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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 21, 2024 6:02:11 GMT -5
Unjustified. It’s like an amber alert.
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Post by ¯\_(ツ)_/¯IvyStar¯\_(ツ)_/¯ on May 21, 2024 8:38:34 GMT -5
Unjustified. Like the person above me said, it's an amber alert. He stole children from his ex-wife, and even though they were his children after they were part of the clans he had no right to take them. He ends up getting Turtle Tail killed in the process of trying to find her children. Definitely unjustified.
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Post by silverstarpenguin on May 21, 2024 10:59:04 GMT -5
I believe Tom was definetely unjustified. He had the right to meet his children, but I can see why Turtle Tail refused, after he mistreated her. Taking them to the Twolegplace, despite the risk of them getting run over or being separated by his Twolegs proved his incompetence, like it did later when he befriended One Eye and joined Clear Sky's group, which proved to be deadly for him.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 21, 2024 17:24:21 GMT -5
With 3 votes for Justified and 24 votes for Unjustified, Tom is Unjustified!
Next one might be a bit of a strange one but I'm in a hurry lmao
Brambleclaw: In The Forgotten Warrior, in order to protect her, Brambleclaw covers up for Hollyleaf when she is about to confess to murdering Ashfur. He tells the Clan that Ashfur attacked Hollyleaf, and he died when Hollyleaf defended herself. Was Brambleclaw justified in lying to protect Hollyleaf?
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 21, 2024 17:25:05 GMT -5
He was justified.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 22, 2024 17:11:20 GMT -5
With 17 votes for Justified and 2 votes for Unjustified, Brambleclaw is Justified!
Next scenario: Talltail: In Tallstar’s Revenge, Talltail decides to go on a journey partly because he wishes to hunt down Sparrow and get revenge for his father, Sandgorse’s death. He mistakenly believes that Sparrow deliberately left Sandgorse in the collapsing tunnel and saved himself, fueled in part by his unresolved issues with Sandgorse not respecting his desire to be a moor-runner, and only realizes otherwise when Sparrow is about to die. Was Talltail justified in seeking revenge based on his assumption?
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 23, 2024 6:32:17 GMT -5
The plot of the book is all about saying why he’s unjustified.
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 23, 2024 17:02:43 GMT -5
With 2 votes for Justified and 18 votes for Unjustified, Talltail is Unjustified!
Next scenario: Fireheart: In A Dangerous Path, RiverClan attacks ThunderClan to take back Sunningrocks. During this battle, Bluestar is cornered and taunted by Mistyfoot and Stonefur, and is unable to fight them because they are her kits and she has been pining for them. Fireheart, in a desperate bid to protect her, reveals Bluestar’s secret to them, telling them that she is their mother. This gets them to back off. Was Fireheart justified in revealing Bluestar’s secret to her kits?
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 23, 2024 17:31:58 GMT -5
In the long run, it was very bad, but I’d say at the time he was justified
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 25, 2024 16:58:01 GMT -5
With 15 votes for Justified and 4 votes for Unjustified, Fireheart is Justified!
Clear Sky is always terrible but he had to show up at some point: Clear Sky: In The First Battle, Clear Sky meets with Gray Wing, Tall Shadow, and Thunder at Fourtrees to discuss his borders. When Jackdaw’s Cry catches a bat after having been warned not to eat forest prey and after having been starved by Clear Sky’s group, it angers Clear Sky’s cats, and Clear Sky accuses Thunder of plotting a battle. He orders his cats to attack. Was Clear Sky justified in ordering the attack?
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on May 25, 2024 19:15:29 GMT -5
Clear Sky is never justified in any of the bullshit he does.
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on May 25, 2024 19:17:47 GMT -5
Clear Sky was not justified here, and I can’t even say I know where he’s coming from like in other scenarios.
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Post by Lizard 🦎 on May 25, 2024 19:46:21 GMT -5
Clear Sky is never justified in any of the bullshit he does. agreed !!
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Post by Whispering Willow on May 26, 2024 17:21:28 GMT -5
With 0 votes for Justified and 19 votes for Unjustified, Clear Sky is, of course, Unjustified!
Note: I know SqH was a book that made people angry and people are divided over Bramblestar and Squirrelflight's actions in this book, but please please please be nice to each other if there is discussion.
Bramblestar: In Squirrelflight’s Hope, Squirrelflight brings one of the Sisters, Sunrise, back to camp after she is badly injured. Furious with Squirrelflight for going behind his back, Bramblestar refuses to allow the medicine cats to treat her, telling them to instead travel to the Moonpool and ask StarClan for advice. Eventually, Leafpool manages to convince him to allow her to treat Sunrise. Was Bramblestar justified in refusing to help Sunrise?
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Post by Rainstorm1026 on May 26, 2024 19:05:46 GMT -5
No. Bramblestar is committing murder by inaction. Leafpool is a medicine cat and they are above borders anyhow.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on May 26, 2024 19:58:02 GMT -5
Justified. Squirrelflight put Bramblestar and ThunderClan in a tough position by bringing Sunrise into the camp.
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Post by kitters on May 26, 2024 20:39:33 GMT -5
I think it's one of the worst things he ever did. Next to forbidding squirrelflight to leave camp without his permission, just really weird and unacceptable if you think of warrior cats as "humans with a cat body".
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Post by kitters on May 26, 2024 20:40:07 GMT -5
No. Bramblestar is committing murder by inaction. Leafpool is a medicine cat and they are above borders anyhow. oh yeah I forget but didn't he threaten to hurt leafpool too?
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 26, 2024 23:23:08 GMT -5
No. Bramblestar is committing murder by inaction. Leafpool is a medicine cat and they are above borders anyhow. oh yeah I forget but didn't he threaten to hurt leafpool too? No? I don't believe he did? He told her not to do anything even though she wanted to. It was a morality situation is all.
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Post by Katanaheart on May 26, 2024 23:27:56 GMT -5
Justified. Squirrelflight put Bramblestar and ThunderClan in a tough position by bringing Sunrise into the camp. Bramblestar has been nothing but consistent with his behavior politically since Tigerstar II became leader and how he acts in relation to his nephew’s Clan. Squirrelflight is very lucky things didn’t spiral worse than what had occurred in canon. (Since Sunrise was still a political enemy, who’s group had deafened Strikestone, a warrior that had heavy kin importance to Bramblestar and his family in ShadowClan and kidnapped Leafstar and Squirrelflight. Those aren’t exactly offenses where we should be making nice with a very aggressive group that just wants to do with they want. The Sisters messed around when they attacked ShadowClan, they should have suffered their consequences) If Sunrise had died perhaps the Sisters would have left early and Moonlight would have realized she bit off more than she could chew with staying as long as she did.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 26, 2024 23:28:26 GMT -5
Justified. Bramblestar had no reason to want to aid cats, who not long ago had kidnapped Squirrelflight and Leafstar, and also injured said fellow leader as well. The Sisters were also hostile toward other Clans, trespassing and attacking ShadowClan cats.
Squirrelflight put Bramblestar in a position he shouldn't have had to be in in the first place, she was a deputy acting like an apprentice. Not only did she go behind his back with the Leafstar situation, but she does it yet again by deciding that members of the Sisters could be brought to the heart of their camp. And the clan was split on whether they should help or not.
It's perfectly logical for Bramblestar to want to compromise by seeking permission from StarClan first. It also doesn't help that later at a clan meeting, Tigertwo pretty much threatens the idea of war should they be aiding the Sisters. Squirrelflight's actions basically put the whole Clan in jeopardy, over things that could have been easily avoided.
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on May 27, 2024 0:14:14 GMT -5
Unjustified. A good leader would have been able to make the morally sound decision here instead of being, well, Bramblestar, but. There is a difference between Bramblestar and a good leader.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on May 27, 2024 1:16:46 GMT -5
I haven't read SqH but the way the scenario is phrased, says that Bramblestar refused to let any medicine cats treat Sunrise BECAUSE he was angry at Squirrelflight, right? If that is the case then I don't think it's justified. I feel like he should have put aside his marriage problems and allowed his medicine cats to heal her Obviously he had no obligation to use his own Clan's herbs to heal an outsider, but she almost died, didn't she? It seems weirdly unlike Bramblestar to leave a stranger dying in the middle of his camp and ban his medicine cats from healing her unless he had a motive right?? Am I wrong in saying that motive was his anger against Squirrelflight?
Idk. I see a lot of ppl saying this is justified but I just don't see it. And while I've also heard a lot of his actions in that book are very out of character, that still doesn't make the action justified
Yes it sounds like Squirrelflight put him in a bad position, but the scenario isn't asking if she was justified in bringing Sunrise there, it was if he was justified in letting her die in the middle of his camp
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Post by kitters on May 27, 2024 1:24:35 GMT -5
I think it was just unnecessarily cruel.. Squirrelflight suggested moving her out of the sun so she could be more comfortable and bramblestar says NO?? Another warrior even offered to carry her to the medicine den but he wanted her out in the sun where they could "see her."
I reread the scene and he doesn't threaten to hurt her, I was wrong on that. But he leaps in front of her to physically bar her from giving emergency treatment and squirrelflight wonders if be will fight her. The whole thing is just him desperately trying to hang on to power. He begs squirrelflight to listen to him and says if she continues to disobey she could "destroy the whole clan." Literally begging for full control. Begging for her to shut up and let this cat die so tigerstar would be happy. It's pathetic.
The sisters weren't even that bad as enemies.... maybe if they were bloodclan I could entertain this argument (maybe) but they had a time clock where they were guaranteed to leave peacefully. Also her friends were treated so horribly by thornclaw and the rest while they were begging them not to let their sister die. I truly don't understand how people think that's right.
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on May 27, 2024 7:55:53 GMT -5
It's also worth mentioning, I think, that Bramble says later in the same book:
"I didn’t want to hear about the Sisters. It made things too complicated. It was easier just to think about the Clans."
So like...you really almost let Sunrise slowly and painfully die because it was just ~easier~ and more convenient? Very cool I can see why he's treated as such a noble and amazing leader!
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 27, 2024 8:06:37 GMT -5
Unjustified. I couldn't care less about his beef with Squirrelflight or the Sisters or whatever. What he did in that moment was just incredibly cruel.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 27, 2024 8:39:40 GMT -5
I haven't read SqH but the way the scenario is phrased, says that Bramblestar refused to let any medicine cats treat Sunrise BECAUSE he was angry at Squirrelflight, right? If that is the case then I don't think it's justified. I feel like he should have put aside his marriage problems and allowed his medicine cats to heal her Obviously he had no obligation to use his own Clan's herbs to heal an outsider, but she almost died, didn't she? It seems weirdly unlike Bramblestar to leave a stranger dying in the middle of his camp and ban his medicine cats from healing her unless he had a motive right?? Am I wrong in saying that motive was his anger against Squirrelflight? Idk. I see a lot of ppl saying this is justified but I just don't see it. And while I've also heard a lot of his actions in that book are very out of character, that still doesn't make the action justified Yes it sounds like Squirrelflight put him in a bad position, but the scenario isn't asking if she was justified in bringing Sunrise there, it was if he was justified in letting her die in the middle of his camp The reasoning he doesn't allow the treatment at first is because of the Sister's hostility and their actions. Treating them meant helping the enemy. But not treating them made it a moral issue. So no, he wasn't doing it to punish Squirrelflight, but she is the one that put him and his clan in that situation in the first place. And on threatening bad terms with other clans by harboring hostile cats.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on May 27, 2024 8:41:11 GMT -5
It's also worth mentioning, I think, that Bramble says later in the same book: "I didn’t want to hear about the Sisters. It made things too complicated. It was easier just to think about the Clans." So like...you really almost let Sunrise slowly and painfully die because it was just ~easier~ and more convenient? Very cool I can see why he's treated as such a noble and amazing leader! Why should he prioritize the Sisters over his own clan?
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Asexual
#8B0000
Name Colour
🎃👻🦇Brambleheart🦇👻🎃
this halloween i am doing the spookiest thing of all- an exam!
Pronouns: She/her, they/them
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Post by 🎃👻🦇Brambleheart🦇👻🎃 on May 27, 2024 9:04:20 GMT -5
As much as I defend Bramblestar I say that it was unjustified. It's a medicine cat's JOB to heal cats no matter where their allegiances lie. Also, not long before that (iirc) the Sisters gave vital and lifesaving medical advice. Despite them being political enemies, and Squirrelflight being out of line as deputy of ThunderClan throughout the book, the medicine cat code states that those must be set aside.
That being said, Bramblestar got done so bad in this book.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on May 27, 2024 9:27:15 GMT -5
I haven't read SqH but the way the scenario is phrased, says that Bramblestar refused to let any medicine cats treat Sunrise BECAUSE he was angry at Squirrelflight, right? If that is the case then I don't think it's justified. I feel like he should have put aside his marriage problems and allowed his medicine cats to heal her Obviously he had no obligation to use his own Clan's herbs to heal an outsider, but she almost died, didn't she? It seems weirdly unlike Bramblestar to leave a stranger dying in the middle of his camp and ban his medicine cats from healing her unless he had a motive right?? Am I wrong in saying that motive was his anger against Squirrelflight? Idk. I see a lot of ppl saying this is justified but I just don't see it. And while I've also heard a lot of his actions in that book are very out of character, that still doesn't make the action justified Yes it sounds like Squirrelflight put him in a bad position, but the scenario isn't asking if she was justified in bringing Sunrise there, it was if he was justified in letting her die in the middle of his camp As background info, basically the Clans wanted their former lands back, putting SkyClan at risk of not having any territory at all (the only other one who tried to support Leafstar was actually Bramblestar), Squirrelflight sneaks out to explore what had been unused territory without his permission and convinces Leafstar to go with her, until they get captured by the Sisters. Since their leader, Moonlight, is expecting, Leafstar agrees to wait for her to give birth before moving her Clan again, but the other leaders—especially Tigerstar—want them gone as soon as possible. The longer the Sisters stay, the more tension there is regarding the topic, until eventually, Sunrise—one of the Sisters—gets injured. As for Squirrelflight, she defends the Sisters throughout the book, but in response to her sneaking out earlier, Bramblestar wanted her to run every decision by him first, including when she was deciding which cats to send on patrol. Now, as for the scene itself, here's the entire thing. Obviously feel free to make your own judgement!
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