotpaw
named my son maggotkit because i hate him
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Post by maggotpaw on Aug 26, 2024 11:28:01 GMT -5
Justified.
I think I'm sympathetic towards Onestar's decision when I contextualize it with the shame and insecurity towards his place in Clan society that dominates his character, the xenophobic nature of his culture, and hardship that was devastating WindClan at the time. While he had entirely selfish reasons for sending them away, I do believe his claim that he thought Smoke and Darkkit would be able to find a new twoleg owner (which they did), and that this would be a safer place for his half-kittypet child than WindClan at the time.
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Post by lightfur on Aug 26, 2024 14:01:48 GMT -5
Unjustified, I don't really need to explain why, and the narrative trying to justify it is just unnecessary. Also, I have a few ideas for this myself that I wrote a few months back but never posted. Would anybody be interested in seeing them? You are more than welcome to offer up some ideas! Especially since I've done so many of these that my own ideas are becoming a bit scarce. Here they are! - In Sky, were Nightheart and Sunbeam justified in getting prey in when they needed to go back to ShadowClan to save Rowankit? - Was Rowanstar justified in giving up his leadership in The Darkest Night? - Was Whitestorm justified in letting the Ashpaw and Fernpaw avenge their mother in A Dangerous Path? - Were Raggestar and Yellowfang In giving Lizardstripe Brokenkit despite the latter already being overwhelmed by her own kits? - In Onestar's Confession, was Smoke justified teaching Darkkit to hate the Clans? And here are two more I made right now. - Was Hawkheart justified in attacking and later killing Moonflower when the WindClan medicine den was raided in Bluestar's Prophecy? - Was Smoky justified in trying to keep Coriander's last wish of not letting Twolegs take their kits, even at the cost of their kits safety?
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duskflower
I can talk about these cats all day is a problem
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Post by duskflower on Sept 3, 2024 6:48:46 GMT -5
I know that the poll closed and this is like a week old, but I love those kinda threads so here i am
Overall for Onewhisker (like so many of his major life choices), he is sorta in the middle with a lean towards unjustified. I can understand the reason he gave Smoke- the clan was struggling as it was and with a kittypet in it and a sickly kit, there was barely enough strength to keep WindClan going and especially none for two outsiders. Secondly Onewhisker had already seen first hand the dangers and sadness that came with inviting kittypets to join wildlife and so its not far fetched to see why he wouldnt want the same mistake to happen again.
At the same time though, he brought this on himself. He had already been reprimanded for going to the twoleg place. yet for seasons he went back again and again and this was bound to happen. He was justified for leaving them behind generally (and it pains me to admit that) but was so wekll deserving of Smoke's vitriol and Darktails attacks in the future.
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Post by Whispering Willow on Sept 11, 2024 11:51:09 GMT -5
With 3 votes for Justified and 25 votes for Unjustified, Onewhisker is Unjustified! Next scenario: Yellowfang 2: In Forest of Secrets, after Brokentail helps Tigerclaw arrange an attack on ThunderClan, Yellowfang reveals to him that she is his mother. She gives him deathberries to take his final life, to prevent him from hurting more cats. When Fireheart finds them, she lies to him that she had been unable to save Brokentail. Was Yellowfang justified in killing Brokentail? The scene of Brokentail's death is provided below. Killing Brokentail:
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Post by silverstarpenguin on Sept 11, 2024 14:57:18 GMT -5
I'd say she truly was justified in killing Brokenstar, because she broke the warrior and medicine cat Codes for a Code-breaker who led kits into battle, one of the worst crimes possible. I think Yellowfang did the right thing, taking the life of a cat who could've killed many others only with his influece on the former ShadowClan rogues.
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Post by Haven on Sept 11, 2024 15:22:39 GMT -5
Justified
Yellowfang brought Brokentail into the world and did what she could so he could have a life unattached to her mistakes. She looked the other way, took the blame for her child, and still kept his secrets. She gave him plenty of chances to change and choose a better path but he repeatedly chose to break the code and hurt others.
I think, both morally, loyally, and and by the code she was justified in killing him.
She may be a a Medicine Cat, but to my knowledge there is nothing saying a medicine cat can't kill, just that they have to heal all equally. But she's also Thunderclan and Brokentail all but admitted that he would do what he could to destroy her clan. The Warrior Code says that they have to protect their clan with their life and that while they may have friendships in other clans, their loyalty has to remain with their clan.
Yellowfang killing Brokentail was remaining loyal to her clan (both her clans in fact) over her son, and it was effectively ending the last tie she had with Shadowclan.
I also think her killing him was a final kindness. As Brokentail says, he has nobody, and so he ends up dying with the only cat who still loves him by his side. Even though he's committed atrocities, she's the only cat who still truly cares for him. He wont have to live his life as a hated, blind outcast. And while she may have been protecting herself by not admitting she killed him, I think she also was protecting him a little to be able to say he died from his wounds and not having eaten poison that was offered to him.
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