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Post by ~Phoenixwing~ on Mar 26, 2024 23:57:11 GMT -5
It has always bothered me that Star Clan is happy to appoint cats like Tigerstar, Brokenstar, etc. They clearly have standards and are willing to reject cats, such as Nightpelt, even though he had the support of his clan; and the contradictory idea that Brokenstar still being alive prevented him from being made leader despite Pinestar and Sunstar being in the same situation, is.. eh.
I, personally, think it would make more sense for Starclan to have their chosen, but.. for the Dark Forest to also have the power to give lives. Granted, there's no real way to explain why the dark forest cats wouldn't be able to just abuse this, other than them only respecting strong cats so they might still have an 'honor among thieves' type of morality and only give it to those who have proven themselves worthy.
Honestly things were much simpler when Starclan was just the place where all cats went, and thus it wasn't a place of pure virtue like it is now, and you wouldn't have to question why a bunch of 'good' cats would give murderers lives, but hey.
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Mar 27, 2024 0:11:41 GMT -5
I see this all the time, but the Brokenstar and Pinestar thing isn't really comparable. Pinestar stepped down willingly with only one life left, but Brokenstar was lawfully Raggedstar's successor and was forced out with more than one life. At least in the early books, morality clearly wasn't something that mattered in a nine lives ceremony, so long as a certain part of the warrior code was upheld (though with StarClan being called out at the end of TBC, maybe now that'll actually change).
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Post by ~Phoenixwing~ on Mar 27, 2024 0:45:07 GMT -5
I figured someone would say something like that, but at the same time.. leaders really weren't just allowed to 'step down' either until this newest arc. Whether or not Pinestar abdicated willingly, it still shouldn't have been recognized by Starclan. If they were willing to bend their own rules by only giving Sunstar 8 lives for the good of Thunderclan, then surely they could have given Nightpelt 7 or so lives for the good of Shadowclan, which makes me think that their had to be some other sort of reason. Going by the 'old' logic where there was no dark forest, perhaps Tigerstar was just 'destined' to be their leader. Nowadays I'd just say that Nightpelt was considered too sickly and weak to lead, and was passed over. (honestly though, not like Shadow Clan had too many options left when half of their decent warriors were exiled). I do find the idea of the dark forest possibly seizing an opportunity to appoint a leader of their own in the face of inaction from starclan to be fun though. I do remember there being some sort of code of the clans or one of theory other spinoffy field guide books having a story where a shadow clan medicine cat had to pick a new leader themselves, star clan never sent a sign, they just picked one and it was fine so it does to me make star clan's actions all the more questionable in the face of both Nightpelt, and this more recent arc. I'd have to find the story or see if there's any other examples of leadership shenanigans, but.. yeah. Ultimately this series' idea of afterlives and leadership rules have just morphed beyond what they once were and it's easy to just point at inconsistencies and non-explanations because they just don't really fit together anymore. Edit; found it; warriors.fandom.com/wiki/Redscar#Code_of_the_ClansNot related to any cat being alive or not, but the story about Star clan not actually needing to be the one to choose a leader in the absense of both a leader and deputy. Which is why the whole drama of this arc is a little silly to me. Mothwing didn't even need a starclan connection for Mistystar to get her 9 lives in OotS, and clearly in CotC it's fine for a med cat to just.. pick a cat, so.. unless for example, Owlnose was really that bad, starclan still should have made him leader. (I know he refused the second time, but the first time star clan just.. didn't show up for him.) So which is it, does Starclan actively reject leaders for reasons, or ?? It's okay to be a bad leader, but not okay to be a 'bad' leader? |
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Post by ๐ฃ๐ฒ๐ท๐พ๐ฟ๐ฒ๐ฎ๐ต on Mar 27, 2024 0:58:06 GMT -5
I do remember there being some sort of code of the clans or one of theory other spinoffy field guide books having a story where a shadow clan medicine cat had to pick a new leader themselves, star clan never sent a sign, they just picked one and it was fine so it does to me make star clan's actions all the more questionable in the face of both Nightpelt, and this more recent arc. I know the one you're talking about, the one with Redscar and Flowerstar and the explanation for why deputies have to be chosen by moonhigh. Funnily enough, both cats appeared at Tigerstar's leader ceremony and the latter was also chosen via a sign, albeit a fake one manufactured by Tigerclaw and Jaggedtooth rather than by Littlecloud either getting or creating one like Redscar did. Sorry, just saw your edit! Though I'm pretty sure Mothwing is irrelevant when it comes to Mistystar being deputy, since she's not the one who's becoming leader. Mistystar had already been deputy long before Mothwing had even been born, and the Clan still had Willowshine at the time. As for the Owlnose thing, like I said, it was different in the early books and they got called out in TBC. After all the tyrants, I'd chalk it up to character development if you're looking for an in-universe explanation, but that'd probably be too generous. |
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