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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Feb 19, 2024 21:26:07 GMT -5
I wonder if Gray Wing is actually the Angel that he is depicted as by many in the fandom.
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Post by کیوان on Feb 19, 2024 21:58:22 GMT -5
He may be my favorite WC character of all time, but everyone has a dark side, and Gray Wing is no different. Much of the fandom's problem is refusing to recognize that their all-time favorite is flawed (looking at you, mainstream Squish following).
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on Feb 19, 2024 22:12:48 GMT -5
well he's better than skystar!
this isn't impressive. but he's better than skystar!!! <- i voted no and I hate him
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Post by iceheart on Feb 19, 2024 22:31:08 GMT -5
Not really, and this is coming from a former Gray Wing lover.
The excuses he makes for Clear Sky are borderline victim blaming as the books go on. I understand that Clear Sky is his brother, but bro is a literal war criminal, and Gray Wing keeps excusing him. Also, the fact that he doesn't consider the kits he raised to be his "real" children (which is why he wanted kits so bad with Slate) gives me a really bad taste in my mouth. ALongside his general disdain for Bumble and how he treated her, the way he sees "rogues and loners" as untrustworthy because they weren't parts of their groups (despite these cats literally taking territory that wasn't theirs, and, for a lack of better word, effectively colonizing them), and shunning cats who don't live like he does. The way he treated Turtle Tail until Storm died, and even after. How can he be THAT oblivious?
And, also... character wise, he's boring. I hate to say it, but he really is boring. There's not one unique personality trait that I can attribute to him at all.
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Post by tollfarok on Feb 20, 2024 8:29:46 GMT -5
iceheart you said everything I wanted to say, word for word. But I'd like to add that it pissed me off how he treated Jagged Peak (yes, he took him in, but he barely let him do anything on his own). I was so glad when Holly came and stood up for Jagged Peak
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 20, 2024 9:43:20 GMT -5
He may be my favorite WC character of all time, but everyone has a dark side, and Gray Wing is no different. Much of the fandom's problem is refusing to recognize that their all-time favorite is flawed (looking at you, mainstream Squish following). If they don't have a flaw, then they're boring. If they do have a flaw, then they're either problematic or we're just gonna pretend they don't have one.
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Ambersky
"You'll never make me ashamed or who I am or what I look like." -Crookedjaw to Rainflower
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Post by Ambersky on Feb 21, 2024 15:19:24 GMT -5
Like most characters, he’s done both good and bad things. He raised Thunder when Clear Sky abandoned him, fostered Turtle Tail’s kits, gave up his prey to Milkweed and her kits, and generally tried to seek solutions that didn’t involve violence. But he also was overprotective of Jagged Peak; accidentally killed Fox in battle; dismissed Bumble’s DV situation, saying he’s ‘seen worse scratches’, and continuously excused Clear Sky’s actions.
Gray Wing, just like most characters in the series, is a flawed character. There isn’t a single cat in the series that hasn’t hurt another, whether intentionally or unintentionally. But that’s usually what makes them so interesting and dynamic. Whether they’re enjoyable to read about is entirely subjective.
Was he an Angel, though? Personally, I think that title goes to River Ripple. My laid-back and isolationist boy was truly the most non-problematic character in DOTC.
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Post by Jaysnow on Feb 21, 2024 15:20:09 GMT -5
Gray Wing isn't a perfect guy/angel/saint, but he's still a very good guy. His biggest flaw is still....defending his brother, which is honestly understandable. Yes, his brother was a huge asshole, but who could blame him for wanting to defend him?
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Post by Wolfyy- on Feb 22, 2024 14:20:02 GMT -5
Gray Wing isn't a perfect guy/angel/saint, but he's still a very good guy. His biggest flaw is still....defending his brother, which is honestly understandable. Yes, his brother was a huge asshole, but who could blame him for wanting to defend him? I agree wholeheartedly.
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Post by dahliadove - #1 nightpelt fan on Feb 23, 2024 23:48:21 GMT -5
Pretty much what everyone else said sums up what I think about this.
He's nowhere near a good person, and I'm glad the fandom is coming around to the realisation that he's never been a good person. I hated the whole opinion that he was an angel when he clearly wasn't. And those people that made him out to seem like this innocent little guy. No, he's not "just a cute little cinnamon roll needs to be protected can do no harm" he constantly defended his war criminal murderer brother, was a massive xenophobe and just seemed nasty to be around in general.
I won't deny that he's done good things in his life, but he's also done a whole lot of bad.
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Pansexual
Medicine cat
Nettle
woof woof
Pronouns: She/her, They/them.
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Post by Nettle on Feb 23, 2024 23:51:22 GMT -5
Love him, but he isn't an angel as depicted by fandom.
One of the things I hated about him was excusing Clear Sky so much. If he hadn't, maybe so many cats wouldn't have died.
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#add8e6
Name Colour
*Ravenpaw*
Warrior Fanatic
*reads books in a corner*
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Post by *Ravenpaw* on Feb 24, 2024 19:46:39 GMT -5
He may have done some good, but I didn't think he was that great of a cat. I got sick of him defending Clear Sky and the way he and some other characters treated outsiders.
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Post by ❅Maplefrost❅ on Feb 25, 2024 2:35:09 GMT -5
Am I missing something? Because from what I've seen he pretty much acted normal from what I've seen with normal clan cat standards. There were much worse cats in DotC (like much worse) even if you don't count Clear Sky. Not saying he's a complete saint, a lot of characters aren't, that's normal. But to say he's not a "great person" seems a bit harsh? Is it not? Considering how extreme the circumstances were for the first settlers, I don't really blame him for a lot of his actions.
And of course, he's going to want to take care of his family, even when he has to constantly deal with the conflict that follows. They're literally all he had at the time when he left the mountains. His dismissiveness to Bumble was no different from most of the other cats that did the same at the time, because she was a kittypet. Him wanting to give Clear Sky another chance because this wasn't the cat he grew up with, makes sense. Him wanting to take care of Thunder and Jagged Peak after they were abandoned and hurt is logical, especially after his little sister starved to death in the mountains. I also don't see how him not returning Turtle Tail's feelings because he was into Storm is suddenly a crime either??
Things that people seem to be pointing out, at least to me, aren't things that are exclusive to Gray Wing's character, because others do it, or aren't even that bad in general. I never got the impression he had a "dark" side, when all he really gave was "normal" by cat standards, just he's a protagonist. If people expect him to be a saint, or down right "perfect", I don't think those were realistic standards to have in the first place. And for people that think pretty much the same, but the other way around, I also find that confusing too. But he's not some jerkface that kicks sand in people's faces or something. Especially when there's cats like Clear Sky, Slash, Tom, One Eye, Star Flower, and Quick Water, in the same series.
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Post by mintyfang1840 on Feb 25, 2024 6:16:58 GMT -5
He’s certainly not a perfect saint who can’t do anything wrong. He is flawed just like everyone else. But I think he’s still a good person. He was overprotective towards his families sometimes, but learned to let go and trust his brother/children. He kept defending Clear Sky, but that’s understandable. Clear Sky was his brother, of course he would want to believe him and give him second chance. And it’s not like he stood there and did nothing. He stood up against Clear Sky when his actions went too far. He made mistakes and made wrong decisions, which other normal people do as well. And he has done lots of good actions, too.
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Post by Midnightcacoon loves Sunbeam on Feb 25, 2024 10:26:10 GMT -5
Absolutely not in my opinion. While he's not on the levels of Clear Sky that's not really a high bar set. A good person doesn't think about his grudge against a women while she's actively seeking refugee from being abused(From the book Thunder Rising, I forget which chapter atm). A good person wouldn't think said women's life was of less value due to the fact she is a kittypet(Thunder Rising,Chapter 26, Gray Wing tells Tall Shadow she said exactly the right thing in response to saying they shouldn't get worked up about Bumble's death because she's a kittypet) Even later on in TBS he tells Jagged Stone (You gonna have your wife win every battle for you or something) when his wife choose to stand up for her mate after Gray Wing told him he hoped he never had any kids. This personally just added to my weariness of him, because like, why couldn't she stand up for her mate when you were saying such awful things? www.tumblr.com/bonefall/711490126729166848/get-ready-for-tall-shadows-rejection-wherein (Here is a great post for references on the Bumble exile scene, cuz I don't have a lot of time rn to grab them) Overall the issue I have with him is larger than just his character flaws, its that his xenophobic views are never challenged, its a horrible message to send to the reader.
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 25, 2024 11:27:02 GMT -5
Thanks, Meryl! Okay, in all seriousness, this more or less sums up my thoughts on Gray Wing. I never really cared for him that much, honestly, and I think this is probably why. His annoying obliviousness, his dismissal of Bumble... When all these little things pile up together, it doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture. It'd be one thing if things like his xenophobia were treated as character flaws, but his views (and by extension, that of the others') are barely challenged, if at all. He's not the worst cat ever, but I wouldn't say he's the best. And sure, these traits aren't exactly exclusive to him, either! But to that I say... so what? So what if they aren't exclusive to him? That doesn't change the fact that these traits are still present in his character and it doesn't make any of the others who share these same traits look better, either. There's a reason why I only mostly love DotC for the plot.
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Post by Viperstrike on Feb 25, 2024 15:00:57 GMT -5
He’s a good person with bad traits. Like every character in this series.
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Post by Purdyisbestboi on Feb 26, 2024 21:16:22 GMT -5
I also remember that he was aggressive to his adopted kits at one point when he was having trouble breathing once. I remember he accidentally hurt owl eyes at one point, even if he apologized. He also argued with turtle tail a lot about the kits and felt extremely shocked when sparrow fur wanted to learn about her real father.
Sure, Tom is a horrible person but she’s a kit. And even though she gets attacked by one eye for this, it’s not like gray wing would have predicted that.
Honestly, he’s such a miserable guy throughout all of the series and it baffles me that he is shown as such a great guy who’s happy all the time by the Warrior cats website and most of the fandom.
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