|
Post by Viperstrike on Mar 3, 2024 14:42:19 GMT -5
In the books, Yellowfang talks about Brokenstar as though he was purposefully born evil as punishment for breaking the code. And the way he’s written does seem to imply the Erins were going for that angle too, rather than him becoming evil due to circumstances (although I think Lizardstripe raising him didn’t help.)
Do you think this was just Yellowfang’s interpretation, or do you think it was really meant literally? And if so, why just Yellowfang? Sure, she broke the code, but no one else who broke the code got punished with evil children…
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 3, 2024 15:28:28 GMT -5
Actually, according to YS, this was why Brokenstar was born.
It just happened to be Yellowfang.
|
|
|
Post by Katanaheart on Mar 3, 2024 16:09:20 GMT -5
I do wonder if it was always going to be ShadowClan or if it was possible to come from RiverClan or WindClan. (I feel ThunderClan was spared due to Redstar allowing Birdflight and her kits to remain. At least as the origin point for the poison to spread.)
|
|
|
Post by Viperstrike on Mar 3, 2024 16:47:03 GMT -5
Actually, according to YS, this was why Brokenstar was born. It just happened to be Yellowfang. Thanks! I haven’t read YS in an eternity, so I forgot all about this. I’m assuming they’re talking about SkyClan here. But in that case, couldn’t the argument be made that SkyClan was driven out because of Clear Sky’s behavior? Now that I think about it, some of their behaviors mirror one another. Overly aggressive, stealing land, teaching kits to fight, casting out the weak… Only difference is Clear Sky is capable of being good when he wants to be. Brokenstar’s just pure evil. This is why I wish there was a more consistent and thought out structure for StarClan…
|
|
|
Post by valleylight on Mar 3, 2024 17:47:05 GMT -5
At the end of YS, when Yellowfang visits StarClan while Cinderpelt becomes a full medicine cat, both Sagewhisker and Molepelt reassure her that Brokenstar’s evil actions weren’t her fault. So while Yellowfang interpreted her kit as a punishment for her, I don’t think he was meant to be one, even before taking SkyClan into consideration.
As far back as TPB, there’s been a recurring theme that kits shouldn’t be defined, mistreated, or judged by their parentage/what their parents did. So it seems like it would be very thematically inconsistent (not to mention arbitrary) for the series to say Brokenkit was a punishment to Yellowfang. No kit should be thought of as a punishment for their parents imo, it would be horribly demoralizing
|
|
|
Post by User33 on Mar 3, 2024 20:38:48 GMT -5
I do wonder if it was always going to be ShadowClan or if it was possible to come from RiverClan or WindClan. (I feel ThunderClan was spared due to Redstar allowing Birdflight and her kits to remain. At least as the origin point for the poison to spread.) Headcanon stuff: StarClan wouldn't allow Brokenstar to be born in WindClan nor RiverClan. But for very different reasons. WindClan was particularly hostile to SkyClan and were arguably the most enthusiastic to drive off SkyClan despite Redstar being the first to actually suggest SkyClan to leave. "At the foot of the rock, Larkwing, the WindClan medicine cat, stood up.“Swiftstar,” she called, “as your medicine cat, I can tell you that StarClan won’t be pleased if the rest of us drive out SkyClan. There have always been five Clans in the forest.” Swiftstar looked down at her with a hint of impatience in his eyes. “Larkwing, you say you know the will of StarClan, but can you tell me why the moon is still shining? If StarClan didn’t agree that SkyClan should leave the forest, they would send clouds to cover the sky.” Larkwing shook her head and sat down again, looking troubled." - Cloudstar's Journey PDF pg 198 “SkyClan doesn’t belong here,” hissed a WindClan silver tabby in the middle of the hollow. “Let’s drive them out now.” - Cloudstar's Journey PDF pg 200 Fast forward to Yellowfang's Secret where Brokenstar is born and then to the prophecies begins arc and look who lost their home: WindClan. RiverClan got off easy because Birchstar genuinely wanted to help but couldn't. Redstar took SkyClan kits which in a symbolic sort of way(?) can be seen as a parallel scene where Brokenstar steals ThunderClan kits.
|
|
#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
|
Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Mar 3, 2024 20:50:26 GMT -5
I do wonder if it was always going to be ShadowClan or if it was possible to come from RiverClan or WindClan. (I feel ThunderClan was spared due to Redstar allowing Birdflight and her kits to remain. At least as the origin point for the poison to spread.) Headcanon stuff: StarClan wouldn't allow Brokenstar to be born in WindClan nor RiverClan. But for very different reasons. WindClan was particularly hostile to SkyClan and were arguably the most enthusiastic to drive off SkyClan despite Redstar being the first to actually suggest SkyClan to leave. This is what I always thought as well. And even if it wasn't intentional, it's still incredibly interesting nonetheless, how everything all lines up! ShadowClan also had the largest territory even back then—territory which SkyClan could've possibly benefitted from—and even Firestar notes that Dawnstar had probably ruled over a ShadowClan which had been different from the one he was familiar with. So, then, enter Brokenstar, who would of course go on to expand his Clan's territory, but at the cost of many innocent lives and the banishment of others, including ShadowClan's own elders.
|
|
|
Post by jayfeather1234 on Mar 6, 2024 20:57:04 GMT -5
Actually, according to YS, this was why Brokenstar was born. It just happened to be Yellowfang. It is curious that Molepelt never appears after ''Yellowfang's Secret''. I headcanon that his "prophecy" was just a sense of guilt for Skyclan that got out of control.
|
|
|
Post by seantheskyhunter on Mar 8, 2024 5:19:59 GMT -5
No cause thats like saying God allowed a person to be born just to ruin the lives of other sinners, and Its f*cked up
|
|
|
Post by Flamefrost on Mar 8, 2024 7:11:53 GMT -5
I do wonder if it was always going to be ShadowClan or if it was possible to come from RiverClan or WindClan. (I feel ThunderClan was spared due to Redstar allowing Birdflight and her kits to remain. At least as the origin point for the poison to spread.) Headcanon stuff: StarClan wouldn't allow Brokenstar to be born in WindClan nor RiverClan. But for very different reasons. WindClan was particularly hostile to SkyClan and were arguably the most enthusiastic to drive off SkyClan despite Redstar being the first to actually suggest SkyClan to leave. "At the foot of the rock, Larkwing, the WindClan medicine cat, stood up.“Swiftstar,” she called, “as your medicine cat, I can tell you that StarClan won’t be pleased if the rest of us drive out SkyClan. There have always been five Clans in the forest.” Swiftstar looked down at her with a hint of impatience in his eyes. “Larkwing, you say you know the will of StarClan, but can you tell me why the moon is still shining? If StarClan didn’t agree that SkyClan should leave the forest, they would send clouds to cover the sky.” Larkwing shook her head and sat down again, looking troubled." - Cloudstar's Journey PDF pg 198 “SkyClan doesn’t belong here,” hissed a WindClan silver tabby in the middle of the hollow. “Let’s drive them out now.” - Cloudstar's Journey PDF pg 200 Fast forward to Yellowfang's Secret where Brokenstar is born and then to the prophecies begins arc and look who lost their home: WindClan. RiverClan got off easy because Birchstar genuinely wanted to help but couldn't. Redstar took SkyClan kits which in a symbolic sort of way(?) can be seen as a parallel scene where Brokenstar steals ThunderClan kits. I love this. I honestly never saw how Brokenstar was a fitting punishment until this explanation! I guess you could also draw parallels to old RiverClan being the most helpful, and then having Crookedstar agree to share hunting rights with Brokenstar.
|
|