Ambersky
"You'll never make me ashamed or who I am or what I look like." -Crookedjaw to Rainflower
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Post by Ambersky on Feb 8, 2024 16:56:33 GMT -5
Since we know that morally ambiguous characters like Clear Sky, Blackstar, Leopardstar, Mudclaw, Onestar, Hollyleaf, and Needletail made it to StarClan, do you think Juniperclaw deserved the same? Or do you think attempting to poison SkyClan made him beyond redemption and thus deserving of the Dark Forest?
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#a3c5e6
Name Colour
𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵
Warrior Fanatic
All hail me, the flower-flushing queen of Prague
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Post by 𝓣𝓲𝓷𝓾𝓿𝓲𝓮𝓵 on Feb 8, 2024 17:00:29 GMT -5
At the time of his death, no. Doing one good deed shouldn't automatically negate the fact that he tried to poison an entire Clan, good intentions or not.
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Post by 「Wιитεяичgнт」 on Feb 8, 2024 17:03:10 GMT -5
YES! Absolutely! 100%% The poor guy. There are guys who've done just as bad and did minimal good before dying to redeem themselves and made it to StC! Yes, he tried to poison a clan but he failed and then saved Shadowkit and Violetshine, sacrificing himself for their lives and still went to the DF! If I remember right, wasn't Violet pregnant at the time too? If so, He also saved the lives of unborn kits! future SkyClan cats, the clan he tried to murder!! How does that not redeem his failed crime???
I've always thought him going to the DF was Stupid when cats like Ashfur were let in to StC. why? because he "loved too much??" so dumb...
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Post by Saint Ambrosef on Feb 8, 2024 17:12:30 GMT -5
Nobody is beyond redemption, if their regret is genuine and desire to atone authentic.
The question is if Juniperclaw’s “atonement” was for the right reasons. Was it because he independently desired to do right by others, or because he was scared of kitty hell?
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Post by deerspirit on Feb 8, 2024 17:15:03 GMT -5
Yes he should have gone to StarClan no question. I believe he was originally supposed to go to StarClan but the editors wanted a foil for Ashfur with a cat sent to the opposite wrong afterlife. I’m sure he’s going to end up a full member of StarClan since there’s been a whole outcry of interest of a cat sent to the Dark Forest earning a place in StarClan. I’m pretty sure Curlfeather and maybe Berryheart will be the next border guardians. Anyway I’m 99 percent certain he’s going to become a full time StarClan member.
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Post by iceheart on Feb 8, 2024 17:49:32 GMT -5
By far Needletail was worse than him and she gets to fight for the honor of StarClan despite being one of the major reasons behind her own Clan's downfall and Juniperclaw rots in cat hell for of course, doing something terrible, but I guess him saving Tigerheart's son who knowingly throws himself into a river killing him (Juniperclaw), nearly killing himself, and nearly killing Violetshine means nothing - but Needletail sacrificing herself for Violetshine, who Needletail knowingly pulled into all of this madness - makes what she did okay. You can't make this up if you tried.
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Non-binary
flipwish
when do we get more hairless warrior cats
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Post by flipwish on Feb 8, 2024 18:52:47 GMT -5
Someone who's better at actual serious analysis and wording than I am could definitely articulate my issues with the DF in general more than I can, but in short: yea and also the DF system as a whole is messed up inherently beyond him
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Post by Jayie on Feb 8, 2024 21:24:22 GMT -5
No, not at all. He put poisoned prey in a Clan’s fresh-kill pile with no regard for who might eat it. He easily could have killed a kit or elder with that stunt, it’s only luck a stronger cat ate it and survived. That’s a serious disregard for life, and definitely DF-worthy.
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Post by ✲ριкαƒυєу✲ on Feb 8, 2024 21:51:02 GMT -5
So before he redeemed himself? Dark Forest most definitely. He did a horrid thing and could've killed someone innocent.
After in TBC? I feel like he genuinely was remorseful and he did his best to attone. If pos cats like Clear Sky can get into StarClan, idk why he can't.
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Aroace
#ffa100
Name Colour
𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑
Villain Enjoyer
Taking a break from the forums because my cat died. Will probably be back mid to late October.
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Post by 𝕱𝖑𝖚𝖙𝖙𝖊𝖗𝖋𝖆𝖑𝖑 on Feb 9, 2024 6:26:36 GMT -5
Not before TBC.
Juniperclaw's stunt of poisoning SkyClan's fresh-kill pile could've easily killed multiple cats if not discovered as soon as it was. Yes, he sacrificed himself to save Shadowkit and a pregnant Violeshine but his final words were still not an apology to SkyClan, the Clan he endangered, but rather his leader Tigerstar II. It wasn't "Tell SkyClan I'm sorry." but instead "Tell Tigerstar I'm sorry."
After TBC, I agree that he should've been allowed in at this point. Although his border guardian role is pretty neat. He had time to reflect in the Dark Forest and I really liked his longer conversation with his cousin Shadowsight about blame and his worth.
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Post by Sphinxwhisker on Feb 9, 2024 18:03:55 GMT -5
Hmmm. Complicated question.
by the in-universe logic, I’d say sure. If Clear Sky’s garbage ass is considered worthy of entering into Starclan. Than Juniperclaw should be a cinch to justify.
My personal answer…. No, neither before or after the TBC. Him poisoning SkyClan’ Food pile is by definition an act of premeditated murder or attempted manslaughter. And pretty indicative there really wasn’t any restrictions on what he’d consider suitable to force out Skyclan and secure more territory for ShadowClan. Regardless of whom would have gotten hurt and/or killed in the process. And his final testimony being a apology to Tigerstar instead of Leafstar(whom he had wronged), makes him appear he was more regretful that he failed Tigerstar by not securing them more land, and that he’d potentially injured ShadowClans reputation, rather than any genuine remorse for his crime.
and during/after TBC?. Him aiding the Clans against Ashfur felt more out of personal desire to not be under Ashfur reign/control, or an optimistic attempt to obtain freedom from the consequences of enduring the all-consuming void of the Dark Forest. Not from him feeling genuine remorse or repentance for the atrocities he committed.
Now, I don’t believe anyone is irredeemable. And it’s kind of difficult to put a definitive label on his actions, on whether they were out of self-interest to escape his prison, or a place of genuine atonement. However, personally I didn’t find any of his performance in TBC particularly convincing that he was attempting to atone for his mistakes. And the fact it’s after he’s been condemned and suffered the consequences. Makes it much harder to convince that he’s not just trying to get out of his punishment.
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